The Annie Patch: Changes and Beta Discussion

Discussion in 'Gameplay General' started by Cattfish, Feb 9, 2021.

  1. Gelato

    Gelato Member

    Location:
    Midwest
    Steam:
    gelatoforsale
    Parasoul
    Double
    Cerebella
    First things first thank you very much to the team for working on updates for the game!

    Subjective feedback from a player point of view


    Please consider adding distinct visual and/or audio effects during PBGC situations to communicate more info to the player.
    • When someone blocks an attack during their pushblock animation, a modified or more emphasized version of the red blocking circle effect could be shown. It would be even more helpful if it also communicated a degree of how late or early in the pushblock animation the attack connected (such as making the effect a bit bigger/louder when it connects late, to indicate the blocking character will be able to reversal very soon).
    • When the actual PBGC window arises at the end of the pushblock animation, another effect could be shown on the blocking players so the player knows they can do longer PBGC and are back to a neutral state. Maybe it could reuse the air recovery spark animation. It could only be shown if an attack was connected during pushblock, and not if they simply push the character away without the opportunity for PBGC.
    I think PBGC is easily the most obtuse, unique mechanic of the game and new players will go a long time without understanding how it works or that it's even an important thing because it's not present in many other fighting games. These changes would clue players in that something important is going on. Also, trying to determine the exact window of when to input a PBGC option during a match feels very inconsistent and I think more communication from the game in this area would make pressing buttons or doing reversals out of blockstun feel more intentional.

    Please also consider giving the person getting hit during small gap air left/right resets more ways to defend against them if they know the timing of the reset, perhaps by giving more characters more options to challenge them or avoid them with movement. I'm referring to setups such as Double jLP jMP jHK, Parasoul jLP jLK jMP, Peacock item drop setups, Bella's 2MK runstop setups, etc. I feel it's a common sentiment that people like SG because it has defense options vs fast mixups, but that's not the case in these situations with most characters. If setup correctly, only characters with air supers or really small double jump or airdash hurtboxes can escape without guessing block against a very fast mixup. This is in contrast to ground resets where everyone has some type of reversal option, or you can reversal tag if you have other characters. The RPS of meaty air crossunders, falling air buttons, and burst baiting / air throwing already exists with 'weaker' resets that have more of a gap. I think it would be more fun, especially for experienced players who know how to set these optimal air reset situations up as much as possible, to shake these situations up a bit. I think the good air setups should still feel strong, but still have that conditioning and risk/reward emphasized and take precedence over forcing a tough guess with no reversal options on every single hit.

    In the same vein, I think giving a 3f reversal buffer for double jumps out of air hitstun would make escaping air resets feel more consistent with the existing movement options.

    Please consider adjusting the speed, active frames, hitboxes, and confirm ability of anti air moves across the cast to feel more reliable against average jumpins. The whiff recovery of them could be adjusted to or maybe extra scaling to compensate. I think this would make the neutral poking game feel a lot more controllable.

    Lastly, please consider adjusting the cancel windows on certain moves that allow the person who would normally eat a punish to attempt to punish the punish, even if they break the normal cancel window rules (like Beowulf chairless 2HP > arm, Band beat extend on assist hit, etc). These strategies have counterplay depending on your character, but it doesn't feel fun when you feel like you baited the move out. Also, I think cancels such as Parasoul pillar > bikes and Fukua drill > fireball super could be toned down (especially on chicken block where its very hard or not possible to punish), even if there's technically still a way to punish those moves. In this game it often feels like a punish on a risky thing is harder than it should be.

    A crucial bug that comes into play often in real matches

    If you input PP during blockstop, but not on the very first frame an attack connects, and if another attack connects before blockstop completes, pushblock won't come out. This can be seen on moves like Valentine jMP and Parasoul's level 3.

    Feature requests

    A training mode option to delay the dummy's pushblock by X number of frames after blocking something, similar to the delay burst option. This would help a lot while testing chains against PBGC.

    An option in lobbies to flag yourself as a spectator, so that if only two people are playing they can rematch as if no one else is in the lobby. This would be very helpful for online tournaments where there are streamers and commentators in the lobby who aren't playing.

    I also think the assist input swap feature brought up earlier would be helpful, because I have definitely found combos that only work when the assist is in a certain slot.
     
    Nuuance, Turvon, Calexe and 5 others like this.
  2. SeaJay

    SeaJay Armor Enthusiast

    Steam:
    https://steamcommunity.com/id/sea_jay
    Painwheel
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    +1. This would be a godlike feature and it would make running online tournaments a lot smoother. If nothing else changes about lobbies I want it to be this.

    edit: Also the lobby host should be able to forcefully mark people as spectators to get things moving along quick. I run events which frequently have full 8-person lobbies of people watching and bantering, so not relying on people being around to set themselves would be good.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2021
    ahegao, PME, Lex and 1 other person like this.
  3. Golbat

    Golbat Active Member

    Location:
    Kansas
    Steam:
    golbat
    Ms. Fortune
    Unknown
    Unknown
    you know what, I deserve to post in one of these threads. I've been playing the game since it came out, I should be able to say something even if I'm bad at the game.

    System:
    increase assist timeout/damage done on 1st hit when hitting an assist. If assists are already in such a good place where high level play just disincentives hitting assist calls, just make them worse.

    System (Crazy):
    On the recommended assists only, the assist takes extra damage. This would be matched to the corresponding special input through custom assist as well. Obviously with a bunch of the cast having more than 2 good assists anyways this isn't a total improvement but hey this is a low-effort forum post.

    Filia:
    Give ground L/M Hairball more unique properties. They have the same startup, recovery, and block recovery as H Hairball so they're basically unusable most of the time, giving them unique properties could make them more desirable to use. Maybe L Hairball launches on hit and M hairball causes sliding knockdown or something, I don't know.

    Gregor Samson: adjust hitboxes so it's more consistent. we all love the random crossup gregor, but we'd also probably be better off if we just knew exactly what would happen when we used it.

    Fenrir Drive: Fenrir Drive hits assists for the duration of the super. This really isn't that important, but it would be nice.

    Ms. Fortune:
    Ditto fullbleeds post and adjust hitstun/hitstop with the head to be more consistent so a chunk of headless fortune play doesn't revolve around guessing games if something will drop or not.

    Cat Slide is now one of Fortune's recommended Assists. Also can call this if Fortune's head-on, why not, probably won't move the needle for her very much.

