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Squigly Match-Up Thread

cherry blossoms said:
I've honestly never tried it. I simply thought not pushblocking it would lead to a frame trap when I hit the ground or end with me getting low air-thrown. I'll see the frame data with different assists for painwheel and see how plus on block she is after not pushblocking.

not push blocking in the air makes you fall to the ground faster and when you fall to the ground you come out of block stun completely. very useful against characters with multi hit air attacks. I'm still learning what to do when you land but this is also a problem of mine and i didn't know that not push blocking air attacks gave you this option.

Push blocking air attacks is still good in some cases, like all things you just have to know which situation to apply it. For instance you can push block some air attacks, or even a grounded attack if you are in the air, and do a falling attack to hit people, though if they know you are going to do that they can stick out a button before yours comes out.
 
Okay, I'm picking up Squigly as a character for a team I plan to play consistently. I'm having some heavy matchup issues.

1. vs Big Band:
How is Squigly supposed to approach this giant fucker? Unless I'm absolutely on point blank range, it feels like no option is really viable. I'm feeling like the issue is that most of the reliable gap-closers are jumpins, and all of them give Big Band plenty of time to react accordingly. More than it should.
- cymbal exists. and Big Band's joke of j.lk exists aswell. these alone renders squigly unable to challenge anything air-to-air on mid range.
- a hit with j.lk air-to-ground will not combo into M Divekick on most cases (if what I tested is correct, will never convert after hitting a standing big band)
- Big Band's s.lp beats Divekick on a specific range (that one divekick that will barely hit, but still keep you close. that's what you want, right? get close so your mixups are scary?)
Am I supposed to try using j.mk after j.lk on hit to convert? It's not uncommon to whiff the j.mk in these scenarios, which makes it pretty unconsistent from the experience I have.
Is the fact that my gameplan is to get close the whole point of me having problems? Are Squigly players supposed to stay back and wait something? (and give room to the shitstorm of cymbals to happen and depend on using a meter on opera to get a hit?)

2. vs Fukua:
I'm feeling pretty helpess on this one. I'm also trying to get close, but on this one I'm pretty sure that's the way to go. There's no way Squigly can play fullscreen against fireballs and shadows.
- the launcher shadow will cover superjump / doublejump height on most cases. i'm feeling like playing as if fukua is a peacock is not an option because of that.
- everything fukua has is beating me air-to-air. her j.lp beats everything if we're close enough, and j.hk beats everything even before my hitboxes get close.

In general, I'm noticing a pattern:
Big Band has 2 absolutely problematic-to-deal-with buttons: j.lk and c.lp. Both of these are absolutely destroying every shed of hope I have of winning neutral.
Fukua also has 2 buttons like this: j.hk and launcher shadow.

In both cases, if my opponent gets a hit on any of these moves I listed, I'm going to get hit with a full combo. Period. They're all absolutely easy to confirm from and there are visible cases where the full-combo-confirm will often come even an accident.

I know its unfair to make that comparison, but Squigly has a REALLY tough time to convert of weird hits/reads like these. Why can't I have 2 buttons that deal with 80% of what my opponent is going to do?

Maybe it's my team? I'm running:
Double (L Bomber)
Robo Fortune (s.hp)
Squigly (c.hp)

So yeah, I'm almost desperate for help. I reached the point I thought I would never get to: there's not a single thing I can think of to solve these issues. If someone could shed me a light, it will be greatly appreciated!

There's something else I want to talk about, but I'll do it in a different post on a more general board, since it regards other characters aswell.
 
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@noaa Big Band is one of Squigly's harder matchups, his cymbal is very hard to deal with since he displaces himself when activating the move. To deal with cymbals, you need to 1) hit him while he's in his start-up frames so you get a counter hit or 2) block. There are probably more options, but I often use those 2 options against Band. Also, I'd recommend using M Bomber against BB since it has a much higher chance of catching him falling after cymbal allowing double to land easy damage on him. You can play full screen against Band using Seria Tremolo to counter hit Giant step, but once you do it once, the BB will probably try to rush you down. my advice is to abuse the fact that j.lk and j.lp are instead overheads against him and confirm the hit into H Divekick. From there, use Seria Cancels and assists to continually reset and force him to hit the panic button(i.e, Extend, Super, Assist call).

