Skullgirls Encore Edition Tiers and Matchups Discussion Thread: The Revengeance

Discussion in 'Gameplay General' started by rayplay, Sep 7, 2013.

  1. Adwins

    Adwins Active Member

    Steam:
    AppleDashWINS
    Ms. Fortune
    Squigly
    Eliza
    Pretty sure any tier lists for this game would involve at least 4 axes. To make it easier on myself, when i think about things like this I just think of them as solos and advantages/disadvantages over others, which would then be covered by the assists of your choice.

    On Squig v Filia, I would actually argue Filia is innately better because Squigly's pressure/mixups are easier to escape (pushblocking) in a game that's all about applying near-constant pressure. Don't think Squig even beats Filia in the air.

    Squigly can apply pressure at most ranges but Filia focuses on one area and does it much better than squiggy-poo
     
  2. alexpi

    alexpi Your waifu sucks

    Eh, I think Filia's pretty vulnerable to pushblocks too. Filia requires a bit more knowledge to know when to pushblock, but her neutral is significantly worse than squigly's and gets punished much more for getting pushed out.
     
    iLoli likes this.
  3. IsaVulpes

    IsaVulpes Just Throw

    Location:
    Trinidad && Tobago
    Ms. Fortune
    Filia
    Double
  4. Sorry to reply to a multiple-months-old post, but this kinda bothered me, and it might apply to more lists, too. You can't have the 'bottom' of a tier list be "mid tier". I get that you're trying to say that the entire game is very balanced (I wholeheartedly agree), but relatively low is still relatively low. Bottom Tier might be very close in skill to Top Tier, but it's still the bottom.

    Edit: WELP! Browsed through the last couple pages and saw that you released a more recent opinion of the tier list. My b... Carry on!
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2015
    mcpeanuts likes this.
  5. Mike_Z

    Mike_Z Defender of the Night Lab Zero

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Steam:
    labzero_mike
    PSN:
    MikeZWasTaken
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    Peacock
    To reply to your reply to a months-old post, I think the point people are trying to make with "mid tier" is that when you say "bottom tier" in general you mean "do not play this character unless you are a loyalist who is not concerned about winning", whereas in SG even the worst characters are still viable.
     
  6. missingno

    missingno Bird/Normal

    Location:
    PA
    Steam:
    /id/MegaMissingno
    Valentine
    Robo Fortune
    Parasoul
    I like using letter grades rather than top/middle/bottom to avoid that confusion and make it a little clearer how far apart they are. It's kind of weird to say there's no "bottom tier", but saying there's no F-tier makes perfect sense.
     
  7. Adwins

    Adwins Active Member

    Steam:
    AppleDashWINS
    Ms. Fortune
    Squigly
    Eliza
    I'm not sure if this discussion has been done here before, but i suppose it wouldn't hurt to ask.

    There's a lot of consensus that Peacock is the best character in the game, but second place usually flips between Fukua and Eliza. I personally think Fukua should take second best since she's faster overall and she gets more utility out of her supers, but what do you guys think?
     
  8. alexpi

    alexpi Your waifu sucks

    I like Eliza overall better because she has more good options for assists and, IMO, better mixups. I mean, it's splitting hairs at this point between A1 and A2.
     
  9. keninblack

    keninblack Lit Events Mod

    Location:
    Summit, NJ
    Parasoul
    Double
    Painwheel
    Peacock is nooooot the best at all, she's good but not the best.

    Double/Fukua/Eliza any of them are the best over Peacock.
     
    mcpeanuts likes this.
  10. IsaVulpes

    IsaVulpes Just Throw

    Location:
    Trinidad && Tobago
    Ms. Fortune
    Filia
    Double
    I love how this happened

    Luger is less minus on block and she goes from "Worst character (ok maybe in front of Squigly), without invincible Bomber she is useless" to "Top5 easy, maybe more"
     
  11. keninblack

    keninblack Lit Events Mod

    Location:
    Summit, NJ
    Parasoul
    Double
    Painwheel
    Luger, Monster, C.LK, bomber on point being better, more damage on car, Monster again, its a lot of things.
     
  12. Dhoppler

    Dhoppler Forsaken by grains. Hated by the food industry.