    Allow her snapback Cat-apult to be used as an assist via special input. does wallsplat hit. this is weird and probably wouldn't even be that useful, but it's there.

    Peacock:
    nerf meter gain

    M Bang: shrink hitbox, increase frame disadvantage on block

    Lonesome Lenny: is a level 2 super, this cost does not go down with being DHC'd. This is already one of the best supers in the game already, so up the cost for it. The bomb countdown/health/shield aspect basically doesn't matter anymore when the super is primarily used in Argus combos or safe DHC, so rebalance the super around those aspects.

    Big Band:
    M/H Train (Assist). is air-blockable on both rising and descending. anybody who uses that assist is using it for the setup time anyways, they shouldn't get to stop the other player from jumping. yeah whatever I'm a scrub, screw you big band's one of the best characters in the game and deserves nerfs.

    Cerebella:
    j. MP: shrink hitboxes

    Grab Bag: increase tech window


    I don't play the game religiously enough to have thoughts right now on the rest of the cast.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2021
  4. Age

    Age Well-Known Member

    Might be a big ask, but adjusting quick match matchmaking so that you can avoid pairing with the person you declined against repeatedly?
     
    ahegao, PME, softie and 2 others like this.
  5. softie

    softie I suk

    Painwheel
    Fukua
    can we get a way to have the training mode recordings to things with AC bursts I'm so tired of being unable to effectively lab around ac burst and acs in general
     
  6. Dhoppler

    Dhoppler Forsaken by grains. Hated by the food industry.

    Location:
    KCK
    Steam:
    dhoppler
    PSN:
    dhoppler
    XBL:
    stormin fiasco
    Peacock
    Ms. Fortune
    Big Band
    No matter how much y'all hate Lenny, it's not worth 2 meters. I'm supposed to spend 2 meter on something I can be combo'd back into and that can delete my assist? Because it's safeish? Get out of here. You want Lenny to be 2 meter then it needs be something that you can't run through, and that can't hit Peacock and her team and has higher base damage.

    As for actual nerfs that would be of help without neutering Peacock
    Show Spoiler

    No meter gain or severe meter gain decrease while Lenny is out
    Bombs no longer cancel into L teleport
    L and M charge shadows don't vacuum on block
    M shadow adds additional scaling to a combo no matter when it's used
    Further increased damage scaling on combos starting with M shadow
    Peacock can't h teleport until the assist is on cooldown
    M and H bombs startup increased to 18 frames each or just revert them back to their old startup
    M bang has no knockback at all on block or has 5 additional recovery frames, and vacuums airborne opponents to the ground on block like fiber upper does



    +1 to Gelato's systems changes
    +1 to labbing AC bursts

    further edits:

    Increase assist lockout when they get hit
    Pause assist timer during supers
    Opponents cannot be combo'd from successful bursts. Put them into soft knockdown states or something.
    Lockout assists for a certain timeframe after alpha counter bursts

    I don't think alpha bursts need to be removed because they're a callout on burst baits and it's a tight enough input that you won't get by just randomly mashing. It's a bet. If alpha bursts absolutely NEED to be nerfed, how about you just simply can't cancel them into supers.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2021
  7. softie

    softie I suk

    Painwheel
    Fukua
    why do burst baits need a call out
    why can't the call-out for a burst bait just be not bursting


    I just think most people would like it if the game had less hard momentum shift windows, and this is the easiest to remove since it was never intended to begin with
     
  8. Sg Hen

    Sg Hen New Member

    I think changing this would make it so you could always PBGC Robo level 3 explosion and I'm not sure if there's another way to try and prevent something from being pushblocked.
     
  9. Dhoppler

    Dhoppler Forsaken by grains. Hated by the food industry.

    Location:
    KCK
    Steam:
    dhoppler
    PSN:
    dhoppler
    XBL:
    stormin fiasco
    Peacock
    Ms. Fortune
    Big Band
    What wasn't intended about BAC? Bursts are essentially just saying your opponent is mashing and BAC is saying you're not. And one of the main complaints about the game is that it's so momentum heavy. Why are momentum shifts a problem now?
     
  10. Liam

    Liam . . . Hidden Variable

    Unknown
    Unknown
    Unknown
    Should bug reports go in this thread? I think it's a bit difficult to keep track of them if they're in here stuffed between a bunch of subjective balance conversations, regardless of whether or not they're deemed to be retroactively be a feature. That said, I made internal notes for the first two here.

    Doesn't even have to be on Skullheart, if someone makes a bug report channel in Discord, or something.

    --

    I think this has to be covered on a case by case basis for now, outside of perhaps a solution that buffers your pushblock input until the next attack arrives, giving you a 1F instant pushblock on the next touch. If someone could make a list of the current offenders, that would be helpful. Similar to my note above, maybe bugs should be separate somewhere else.

    In the current version of Skullgirls you can PB against Robo's Systemic Circuit Breaker explosion, since you can always pushblock on the first frame you're touched. Just mash the input and you'll get it.

    --

    Are you holding HP to prevent Ms. Fortune from hitting the head?
     
    softie likes this.
  11. Triviality

    Triviality Co Meme Lord of the 25 1/2 Century

    Steam:
    Triviality
    PSN:
    d1nonlytb
    XBL:
    AXPVader
    Peacock
    Robo Fortune
    Squigly
    Please give peacock a way to do her Tag-In move as a dedicated special
     
  12. Triviality

    Triviality Co Meme Lord of the 25 1/2 Century

    Steam:
    Triviality
    PSN:
    d1nonlytb
    XBL:
    AXPVader
    Peacock
    Robo Fortune
    Squigly
    Triv Thread (will edit)
    Stagger or splat from Robo medium danger


    edit1:

    If peacock is in kill range with Goodfellas, the stomping animation should just loop into the win screen, similar to beo penguin situation
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2021
  13. thewingit1234

    thewingit1234 i blow myself up and post matches all the time

    Steam:
    thewingit1234
    PSN:
    thewingit1234
    XBL:
    thewingit123
    Peacock
    peacock changes i want
    1. solo v solo changes
      bombs go away between rounds
      peacock doesn't need bombs to give her advantage right as a round starts. or be thrown at disadvantage because she can't use a tool.
      lenny doesn't hit peacock during the kill freeze between rounds
      i won the round why do i have to die because i needed lenny to make a confirm?
    2. lenny changes
      assist no longer build meter during lenny and peacock gets a small or medium meter nerf
      i have yet to see peacock be able to build a full bar by herself zoning. if she has a assist then lenny becomes a problem since she can loop lenny meter forever. so if assist's don't build meter lenny looping is no longer a problem, i will say a slight meter nerf would make it so there is a bit more time between lennys if you have 1 bar. which i feel is fair.
      if for some reason lenny becomes 2 bars. make it egret lenny again and you can't combo peacock if it blows her up. ( don't actually make it 2 bars that would pretty much kill all use of the move)
    3. assist stuff
      remove the assist teleport left right.
      it's super strong and costs nothing. peacock can get something similar with lenny. but thats fair since it costs a whole bar. and needs a extra bar to convert or doing a kinda tricky pick up
      when calling a assist and item drop close to each other item drop gets more scaling.
      this way the vortex is less stupid for people who hate it. but doesn't kill the normal combo damage from getting a item drop by it's self.
    4. miscellaneous changes.
      damage nerf yada yada yada.
      fix the bug where m bang will wall bounce people if peacock is cornered
      if we are nuking clk as a anti air. i vote we turn cmp into her new anti air. since it's slower then clk and has more recovery. just remove some of the green on her arm so it can actually anti air better
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2021
  14. PME

    PME R.I.P. Airdash Cancels

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Steam:
    PME
    PSN:
    PME_SG
    Ms. Fortune
    Robo Fortune
    Robo cannon super on block too I think?
     
  15. Liam

    Liam . . . Hidden Variable

    Unknown
    Unknown
    Unknown
    There's a tug of war for keeping all of the VFX clean, themed, and not cluttering gameplay with a bunch of noise, while still communicating really important mechanics to old and new players alike.

    This kicked off a couple things that I'm exploring right now:

    • Highlighting absolute guard or unblockable protection whenever it happens.
    • Highlighting PBGC windows whenever they happen as long as you actually shaved off blockstun through it.
    • Highlighting when bursts are guaranteed to be safe. (90F passed or you blocked a projectile)
    • Highlighting when you left hitstun so new players (and spectators) understand when the mix happened and when they should have acted.

    Even if a new player doesn't fully understand it, seeing anything happen when these events occur can be a breadcrumb trail that leads to them researching it further or asking questions. I think it's probably a lot easier for a pro to explain what PBGC is when you're showing someone in person if you can point to a visual thing that happens on your character and say "that's when you do it".

    Open to other ideas but I think these four bullet points should hopefully cover all of the critical information.
     
    softie, Gelato, Turvon and 1 other person like this.
  16. Stuff

    Stuff Lore Master Lord of Lore

    Location:
    California
    Steam:
    Stuff | Stuff | Stuff | Stuff
    Painwheel
    Robo Fortune
    Ms. Fortune
    Do those visuals apply to Painwheel's unfly guard cancel? Does she still have that? I realize it's not the most useful thing but it's still in the game, who knows it might be more useful if it was noticeable
     
  17. softie

    softie I suk

    Painwheel
    Fukua
    can Bella not teleport to the ground when she's falling during a knockdown state? just ultra wack ground collision state she has that makes no sense
     
  18. Stuff

    Stuff Lore Master Lord of Lore

    Location:
    California
    Steam:
    Stuff | Stuff | Stuff | Stuff
    Painwheel
    Robo Fortune
    Ms. Fortune
    While we're on Bella, can her hurtbox on hitstun please be taller? 5HP 623LK as fortune is the only character that doesn't work on. I might as well mention it even though I figure that's somewhere on a list y'all have.

    Also does beo have to fall like a heavy? I know he's not heavy, he's just kind of wonky, will all characters have their hurtboxes, collision boxes, and pink diamond thingys reviewed?

    Also also is there any chance iad overheads can be more consistent? Upclose sometimes they don't hit anything [and I don't mean by the opponent low profiling, that's fine, that's strategy] but the purpose of iad-ing something is to overhead so is that something that might get looked over? I realize that there are alternative ways to make an iad overhead always work but does it have to be that way? I figure some simplification there would help players always do what they are intending to do, the problem is that I don't know how something like that would be implemented 'cause bigger hitboxes is a bad idea and changing blue boxes might make more problems than solutions and making characters wider would probably also introduce new problems, but idk I figure I should at least ask. really every fix I can think of feels like it'd produce more problems than solutions
     
  19. Lex

    Lex Skill pending

    Location:
    Scotland, UK
    Steam:
    Lex
    PSN:
    Ilexyellowdog
    Valentine
    Filia
    Double
    Fwiw this also happens vs crouching Squigly (though this rarely comes up while it's really common vs Bella). Also doesn't just apply vs grounded standing Bella, if she's airborne then sHP L Fiber also doesn't work vs her while it works vs everyone else (for example: sHP, H Rekka + H Bypass assist, sHP, L Fiber doesn't work vs Bella or if you try and punish a baited burst with sHP, L Fiber it'll whiff).
     
  20. Gelato

    Gelato Member

    Location:
    Midwest
    Steam:
    gelatoforsale
    Parasoul
    Double
    Cerebella
    The ones I know of:
    Peacock Argus (2nd phase with bullets)
    Parasoul lv3
    Val jMP
    Robo lv3 missiles
    Robo detonation
     
  21. Nuuance

    Nuuance Level 51 Pastrymancer Beginner Mod

    Location:
    Toronto
    Steam:
    Nuuance
    Squigly
    Valentine
    Eliza
    Re-Edited for Simplicity/Practicality:

    I want the game to Evolve & be more fun/strategic, have more identity too.
    Character changes have a feedback loop, facilitating a generous sense of flow, risk/reward & regular play as well without disrupting current combo paths, while opening up new ones too. Enjoy! & try to view as a complete package.


