Discussion in 'Gameplay General' started by Liam, Aug 6, 2016.
I'd put the scaling back to like 80%. So it'd be 44% total.
She can still kinda do that though
An issue this brings is that it can kinda be hard to tell sometimes if the opponent is exactly up against the wall. It's just weird to me that the properties of the attacks change like that. I had an instance where I was about half screen away from someone near the corner and I hit them with an M Shadow. It seemed like they weren't exactly up against the corner so I thought I would be able to jump forward and confirm off the M shadow but it turned out they were actually totally in the corner. Just looking at this image, I'd have a tough time telling you if the opponent was actually totally in the corner or just a few pixels off.
I don't really know about this. SSJ on hit really just resets the situation to neutral. Which is awesome for a reversal, but if you're trying to get in on a zoning character, you don't really want to do that.
To be honest the only thing I've done in the beta in training mode is try and see if there's a way to combo from Robo's magnet into Peacock's tag. (There isn't, if you're wondering.) I haven't messed with the changes to Peacock at all. I'll try to take a look at it tonight. Peacock's air throw has always been weird though. There's situations where if they're too close to the ground you can't get anything after the throw.
Why not instead of SSJ, give M Brass the projectile soak properties? It would give you the choice of using M Brass to eat mindless projectile patterns that are super hard to deal with otherwise, but you can use H Brass for a riskier but more rewarding zoning punish.
I'm all for testing m brass over h brass, but again, it's not my decision
Is the Shun Goku Shio going to remain as a mostly 'joke' super or should we be considering it a legitimate tool? If it's supposed to be fully legit, the damage still feels kinda low given the resources you have to generate first.
I think being able to combo into it at all should be considered lucky. I would leave it at that
I agree with warped.
ROBO PLAYERS how's the patch feeling for ya guys?!?!
As for the airball changes. It really feels in the realm of filia and its not as powerful as i would've thought due to pbgc and chicken blocking existing. any other filia players have detailed input on it?
Raging Demon seems about as fine as Peacock's lvl 3. The reason to use it is finishing a match in style.
Also, if it's going to be a legitimate tool, then it ought to be on the movelist. Leaving it hidden is cute for a joke move, but not if it's not supposed to be a joke anymore.
Mike said M Brass being the one that goes through beam felt weird because it has less armor than H Brass. That said I agree with you. Seems like about the right risk/reward for that matchup: you don't instantly get in but you move them closer to the corner.
Someone please enlighten me if I'm not the first one to ask, but has anyone requested a show for true reversals yet? I know we get a green flash for pbgc, but I always wonder if I get true reversals a lot of the time.
Is the counterhit indicator not close enough?
Listen, I get it, "oh you got hit so you must have not hit reversal" That aside, I was just curious about it. I'd like to know if I'm hitting my 3f reversal window in an ever speedier game, not just being sloppy on my reversals and hitting someone because they messed up their meaty.
Poring over the patch notes I don't see anything that would lead anyone to believe that her air throw was changed, though.
I mean there's this but it only mentions when Peacock is in the tumble animation, not her throw cooldown.
All this noted, I did double check for completeness. I've noticed nothing different for my different airthrow conversions vs Peacock (due to the tumble fall hitbox change), heavyweights, tall characters, small characters, and Big Band at normal jump and superjump height each.
Robo feels super fun in the beta, I love all the buffs she got and the nerfs to her damage feel fair since her zoning is so much better now. I would be okay if robo lost her DJC but I can understand why some people might be against it.
peanuts you LITERALLY MADE MONEY OFF OF ME because m brass and h brass have the same amount of armor wtf
(and yes i just tested they both have 2 hits)
re: double level 5
its not about her level 5 damage compared to other chars, its about the fact that double went from a char where "save for 5 bars of meter and a character is going to die no matter what" to "what do I spend meter on?". Of course most people are not gonna be upset that she can't tod in 3v2 off of throw anymore, but for a character who is supposed to be a good anchor she should at least be able to kill off c.lk in 3v3 if she has full bar imo. The utility of monster as a solo character has been SIGNIFICANTLY reduced (which again I wouldn't say is unfair because that super was really strong), which basically means what you get as double if you choose to play her anchor and trade having her assist mixups for getting to spend meter is...2 and a half catheads.
re: filia airball change
I like it a lot. I maintain for the most part that it doesn't really affect filia with an assist that much, but it means that M airballl is a much stronger approach tool and it lets filia keep up pressure solo easier. I don't think its a BROKEN change (yet, we'll see what people do with it), its not as good as it might appear at first glance, but its very nice. Im interested to see what people keep finding with it.
When's Parasoul getting matchup-specific buffs against headless Fortune?
E: m brass beating h beam "makes no sense", but h brass beating it totally does?.?
