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Squigly General: Art of the Daisy Pusher

ok here it is. sorry for the real shitty quality ive been having issues with recording stuff lately.

 
So what are you guys using for double-snap combos? I saw one of the other guys post a video from endless beta using 5LP 5HK [repeat]. Any others?
 
So what are you guys using for double-snap combos? I saw one of the other guys post a video from endless beta using 5LP 5HK [repeat]. Any others?
That is exactly what I do.

First, you remember that silver chord doesn't work on assists, so you don't try to use it to confirm haha. I have autopiloted into it before and dropped DS opportunities.

Depending on how far out of the corner you land the snap, you will want to use 5MK instead of 5HK for the first launch due to its range. In fact I often do something like:

2LK 5MK
j.MK j.HK xx 236MK
[5LP 5HK xx 236PP] x N
 
i go for super lazy divekick stuff on double snaps. way easier to make sure you'll be close enough to get the full double snap combo.
Just do a regular divekick loop, double snap on the next ground string, then launch and repeat divekick loops ad nauseum. It's slower, but easier to hit everything.
 
i go for super lazy divekick stuff on double snaps. way easier to make sure you'll be close enough to get the full double snap combo.
Just do a regular divekick loop, double snap on the next ground string, then launch and repeat divekick loops ad nauseum. It's slower, but easier to hit everything.
It's true that these types of "actual combo" type double-snap combos are pretty reliable (and more intuitive to me), but I just recently learned about intentionally uncomboing during double-snaps and repeatedly resetting proration to limit red-life recovery and meter gain, which sounds like the best thing ever. So I'm looking for that.

I'm practicing one now that looks like this:
[whatever into double-snap]
Dash-2LK 5MK j.5MK(2) j.HK(4) j.236MK
[5LP 5HK j.5MK(1) j.5HP] x n

A simple divekick loop to start in case I'm a little far, and the repeating part uncombos after the j.5HP. It LOOKS like pretty efficient damage, but I don't really know anything about anything...

Not that there's anything wrong with 5LP 5HK. Just, compared to Parasoul's abusive [2LK 2HP j.HP] x n string and Cerebella's weird bouncy [2LK 2MP 2HP 623HP] x n string, it looked a little boring, so I wanted to spice it up.
 
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Basically, the more hits, the less efficient it is as a double snap.

Most characters do some kind of launch into hard hitting knockdown, like:

Bella:
2LK 2MP 2HP
[4]6 K > HK
(2MK 2HP > [4]6 K > HK) x N

Fortune:
(2LK 5HK > IAD j.HK) x N

Parasoul:
(2LK 2HP > j.HP) x N

Double:
(2LK 5HK > j214.HK) x N

You get the idea, haha.

With Squigs, we could do something like:

(2LK 5HK xx 236[LP] > ]LP[) x N

I think that would work, DP might work too, 5LP 5HK is just so easy and launch hits pretty hard so it works well
 
Here's a basic question. When do you guys charge stances? After a knockdown, throw or combo sure. What about against peacock when in the neutral game? If they have a projectile, HK hornet bomber/full screen assist they can hit you out of it on reaction.
 
Here's a basic question. When do you guys charge stances? After a knockdown, throw or combo sure. What about against peacock when in the neutral game? If they have a projectile, HK hornet bomber/full screen assist they can hit you out of it on reaction.
I usually charge it after my HP knuckle assist hits/is blocked, or if I just happen to be full screen against a character I can easily charge against.

I also do small bursts of charge quite often, especially in matches like Peacock, Double and the mirror match where you can be quite dead if caught in a held charge.

If they are in the air its usually ok, though.
 
When do you guys charge stances?
This depends on the character, really. Like Tomo said, it's easy to just charge and hop away against some characters (and an especially good idea to charge Silver Chord while fleeing Cerebella), but you can charge mid-combo, as well. Nuuance posted some pretty neat mid-combo charge shenanigans utilizing Parasoul's Napalm Pillar, but you can also do something similar with Draugen Punch into MK+HK Battle Opera, then charge hop forward, Seria Cancel, and continue the combo from the untechable knockdown.