    Eliza: A true risk/reward character. Eliza spends health to take back her turn & gets it back by hunting for opponents in neutral/resets with big-button blood-normals
    A real "player's" character. In traditional risk/reward style, Eliza calls on Sekhmet for hyper armour & in exchange for her blood. To reclaim health, her big-button blood-normals (j.hp, c.mk, s.mp, s.hp, c.hk, [& upper khat special]) inflict 2x damage, absorbing the same amount of health on-hit on neutral/1st hit of a combo. Contrasting often slow slow recovery, she employs blood cancel: cancel any normal visually using blood into each other in any order. Moves canceled out of order damage Eliza as well. Will you make a deal with the devil to gain an advantage, rely on your own fighting prowess...or strike a medium between the two? ~ She Who Mauls.
    • Sekhmet: drains health at a slow rate made recoverable health instead of meter. Sehkmet normals cost chunks of health. if pushed to the limit, will drain to 1 px health, but can no longer use sekhmet. 2x direct damage to sekhmet.
    • Blood Drain: Various moves using blood are given substantial health drain properities performed in neutral/resets, rewarding her inherently strategic, reactive & mixup playstyle. Recovers red health inflicted by opponent as well. (s.mp, c.mk, s.hk~s.hk, c.hp, j.hk, j.hp, j.hk, [upper khat as well]). Blood drain shows a subtle visual to health bar when recovered.
    • Blood Cancel: At cost of health, any blood normal can chain into other blood-normals once per combo stage. Still works with iPS. Allows for more creative/flexible blockstrings, frame trap/opponent baits, mixup & much more combo diversity. (s.mp, s.mk, c.hp, j.mp, j.hp, j.hk, j.mk, c.hk, s.hp). Damage inflicted from canceled normals damage eliza as well.
    • c.hk: hyper armour, recovery 11f, blood normal & special cancelable.
    • taunt: normals dont cost blood next call, blood cancelable
    • s.lp: Moves forward much more per hit.
    • uppher khat: i-frames increased & grab invuln, L Upper Khat faster recovery
    • Air super: Replenishes 20% recoverable health
    • sekhmet super: f1 invincible/startup & Faster fall recovery.
    • Assist Specials: Much Faster Recovery to move directly after deployed
    • sekhmet j.hp: faster fall speed
    • sekhmet recall: faster recall speed & 11f recovery. blood cancelable & super cancelable.

    Squigly
    Show Spoiler
    Squigly: Charges evolved with subtle, yet dynamic playstyles focusing on keeping charge playing around passive effects or cashing out with powered-up specials.
    Will you decide to work with Leviathan to get stronger? -- or just grab the immediate benefits & cashout? Aptly named Dragon's breath powers up flame attacks/specials a tiny bit, but can add up. While serpents tail (k-charge) rewards finding openings & going for broke with gravedigger. Leviathan receives more of a defined sense of life, rewarding her teamwork with her main partner & parasite by giving him energy ~ Let it build.

    • Charges: Now have more interactive effects
      • Dragon's Breath (power): flame normals/specials (including c.lp, j.mp, sf.hp/c.hp, charged DP & One-Inch-punch) 1 second of recoverable burn damage. Cashout inflicts 3 seconds of unrecoverable damage, lose charge.
      • Serpents Tail (strategy): On-hit in neutral/outside combos, successful H-Gravedigger & c.hk grants 1 extra gravedigger per combo.
    • Daisy Pusher: refreshes both charges. DHC window extended to coffin fall.
    • charged chord: keep charge if performed in combo as it's used majority of the time as combo tool.
    • Tag-In: gravestone specifically shadows directly next to opponent. startup/recovery mirror Eiza's. Drag's around slightly faster & sends foe into air on-hit
    • Sing & centerstage: recovery 11frames uncharged. Allows for more combo diversity & style of play w/assists/use in match.
    • arpeggio: remove hurtbox from hitbox
    • tremolo: both versions same startup/activation as arpeggio
    • SBO: small damage buff
    • s.mk: mini-launcher same strength as peacocks mini-launcher for more diverse use/combo-structure. same startup as c.mk,
    • j.mp: faster activation, farther pushback & faster fallspeed
    • H Gravedigger: Faster recovery for more time for mid-air actions against med/heavy foes, hold H for sameside flip. Increases combo diversity.


    Val
    Show Spoiler
    Val: Vials & weird effects are her specialty along with blistering movement.
    Val's always felt the most fun because you could run around & go really fast. Those 2 things are now combined & the player can decide to navigate neutral more &/or focus on distinct vial play. even optionally loadable into scalpels super. Her vials are also now much more fun to throw & would feel like throwing a kunai on reaction, instead youre unleashing special effects giving you more time to be creative with. If damage is your game you can focus on poision vials & use L Bypass to make quick dashes across the screen or engage the opponent. bypass super even can be used to approach using up 1 meter. Complimenting her play, throws can gain & spend vials as well. Lastly, she IS a nurse after all. She can heal with her taunt, giving up neutral for a bit & fully resuscitate fallen comrades if she holds out long enough ~ This is gonna hurt.
    • command throw: on success, level 1 vial load effect before hitting ground. Hold P to select vial during fall.
    • vial throw: qcb+P to completely prevent accidental vial throws, flight 2x faster. encourages more adventurous play
    • vial load: hold P button 15f. 40frames across all levels & faster recovery, biohazard visual contains same-sized hitbox. On-hit, inflicts vial effect. Encourages daring vial loads. Still super cancelable
    • Vials in general: 'noticeably' increase duration a bit for lower strengths
    • taunt: 90f, fast recovery, heal 10% of recoverable health with chocolate. Hold P or K to throw bar & heal teammates (works with animation)
    • L Bypass: 6f recovery in air & ground on hit/block
    • All bypass: useable as movement options, jump cancelable on whiff, not block.
    • checkmate incision: Load vial into scalpels w/qcb+PP (allows you to save vials)
    • Level 3: Level 3 vial load
    • Bypass Super: Safe on block
    • Level 2: forward DP Motion, keeps timing skill needed, but eases execution.
    • Level 5: Bring team member back to full health. Double, BB, Fukua's lvl5 all have bar-ending damage potential. Val gets the same, but in terms of healing.
    • normal throw: qcf+throw performs normal throw, but gases opponent with effect of vial as well. Allow for tag-in combo diversity & creative routes
    • Backdash: allow much faster backdash cancelling. Allows for more fun neutral.


