Skullgirls Team Building Thread

Discussion in 'Gameplay General' started by Vladislav_Paizis, Sep 13, 2013.

  1. Vladislav_Paizis

    Vladislav_Paizis On hiatus from SG

    Location:
    Tallinn, Estonia
    Steam:
    Vladislav_Paizis
    PSN:
    Vlad7779311
    Ms. Fortune
    Eliza
    Unknown
    Let's have a thread where we discuss team synergy and give suggestions on assists.

    I mostly play Cerebella (HP LnL)/Ms Fortune (HK Fiber Upper). I have an interest in Valentine, Squigly and Double. Instead of learning 2 new characters at once + Ms. Fortune, I would like to learn 1 new character at a time.

    What do people think of these teams:

    Valentine (Throw)/Cerebella/Fortune
    Squigly (???)/Cerebella/Fortune
    Cerebella/Double (Which Hornet Bomber is best?)/Fortune or maybe Bella/Fortune/Double?

    I use Fortune's HK Fiber Upper and mostly like Bella's HP LnL assist, but would it be better to change it to Cerecopter? Does Cerecopter benefit Val like how Hornet Bomber and Drag-N-Bite do? Any other suggestions on Double and Squigly assists?
     
  2. mcpeanuts

    mcpeanuts Anchor Peacock is the future

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Steam:
    may_contain_peanuts
    Double
    Big Band
    Peacock
    If you already have Fiber Upper on your team, I would recommend using Cerecopter. In a vacuum I think Lock 'n Load is the better assist, but part of the reason for that is the armor on it making it useful for when you're getting rushed down. You would just use Fiber Uppercut for that, so you'd get more mileage out of Cerecopter, I think.

    Valentine/Cerecopter/Fiber Upper is an okay team I think. The big problem that jumps out at me is you don't have a safe DHC unless you have 3 bars for Diamonds are Forever. But otherwise you have two useful assists for Valentine and then two characters behind her who can work reasonably well with each other.

    I think the Squigly team would work better with Squigly in the second position, because Squigly isn't the best battery, and having her second gives you Diamond Dynamo DHC to Squigly Battle Opera. Gives you the option of mashing out a super invincible move with a massive hitbox and either get a full combo off it on hit or get massive advantage on block if it's blocked. So I'd run that team as Cerebella/Squigly/Fortune. Best Squigly assist for that team is probably Drag 'n Bite, gives you a lockdown assist that can also help you get in.

    For the Double team I would recommend putting Double second so you can take advantage of Flesh Step mixups. Flesh Step gets much better when you can use it while simultaneously calling an assist. Having her second also lets you do Diamond Dynamo DHC to Cattelite Lives, which is really cheap for basically the same reasons the Squigly Battle Opera DHC is cheap. The best version of Hornet Bomber is usually either light or medium. Light is more invincible but medium travels further. Since you already have an invincible assist in Fiber Upper, I think you'd get more mileage out of M Hornet Bomber. On the other hand, L Hornet Bomber might be easier for Cerebella to convert off of. I'm not sure. I'd recommend trying both and seeing which one you like more.
     
  3. ngelicdark

    ngelicdark New Member

    Steam:
    HelloSunglassKitty
    Painwheel
    Filia
    I don't really have much to add other than mcpeanuts has already said, and I'm not that experienced to say anything on it either >.>

    Though I do have something I want to discuss..

    I mainly play the PC version now and I've been wanting to pair PW with someone (if not trio), but with the new changes that has affected Dubs, Para and possibly Filia now, I'm not sure what to pair her up with. Never mind the fact Squigly is there too :c

    For a while I was thinking Squigly/PW/Filia with Squigly mainly there to battery 2 bars before I DHC into HI for PW, I'm afraid that it's not a very feasible plan since it's rather inflexible (what if I lose Squigly off the bat and I'm just down to a PW and Updo/Filia?). I could have Filia on point for a better character first off, but I'm not too keen on PW being anchor (I feel like Bella even has better choices for her solo play when it's down to 1v1 or 2v1 but her damage is heavily affected as well by ratios...).

    Valentine/PW/Filia was another idea that kind of stirred something up (throw away character for meter/and PW/Filia as the main core).

    Then I was thinking maybe Paras/PW/Bella, but I still have the problem of needing to switch Parasoul out before she dies so I don't lose NP (seeing as I'll probably put LnL on Bella for distance closing).