Otherwise, her stance movement is quite a bit faster then her walk and a bit more versatile than her dash, so you can use stance movement to position and charge at the same time, so long as you watch out for those super-flash reversals. In my experience, depending on the matchup, hopping around with a charged Center Stage or Silver Chord makes for a good deterrent against approaching Squigly recklessly, although you always have to look out for things like Peacock's Argus or Double's Clown Car.
 
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what are squigly's matchups?
 
what are squigly's matchups?
That kind of question is reeeally difficult to answer for a relatively new character in a relatively young fighting game with a relatively small community and a relatively recent balance patch, so everyone's going to give you different answers, especially when team composition comes into play.

That being said, in terms of 1-on-1, I tend to have trouble against Filia, Valentine, and Fortune.

Filia constantly harasses Squigly at a weird angle that Squigly can't effectively attack. Squigly can use 5MP preemptively to try and stop the instant airdashing, and can sometimes yoink Filia out of Gregor Samson with Silver Chord, but once Filia is in, she tends to stay in. Filia resets often with j.HP j.HK, so using Daisy Pusher as a reversal is liable to get stuffed, especially during crossover shenanigans, whereas Squigly has to worry constantly about Filia breaking out of pressure with Updo into Samson into full combo.

Valentine is a similar problem to Filia in that she spends most of her time zipping around back and forth in the air and generally being a nuisance to hit. Her aerial scalpel tension is a good reactionary countermeasure against charging and poking, and she likes to use Savage Bypass into Scalpels from outside of Squigly's poking range to fish for counterhits. Besides that, Squigly has to contend with frequent ambiguous crossover shenanigans, which she's ill-equipped to defend against.

Fortune is just... Fortune. She shares the constant pressure and accessible reversals thing with the other two with the added problem of having her head hanging around if Squigly ever thinks about doing something near the ground. For some reason, though, she doesn't seem as difficult to defend against as the other two, if only because she isn't as reliant on crossovers and is thus easier to use Daisy Pusher against.

As for the other girls, I'm hesitant to claim advantage / disadvantage against them, but here are my *current* opinions on them.

Peacock can prevent Squigly from zoning with her superior projectiles, but constantly has to worry about a full-screen jump-in j.HP into Battle Opera. You would think the constant Shadows and Air Georges would discourage this approach, but I still land this all the time against CiscoKid, who might be the best Peacock around. Getting charge is iffy, but having one before Peacock shows up means that you can reactively throw out a Center Stage against HP Bang! or the Georges and use the invulnerable frames of Battle Opera or Daisy Pusher to avoid the projectiles and start shenanigans against the character with the worst reversal options in the game.

Cerebella is hard to comment on because I haven't encountered any good ones, lately, and whenever TJGamer challenges me to a match I'm in the middle of something. So far, though, she's easy to keep out and a charged Silver Chord completely ruins Tumbling Run. Just don't throw around j.HP too often, because it CAN get grabbed by Excellabella or stuffed for a full combo into resets by Devil Horns. And then you'll just be embarassed.

Painwheel seems like she should be a bigger problem than I'm experiencing, but she suffers from the constant threat of Squigly doing Center Stage into Battle Opera. This leads to a rather tense matchup where Squigly and Painwheel spend a lot of time just staying the hell away from each other and fishing for the first hit that leads to the kill, but I think Squigly gets the leg-up in that regard because SBO can put Painwheel into blockstun at any moment, which will either lead to a free mixup because Painwheel's avoiding flying, or an instant combo because Painwheel was flying anyway.

Double -- who? No, I'm serious, after the Cat Heads nerf, I haven't seen a single competent Double anywhere. I'm not much of a theory fighter, either, so no comment.

Parasoul... I've heard some people say that Parasoul is Squigly's worst matchup because she can lock Squigly down with Tears and that she has a stronger lockdown / mixup game, but again, I've yet to match up my Squigs against a good Parasoul, so that's all hearsay at the moment.



And that's what I think so far. Just remember that 1-on-1 impressions don't hold too much water when teams come into play, so your mileage will vary greatly. Also, I haven't been rocking Squigly for nearly as long as the PC guys, so someone more experienced might come along and prove me wrong.
 