    System Improvements

    Show Spoiler

      • Better Linked Supers: Better DHC Windows & QOL
      • Tag-Ins: Shouldn't be 'bad tag-ins,' only ones punished differently. Encourages team diversity.
      • Assist Options: Button hold, (ie charged squigly assists, painwheel, etc)
      • Hitboxes: More simplifications & visual consistency for certain moves
      • Leaderboard: % of games won in QM rather than # of games played
      • Taunts & c.hk: Feels bad bigband or beowulf have game-changing taunts
      • Skullheart SOLO EX versions: Uber-Powerful Non-healable, (slowly) health draining character. What happens when a skullgirl is born? They're strong af, thats what. Normal solo characters still exist with updated mechanics making them more fun, but now theres a non-healable version with powered up moves/traits.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2021
  22. SeaJay

    SeaJay Armor Enthusiast

    Steam:
    https://steamcommunity.com/id/sea_jay
    Painwheel
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    What you're describing is a huge body of work that would turn the whole game on its head. Realistically it isn't going to happen.

    I think you should steer your expectations for this patch towards small, iterative, and realistic changes, rather than huge character reworks.
     
    softie, keninblack, Lex and 1 other person like this.
  23. Nuuance

    Nuuance Level 51 Pastrymancer Beginner Mod

    Location:
    Toronto
    Steam:
    Nuuance
    Squigly
    Valentine
    Eliza
    im listing what i personally want and think would be good for the game. all im doing. same way others are....or did you say the same thing to them.
    Also yeah a lot of text can be a bit intimidating, but in reality it's just damage or frame/property values changing. thats it. I get not everything can be done, that's cool.
    But it's a copout to me to not take the opportunity to actually freshen up the game & have fun like the 2nd encore update.
    That changed a lot, but no one complained. It's quarantine...pretty sure we have the time. We have unlimited beta, another character is coming & this game has been the same....sameeee for years. Like it's time for something new. im not the only one & when has anything been set in stone for sg ever...

    like we're here in this thread that shouldnt even exist in the first place...just saying
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2021
  24. Pickles

    Pickles VT scene?

    Location:
    Vermont
    Steam:
    Pickles (/id/shamanlord)
    PSN:
    PS_Shamanlord (but I rarely use this for SG)
    Filia
    Double
    Painwheel
    there are a couple things i'd like but the only thing i really feel strongly about is normalizing painwheel's point i am so tired of turning around for no reason please god
     
    softie and acfan like this.
  25. DDB

    DDB The Annie guy

    Steam:
    DDB of the Stars
    PSN:
    DiddyBound
    Unknown
    Ms. Fortune
    Cerebella
    I'm just sayin', everything around Skullgirls' future skyrocketed as soon as they announced playable Annie.
     
  26. LazyBakemono

    LazyBakemono Yeah

    Steam:
    LazyDiablos
    PSN:
    LazyDiablos
    Ms. Fortune
    Eliza
    -General: First and foremost it would be nice if every character and some degree of an anti air normal. It would make the ground game a lot more playable instead of having to rely on easily baitable antiair attempts with dps

    -Peacock:It would be nice if peacocks reversal was actually more easily punishable and if Lenny stopped peacock's meter gain while it was out or something.

    -Eliza:I think Eliza is kinda flawed so for her I suggest the following
    • Really not a fan of sehkmets gameplay design but I dont really know what to do about it besides major overhauls but Im not gonna suggest anything of the sort. But something like holding a button so that she automatically goes back to her body after lady of slaughter would be a decent quality of life change
    • 5mk(2) restanding instead of knocking down would make her combo routes slightly more stable.
    • Throne having red bounce. Throne isnt a very good move imo. The fact that normals can break it makes throwing it out not worth it most of the time. With red bounce she would at least have more consistent reward for throwing it out. Also maybe make it faster?
    • 2HK projectile armor starting earlier. Eliza has a very very hard time against zoners and this move does not help very much in its current state. Even when the move gets to start up, her options after it are generally unsafe so its kinda awkward to use.
    • This is more of a personal thing and I dont know if any other Eliza players want this but Id prefer if upperkhat was a 236 input rather than a 623. It makes it more in line with the most other strike invul moves in the game (sans beat extend but that has crazy hitboxes) and the move can be easier to get out defensively as its hard for eliza to escape pressure because she is huge^2. It would also giver her stronger midscreen presence. Might also make TK upperkhat combos easier?
    • Faster command grab. This change was in one of the betas and I wish it had more time to see how much better she would deal with zoners with it
    -Fortune:I think fortune is in a pretty good place so I wont suggest much besides
    • Head spike assigned to j.214HP only. This one prevent a lot of misinputs and makes it inline with other head moves
    • 2MK anti air normal. Honestly this move has no reason to exist. Fortune never ever has to press this button as other moves do what it does but better and I want all characters to get anti air normals anyway so why not this one
    • Feral edge being more stable. This move still has times where its punishable on hit cause it whiffs behind her.
    -Robo: maybe make M danger strike invul instead. I dont think this character has anything that makes her having a meterless reversal too outlandish and M Danger seems like a good candidate for a move she already has that isnt used much anyway? Also make her Anti Air super have hit stop. its a hard call out that uses meter I think it deserves that at least.

    -Squigly: I dont know what to do for this character besides maybe giving her uncharged versions of her moves even when she has charge and an indicator for which charges she has.

    I havent played in a while so I cant remember what else I'd like for other characters.
     
  27. clawmaster

    clawmaster Active Member

    Location:
    SoCal
    Steam:
    Clawmaster
    Squigly
    Big Band
    So chiming in before the new changes happens when Annie comes out.

    Squigly changes:

    The only minor gripes I have is have it to where if you center stage as squigly in the corner into sbo (going away from the corner), and she has to run in for the conversation after sbo hits since most of the time when you do it, sbo hits and they fall out after a few hits.

    I get hate for this but adjust her hurtboxes so she can properly get hit probably in combos with all the other characters.

    Other stuff Cloud said in his stream what he likes the character to have adjusted or brought back (like Level 3 doesn't go away if you snapped her) I echo the same ideas. There isn't much I would say that needs big fixing for her, shes pretty good on her own. At the same time if you want to buff her, I am not complaining either :).
     
  28. Flotilla

    Flotilla Well-Known Member News Writer

    Big Band
    Big Band
    Big Band
    I don't have much to add since I haven't played SG on the regular in ages, but...
    • I get the "Skullgirls' taunt inputs are references to obtuse special inputs from old fighters" meme, but after 6+ years of playing Big Band and having to cram 6 > HP > MP > LP > 6 into the buffer after every other SSJ I wish the inputs for taunts were slightly simpler, especially for characters like BB and Beo who frequently use them in matches.
    • I vaguely remember that Big Band s.MP trumpet notes used to gain a hit for each blockbuster level Big Band had, but now it seems like they don't hit at all from LVL1-3, hit once on LVL4, and hit 4 times on LVL5. Did this break somewhere along the road, and if so, can it be fixed?
     