    Location:
    KCK
    Steam:
    dhoppler
    PSN:
    dhoppler
    XBL:
    stormin fiasco
    Peacock
    Ms. Fortune
    Big Band
    As a peacock main, I'm refraining from this argument. Feel free to make your case though @keninblack

    Ps. I'm late
     
  13. IsaVulpes

    IsaVulpes Just Throw

    Location:
    Trinidad && Tobago
    Ms. Fortune
    Filia
    Double
    All of these things were part of the same patch?.? http://skullgirls.com/2015/04/skullgirls-encore-1-04-wulfpatch-notes/

    This is the list of things she got on the main build since the Bomber change:

    Double
    • New Taunt added: False Intentions (LP, LK, MK, HK, HP, MP). Donate 1% meter to your opponent!
    • c.LK attack boxes now match Painwheel’s, for improved off-the-ground hit (OTG) ability.
    • The window to cancel Hornet Bomber to a Blockbuster after landing is now a consistent 11f. Previously, it depended on positioning and could be as low as 4f.
    • Luger Replica received the following changes:
      • Recovery for all versions has been improved from 38f to 37f.
      • Block stun for all versions has been improved from 18f to 25f, improving advantage on block from -11f to -4f at point blank range.
     
  14. Dhoppler

    Dhoppler Forsaken by grains. Hated by the food industry.

    Location:
    KCK
    Steam:
    dhoppler
    PSN:
    dhoppler
    XBL:
    stormin fiasco
    Peacock
    Ms. Fortune
    Big Band
    I feel like this is missing monster.
     
  15. keninblack

    keninblack Lit Events Mod

    Location:
    Summit, NJ
    Parasoul
    Double
    Painwheel
    Who was saying she was bad during the Beowulf patch? She's been good since D:
     
  16. mcpeanuts

    mcpeanuts Anchor Peacock is the future

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Steam:
    may_contain_peanuts
    Double
    Big Band
    Peacock
    Didn't Sage used to say that all the time?
     
  17. keninblack

    keninblack Lit Events Mod

    Location:
    Summit, NJ
    Parasoul
    Double
    Painwheel
    It was the Eliza patch, Beo is when Double got all the goodies to make her lit.

    Eliza patch she was gaaaaaarb
     
  18. Pickles

    Pickles VT scene?

    Location:
    Vermont
    Steam:
    Pickles (/id/shamanlord)
    PSN:
    PS_Shamanlord (but I rarely use this for SG)
    Filia
    Double
    Unknown
    IIRC sage has said for a while (and still does) that anchor double has been bad since bomber changes. Point double was something that had been relatively unexplored prior to bomber change because anchor was so good. So I think the change was people went from saying "she sucks" to "she sucks as anchor but man this character is a good point now"
     
  19. dekillsage

    dekillsage Gloomy EVO Champ 2014

    Beowulf
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    I used to say she was bad.
    Now I think she is okay.
     
  20. IsaVulpes

    IsaVulpes Just Throw

    Location:
    Trinidad && Tobago
    Ms. Fortune
    Filia
    Double
    Did your opinion again change drastically from this, or is top2 = okay?
     
  21. dekillsage

    dekillsage Gloomy EVO Champ 2014

    Beowulf
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    Top 2 "point" character. Similar to what some people think of Valentine.
     
  22. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    Hmmm.. Interesting.

    The primary things that sages double has gained in games over the old double is now she uses slide combos for more damage and monster instead of cats.


    I was thinking maybe it was because doubles resets have had a bit of an overhaul since sage took her on.. Double has really good left right crossunders.


    Her position could see some re evaluation, but I'm still of the thinking that val,peacock,Eliza are top 3.

    The only matchup that val loses that I know of... Or gets close to losing.. Is to fukua IMHO, MAYBE has some troubles against eliza and bella?

    Val beats peacock in my head and basically every other character in the game. So I can't see Val not being top when I think she has the best matchup so in the game.
     
  23. Kankato

    Kankato Who'll I main this month?

    Location:
    Long Beach, CA
    Steam:
    Night_Breeder
    PSN:
    All-Names-R-Taken
    Squigly
    Double
    So is it a good idea to run Double by herself, or should you look for a different character to solo with?
     
  24. joshb911

    joshb911 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Virginia
    Steam:
    joshb911
    Unknown
    Unknown
    Unknown
    Just play who you want to play man... If your not succsesful or don't like it try something else don't base it off of "tier"
     
  25. keninblack

    keninblack Lit Events Mod

    Location:
    Summit, NJ
    Parasoul
    Double
    Painwheel
    Nono i'm not going to sugar coat it.

    Solo Double isn't that good.

    Solo in general has nothing but disadvantages. Up to you if you want to play that way and see what you can do, a handful of strong solo players exist, no real solo double players outside of players who play Double on a team and just pick her solo cuz fuck it. So up to you, I feel like running Double/Assist or Double/Assist/Assist would TOTALLY be what you want to do to optimize Double.
     
  26. Kankato

    Kankato Who'll I main this month?