    Then the problem of the ratios playing heavily off favor for PW's damage who I plan to be my main character...some of the reading and what I'm seeing lends me to believe PW tends to have an easier time on a duo to not offset her damage and HP ratio too much...but the options of having a trio opens up a lot of different options for her :/

    I know I'm theory crafting a ton, but I like to have a plan on what I'm going to learn for my team before I go ahead and start devoting time to another character, but I'll appreciate it if someone has some input .-. Thanks in advance .-.
     
  4. mcpeanuts

    mcpeanuts Anchor Peacock is the future

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Steam:
    may_contain_peanuts
    Double
    Big Band
    Peacock
    As far as battery characters go, I don't think Squigly is among the better ones. She's better at using meter than building it. Valentine or Parasoul would work better for that. If you run with Parasoul I wouldn't stress too hard about "I have to get this character out before she dies so I can use her great assist". I would think of Napalm Pillar as a bonus if your team order happens to change during the match, and not as some sort of drawback. It's okay to run characters with good assists on point.

    I think anchor Painwheel works better than you're giving her credit for. She has options coming in with Buer Thresher and fly, and if she comes in with a lot of meter you have some options to spend it like Hatred Install/level 3/combo Buer Threshers into each other until you run out of meter. The big problem with anchor Painwheel is she has trouble dealing with DP assists by herself, but as long as your point character(s) did some work you shouldn't find yourself in that scenario.

    Actually this ties into something I wanted to discuss which is Bella/Painwheel and x/Bella/Painwheel. I haven't really seen anyone playing these characters together, and I think someone should, because in this version of the game they work very well together. The idea is basically the same as the Double/Painwheel team that's sweeping the nation; you Diamond Dynamo and then DHC to Hatred Install. On block you're at plus frames with an Installed Painwheel right in their face, and on hit you can do a full Painwheel combo. I think in some ways this is better than Double's car super and in some ways it's worse. You can't use it from full screen like you would with car, but Diamond Dynamo doesn't whiff the way car sometimes does, and the fact that Diamond Dynamo can't be blocked after the flash means sometimes it will randomly hit for no good goddam reason. The DHC also works from Ultimate Showstopper, and the damage on that one is actually enough to touch of death on 2v3 or 3v3.

    This is entirely theory fighting, though. And I haven't really thought about what assists you would use with this team. I'm planning on running some ranked later this week with Bella/Painwheel to see how it goes.
     
  5. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    I think the pw install is a good dhc for just about any direct contact super.. The problem is setting it up. And that's where DD fails. Bella has to get in.... But once in... Why dhc out to pw? You're in and you're Bella.... It's good as an attempt to reversal and then go into dhc install or to just do Bella combo into DD into install... But the reason why double car is so good is because it works from full screen and is a reversal into pressure... So I don't think it can be as good as dubs/pw.


    Though it's no big deal there is a Bella/pw player of merit though I can't remember where to find his games... Godsgarden? He's a jap player and he has Bella in front of pw... His tactic is pw with mp stinger and Bella with battletoads... He he armor headbutts while calling out pw assist and it protects Bella's recovery on block. There was also a player at evo running this strategy... Don't know if it was coincidence or if it was him or what... But the strategy while decent has holes cause it isn't completely tight especially from different distances... But a cool strat nonetheless... I hope your Bella and pw experiment goes well :)
     
  6. When's Skullgirls

    When's Skullgirls When's Marie?

    Location:
    Santa Ana, Ca.
    Steam:
    When's Skullgirls?
    Ms. Fortune
    Painwheel
    Cerebella
    I'm also thinking of building a new team. I originally started out as Painwheel and then picked up Squigly but then dropped her after EVO and picked up Cerebella recently. I'm getting the hang of 'em, but it feels like I'm still missing something in it. So I thought about picking up Ms. Fortune.

    So, I Have Fortune (Fiber upper M) on point, Painwheel (MP Stinger), and Cerebella (Lock'n Load H) anchor. How does this sound?
     
  7. Lunerstep

    Lunerstep Filia Fanatic, Minette Supporter, and I love Marie

    PSN:
    xLunarHeartx
    Filia
    Unknown
    Unknown
    I consider myself a very low tier rookie who wins fights by luck these days, I use filia and double, been trying to figure a god 3rd member, but I barely have a good handle on my 2 as is, any advice or tips to make the team better and what should the best assist be for them?
     
  8. IsaVulpes

    IsaVulpes Just Throw

    Location:
    Trinidad && Tobago
    Ms. Fortune
    Filia
    Double
    Why not H?

