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Squigly General: Art of the Daisy Pusher

shoryusatsu999 said:
Wait. If you're making HP Draugen Seria different from the other two (in beta, at least), then why not do something similar but different for MP Draugen Seria?

If you remove the ability to stancel from MP Draugen then you can't use DP+LP+MP as a stancel shortcut (probably). In fact you can't use DP+PP as a stancel shortcut at all.
 
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Jason said:
If you remove the ability to stancel from MP Draugen then you can't use DP+LP+MP as a stancel shortcut (probably). In fact you can't use DP+PP as a stancel shortcut at all.
Yeah I'm not saying make them instant/non-cancellable. Just wondering if LP with send them in the air with a low arc (assist maybe pick them up), then mp strength left alone. Idk
 
I think this is the right place to post this:
8vxkxk.jpg
 
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....why do my posts keep getting deleted

Anyways @PandaGirlBingo you're an idiot lol. Oh and centerstage doesn't work when throwing an opponent away from the real corner
 
I was wondering what kind of mixups people do off a blocked Opera. Every time my Opera gets blocked I end up getting pushblocked away and don't really end up getting any pressure off it.
 
mcpeanuts said:
I was wondering what kind of mixups people do off a blocked Opera. Every time my Opera gets blocked I end up getting pushblocked away and don't really end up getting any pressure off it.
Typically what I do is I'll try to just muscle through the pushblocks. There's thoucally enough blockstun for 2 if you dash the instant it happens.

But if you do manage to get pushblocked, then what I like to do is jump :) jump then H Divick works well. Do a dash jump of course to cover distance. If they block the H Divekick I think you should still be safe provided you did it fast enough.

Another fun thing I need to do more is j.mk. The chain rides for a while and sometimes it throws people off because they're so used to pushblocking the first hit. After the pushblock, use M divekick & startup your block string :)

P.S. Shouldn't this be in the tech thread...?
 
Didn't really seem like a tech question to me. Thanks though.
 
I finally got to try the undead prima donna and I'm liking her a lot so far. I've only been goofing around in Training but, and it might be completely opposite of how she can be best used, I felt Squigly is a good choice for pokes and just general spacing shenanigans. As a Parasoul player, it appeals to my methodology.

As a side note, I'm still struggling to get her special moves right. It might sound very weird but a lot of her attacks just strike me as QCBs instead of QCFs. Must be lingering memories of other games... -_-"

I've already read most of guitalex's guide (still too green to get into the later chapters) and while it was very helpful, I got a few questions:
1 - Assist choices? My initial impression is that she has LOTS of good choices, especially attacks to keep the opponent in place (like f+HP and QCF+LK, though I imagine there must be one, true choice for this function).
2 - Synergy with Parasoul? Which should go first and what assists better complement each other? I might try running the duo at some point. I know the ideal choice is running a trio but I don't consider myself skilled enough to manage it properly so I'd rather have the extra HP and attack power.
3 - Mandatory begging for Squigly beginner tips. (I don't think I'm going to get the hang of Seria Roman Cancels anytime soon so I wonder if she can "work" without 'em...)

Thanks in advance. m(_ _)m
 
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Dunno about the rest, but I believe common assist choices are Sing, Silver Chord, and Drag'n'Bite. Maybe f.HP and c.HP as well. I think almost any one of her specials would be good, though, except for uncharged Draugen Punch.
 
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If you want a lockdown assist for Parasoul, I recommend Drag 'N' Bite. Overheads and lows are cool but I feel the fact that Drag 'N' Bite moves as well as lasting the longest gives it better use overall.

That said, I think Squigly/Parasoul works better with Parasoul in the back. Pillar gives Squigly an easy opportunity to get a stance, and Squigly doesn't exactly do well as an anchor since she burns meter quickly and has a really hard time without an assist.
 
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I will advocate 2HP. It has an amazing hitbox, much better than Drag 'n Bite which tends to be beaten by a lot of things, though its pure lockdown lasts longer.

Being a low is a bonus, though Parasoul probably doesn't abuse that aspect QUITE as much as other characters, overhead + 2HP assist is still a really brutal 50/50, especially if you do it on a crossup.
 