Squigly got buffed today in beta. HP Draugen Punch is an actual reversal now. You can only charge the LP/MP versions, but yeah.
 
For matchups....

Well matchups I certainly find really tough:

Parasoul, Fortune, Double, Peacock, Valentine



Matchups that I think are a little disadvantaged or around even:

Fillia (Fillia struggles to play the spacing game with Squig, but once a Fillia is on top of Squig, round over)



Matchups I feel totally fine in:

Cerebella, Paineel




Haven't fought many BBs with Squigs yet.
 
I actually have a lot of trouble against Filia as Squigly. Can't seem to beat out her air normals with j.LK the way I can against most of the cast. I've seen Woofly do s.MP to stuff her IADes but I haven't had any success with that.
 
If Filia is coming at me I jump jab/short or jump back strong.
 
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I've had success versus Filia with j.MP for stuffing her IADs if you're in the air first, and doing the j.MP~j.HP option select is good to push Filia away. And if they're coming in with braindead IADs, a Liver Mortis to the face gets them off.

If they decide to go the ground route, c.LP stuffs several common options (but not everything), and c.HP takes care of everything else besides a well spaced and timed s.HK. Of course stancel these out if whiffed so you're not left open to IADs.
 
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Squigly got buffed today in beta. HP Draugen Punch is an actual reversal now. You can only charge the LP/MP versions, but yeah.
Can someone explain this to me, please?

What's the difference between uncharged and charged HP DP? What does Mike mean when he says the "Seria version is invincible from 1f (during the stance startup part)"?

Is the uncharged HP DP somehow less invincible?
 
Uncharged is the same as before. Charged is invincible from frame 1. (I think)
 
Uncharged is the same as before. Charged is invincible from frame 1. (I think)
Hate to ask, but what exactly was uncharged before? I've never used her DP, so I'm a bit lost.
 
Before this change LP, MP, and HP versions of DP were all the same, uncharged and charged. With this change, uncharged HP DP has the same properties as the others (vulnerable 12f stance startup, 8f of invincibility of which 2 are on active frames) except that it can't be held or canceled out of.

Charged HP DP on the other hand is now is invincible from frame 1 and has 20f of invincibility of which 6 are on active frames, while charged LP and MP have 8 frames of vulnerable stance startup but can be held and canceled out of.
 
It goes through the Dragon's Breath stance first, which means there's 12f of startup before the invincibility.

Val'd.
 
how many frames did it take to get into stance? 14, if i count right. Regardless, the old dp had vulnerable frames while you were getting into stance, so all those frames sucked. With the change, hp dp gets to be invulnerable as it goes through the stance so long as you're charged. Testing it, you're invulnerable from frame 1 instead of having 14 frames of vulnerability
 
Hate to ask, but what exactly was uncharged before? I've never used her DP, so I'm a bit lost.
I can't find frame data, but I believe that both uncharged and charged DPs are invulnerable to varying degrees... but both have to go through the entirely vulnerable 12-frame startup of Dragon's Breath. The uncharged version hits once and they recover in the air, whereas the charged version hits three times into an untechable knockdown.

It sounds to me like the new beta HP Draugen Punch will be an unchargeable true reversal that is invulnerable through the Dragon's Breath transition, leaving LP and MP to be the chargeable version for use in combos. I have no idea what would happen if you charged Dragon's Breath and then did HP Draugen Punch. Can someone enlighten us?

EDIT: Whoops, didn't realize someone already answered. So uncharged HP Draugen Punch is still vulnerable? Yet another reason to charge Dragon's Breath first!
 
Seria HP now just skips Dragon's Breath and goes into the move. You still have to charge it to that point with LP or MP.
 
Seria HP now just skips Dragon's Breath and goes into the move. You still have to charge it to that point with LP or MP.
No, it just makes the stance startup invulnerable too.
 
Wait, does that mean regular HP is a reversal too? I was under the impression that it was only seria.
 
Here are some screenshots:

12 Vulnerable Frames
08 Invincible Frames
0MVrZil.jpg
08 Vulnerable Frames
12 Invincible Frames
aNlpARa.jpg
20 Invincible Frames
SrMwHxq.jpg

EDIT: @Nap1400 no, only Seria version has invincible startup. Uncharged HP is unchanged besides that you can't hold or cancel it.
 