    "I have no idea how to play my two characters, let me add a third"?.? How about.. you learn Filia/Double first :/
     
  9. IsaVulpes

    IsaVulpes Just Throw

    Location:
    Trinidad && Tobago
    Ms. Fortune
    Filia
    Double
    Squigly is the born 2nd char, I wouldn't run her anywhere else.
    I don't know what your issue with anchor PW is
    I *especially* don't get what your problem with "Squigly dies and I'm down to PW+Updo" would be?.?

    This looks pretty good

    Why are you desperate for Pillar when you run LnL? That's a rather decent GTFO assist, no need for a DP on top at all.

    In general you have to decide what you want.. if you want to play PW as your main char, it's probably best to run her point - the point just has the biggest impact overall.
    If you can choose out of Para+Bella+Filia+Squigly to support your PW, there are plentiful teams to pick from.
    Eg PW/Squigly/Filia (CStage/Chord + Updo assists) would support your Painwheel rather well and function nicely without her, too.

    Trio is better always
     
    mcpeanuts likes this.
  10. mcpeanuts

    mcpeanuts Anchor Peacock is the future

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Steam:
    may_contain_peanuts
    Double
    Big Band
    Peacock
    Played a few hours last night with the Bella/Painwheel team I was talking about. It worked out about as well in practice as it did in all my theory fighting, which is always validating. I don't really have that great of a Bella but with this team I almost feel like it doesn't matter if you do. Like if Bella does anything at all that's gravy, the real point is just to have her stay in long enough to build up to 2 bars and then do the DHC. Diamond Dynamo works as well to set up Hatred Install as I was hoping. It has a massive hitbox that's never going to whiff unless you did it full screen or something, it's easy enough to convert off of after the DHC, and there's enough blockstun on it that Painwheel gets in safely if it's blocked (which isn't true of all supers). The only issue is that they can pushblock it. If you were to just let the DD rock at that point Painwheel could get punished, so I think you want to DHC as soon as you see the pushblock animation so that Painwheel's still at plus frames when she comes in.

    I didn't really find a Painwheel assist that I thought was great (M Nail was the most useful thing I tried), but Cerecopter assist is OD for Painwheel. Like you're going to do this DHC, do an obnoxiously long Hatred Install combo that carries them to the corner, then call a meaty Cerecopter assist and go for Painwheel mixups. I don't generally like trying to go for oki in this game but with this team I think you can do it.

    The only real problem with the team is that you don't really have an assist that helps at neutral so the team could probably benefit from having Filia (every team could be better with Filia). But the Bella/Painwheel synergy is real. Those two characters work really well together.
     
  11. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    @mcpeanuts

    I've tried out that team combo before and found it lacking... Particularly against Bella cause she just pbgc through all my fly highs and lows... And against others cause painwheels flight overheads are very telegraphed and slow against people with experience...plus people using autoblock..
    I'm wondering if I should revisit the team or if your success with it was based on people not knowing the matchup that well?

    Because admittedly I wasn't running the team at 100% proficiency, and I certainly wasn't using install...
     
  12. mcpeanuts

    mcpeanuts Anchor Peacock is the future

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Steam:
    may_contain_peanuts
    Double
    Big Band
    Peacock
    I mean if you weren't using install, you weren't really playing Bella/Painwheel. That's literally what makes the team good. Without it, it's trash.
     
  13. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    ok cool, that's what I thought after I wrote that.. fast fly with a good lockdown. yeah I can see that being good. but kinda a one trick pony? im not downing your strat. just trying to figure out its kinks. if its actually trash outside of install I don't know how good it is... you have to get a meter, then get close enough to get them to block copter to make raw install safe (on the worst of occasions... but yeah the opponent will generally let pw just get install for free) and then you get install.. but what then? you kill a character then are back to a trash strat? idk, I guess maybe I just need to try it out and see how far I get. ive only been asking because im interested in the team since I have used the team before and theory fightered up that it might be good.

    it was sde that I last tried the team though.

    are you using it like peacock/painwheel/bella? or just pw/bella or bella/pw?
     
  14. mcpeanuts

    mcpeanuts Anchor Peacock is the future

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Steam:
    may_contain_peanuts
    Double
    Big Band
    Peacock
    Just Bella/Painwheel. Like I said I think the ideal team is closer to Bella/Painwheel/Filia.
     