  29. Stuff

    Stuff Lore Master Lord of Lore

    Location:
    California
    Steam:
    Stuff | Stuff | Stuff | Stuff
    Painwheel
    Robo Fortune
    Ms. Fortune
    Is there any chance that lag vial values can be lowered?
    Factoring SG's input delay of 3-4f and adding 4f from level 1 lag vial makes it sfv when it came out (8f total) and anything past that (10f and 13f total) is just really really high.
    Also, is there any chance Painwheel's tag can not be techable? Any other tag works fine and I don't understand why Painwheel tag has the caveat.
     
    Turvon likes this.
  30. Nuuance

    Nuuance Level 51 Pastrymancer Beginner Mod

    Location:
    Toronto
    Steam:
    Nuuance
    Squigly
    Valentine
    Eliza
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2021
  31. keninblack

    keninblack NJ/VA Events Mod

    Location:
    Hoboken, NJ
    Parasoul
    Double
    Unknown
    I think the game is in a really solid place, and I'm really positive about the future of it. I don't think incredibly drastic changes are warranted at all.

    General Changes:

    - Burst AC needs to be toned down in some capacity.

    - Normalizing hurtboxes and qol stuff like that across the board would be great. Characters that come to mind with common weird hurtbox stuff I feel is Squigly, Val, Bella.

    - Updating the CSS to have updated meta assists as the 2 presets.

    - Return QM to 3/5 instead of endless, maybe its just me but QM has this weird awkward "what's the set count" dialogue that I would prefer it goes back to the 3/5 format. If everyone thinks this is dumb nvm haha

    - Have an option in lobbies to have you auto ready up without having to press a button every time? This is such a gross nitpick but we're out here



    Parasoul:

    - Let her reverse beat jlp, jmk, jlp/jlk sequence stay at combo stage 2 and not go all the way to 3. I feel like the huge lack of ips immediately forcing the damage of the combo to be so reduced makes it feel like such a whatever tool. I think this would make it more enticing to utilize.

    - have her taunt make her M egret buffed (?) or next called HK Egret is old better version (this is just a silly change I thought of if we're going with a "make everyone have a useful taunt" approach)

    Peacock:

    -No/minimal meter gain when Lenny is out, or whatever else to tone down lenny. I'm sorta against making any super cost more or less I want super values to stay the same personally, just my point of view.

    -In my eyes her ability to have arguably the best neutral in the game (I feel like one of the top neutrals is fair) WHILE also having arguably some of the best average damage output might be a bit much. I'm not saying both need to take nerfs but maybe one or the other? I don't know, Peacock's super interesting.


    Beowulf just normalize the max undizzy stuff, but IF this is done. I'd hope this character receives some buffs for compensation, nothing crazy and I'm clueless on Beo but I feel like that'd be fair. I think a Beo that's just what he is now but just with undizzy stuff being nerfed would be a really weak and unpopular character imo

    Big Band:

    - Scale A Train like Excella
    - Maybe LV3 and LV5 don't need to do that much? Maybe? Its cool if it stays I'm not super against it

    Painwheel:

    -What Pickles said that whole back and forth thing is hnnnggh
    -I feel like she could spare to get some more meter gain on her normals, its really hard for her to build meter right now.
    -H buer being a better anti air would be siick

    Double:

    -Catheads should either have a shorter overall install time or less damage. I think making the dhc 2 bars is unnecessary and wouldn't fix the root problem.
    -If you do Doubles taunt twice (double amount of times you feel me) she gets pre patch lv 5 damage the next time she does. Giiive me thaaat
    -Krystal palette I'm so sorry I'll never forgive goodness gracious


    Please don't buff Fukua or Valentine too much give them qol but oh lord if they get hooked up o my

    I think Robo should be allowed to do a little bit of damage, especially if Peacock gets to.

    That's all I can think of right now wooo UMBRELLA PLS
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2021
    Grunt, Fumako, Turvon and 1 other person like this.
  32. loonieboy9697

    loonieboy9697 The Assassin of Canopy Kingdom

    Steam:
    loonieboy9697
    PSN:
    loonieboy9697
    XBL:
    elyjahcook
    Cerebella
    Beowulf
    Parasoul
    I agree with a lot keninblack mentioned.

    I honestly would like to see more game features rather than gameplay changes at the moment.

    I've managed to get quite a few people into Skullgirls, but they don't really stick around for long because "there's not much in the game to do."
    I would love to see some kind of player profile feature added. A player card of some sort, titles, and what not to aim for. Give something for players to work for and get them to stick around.
    SGM has different Heathbar designs based on the rarity of your character, I think it would be cool if they implemented that into the game somehow.

    Just some slice of life quality changes that most fighting games have that could hold people, especially casuals, to the game longer.
     
  33. Rachel's Husband

    Rachel's Husband Her One and Only

    Location:
    Richardson, Texas
    Steam:
    Rachel's Husband
    PSN:
    Rachels_Husband
    XBL:
    [not applicable]
    Peacock
    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Damn, been a while. I still have my old handle on here even. Grown up a lot. I go by Rachel's Husband now.

    Anyways, balance stuff! I think SG is a game that's fairly balanced as is, but there's a few things that I'd like to see myself, so I'll go ahead and throw my hat in the ring. Here goes...


    EITHER Double's catheads DHC should have half duration OR level 2 installs should cost two meter on incoming and have full duration.
    • I've always thought it was stupid that PW's Hatred Install had half duration while Double's catheads had full duration. I think the reasoning is that if you PB before Double DHCs in, you can punish with a PBGC, but in practice I rarely see that happen, even at high level. I think evening the playing field with PW would make more sense
    Make useless taunts useful!
    • This is less balance, more fun. Some taunts don't do too much in practice (Robo's extra missiles, etc) but some do literally nothing practical (Para's just forcing the "excuse me princess" line, Bella increasing chances of scribble cat, etc). Some are basically essential to playing the character, like Big Band's and Peacock's, so it's just kinda all over the place. I think it'd be fun to give those without a use a use! At the very least let me kill with PW taunt, haha.
    Force scaling on Lenny.
    • This one's a bit funky. I saw someone on here say to give the opponent invuln upon being hit by Lenny, but I think that's a bit too harsh. Instead, forcing it to prorate the combo to a certain extent would let Peacock meter dump instead of just giving her what's essentially a level 2. It would also let her still convert off of Lenny bombs in neutral, or do cool things like do Lenny DHC into Hatred stuff (totally not biased here)! Perhaps it would only affect scaling on supers, much like "super scaling" in DBFZ.
    Add Marie!
    • :)

    Jokes aside, I think it's cool this thread exists with devs looking at it. Excited for the future of SG, whatever that may bring!
     