This has long not been about logic anymore, so you may as well do whatever
Can we make Fukuas shadows be considered part of her body instead of a projectile since they can be hit by normals? I can't think of any projectile that you can jab to beat.
Fixed that for you
Throne, Egret Charge
those doesnt work as normal projectiles tho
They work the same as clone, surely? Clone passes through other projectiles too.
It's possible to make the Eliza's lvl 3 conversion easier mindscreen on some chars like Cerebella?
not necessarily. you cant deflect those but you can deflect shadow
It's beta, so let's just try it and see how people like it. Just a suggestion.
Yeah, they both have 2 hits. I can confirm this. H Brass goes a bit further and, of course, has different properties, but they both have 2 armor. It's A Train where for some reason M only has 1 armor and H has 2 armor.
I actually think this would be great. Level 3's damage did get nerfed and I can only assume it's due to it's high damage + combo utility, but it's actually finicky to combo off of it on certain characters like Double/Big Band/Bella and probably some others I forget. If comboing off of it is a big deal, it'd be super neat if it was a bit easier than it currently is, corner aside.
Well I'm not giving the money back if that's what you're getting at.
I didn't say M doing it felt weird cuz it had less armor, or maybe I did and I'm dumb, but I did say M doing it felt weird because it's not H.
Not that H doesn't feel weird, but M feels more weird.
...all this time I thought M Train had 2 and H Train had 3 because that's what I'd wanted to do. Maybe I should fix THAT.
Years ago, when the head became invincible to projectiles during Fortune's hitstun and the head became unable to hit Egret Charge.
You just mean in terms of not being reflectable?
There aren't any changes. People have requested things for her airthrow, but there are not any gameplay changes for her.
Yes, but that's work we can leave until after testing changes, and also probably requires a tutorial section... >.<
3 hits of armor plus H Train's speed? Godlike E-Brakes
Of course that's how you feel, that's how you play her lmfao (But I really respect you for trying to play her more keepaway than other Robos in retail)
But in all seriousness, after finally sitting down and taking the time to dissect Robo a bit in the beta, I can formulate my thoughts about the current changes.
Mine: The change on the property that it gives the opponent from the explosion when Robo gets hit is really good! Once again, it's hard to balance this special, but if there was a way to do it, I think this is it. Many games where I stopped the opponent's approach with it, and I still got hit, if felt just right that I spent a resource to reset the situation. (Also, dashing up and directly canceling into Mine sets it below Robo, and not infront of her.)
Double air beams: Her keepaway got a lot better... probably a little too much when coupled with the new speed, recovery, and damage of her beams. If this stays, I feel like her L/M beams should be 550/600 on hit and 300 chip instead. But considering the recent re-change to the damage of her normals, maybe 250 chip would be better.
c.MK: This is an amazing change and is the button that I prefer against the BB MU. Like it was said before, you'd have to set mine somewhere around midscreen and then back up to fullscreen to stop H Brass from clipping you. So I didn't feel a reason to risk losing neutral just to set down one of my resources to stop Brass once, and instead opted to c.MK to break his armor. Now I get a reward for correctly reading Brass/SSJ with a conversion at max range without spending a bar.
s.HP: I feel that this is a much better compromise than giving it 2 hits of armor, especially since s.HP > Impact is now a thing. Those 3 frames matter from my current experience. Still loses as a reversal (because she's not supposed have good reversals), but it's better for neutral. All in all, it has more applications now.
L Danger: The new change has helped me beat out a lot more jumpins that I couldn't before (Parasoul's j.HP and Fukua's j.HK just to name a couple), and even some jabs by accident. The extra distance and height helps me convert with Magnet much more. The cancel period to convert properly into it on retail was weird, now I don't feel that way anymore. But I wonder what she can avoid now that she couldn't before with it in terms of grounded attacks.
Magnet: The strike-invincibility is helping me too much on wakeup, but maybe it's because my opponents are used to just using a meaty block string on her wakeup instead of using Grab + assist. s.HP > Mine will be a good enough reversal I think. We'll see how this pans out.
Beam Super: Not sure how I feel about the meter change. I can end a lot more combos in it now where otherwise I would use Magnet to kill them and deny them more meter instead. Not only that, but it almost feels like Argus now where I'll use it to push the opponent away at the end of my combos where it might kill in order to gain distance again. (Thank you Mike for remembering about the wrong quote being used on lv5 as a DHC <3)
j.HK: It loses to a lot of standing normals now, which is good. I always felt that it should be used as a movement option (and mixup option, at most), rather than a tool to directly approach your opponent, like many Robos I've seen try to use it for.
Missiles: I find that the extra missile, together with the new speed of when the heads get activated makes me use it just a bit more. They gain more utility in a lot more cases, and I feel they are fine the way they are now. (but I do wonder why taunted missiles gives 21 of them instead of 24?)