    Dime likes this.
  15. ngelicdark

    ngelicdark New Member

    Steam:
    HelloSunglassKitty
    Painwheel
    Filia
    @everyone:
    Thanks for replying, your input is very much appreciated :)

    @mcpeanuts: That's pretty cool that Bella/PW worked as intended? Although I do share Dime's input about it being a one trick pony. Who knows though, it might be a more flexible one than we'd think it to be... I'd like to pick up Bella if only to learn how to play grapplers (and I love her VA...)

    @isa: Thanks for your input, it cements a lot of the things that I have read. I don't have anything against PW anchor except for maybe on the fact that if I play right on a trio, I don't ever get to really use her much... lol. And maybe for the fact she has some difficulty getting in on some characters, which can be solved with some luck and skill lol, so no problems on that. Just means a higher learning curve though.

    Squigs I'll keep second if I ever play her from now on since the consensus is so strong on that (from other threads I'm reading as well). I might play her if I put PW on point, but I don't want to put the main player point on a trio if I don't have to...If I screw up reading an opponent from the get go and lose her, then that whole team kind of falls apart in my head. It's probably a psychological thing though (who says that the other two have to die just as fast anyway?) and that could easily be remedied by having the remaining duo actively supporting each other as well as they would have support PW. Filia anchor and Squigs on second probably fits that bill fairly well (I think?).

    Although I think I'm still just as confused, it's good to know that there are more ways to look at team building than what I had just outlined. In fact a lot of the stuff I outlined were probably viable but maybe just not..optimized? (If that word can be used for this kind of scenario).

    Maybe at the end of the day though, is that I should use whoever I want to and just play around with that and maybe readjusting strategies to fit as well. Which says a lot for the balancing actually, and that ain't half bad!
     
  16. GingerJesus

    GingerJesus Member

    Location:
    Oklahoma
    Steam:
    knewkirk
    PSN:
    DPKiel
    Filia
    Peacock
    Cerebella
    First thing, I know with only 9 characters there aren't a huge number of teams, but I would think that team building would be something really big with the custom assist function. Anyways, I've had the same idea for a team since the game came out and I've finally got almost all three characters learned well enough to pull it off.

    Bella(?)Peacock(qcf+lk)Filia(dp+h)

    I've been using dp+throw for Bella's assist, but think that I could benefit more from something else should I pull Peacock or Filia out to get Bella some health back. As far as Bella game plan, using george as just a simple distraction on the ground it allows me to move about more easily. Filia allows for the get off me and let me set up my game plan.

    Peacock with Updo has been beast mode for me, from the get off me aspect to calling it and teleporting behind them for full combo if it hits.

    Filia anchor isn't the best, but she is fast. I am willing to pick up Squigly if she could replace any of the characters on my team, just have to wait for console update. :( So let me know what you guys think, I've been searching through video and can't seem to find anyone with this team, though Peacock and Filia I've seen a few times.
     
  17. IsaVulpes

    IsaVulpes Just Throw

    Location:
    Trinidad && Tobago
    Ms. Fortune
    Filia
    Double
    Bella/Pea/Filia is Chilldog/jmcrofts team. He isn't very active online, but gets 2nd/3rd every tournament he attends (including EVO). You can watch eg the Evo Top8 on Youtube and see him play.
    Both H.LnL and Copter would be good Bella assists for this team.

    There isn't much teambuilding going on because every char can do everything, and every assist does everything, so actual synergies are scarce.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2013
  18. bsobotka

    bsobotka Member

    Painwheel
    Peacock
    Parasoul
     
  19. GingerJesus

    GingerJesus Member

    Location:
    Oklahoma
    Steam:
    knewkirk
    PSN:
    DPKiel
    Filia
    Peacock
    Cerebella
    Thank you. I've found similar teams, but not this.
     
  20. shadow0x0cloud

    shadow0x0cloud JuuseBox

    Location:
    Texas
    Steam:
    JuuseBox
    XBL:
    JuuseBox
    Parasoul
    Double
    Eliza
    So Im picking up the game off psn tomorrow and wanted to know what people though of this team. Either peacock or parasoul / double (mk butt) / cerebella (cerecopter).

    I wanted a team where I can zone and, if that fails, rush down. So with that said, which one do you guys think will be better?
     
  21. Squire Grooktook

    Squire Grooktook The wind blew all day long

    Location:
    The nexus of the universe
    Steam:
    Squire Grooktook
    PSN:
    Groucho2
    XBL:
    SquireGrooktook
    Ms. Fortune
    Filia
    Unknown
    I've been playing Fillia (Updo) with Peacock (George's Day Out). What's a good third? Most common answer is Double, but I don't really like her playstyle and am wondering if there's any other characters who compliment a Fillia/Peacock duo well.
     