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As far as beginner tips go, the first thing I'd like to mention is that Squigly has a ton of really easy burst baits. If you max out undizzy, end the combo in a knockdown, dash backward just enough, and use c.HP. The range is far enough that either your opponent will completely miss their burst or they'll be forced to eat the damage. If they miss, use Silver Chord (QCF+MK) or super and you can perform an easy BnB into whatever you want to do. If they don't burst, either let them ground tech so undizzy resets or maximize the damage they take with a super.

Other easy resets I've seen:

Air combo into j.HP (air reset)
Launcher into tk Divekick
Launcher into Stancel and dash forward (crossunder and possible air reset if you're fast enough)
Air combo into back jump j.MP->j.MK (burst bait) (this one is a bit tricky)
LK Divekick (Tick throw)
 
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Much obliged for sharing your wisdom. (__)

About assists and as someone who depends (more than I'd like to admit) on Cerecopter lockdown for Parasoul to either over head or j.4LK, I felt like Squigly had a lot of good choices for that type of thing - 2HP, 6HP, 236HP and 236LK. I'm fairly certain that there subtleties to each of them, of course.

As for burst baits...first I need to train these accursed cocktail sausages I call fingers. My dexterity is really terrible... =A=

Those resets are quite interesting. I have to start practicing that sort of things.
There's more to Training Mode than grinding combos, after all...oh! I still need to write down the string examples guitalex provided.:PUN:


....and read the Strategy and Synergy topics. *facepalm at self*
 
I usually run a team of three with Squigs in the back, but lately I've been running Squigly [2HP] / Parasoul [Pillar].

Squigly with Pillar behind her is really ripe for abuse, I tell you. Here're a few of the things I do with it:
  • Start a match, call Pillar, and immediately hop backwards in either stance.
  • Mid-combo you can end in 5HP~HP/2HP/6HP, and call Pillar. The untechable launch of Pillar lasts so long that you can cancel into Stance, hop forward until your charge is full, stancel, and still pick up with 2LK/2MK.
  • End a combo with 5HP~HP/6HP/2HP~stancel, Pillar, 5MP(1)~stancel for an incredibly confusing reset. The first hit of 5MP draws them back towards you. 5MP(1) as a reset is usually seen as a corner crossunder, so having it happen midscreen is a huge surprise.
  • A stunt double into Pillar is a great defensive tool that anyone can use. Parasoul often cancels it into Motor Brigade (236KK) to make it safer, but many characters can jump in response and punish her for it. So if you have the meter to burn, you can Sequel back into Squigly Battle Opera or Daisy Pusher to punish the punish.
Squigly is pretty atypical--her movement is weird, her specials are weird, and her gameplan is weird. You can't play her like any of the other girls. I almost always save her meter for defense: the fastest way to lose with Squigly is by burning all your meter and getting locked down. A mid-combo Daisy Pusher or Battle Opera is only worth about 700-ish damage, whereas a pushblock Battle Opera, anti-air Daisy Pusher, or Stunt Double Pillar will save your life. Of course, if a Blockbuster Sequel combo is going to kill a character, then by all means FINISH HER.

Squigly is pretty popular for her charge / stancel mechanics and the subsequent mixup shenanigans it brings, but try not to fall into the trap of over-emphasizing the importance of keeping a charge. It's okay to do when you have free time, and having a Center Stage or Silver Chord Seria in your pocket will keep your opponent from going nuts on you, but it's also going to draw in all manner of Blockbuster punish attempts if you're always trying to run and charge, and Squigly still has bucketloads of mixups and shenanigans without it. Seria Cancel mixups get pushblocked consistently, and you can get by without them if you don't mind losing out on some combo damage optimization. It's more important to figure out how to confirm her good neutral zone pokes (2LP, 2LK, 2MK, j.LK, and EXTREMELY RARELY j.HP) into full combos, because that's what you're going to be hitting people with most of the time.