  34. softie

    softie I suk

    Painwheel
    Fukua
    painwheel post time!


    I think for the most part pw is fine and if she got any gameplay buffs instead of QoL stuff she'd be too strong

    a few things I want to talk about in this post:
    Level 3 interactions (buffered special auto corrects and comboing band)
    l buer whiffing on otg
    meter gain
    awkward flight autocorrect things



    lvl 3:

    Show Spoiler

    painwheel lvl 3 is a worse bella lvl 3 but still very good, it mostly serves as her best ground reversal for painwheel since install DHC >lvl 1, or even just solo on point install first string into full combo, will be doing more damage on most if not all teams/situations. It also shouldn't be a better reversal, she already has one of the only two good 1 bar air reversals so she doesn't need her ground mash to be better.

    level 3 has some QoL issues around comboing after it. one being centered around her becoming actionable while facing the other direction from where the opponent is sent. Due to SG's special input buffer, if you input L buer (optimal pick up off it always) within the 3 frame window of buffering it on first frame actionable, you will get auto corrected into fly, which visually is very jarring and frustrating when it happens.

    On band there are ranges when doing lvl 3 out of the corner (like on reversal) where you have a 2-4 frame window to pick up, with no buffer on the normals, and no good visual que as to when actionable.

    I think cutting pw's endlag on lvl 3 would fix both issues, as is she stands still in her idle pose at the end of lvl 3 unactionable for like 10ish frames, any reduction of lvl 3 ending to make pick ups less frustrating in niche situations (without being so + that she can pick up with OTG, since that would be a big routing buff) would be super appreciated



    Lbuer whiffs

    Show Spoiler

    lbuer whiffing on lights if you do otg light button>Lbuer and dont add any delays is just annoying
    completely avoidable but super annoying that something as simple as otg button to special need character specific timing on a character with already a lot of tight links and character specific timings on routes

    If L buer was just a tiny bit taller it wouldn't be a problem, hitbox doesn't have to match animation to work well it just would be nice if her main combo special wasn't a tiny strip along the ground. If if being able to do 6hk>Lbuer ender consistently would be too much of a damage buff (would be like 100-150 dmg more for every HP you can replace later in the combo) then i'm not sure what the proper way to address L buer's tiny hitbox is.




    meter gain:

    Show Spoiler

    painwheel metergain is fine just stop routing into Lbuer first string every time if you want more meter
    meter gain is directly related to damage scaling and Buers scale to 50% immediately
    for reference i've compiled meter gain off two different starts (front loaded meter gain, full combo meter gain, full combo damage) (very frustrating that skullheart doesn't have table formatting ngl)
    not fully optimal full combos just similar routing after starter, fully midscreen
    2lk 2mk 5hp L buer fly jlk 2mk 5hp L buer:
    35% bar at 85 UD, 53% full combo, 6492 dmg (before super)
    (skipping first L buer and just doing 5hp fly jlk builds like 2-3% more bar)
    2lk 2mk 2hp m nail fly jmk 5hp l buer:
    41% bar at 70 UD, 63% full combo, 6657 dmg before super

    idk if you want bar do the M nail combo its more damage anyway, she only builds like .10 of a bar less than the average cast if you do the better routes

    her meter gain off jmp combo starting is bad tho, but w.e its a big multi hit move thats the trade off for the strengths it has. double has same problem where jhp and throw starter gives bad meter gain



    flight auto-corrects:
    Show Spoiler

    God these are annoying in situations where its ambiguous if the opponent crossed you under
    like, i'm flying forward and see the opponent is going to run under me, i do 6 or 3 or 2jhk and it whiffs but the opponent did cross under before i got the button out so pw had already auto corrected to face opponent on cross under, so when pw player goes for 214 facing original direction they get buer

    its like 90% of the time just on the pw player for not recognizing the situation and theres no actual way to fix it (22 fly shortcut when) and i'm not asking for change its just so tedious



    anyway pw is fine and she doesn't need QoL in the form of her bnb links being more lenient, she just needs some small stuff to make specials more consistent, most of the really obnoxious things are outliers and come up like once every 1k matches, or would just be fixed by L buer hitbox being taller

    please fix this tho its memes



    edit: I dont think install damage is too high but i also dont play pw for install damage as my dmg engine's main goal so w.e, i like tag routes more
    I'd be much more sad if it costs more meter as a safe dhc than if i lose dmg on meter dump
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2021
    Lex, Fumako, dormoxx and 3 others like this.
  35. HASJ

    HASJ New Member

    Steam:
    Dudu7456
    Fukua
    Parasoul
    Big Band
    Online play QOL
    • If the connection fails, at any point, automatically start searching for another match, no interaction required OR allow the accept button to be held.
    • Training mode queue for "ranked" or a 1v1 lobby.
    • A REAL ranking system.
    • A proper replay system.

    Assist Lockout
    • Integration with the counter hit system.
    If hit at anytime, the opponent's assist will flash blue, signalling a counter hit. This counterhit will increase the original duration of the lockout by a certain number of frames, depending on which category of move the assist was hit with:
    Lights add 60f + 120f = 180f
    Mediums add 100f + 120f = 220f
    Specials add 100f + 120f = 220f
    Supers add 100f + 120f = 220f
    Heavies add 150f + 120f = 270f
    Snapbacks add 300f + 300f = 600f
    Reasoning: This would create a new dynamic in the game and create a risk/reward for assist calling. Do you punish Big Band after the H.Brass for an easier time getting in and risk getting blasted by the point character? Right now, this is mostly inexistent since the lockout is so miniscule.​

    Solo ratio
    • Snapbacks cost 50% meter
    Reasoning: With the changes to the lockout system, a more rewarding snap for when you hit an assist outside of the corner.​