  22. MaverickHunterX

    MaverickHunterX Jaded

    Location:
    Philippines
    Steam:
    maverickhunterx3
    XBL:
    HunterMaverickX
    Peacock
    Parasoul
    Robo Fortune
    I used to playing Peacock solo but since my recent matches are not turning out well I decided to add another character and form a team. In this case I picked Parasoul, who is my planned character before I got the game. I just realized that despite her charged normals and crappy mobility she is well-endowed in the buttons and damage department. I use Napalm Pillar for her as her assist move.

    I'm still thinking on Peacock's assist move. Would it be George at the Airshow or Shadow of Impending Doom?

    Also, what's the button combination for Parasoul's Kula Diamond palette? I have no idea how to get it. x_x
     
  23. Hilary

    Hilary Well-Known Member

    I really like Bella/Painwheel/Double.

    Cruel Lily gets the job done for lockdown when the other two need it.
    MK Bomber is still MK Bomber.

    H.LnL doubles as an approach tool for the other two, as well as an armored meatshield for Double to pop lugers and be a little more dynamic with fleshsteps when the spacing is right. The damage/mixups it adds to PW crossups is nice, and I feel like it'll be good free damage mid-combo if/when I can figure out how to use it to extend combos well enough.

    Good DHC synergy between all three; Hatred Install loves cars, 360s, and dynamos. Safetying into discounted installs or cat-heads is always nice.

    The only thing I dislike is not having an Updo, and that LnL and Bomber essentially fill the same role as approach/crossup tools. That said, I think that qualitatively they're different enough (and the fact that Double and Bella never hate having approach tools of their own) for it to work offensively at least.
     
  24. GingerJesus

    GingerJesus Member

    Location:
    Oklahoma
    Steam:
    knewkirk
    PSN:
    DPKiel
    Filia
    Peacock
    Cerebella

    Bella has some good assist; copter, anti-air grab l'n'l (what I'm using now), titan knuckle, other command grab, run moves... Mr. Peck uses this combo, check the vids on the first page of this thread.
     
  25. IsaVulpes

    IsaVulpes Just Throw

    Location:
    Trinidad && Tobago
    Ms. Fortune
    Filia
    Double
    Depends on where you want to run said duo and in what order.
    Filia/Peacock/X would work best with Bella @ H.LnL because you need something to help out your Peacock mostly. Fortune @ H.Fiber is also workable.
    Peacock/Filia/X and Peacock/X/Filia work with anything pretty much. Like, don't pick Val Anchor, but everything else would work in some ways.
    X/Peacock/Filia works with anything, period. Put any character there, good team.

    For a Pea/Para duo I'd almost always pick s.HP, and if not that then L./M.George.
    s.HP has the great benefit of being a versatile assist that helps out your zoning (as it's a projectile), helps you get in (..as it's a projectile), and helps your offense (closerange it hits twice; meaning you get some decent lockdown)
    L.George is just an obnoxiously slow waddle thingie that controls grounded space exceptionally well. M.George is better on offense (call it, then you get a free mixup where the opponent mashing something gets him hit by the Bomb).

    H.George can work - I use it myself - but imo it has too many gaps and too specific a use to be strong on a Duo. I cover its holes with Filia third.
     
  26. Squire Grooktook

    Squire Grooktook The wind blew all day long

    Location:
    The nexus of the universe
    Steam:
    Squire Grooktook
    PSN:
    Groucho2
    XBL:
    SquireGrooktook
    Ms. Fortune
    Filia
    Unknown
    Actually, I misspoke, I didn't mean to say I was playing Fillia with Updo. I'm actually jusing HK Hairball, for a variety of purposes including teleport cross overs with Peacock. I don't mind switching to Updo though if the situation calls for it.
     
  27. GingerJesus

    GingerJesus Member

    Location:
    Oklahoma
    Steam:
    knewkirk
    PSN:
    DPKiel
    Filia
    Peacock
    Cerebella
    I could see H.hairball good for Peacock, but a third would really help for some air control. Bella aa grab would be good, fiber upper, maybe Painwheel's aa grab, pillar be great. Just my suggestion.
     
    Squire Grooktook likes this.
  28. Effay

    Effay Active Member

    Steam:
    Effay
    Valentine
    Parasoul
    Eliza
    So my two favorite characters right now are Parasoul and Squigly...with Parasoul on point and Squigly second. I'm not sure who to pick for my 3rd though. I like Filia too but am relatively inexperienced with her

    Double obviously has LK butt assist, which is really strong. I'm not currently comfortable with Double as a character though, I'll learn her if I have to.