Fukua, I feel, is a pretty even matchup, maybe SLIGHTLY favoring fukua with certain assists. The same thing with BB, you can choose to play fullscreen against her, but it's your disadvantage. You can attempt a Seria Center Stage into SBO, but if the fukua knows about this, they can cancel every one of their normals and specials into BFF, giving them a free counter hit super into combo. My preferred approach to this matchup is to force the Fukua into uncomfortable situations and benefit off their mistakes. So what does that mean? I put myself in a situation where his normals will whiff and M shadow is unsafe. I try to stay at this range and use my assists to punish any aggressive move he makes against my Squigly. Please message or add me on steam if you have anymore questions about these matchups as well as anything Squigly-related

In regard to hit-confirming with Squigly, every air normal can confirm into H Divekick, which falls into a combo. On the ground, if you can chain into s.hp, you can always seria cancel or stanceless cancel into another ground chain, and lead that into Silver chord for more damage. For your assists, I'd run M Bomber on Double and Theonite Beam(H) on Robo Fortune. Also I'd think about running Robo-fortune on point. I hope this helps
 
Noaa stop copying my future team. I hate you. Btw, I will use R. Fortune (Theonite H), Squigs (c.HP) and Double (M Bomber). If you want to know why I'm using with this order/ with these assists call me that I'll explain.

On topic: when I face BB I never do double jumps at close/mid distance because of take the A train. When he leaves the ground I challenge him on the air using j.HP (usually jumping back) because is faster than cymbals and have a good speed/range. When I see that j.HP didn't connect (or was parried) I cancel into L. Divekick to avoid beig caught by beat extend. The situation you must avoid at all costs is being close to him on the ground while he's on the air. His j.LP is a living hell for those that don't have Updo/Pillar and if BB have any assist that hits low, things only goes downhill from there. The problem is when BB is really patient and the match becomes "who will make the first mistake and eat a full combo"

Versus Fukua the best thing you can do is being close and above her. She doesn't have very good reversals and Squigs offense is nuts. It's a struggle to get close to her, but last time I had trouble approaching one it was before the last patch. Now it should be easier.

Sorry guys if I said some nonsense. I'm still not very good, and I'm saying things only based on my own experience.
 
Maybe it's a factor of the Bands I play, but I don't find the match too onerous. You just have to squelch all your instincts on what you think Squigly should be doing.

I play super passive vs Band unless I'm already stuck in and trying to do the stancel blender.

Sit full screen. Stand block a lot. Neutral jump block a lot. If they jump and you're on the ground, start charging a punch. You can't get a full charge, but you can stancel in time to block any cymbals they do. If you're airborne and they jump, double jump forward. You can either falling j.hp to catch them from above if they try a cymbal, or you can just fall to the ground safely blocking. If you're jumping and the Giant Step, try to double jump forward and tagging them with a j.hp. All you want to do is slowly build up a punch charge and get random hits when you can. If you're feeling extra cheeky or have a good read, you can try to catch any Brass or A-train with a Chord or SBO, but better Bands can usually E-Brake to dodge whatever you do. Once you build a punch charge, they basically can't Giant Step or Cymbals anymore.

When you're at about sweep range, you can't really win neutral without a hard read. Too many of Band's buttons just win. You have to either get closer in (so you can s.lp or instant overhead) or move to full screen to go back to the lame stuff. The can always mash out of whatever you do up close, but there's not much anyone can do about that other than read the reversal and block. Thing is, he's still Band, so you have more options to break him open in point blank.
 