    Robo Fortune

    + Danger
    Robo should not be punishable on trades. Give the hits before the last one a soft knockdown property or increase their hitstun.
    Reasoning: Another move which has the vacuum property but keeps the opponent standing is Cerebella's Cerecopter but even on trade, she is safe. The same happens with Ms. Fortune's Cat Scratch Fever.​

    + Light Danger
    Ability to cancel into one of the head drones on hit and cancel into 2HK.
    Reasoning: She already does no damage and I think she should stay that way, however, she should be more opressive in neutral.​

    Strike invincibility
    Reasoning: Cerebella above you and she calls Big Band with H.Brass. What is the point of this move then? It still would not hit characters crouching right next to her so you can't mash it out like a dumbass even after this buff.​

    + Magnet
    If you have a summoned drone, hold medium kick and a mine will be planted, allowing for further combo. Consumes OTG. You can DHC after the head has been planted without exploding it.
    Reasoning: A damage buff.​

    + Medium Danger
    Safe on block AND Two hits of armor OR Sliding knockdown on hit. Gives it usability and allows Robo to confirm from it in the corner, with meter when midscreen, summon one or two heads or get a taunt.
    Reasoning: The move right now is useless. Being safe on block doesn't mean much since it is a multi-hit move and PBGC exists but it would be *something*, I guess. No one is going to risk a throw punish for no reward (unless you have three meters), given that if she reads it wrong, it's pretty much lights out.​

    + Jumping Heavy Punch
    Allow Robo to jump cancel it on whiff after a certain number of frames OR cancel it into Jumping Heavy Kick on hit and on whiff AND allow the momentum, either upwards or downwards, to carry the helicopter.
    Reasoning: It isn't that much of a change, would strengthen her keep away a little bit.​

    + Jumping Heavy Kick
    Increase rising acceleration from normal and double jumps.
    Reasoning: Positioning options instead of floating pointlessly at about super jump height, she would now reach about half the height of Super Jumping Heavy Kick​

    + Standing Medium Punch (held)
    Increase vacuum.
    Reasoning: Quality of life. Would fix inconsistencies where the opponent is in range but not all hits land, changing cancel timings.​

    + Drones
    They can be used successively, like Napalm Toss or Georges but...
    Light can only call ram
    Medium can call mines and rammers
    Heavy can call all three​

    If you press Heavy Kick two or three times after activating the move, you get the respective level of missiles
    Reasoning: They require resources, have incredibly slow startup and Robo is completely stationary when using the move(s).​

    Unable to start the move if you do not have summoned heads
    Reasoning: Quality of life.​

    Medium Drones don't disappear on hit
    Reasoning: WHY do they disappear in the first place when Peacock's projectiles stay?​

    All levels of heavy drones (missiles) have level 3 tracking
    Reasoning: Level 1 and 2 are practically useless. They offer almost no benefits in a neutral situation.​

    - Drones
    If both "All missiles have level 3 tracking" and "Drones can be used successively" are implemented, upon using Heavy and Light drones successively, Robo's forward dash speed is halved unless she cancels it into install super.
    Reasoning: In my mind, this would be too strong for her offense, basically giving her a "free" get in card.​
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2021
  36. softie

    softie I suk

    Painwheel
    Fukua
    don't think robo keep away needs to be stronger

    she just needs slightly more reward when she hits you for trying to stop the keep away
     
  37. HASJ

    HASJ New Member

    Steam:
    Dudu7456
    Fukua
    Parasoul
    Big Band
    Her reward should be small for getting a hit. The game doesn't need another Peacock.
    However, for how risky her gameplan can be, that is where the reward should be at. Getting time to call a drone and using it successfully should be her strongest point, since it is a mechanic that isn't found in any other character.

    Another thing: can someone explain to me why her LEVEL 3 install super after running out does damage to her? If that is gonna stay, she should have a way to cancel the install while not getting hit.
    Spending three meters for a ticking time bomb that FORCES her to rushdown and that she'll die if you are unable to explode next to your opponent is dumb, to say the least.
    Neither Hatred Install or Catheads punish their users, they're level 2 supers and their rewards are much better.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2021
  38. Nuuance

    Nuuance Level 51 Pastrymancer Beginner Mod

    Location:
    Toronto
    Steam:
    Nuuance
    Squigly
    Valentine
    Eliza
    https://www.eventhubs.com/news/2020...trials-or-create-your-own-guide-frozenfacade/

    1) Creating and loading combo trials. already been done w/same engine (thems fighting herds) & so much more future proof as well as very collaborative! Digging through discord trying to find disabled/private videos from people still trying to optimize isn't viable. I might not mind for my main or sub...but after that, and for new players, it makes many not wanna bother. i dont think thats necessary. Imagine being able to keep a library of all vital combos so easily & you can run through them in game? Sick. Can make tech trials as well. Also would be super easy implementing meta optimal combos standard.

    2) the one thing ive thought about most though, for replays, itd be great if there was a feature to select a start & stop replay point w/a button, then directly load that scenario for training mode letting inputs play out as they did & can override inputs for ourselves or training dummy soon as we press buttons. Or can select start/end points, save & keep watching. All it is is input & spacing data. ive narrowed down apart from better AI itself this is the one thing thatd propel sg & fighting games in general to new heights. When asked to label & save, youd get a graphical layout like tutorial mode (chalkboard with each character icon you select, label & save or load. simple).

    I promise this would be one of the most loved features in game
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2021
  39. Triviality

    Triviality Co Meme Lord of the 25 1/2 Century

    Steam:
    Triviality
    PSN:
    d1nonlytb
    XBL:
    AXPVader
    Peacock
    Robo Fortune
    Squigly
    Throne of Isis should come from the opposite side of the screen

    Some of the things people are suggesting in this thread seem like a bit much the game is in a good state we really only need some characters to be lifted up (and not by much) and the more visual clarity stuff liam suggested

    And ugh nerf lenny I guess
     
    keninblack and Lex like this.
  40. Triviality

    Triviality Co Meme Lord of the 25 1/2 Century

    Steam:
    Triviality
    PSN:
    d1nonlytb
    XBL:
    AXPVader
    Peacock
    Robo Fortune
    Squigly
    Best alpha counter in the game, free tag if you hit a beam, Dash jump rising J.HK literally gets in on any character LEVEL 3 is fine but I totally welcome more buffs

    Also she has a sweep into launcher that shits broken lmao
     

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