    Painwheel seems like a strong anchor, but her c.MK isn't as good an assist as Doubles.

    I thought about anchoring with Filia but I'm not sure how good that is, plus I don't think she has any assists for this team I'd want. HP Updo is good but I want a lockdown.

    So ideally I'd want Para (Napalm pillar probably)/Squigly (Silver Chord/Center Stage, probably depends on matchup)/XX but I'd be willing to learn more characters if need be.
     
  29. GirlyStyle

    GirlyStyle Well-Known Member

    Parasoul
    Fukua
    Double
    take a grain of salt with this because i by NO means know what to even do with squiggly, so if this is completely wrong someone else speak up :P

    but,

    if you just want to rock para/squigs in the mean time, i would suggest using drag n bite or another multi hitting move to maximize parasol's lockdown game as opposed to something like silver chord/centre stage.

    if you wanted to go for a triple team, and still wanted to use silver chord/centre stage, i would suggest either bella with cerecopter/hp lnl or double butt. Both of these really help out BOTH squigs and parasoul. HP LnL really helps squigs long range/mid screen neutral and just gives parasoul more options, where copter gives lots of damage and lock damage for both, and double butt is double butt.
     
  30. He's right when it comes to parasoul/Squiggums use drag n bite. I get so much out of it. A lot more than you would any other multi hitting assist. You get really good setups for mixups that have to be blocked.


    As far as triples go, you don't HAVE TO HAVE A 3rd member but if you want one then painwheel or now Fuukua are really great choices. On the downside, painwheel is a lot of work and execution . Fuukua is fairly new so you'd have to experience that for yourself. Painwheel's lk gae bola stuns and her down two kicks is a multi hitting assist. Fuukua's drill is heavy on priority and does a lot in chip damage while leaving them open for an easy low
     
  31. Hilary

    Hilary Well-Known Member

    Question for you Filia guys. What factors govern your decisions to play Filia on point or as a second?

    I'm trying to decide on an order for Filia, Painwheel, and Double.

    The way I'm evaluating it right now is basically:

    + Filia's momentum can be kind of ridiculous to stop once she's in. On point that may be a good start, but in the second slot that's huge for tying off a bad start in tournament play.
    + Point Filia with two assists is pretty good
    ++ Any point with Updo + Horizontal is pretty good
    + Filia going ham and resetting very frequently early on in her combos does damage without spending a lot of meter and can really rack it up without getting undizzy too high.

    -/+ Filia's matchups are generally pretty tame. I can't think of many extremes (maybe parasoul or peacock?) where Filia just has a hard time no matter how well you're playing Filia generally or on that day/match. Maybe even those bad matchups can be flipped upside down if Filia gets in on her terms?

    - Point Filia has to get through multiple assists she likely wouldn't if she were second
    - Second Filia has to get through multiple meters/stance-charges/vials/whatever she likely wouldn't if she were point
     
  32. IsaVulpes

    IsaVulpes Just Throw

    Location:
    Trinidad && Tobago
    Ms. Fortune
    Filia
    Double
    The biggest negative points for point Filia are
    - You lose out on Updo assist
    - Her neutral is not very stellar, which you can avoid on 2nd via Gregor DHCing or Tag-Comboing into her
    - Filia eats through Meter very quickly (Gregor after Throw, Gregor likely after Airthrow, Gregor as Reversal, ..), and while she also builds it fast, you'd generally prefer to start out with 2-3 Bars rather than 1

    Overall I think it's fine to run her point. Honestly, most people decide on her 2nd/3rd because they don't actually play the char and just run Updo, and then point doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
     
  33. GirlyStyle

    GirlyStyle Well-Known Member

    Parasoul
    Fukua
    Double
    Just for the sake of positioning middle Filia makes most sense; a dhc into Gregor puts her right at her optimal positioning where she becomes most dangerous.

    As far as neutral goes, point Filia is one of the easier characters to deal with, IMO, and don't see assists between PW and double that would change that.
     
    Hilary likes this.
  34. ClarenceMage

    ClarenceMage git gud

    Steam:
    ClarenceMage
    PSN:
    ClarenceMage
    Valentine
    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Regular jump, LK Airball(+airdash if necessary) vertically over the opponent, call LK Doublebutt over them is one way to win neutral and get your pressure game going with Filia, by bypassing absolutely everywhere that they could put a normal. Discretion is needed as with any gameplan of course but you can do it safely after baiting updo, after they start doing a grounded move, or whatever.
     