I'm with Alexpi. I really don't have a problem fighting Big Band. It is one of my more practiced matchups, however. Cymbal Clash is annoying but I don't think it's a problem in the matchup at all. J.hp works for dealing with it. And once you get in you have all the overhead shenanigans, big band is huge, etc. A-Train is a great tool against Squigly, but that shouldn't make you afraid to jump/double jump. At sweep range yeah, it's not good for you. I usually just hope to catch them out of a jump with c.mk. Squigly's sweep can be fun too.

I honestly can't tell you about Fukua, but I don't have that hard of a time getting a charge in this matchup. Remember you can charge in chunks at a time, you don't have to do it in one go.
 
So I could use some help with the Squigly vs. Fortune/Valentine matchup, basically I've been having a lot of issues fighting characters who can out-maneuver squigly in the air.

Typically I'll go air to air with j.LK>j.MK or j.MP or something but these two in particular, because they've got an airdash and a double jump, it seems really hard to get into a position where I can air-to-air effectively and just end up falling back on j.HP all the time which is not going to work all that well.

I think part of the issue is that I'm not super-jumping enough but overall I feel like these two characters can just choose not to ever engage Squigly in the air except to come at her from above where she doesn't have good options to air-to-air.
 
Jason said:
So I could use some help with the Squigly vs. Fortune/Valentine matchup, basically I've been having a lot of issues fighting characters who can out-maneuver squigly in the air.

Typically I'll go air to air with j.LK>j.MK or j.MP or something but these two in particular, because they've got an airdash and a double jump, it seems really hard to get into a position where I can air-to-air effectively and just end up falling back on j.HP all the time which is not going to work all that well.

I think part of the issue is that I'm not super-jumping enough but overall I feel like these two characters can just choose not to ever engage Squigly in the air except to come at her from above where she doesn't have good options to air-to-air.
As someone who likes to jump around as squigs, you learn to just be more careful against equally jumpy people. jLK or HP xx divekick have been ok options for me defending the space just in front of me. Otherwise, I'd say focus on your charges and pay attention to your oppoennt so you can properly defend against their infamous mixups. With the right timing and reads, you can stuff an IAD fortune (and filia for that matter) with sLP.

but honestly Anti air assists are your best hope. Exellabella, A train, Beat extend, that stuff. In theory, a well timed Mortis could work but that move is too unsafe for me to be comfy throwing it out as an antiair
 
I realize that first post is old, but:
Dolfinh said:
- Isn't fast enough to punish blocked updo into gregor (now and then I can catch her with c.hp chord)
Every character can punish this easily by standing up instead of crouching. You at least get c.LK, if not much better things.
 
Mike_Z said:
I realize that first post is old, but:

Every character can punish this easily by standing up instead of crouching. You at least get c.LK, if not much better things.
Yeah I have gotten much better at fighting filia and figured this out after someone explained it to me. I should probably edit some of that now huh :v
 
Establishing a good ground game with Squigly is super important against people with stronger ground games than yours(looking at you bella). For dealing with IAD Fortune/Filia, the best option is to never be in the situation in the first place (very obvious) but if you are in it, Seria Liver Mortis is a great way to blow up IAD, whether they press a button or empty dash, assist call. If you're nice, you can s.lp anti-air, as other people have said. If you're mad nice, you can s.hk anti-air into mixup, but it's hella slow, so you have to premeditate the IAD before fortune does it. There's a sweet spot, but it's a solid 50/50 between IAD and c.lk it reaches fairly far. I'm a bit too fatigued so I'll stop here before I go off on a tangent. Good luck with your adventures
 
S.mp is not terrible for stuffing IAD's as well. I dunno if I'd say bella's ground game is stronger than squigly's anymore since I got a lot better at that matchup. C.mk in neutral is goat.
 
Yeah, I used to think that matchup was in Bella's favor but the better I get at the game the more I realize Squigly's match-ups are nowhere near as bad as people make them out to be.
 
bella has the grand task of trying to capture squigly. her double jump is the highest in the game iirc and there's not much bella can do except try and push her to the corner. Armored moves are fucked when squigs has meter. i'd say its even or in squigs favor by a slight margin.