Finally, as for Squigly's assist, I go Cremation (2HP) all the way forever. It's a long-lasting low-hitting lockdown assist, which is marvelous enough on its own (lockdown mixups, punishing jump-out attempts, ambiguous two-character high-low resets), but the cream of the cake is that Squigly has an extremely low and pulled-back profile when she does it. You can call assist with Parasoul and dash / jump forward aggressively, and even if your opponent wins the exchange, they'll likely fall into Squigly's 2HP for a full combo. That means you can do all kinds of seemingly reckless stuff that would normally get beaten by chicken-block assist mashing, such as going for anti-air j.Throw against a player who is holding up-back and calling Hornet Bomber or Updo or something. Either you grab them, they out-poke you and fall into the assist, or their assist falls into your assist and you get a few seconds to chase them around without their assist. Drag 'n Bite (236HP) and Arpeggio (236LK) can't even compare to the safety and utility of this thing.

Alright, sorry for the wall of text. Hope there's something useful in there for you guys.
 
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I think you meant 5MP(1) instead of HP for the reset.

Otherwise i agree in that squigly's supers are better used defensively rather than offensively in combos.
 
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Erreip199 said:
I think you meant 5MP(1) instead of HP for the reset.

Otherwise i agree in that squigly's supers are better used defensively rather than offensively in combos.
Shee-oot, I totally did that... *fix*
 
Interesting tactics. Much obliged (once more), Emuchu. m(_ _)m

I'm still too green for roman stancel confirms or even stancels in general, so I've been trying to get the hang of her base arsenal first.

As for her Blockbusters, I tend to put Daisy Pusher into combos because, well, it's the only fancy thing I know how to do with her but I'm certainly seeing the damage is not all that much, even when adding a bit more after it but that is a whole different matter.
Been definitely using SBO for defensive purposes though.

Anyway, according to the latest patch notes it looks like Squigly is finally getting a nice defensive option in the form of invincible Seria Draugen Punch (HP version IIRC).

EDIT: here it is.
http://steamcommunity.com/games/208610/announcements/detail/1657629673473296492
 
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@Balder: Don't worry too much about stancels in the beginning. They're a good tool and lead to great mixup potential, but early on, all you really need to worry about is stanceling 2HP and 6HP on reaction to a block or whiff.

As for her arsenal, most of her special moveset is massively situational. You only really need to know three for general play:
  • Center Stage Seria (236MP): Use this with SBO as a reactionary full-screen punish. You can occasionally tag people by throwing this out randomly, but you shouldn't rely on it too much 'cause people are getting better at push-blocking it and Squigly is really slow about generating meter. It's also for comboing off of midscreen throws without meter and for really mean midscreen double-snaps.
  • Silver Chord (236MK): The non-charged version is useful for comboing off of a max-range 2MK 2HP, but I wouldn't use it outside of that considering how slow it is to recover. The Seria version, though, flies almost full screen very quickly, making it much more useful for long-range punishes. The Seria version will also blow straight through your opponent's assists, so you can catch them if they're being dumb.
  • Fallen Maiden (j.236K): Squigly's approach game outside of silly SBO stuff largely consists of jumping, double-jumping, j.LK, j.MK, the rare j.HP and the Fallen Maiden divekick series. Most people use MK divekicks usually, with LK sprinkled in for grab resets, and HK as the only one that actually hits overhead.
That's IT. Rigor Mortis (236LP) has upper body invulnerability and blows people back for a charge, but it has a long startup. Drag 'n Bite (236HP) is generally outclassed by Arpeggio (236LK). Arpeggio is good in the corner to set up a reset, but gives away your intentions. Tremolo (236HK) gets full-screen punishes, but you can't follow them up or anything. Draugen Punch is a dragon punch with 12f of vulnerable startup. They all have their uses, for example Drag 'n Bite Seria makes for a good grab reset mid-screen, and Draugen Punch can get you a mid-combo charge, but that's the stuff you use to fill in gaps in your gameplay once you've mastered her more universal tools.

Good luck, and let us know how your Squigly exploits go. I'm around if you have any questions.
 
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Actually, for two bars, LV2 Tremolo xx LKHK Opera DHC Horncrush works and gives you a full Big Band combo, sans OTG. Just need to cancel the Tremolo early.

Kind of a gimmick, but looks hilarious.

/e: Works with most rush supers, really, like Republican Car or Gregor Samson. For Gregor, you might need LKMK Opera, for example.
 
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What are the best mixups i can do without an assist after a blocked SBO? H Divekick and j.mk can only do so much before they really stop working. Doing f.hp generally just gets pushblocked and isnt safe if you do it later in the SBO.
 