Overall? Like it was said before, I have to think a lot more as Robo now, which is probably one of the better side-products to come from this. "I got hit, but that was entirely on me," is a thought that pops into my head every time I get hit as her, but this is the way I should be feeling when I play any character and this alone will help me level up as a player I feel. Many of the smaller changes to Robo were really good for her, but the major changes might be too strong. To reiterate, if air beams getting refreshed with double jumps stay, they should get a slight damage nerf to help mitigate their added usefulness. This is one of the bigger things that lends her the ability to keepaway better by choosing not to do a second beam when you read the opponent blocking in fear of it. Lessening the damage would help the opponent move towards her more often than not since she shouldn't strictly be a keepaway character. Losing high properties on DJCs (like Mike suggested), while regaining them in lv3 form I feel would help lessen her stifling presence once she's already on top of you (that's Filia's job imo). Speaking of lv3. It's 3 bars to activate, yes, but if the opponent spent a bar to snap her in, maybe the timer should be set to 35-40% remaining instead of 50%? If the opponent runs away, the added speed to her head calls lets her place a mine and tag out anyway, but snapping her in should definitely not be a free kill on her. Even with the new damage added to normals, I tend to end my combos in s.HK > c.HK for the wallsplat just to keep playing keepaway again, and I feel this is a bad thing to want to do almost every time. 60% of my combos are ending like this right now, while 30% of the time I'm going for a reset, and 10% when I'm actually finishing the combo. Even when it would kill, I want to wallsplat into more keepaway to keep the bar for DHCs/lv3 instead of spending it and killing, because she's much more effective at it now.
Don't get me wrong, when I originally heard and saw some of Robo when she was being worked on, I REALLY wanted her to be a keepaway character, since that's the archtype I tend to lean more towards, and I'm super happy to play her current version. However, this is hiding her former zoning self, which just needed the small changes and the damage nerf. She doesn't need to use her long range options to control where the opponent moves in order to start her upclose game as much anymore, she can opt to keep them out now more often than not. I want Robo to simply be healthy for the game, regardless of how I want to play her.
But whatever ends up happening, I'll just simply adapt and continue playing her end-of-the-line version just like I adapted a year ago once she was finished.
Spoiler (Move your mouse to the spoiler area to reveal the content)
So given that the hurtboxes of some of the characters were changed in the name of making them more consistent to OTG than other characters and Filia/Fukua's snap had its vertical hitbox increased, I thought I'd mention that a small problem when Val tries to snap some of these characters. If you try to OTG Snap Filia/Fukua, Squigly, Parasoul and Eliza then it will sometimes whiff on them. I came across this when I was doing double snap corner carries as Val with the final string cr.HP, j.LK (1), j.MP (3-4), j.HK, H Bypass. The snap does connect on these characters if you delay it very slightly but I thought I'd mention this. Perhaps to fix it Val's snap hitboxes should be be increased slightly below her?
It isn't that big of a deal, just an annoying inconsistency, and as I said, you can avoid it by slightly delaying your snap vs these characters.
I like the Robo buffs. I do wish her jLK were a little better since I really don't like A2Aing with her but all her tools keep me away from even needing to worry about that now.
Another crazy thing would be to let robo keep some momentum from her dash when she crouches so you don't accidentally stop early and whiff 2LK which gets her killed.
But these are just silly ideas, Robo is fine now and her tools being better make her even more fun.
By the way why did Robo get some damage back? I thought how it was first was fine and fair because all the other good stuff she got. She could do 5k in a combo for all I care.
Japan wants her to do more damage.
Nobody here does from what I can gather.
I don't like the damage buff personally.
Oops I thought they were talking about that old beta change where Peacock couldn't convert off air throw and it got very difficult.
I see now that it didn't make it out and it's been the same as ever.
Shows how much I play Peacock, nevermind.
I'm not sure what they mean now either.
I agree with this. is there a way to make her recover a tiny bit faster to do upperkhat conversions on all of the cast?
Oh yeah, similar thing, but when you DHC into eliza's level 3, can she jump on screen a little farther forward? I guess this could get fixed by extending the forward hitbox a bit too, but there are plenty of situation where you can't DHC into her level 3 without whiffing unless the move you did before DHCing has enough hitstun to allow you to instantly switch to the horizontal phase of the super and catch them.
@alexpi Could you give examples of when Eliza's Lvl3 DHC might whiff? Thanks
Squigly Drag n Bite xx any of her supers DHC whiffs midscreen.
While that is true, I think that has more to do with Squigly than Eliza's Lvl3. For example, Drag n Bite xx BattleOpera DHC Fenrir Drive will always whiff at mid-max distance. Drag n Bite doesn't bring your opponent any closer to you, so you can actually DHC into Khepri Sun if you're close enough. Personally, I've never had this issue but I can see where you're coming from/
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