Squigly cannot get airgrabbed(easy to avoid) bella's air normals can be beaten out if both take to the air at the same time. c.mk into c.hp in chord is godlike in beta since nothing drops. bella can bitch slap you can convert with j.mp so its a toss up on who can fuck the most with ill timed buttons.
 
Dreamepitaph said:
bella has the grand task of trying to capture squigly. her double jump is the highest in the game iirc and there's not much bella can do except try and push her to the corner. Armored moves are fucked when squigs has meter. i'd say its even or in squigs favor by a slight margin.

Squigly cannot get airgrabbed(easy to avoid) bella's air normals can be beaten out if both take to the air at the same time. c.mk into c.hp in chord is godlike in beta since nothing drops. bella can bitch slap you can convert with j.mp so its a toss up on who can fuck the most with ill timed buttons.
If you're having problems in the air vs Squigly, j.hp will stuff just about everything except Squigly's j.lp and j.lk. As far as having trouble locking her down, I don't really understand that. Bella outranges Squigly on the ground with her normals, so Squigly(by herself, mind you) has no real way of challenging Bella unless she whiffs a normal. Squigly's only real answers to armor are Arpeggio, chord, grave digger, and a well-timed H Divekick. So, Squigly should be trying to come from the air most of the time. When I'm Bella, I typically hide in the pocket where using divekick as Squigly results in some screwed-up tracking and 7/10 times squigly just whiffs the divekick altogether. Also, if you're good with your inputs(and you're mad nice), you can just react Excabella to divekick off audio cue(Don't try this with 200+ ping. It doesn't work Q_Q) Positioning yourself for when she returns to the ground should be the vital point and knowing your command grab ranges helps too. c.lk/MGR range can really punish a Squigly for attempting to upback once she lands.
 
Can't do my ground game when squigly is jumping up and down and all round. Unless i corner her. Its annoying and a task that bella players just do not like doing if squigs is smart with the aforementioned tools
 
s.mp and s.lk are good anti-airs. Also, the hypothetical 1v1 isn't very accurate since most people run teams. Overall, I think the matchup is 5-5, but we all have our perspectives on matchups
 
Just to revive the thread and add to what is posted earlier, IMO there is no reason to look at matchups as solo vs solo exclusively when assists are a huge part of the game.

After a lot more playing and such:

I still think SQ - PW is 5-5.
I think SQ - Bella is a 5-5 or 55-45
Still think SQ - Parasoul is 5-5
SQ - Filia in filia's favor like 45-55
SQ - Double is probably 5-5 or slightly in squigly's favor. Double's only edge is she can H luger j.hp which is annoying, but that's not a huge deal. I think squigs has the advantage on the ground & in the air + can punish luger with Opera's invuln.
Still think SQ - Peacock is 4-6 (it is not any worse, seriously lol)

Still unsure about:

Fortune, Fukua, Big Band, Val, Beo, Robo
 
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Why not tag Robo Fortune players, such as myself, a great Robo player. Anyways I don't know the answer to your question.
 
Woofly plays robo fortune so you have already succeeded at this operation

I don't have much to say about that matchup from Squigly's pov yet, except lkhk sbo can catch robo cat if she gets a bit too happy with the helicopters
 
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I've only played squigly vs robo like once ever so I'd be down to play Dolfinh or whoever to see figure out some stuff for that MU. Also there are other Robo players out there on Beta like mpgame and Heropon and Spark Dude (dunno if people know about him yet) and MMDS. Seperately there's Sonicfox and dmags who are picking her up. Thats all that I remember afaik but that's a bunch y'all can look out for.
 
I don't have enough experience as either character in that matchup to give you a good answer.

My immediate instinct is to say it's in Squigly's favour because Robo sucks, though
 
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The only decent robos from what i played
is heropon and mpgame.

Action hank uses her.