If your opponent pushblocks your SBO, it's very difficult to maneuver back in without the use of an assist. In all likelihood, you're looking at one good approach, and from a non-ideal range as your opponent mashes pushblock. My usual followup is a dash-in 2LK/2MK, depending on range, sometimes followed by a 6HP if for some reason I'm still in range to do so. 6HP isn't that dangerous to throw out if you're ready to stance cancel it on block/whiff as SBO ends. Other good options, depending on whether or not you can get close enough to try it, are a jump-in j.LK or j.MK (> j.236LK/MK) crossover into a 2LK/Throw setup or an instant overhead j.LP > j.236HK. Another option to think about is dash-in throw, since they're mostly likely mashing PP and not LP+LK. I wouldn't use j.236HK, though, as the startup and cooldown on block are too long and you'll just get pushed out. Don't feel bad if you can't convert a blocked SBO into damage, though--you could always back off and charge your stances or use the SBO as a safe tag-in, instead.

EDIT: Another option is to place the SBO so that it blocks your opponent's ideal approach, rather than trying to place it directly on top of them. For example, use the MK+HK SBO to stop Valentine from harassing you with IAD stuff and dash in while she's hesitant to jump. There are a lot of ways to use a Battle Opera.
 
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I generally just call assist then do some kind of 6HP stancel mixup, but a left/right would work if you do it correctly. Just be careful to time it to avoid pushblock auto guard.
 
Really been struggling with level 1 stancels on squigly. No progress has been made in the past week or so. Any tips?

For context, i switched to stick after about 6 months of pad play.
 
@Dolfinh: Level 1 as in uncharged? Squigly's 5HP~Stancel, 5LP/2LK link isn't too difficult as far as links go, but there are a few things going on that you can look at.

Practice the following sequence at a reduced game speed:

5HP~Stance~Cancel, 5LP

5HP into Stance is a cancel. In order to have enough time for the following link, you have to transition into stance as soon as possible. That means buffering the 236 motion right after you press HP and pressing PP as soon as it connects.

The stancel itself can be performed in a whopping 3 different ways: pressing another button during the stance's startup, pressing two buttons simultaneously after the special move motion, or (with a charge) simply pressing PP or KK on any hit. But since you're specifically practicing uncharged stancels, try both the 236P~PP and the 236PP method and see what you can do more naturally. Make sure Squigly doesn't go all the way into her stance before you cancel it.

Finally, 5HP~Stancel, 5LP is a link. Squigly has to completely finish her stance AND cancel motion before you can hit 5LP, and it can't be buffered. You just have to practice this with the speed lowered and gradually speed it up as you get comfortable with the timing. I personally watch Squigly as she spins out of her stance as my visual queue.

So there you go. Cancel the 5HP as soon as possible, Stancel as soon as possible, and practice the timing of the following link. When you can consistently land the 5LP link, you can transition to using 2LK instead for the better reach, and then practice using the link within your combos. Good luck practicing, and let me know how it goes or if you have any more questions.
 
Emuchu said:
The stancel itself can be performed in a whopping 3 different ways: pressing another button during the stance's startup, pressing two buttons simultaneously after the special move motion, or (with a charge) simply pressing PP or KK on any hit. But since you're specifically practicing uncharged stancels, try both the 236P~PP and the 236PP method and see what you can do more naturally. Make sure Squigly doesn't go all the way into her stance before you cancel it.

There's actually a fourth way which is the one I ended up using most of the time
The stancel will also be performed if you hold any P or K button and then perform the 236P or 236K motion, as long as you don't release the first button before the second

It sounds less convenient, but it basically means you can keep holding the button of the attack you're canceling, and then just make a single-button motion
 
What do you guys think if the command for squiglys overhead was changed to Back Hp from the current Front HP?

Asking because im practising lows into overhead stanceled into low loop and i feel that change would make that sort of thing more consistent, so you dont accidentally get Drag and Bite.
 
Erreip199 said:
What do you guys think if the command for squiglys overhead was changed to Back Hp from the current Front HP?

Asking because im practising lows into overhead stanceled into low loop and i feel that change would make that sort of thing more consistent, so you dont accidentally get Drag and Bite.
That doubles up with block, which I think is probably against the move's design.