LP/MP = same as before
Uncharged HP = 14f vulnerable startup before invincibility, not cancellable.
Charged HP = startup is entirely invincible, not cancellable. i.e. it's a reversal.
 
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LP/MP = same as before
Uncharged HP = 14f vulnerable startup before invincibility, not cancellable.
Charged HP = startup is entirely invincible, not cancellable. i.e. it's a reversal.
So will these changes be making it to actual game soon? They seem more than reasonable.

Just one question though: why not make all charged (seria) versions invincible? There wouldn't really be a reason not to right? And also what about adding properties to the different strengths kind of like filia? Just curious.
 
So will these changes be making it to actual game soon? They seem more than reasonable

I'm guessing that all the experimental beta changes are being considered for inclusion with the Big Band patch.

For the moment I think its best if the main PC version isn't changed without an accompanying Console patch, and those seem to be a headache to deal with.
 
Just one question though: why not make all charged (seria) versions invincible? There wouldn't really be a reason not to right?
I don't see the point doing that as you currently have versatility with reasonable tradeoffs: LP/MP charged DP allows you to hold and cancel it so you could bait things or w/e, but is vulnerable until you let go; HP charged DP gives you an invincible reversal but you have to commit to it.

Also do you mean getting rid of the old DP entirely, or to have invincibility and cancels with LP/MP? Don't really see the purpose for the former, and the latter might be broken.
 
So will these changes be making it to actual game soon? They seem more than reasonable.

Just one question though: why not make all charged (seria) versions invincible? There wouldn't really be a reason not to right? And also what about adding properties to the different strengths kind of like filia? Just curious.
They already are all invincible after the startup, the difference is that the HP dragon punch is now invincible during the stance part as well
If it was invincible during the stance AND allowed you to cancel out of it, you would basically have invincibility on demand.
 
They already are all invincible after the startup, the difference is that the HP dragon punch is now invincible during the stance part as well
If it was invincible during the stance AND allowed you to cancel out of it, you would basically have invincibility on demand.

Yeah I've seen the kind of stuff that C.Viper can do with with EX-Seismo Feint in SF4, if Squigly could do that without spending meter... it would probably get pretty abusive.
 
I thought about charged DP in general having invincibility, but that'd be hella broken. And with all the new tech I've learned/encountered, adding this to the arsenal would be a bad idea because it's bound to snowball.
 
I didn't really explain myself well but it's ok, I just would like to see this in the game soon
 
Just one question though: why not make all charged (seria) versions invincible? There wouldn't really be a reason not to right?
Because this way you can decide to not do it with L/M and save your charge. In a reversal situation there'd be no reason not to just make them all do the instant invincible DP, but in other spots you may not want it.
This also lets people who get accidental DPs instead of QCT's have a way to not commit.
 
Because this way you can decide to not do it with L/M and save your charge. In a reversal situation there'd be no reason not to just make them all do the instant invincible DP, but in other spots you may not want it.
This also lets people who get accidental DPs instead of QCT's have a way to not commit.
I see what you're saying. I framed the question wrong & when I look back...idk what I was trying to say lol. I agree with commiting/non-committal options.

I think I was curious about the difference between L/M strengths and if there would be any differences.

P.S. Thanks for the response mike I appreciate it

I thought about charged DP in general having invincibility, but that'd be hella broken. And with all the new tech I've learned/encountered, adding this to the arsenal would be a bad idea because it's bound to snowball.
Yeah I feel you.
 
Wait. If you're making HP Draugen Seria different from the other two (in beta, at least), then why not do something similar but different for MP Draugen Seria?
 
Wait. If you're making HP Draugen Seria different from the other two (in beta, at least), then why not do something similar but different for MP Draugen Seria?
My guess would be the effort required. The specific change of "Dragon's Breath stance before HP Draugen Punch Seria is now invulnerable, non-chargeable, and non-stancelable" is likely a change in frame data, which Mike Z said at some point is easy for him to do. Lab Zero's still busy churning out DLC characters, after all.
 
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