Honestly she needs beat extend more than any of the cast. I dare say its required to even play robo which is a problem to me but this isnt the correct thread
 
All I remember from playing against Robo was she can beam you pretty easy for trying to sing>SBO her.
 
I haven't played against Robo on point, but I've played against Peacock + Robo Fortune Beam assist and it was very frustrating.
 
I only have a little bit of Squigly match-up experince with robo, but I would say it's a 6-4 in robo's favor. Robo can basically just use beams the whole match and squigly's only real option is to use SBO to make a wall and try get in.
 
I'd say without a punch charge, Squigs is not in a good spot against Robo. Light/medium beams can shut down charging pretty easily. If Robo stays zoning, I feel she's in a good spot vs Squigly. Robo doesn't really need to get in on Squigly, but Squigly needs some way to approach Robo if she wants to get anything started.
 
Honest input on where I think Squigly stands in terms of matchups.

I think Squigly loses to most characters. Big Band is probably in her favor, but if it isn't it's probably 5-5.

Painwheel is hard to say. I would probably say that Painwheel wins it before I would say that Squigly does. Might be closer to a 5-5.
 
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Painwheel feels pretty fair. Squigly can win the neutral due to her multi-hit moves, but a lot of her mixups are just not useful against Painwheel. On the flip side, Painwheel gets to be pretty free on her resets.
 
alexpi said:
Painwheel feels pretty fair. Squigly can win the neutral due to her multi-hit moves, but a lot of her mixups are just not useful against Painwheel. On the flip side, Painwheel gets to be pretty free on her resets.

The thing is Painwheel never has to be anywhere near squigly. I've had many matches where I can't even touch her. Painwheel just sits at the top corner of the screen and can jump in for free unless you have beat extend, which I stubbornly don't. If you super jump and double jump painwheel is still above you and j.hp doesn't do much to threaten her. When she's that far and up away you can't catch her with your j.lk>j.mp and if you try your just gonna get whiff punished. If you don't have an anti air assist you'll get jumped on for free. You are both kinda free to each other's resets so theirs that.

I also think Squigly loses most match ups or barely scratches even. Its like Squigly has these buttons that you think are good but you really shouldn't press and just press and just hold down back and let your invincible assist do the work.
 
alexpi said:
Squigly can win the neutral due to her multi-hit moves, but a lot of her mixups are just not useful against Painwheel.
Painwheel has awful ground reversals, that's like a free ticket to go ham on squigly's overhead/low/throw/eatthisdaisypusher vortex. You lose some of the divekick crossunder stuff sure but that's not her strength in her vortex imo.

akindhobo said:
I also think Squigly loses most match ups or barely scratches even. Its like Squigly has these buttons that you think are good but you really shouldn't press and just press and just hold down back and let your invincible assist do the work.
I can tell you right now that if this is how you are going to work squigly neutral you will NEVER breach high level play with her. I leaned on invincible assists so hard for the first year and a half of me playing the game (and my playstyle still leans on them too much now) and good players will punish you for it. Squigly does have some great buttons both in the air and on the ground; you just have to break the fear of using them and be more confident in the decisions you make in neutral.

I'm not saying this to be mean, I'm saying this because you will hold yourself back so much by leaning on your invincible assists for a character's neutral. Reading the rest of your posts is evidence of this; you cite having beat extend as the only way to catch Painwheel in neutral and stop her from jumping in, and I promise you this is not true.


To compile our matchup discussions so far:

Painwheel - Debated, but majority seem to put it slightly in PW's favor or even. Yaya and I are both in favor of it being in Squigly's favor.
Peacock - Agreed to be heavily in Peacock's favor. At least a 6-4. No disputes there.
Bella - Generally agreed to be even or favorable for Squigly. Fuzzy feels it may not be in Squigly's favor.

Still have quite a few characters to tackle.
 
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My problem with mixing up Painwheel is that pretty much all your air resets are out the window. Sometimes I'm convinced that Thresher's hitbox is the entire screen.
 
Unless you guys are playing Elda exclusively, I don't get how you see PW as a losing match up.
 
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