  35. IsaVulpes

    IsaVulpes Just Throw

    Location:
    Trinidad && Tobago
    Ms. Fortune
    Filia
    Double
    You play Parasoul and may be biased :P
     
    Kankato likes this.
  36. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    Right now I'm convinced that x/parasoul/double is the best team in the game when x = pw or val or mf.


    Best overall seems to be val in front but all the teams have a slightly different flavor:

    Pw front: of the 3 point characters painwheel is the only one with a safe on block dhc, amd she has the best lockdown assist which is arguably as valuable as fiber upper since it converts way easier. And probably more valuable than any val assist. This team also has the great ability to use a "dual point" strategy of putting parasoul or painwheel first depending on matchup (and also allows lk bomber to be played well because both characters really like lk bomber) For instance i like painwheel to take on vals mobility cause now val has to deal with painwheel flight AND pillar as well. But against say, bella, i like going parasoul first because i dont have to be as afraid of bellas buttons and my reversal is fully invincible unlike deathcrawl that loses to throws. This teams primary weakness is peacock and its that weakness that i think makes it the weakest of the 3 teams.


    Fortune front:


    What CANT this team do? Excellent neutral, perhaps second or third best in game next to peacock and val. Yet fortune is good against peacock and val. In fact fortune probably only loses one matchup in the game, and that is to painwheel... Which is probably more evenish than not.


    Val front:


    Duckators team, basically, except you exchange fili for parasoul, updo for pillar, a dhc that can be combod from and one that cant... Actually wait, parasoul can combo from her dhc... Ok... So you also trade off an unsafe dhc for a safe dhc that is really hard to make unsafe.

    Idk about others but i prefer the team with parasoul on it. And having said that, val put in front of this team REALLY makes mk bomber viable for the entire team. Because parasoul converts from mk bomber almost as easily as she does from lk bomber.


    So yeah, imho, these 3 teams are currently the best in sg. I could certainly be wrong but on paper they seem hard to beat for sheer cheesiness and synergetic options.
     
  37. IsaVulpes

    IsaVulpes Just Throw

    Location:
    Trinidad && Tobago
    Ms. Fortune
    Filia
    Double
    A character with Grade SS+ resets whose weakness is the neutral and who circumvents that weakness by being second so you can DHC into them, for a character that excels at midrange and has no air options let alone a good reversal, making it dead meat on incoming..

    I really don't see much of a reason to run Parasoul second over Filia if you don't pick Tear Shot assist, as Updo is pretty much the same thing as Pillar and Filia just works better from the back than Parasoul does.

    Safe DHC or not doesn't matter much for Val, as there's little reason to save her from anything .. great, you'll have a 10% life Valentine on anchor, that's gonna win you a lot of matches?
     
  38. Ninja

    Ninja [Jazzy Diamonds]

    Location:
    Unknown
    Big Band
    Cerebella
    I'm personally running with Big Band ( HP Brass Knuckles) and Cerebella ( Excerebella ). They have great synergy with each other and excerebella gives Big Band chances to squeeze out more damage by allowing him to do a taunt in mid-combo.

    Examples of The "Jazzy Diamond":


    Show Spoiler

    Burst Bait


    Advanced Combo


    Beginner Combo


    Setup Combo


    Death Combo


    Resetting


    Durr....

    All of these combos can be cut off short if you don't have meter to spare.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2014
    Wenzel likes this.
  39. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua

    I just saw this. It is a very good point that saving val may not be worth it. That definitely puts things into perspective for putting filia in parasouls spot definitely a plus 1 or 2 for filia second, and in my mind kinda makes the fortune point team seem the strongest on paper... Cause i definitely think both fortune and painwheel for that matter are worth saving. Both have strong dhc and strong assists and painwheel can chain supers plus has an install for late game.

    Having said that, i think you may be putting a little to much stock in filias resets over the rest of the cast and i think you may be putting a little to much hype into filia plus bomber... Filias resets are great. But so are everyone elses... Especially parasouls where if you reset at the right time you literally have all these reset options off of one reset point:

    Low,throw,airthrow,burst bait,crossup,non crossup that looks like the aforementioned crossup,overhead,reversal bait,ground throw.


    And all of that is available off of dhc. Then, parasoul DEFINITELY converts better from otg assist hits cause her dash is so fast... Shes the second best at assist conversion in the game after val.