You just need to practice it a little, instead of rolling the stick around after a low, let it go to neutral then push forward for the overhead. The other way around I assume you are fine with.
 
Oh ill practice it, im asking mainly because i feel it would be overall better for the character, otherwise i dont mind getting the practice required to do it properly the way it is right now.

As for it being againts the moves design, doesnt parasoul have a back motion overhead?
 
Erreip199 said:
Oh ill practice it, im asking mainly because i feel it would be overall better for the character, otherwise i dont mind getting the practice required to do it properly the way it is right now.

As for it being againts the moves design, doesnt parasoul have a back motion overhead?
Yep, but she is a charge character, that allows her to keep charge while doing an overhead. Squigly doesn't have that problem.
 
Erreip199 said:
What do you guys think if the command for squiglys overhead was changed to Back Hp from the current Front HP?
I'll admit, I still occasionally will get an accidental Drag 'n Bite when I'm going for 2MK 6HP. But it's not a problem as long as I'm paying attention; just have to get the 2 and 6 as distinct directions with a neutral in the middle. Of course, I had practice with Hazama in Blazblue, trying to get 3C 236D without accidentally activating 623D.
 
Ok how would you guys feel if Squigly actually had hitstop on her supers but her lvl 2 sing loses the hitstop properties? Every one having hitstop but squigly (sometimes) can be very painfull.

Also how about if her uncharged tremolo has the tracking properties of the charged one? That way it could be used for a low damage ranged knockdown that can help squigly get a breathing room againts zoning to get a charge and/or close the distance.
 
If level 2 sing loses hit stop, she loses her best reversal option and the game loses the closest thing to Storm's Hailstorm from MvC2 as far as punishing assist calls.

If Tremelo gains tracking at all stance levels, we get a reeeeeeally dangerous zoner. Think about this: Tremelo (at level 1) has about the same startup and recovery as Napalm Shots. The big difference is that Tremelo causes a hard knockdown. If it always tracked, I could just call Tremelos and cancel into SBO on their approach unless the only super jumped forward and blocked.
 
i dunno, i cant see that she would get it but i dont think that it would make her super dangerous at all since you can just jump to avoid it. if you tremelo at the wrong time at any range you are in a really bad spot. you arent always gonna do SBO either since they likely wont be in range for it.

we dealt with HP shadow of impending doom tracking at any point on the screen for a long time and tremelo is nowhere near as good as that move was/still is.
 
I still wish that Squigly had an air divekick super called "Dragon Drill" that hit high and then launched them a la grave digger.

It would be more interesting than her level 3.
 
Dolfinh said:
I still wish that Squigly had an air divekick super called "Dragon Drill" that hit high and then launched them a la grave digger.

It would be more interesting than her level 3.
I know how you feel. My entire team--Parasoul / Cerebella / Squigly--lacks any sort of air reversal option, so it's always super-frustrating that nearly every other character in the cast (sans Peacock) can mash out an unreactable time-freezing aerial blockbuster. I almost exclusively go for crossover/under resets because of those things.
 
Emuchu said:
I know how you feel. My entire team--Parasoul / Cerebella / Squigly--lacks any sort of air reversal option, so it's always super-frustrating that nearly every other character in the cast (sans Peacock) can mash out an unreactable time-freezing aerial blockbuster. I almost exclusively go for crossover/under resets because of those things.
It isn't even about having an air reversal option, I just think it would be a neat thing to have. I have a huge hard on for divekicks in games though, so maybe that's why.
 
Erreip199 said:
Ok how would you guys feel if Squigly actually had hitstop on her supers but her lvl 2 sing loses the hitstop properties? Every one having hitstop but squigly (sometimes) can be very painfull.

Also how about if her uncharged tremolo has the tracking properties of the charged one? That way it could be used for a low damage ranged knockdown that can help squigly get a breathing room againts zoning to get a charge and/or close the distance.
That would kill much of the point of using the Seria versions of sing or tremolo.

I wouldn't mind a homing normal tremolo if the Seria version came out from behind the opponent and moved them towards Squigly, though.
 
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ooo, kinda like testament's thingy. I like that idea.
 
In a 3-team (my mains are :FIL: and :BIG:), which Position is Squigly best on? Point, Middle, or Anchor?

In a team of two, should she be first or second?
 
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