    Location:
    Long Beach, CA
    Steam:
    Night_Breeder
    PSN:
    All-Names-R-Taken
    Squigly
    Double
    Let me rephrase the question: Should I play anchor Double? Because that's basically playing her solo, right?
     
  27. keninblack

    keninblack Lit Events Mod

    Location:
    Summit, NJ
    Parasoul
    Double
    Painwheel
    Ooo okay thats a dinstinction, anchor Double is becoming less and less optimal as time goes on tbh. I feel like she's maybe 5th-6th best anchor which isn't tooo bad but to really make it work you need a team that builds meter.

    PW/HK Fiber/I assume MK bomber?? Is a strong enough team I feel. Putting Double in anyother position wouldn't really benefit you much. You'd have to have different teammates for that to work, but with those 3 characters you have under your avatar thats the best order yes.
     
  28. Kankato

    Kankato Who'll I main this month?

    Location:
    Long Beach, CA
    Steam:
    Night_Breeder
    PSN:
    All-Names-R-Taken
    Squigly
    Double
    Thanks for the help, but I don't really like Fortune or Painwheel very much anymore, so I'm learning Squigly and Parasoul at the moment. My team will probably end up Squigs/M Bomber/Pillar at this rate, but I'm still experimenting with the cast.

    So what is it about Double that's losing clout as an anchor? Is it the weaker neutral? The lack of insane incoming Mixups? The reliance of meter?
     
  29. keninblack

    keninblack Lit Events Mod

    Location:
    Summit, NJ
    Parasoul
    Double
    Painwheel
    The reliance of meter, not the strongest reversal, not able to use all of her great dhc options by herself, a loot of tactics and strengths she has get soo much stronger with an assist so to not have one can be pretty crippiling. She's not a BAD anchor but she is certainly no Eliza/BB/Bella/etc

    Squig/M Bomber/Pillar

    Parasoul/Drag N Bite or Cremation/LK Bomber

    Double/Drag N Bite or Cremation/Pillar


    Any of these would work for your team, your order included of course, so experiment!
     
  30. alexpi

    alexpi Your waifu sucks

    Double is double plus good with Drag n Bite assist. It can give you a meterless pick up off reversal Bomber and give you conversions off of block strings into delayed mp Luger. It's also nice to have mostly safe DHCs.
     
  31. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    Anchor and solo aren't nearly the same. Besides the obvious things like HP and damage being highly different, the primary distinction that separates anchor from solo is that anchor will generally have a lot of meter to work with, and that anchor is very useful for dhc.


    The primary reason why anchor double isn't as good an anchor as before is because she's had her assists nerfed, and because she has more competition at anchor now than she did when the game first dropped.
     
  32. ashxu

    ashxu its time to ape

    Location:
    down under
    Steam:
    ashzu
    Valentine
    Big Band
    Fukua
    Am I missing out on some epic new Skullgirls meme where Valentine is low tier?
     
  33. Triblue

    Triblue Active Member

    Steam:
    jujubemaster
    Painwheel
    Ms. Fortune
    Double
    People at one point in time did complain about Valentine being weak, but that was mostly before she got the damage buff.
     
  34. ashxu

    ashxu its time to ape

    Location:
    down under
    Steam:
    ashzu
    Valentine
    Big Band
    Fukua
    She was never weak, only got even better

    Edit: mainly referring to dekill's tier list thing he posted on Twitter but I'm assuming it's bait
     
  35. dekillsage

    dekillsage Gloomy EVO Champ 2014

    Beowulf
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    Where on my list does it say she's low tier?
     
  36. ashxu

    ashxu its time to ape

    Location:
    down under
    Steam:
    ashzu
    Valentine
    Big Band
    Fukua
    Comparatively speaking she's one of the weaker characters according to you
     
  37. dekillsage

    dekillsage Gloomy EVO Champ 2014

    Beowulf
    Cerebella
    Big Band
  38. Grunt

    Grunt Burglar

    Steam:
    tnurG
    PSN:
    tnurG
    Cerebella
    It's easy to assume some kind of even distribution bell curve shit when looking at tier lists, even if you label each tier as a different degree of A tier.
     
    mcpeanuts likes this.
  39. alexpi

    alexpi Your waifu sucks

    Valentine lacks tentacles for truly great lovin'. therefore, she's low tier.
     
    Adwins and Cadenza like this.
  40. ashxu

    ashxu its time to ape

    Location:
    down under
    Steam:
    ashzu
    Valentine
    Big Band
    Fukua
    varying levels of good is still a bell curve, just because you didnt give them S, A, B, C doesn't mean the the lowest on the list aren't bad or "not as good".

    last I checked the entire purpose of tier lists is to categorize characters in certain TIERS of how good they are
     

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