    I personally think that the place where filia really trumps parasoul is without assists. Unassisted parasoul is still good.... But certainly not comparable to filias cheese. But parasoul has the better neutral against most of the cast when assisted imho.

    On paper i still like parasoul over filia in the spot. Parasoul just seems more all around sacrificing very little with regards to what filia comes with. Though i do think they are highly comparable as far as tools go.

    Also, bad at getting out of incoming mixups is no longer really a thing like it was in sde. And in fact if parasoul makes it to the ground shes one of the better characters against incoming mixups since pillars command cant get crossed up and yet beats throws as well.

    But really that isnt the reason why being weak to incoming mixups isnt all that bad anymore:

    Undizzy carries over now. So the opponent will generally have to o reset many times in order to get a kill if they killed the first character with high undizzy... And if they didnt, then they get a full undizzy combo into not so great resets... And if they are gettng resets against parasoul... Its usually assist resets (scaled to 90%) or throw resets which give crazy meter and scale to 50%. This IS NOT to belittle that losing an incoming exchange is bad... Its just to show that the days of sde:


    First character gets hit.. You die and have an incoming mixup to deal with with no reset needed for the first kill.
    Second character comes in, fails on the incoming, gets reset once and dies, down to last charcter to try and make a comeback.


    That... Just doesnt happen anymore, whereas in sde it was kinda normal. In the newest version there is less meter gained for the attacker, so damage is reduced, undizzy is now a thing which also reduces damage, and undizzy carries over on death, and carries over on fast resets, and most characters have had there damage potential greatly reduced... So you combine all of those things and "weak incoming" characters arent really all that weak to incoming as they used to be... They can fight back now and will almsot always have a chance to fight back.

    So, yeah, i find it kinda... "Outdated" thinking that characters like parasoul and peacock are weak at the second position because of bad incoming. Not that i blame that on anyone, but in the games that ive played parasoul and peacock are so string in the second position now because of near tod nerfs, that i can barely call either character weak at second. Thats not how its happening in my games and my opponents have RIDICULOUS incoming mixups.

    But like i said, parasoul versus versus filia second is probably more taste preference on whose style one likes better versus which team either character works best with... I LOVE parasoul to follow painwheel rather than filia, as an example. But i think filia after peacock is way way better than parasoul after peacock as an example the other way.

    Good talk.
     
  40. ClarenceMage

    ClarenceMage git gud

    Steam:
    ClarenceMage
    PSN:
    ClarenceMage
    Valentine
    Painwheel
    Big Band
    I think that Ms Fortune(HK Upper)/Parasoul(L Shot)/Double(LK Butt) could be a solid contender for best team in the game.

    Ms Fortune point doesn't really require an invincible assist to cover her approaches due to her good mobility granted by air options and fiber upper is really good invincible anti-air that covers the angles people like to jump/airdash in. Not to mention she has the capacity to convert off of her own invincible reversal without meter which every other character requires an assist to do. L Shot is fantastic for covering horizontal approach, it stuffs assists, it can combo break, it can be converted off, threatens space, it slices, it dices. LK Butt is LK Butt, and thus makes for a good gtfo me assist when fiber upper is inappropriate, or as a good lockdown assist.

    DHC into Parasoul to save Fortune's red life, and she already has her BFF LK Butt in second for reversal/lockdown and now has HK Fiber upper in the back to cover another angle in her neutral. She has an easier time converting off of Fiber Upper than most characters due to super jump j.whatever j.HP, so while mash assist into convert is less brainless with Fiber Upper, the problem is far easier surmountable by Parasoul.

    Double of course is Double and makes every time better due to her support prowess, but her neutral game on point is quite servicable with L Shot to augment her neutral and pressure game. The Parasoul->Double order likely means that Double has a decent amount of meter to play with if you DHC to double to recover red life. HK Fiber upper gives her an actual chance to survive pressure, and although it's significantly more difficult to convert off of with Double than Parasoul, it's still possible with dash superjump j.LK j.MK Fridge on lights, j.LP j.MP j.HK, j.MK fridge on heavies - Though not an optimal starter, it's still a starter and it converts just fine into barrel loop/your choice of reset anyway.

    The synergy on this team is quite stronk but the primary weakness is that it doesn't have updo or pillar, so you can't just wack people out of the air and convert for free, so you have to focus on more of a baiting/pressure/frametrap/mixup heavy game, which luckily L shot helps begin, and LK helps solidify. But, all of those strengths combined with overall team synergy I think overcome that weakness.
     
    Dime likes this.

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