The Gap, the Plateau, and the Eternal 2nd tier Player

Discussion in 'Training Diaries' started by Dhoppler, Mar 28, 2016.

  1. Dhoppler

    Dhoppler Forsaken by grains. Hated by the food industry.

    Location:
    KCK
    Steam:
    dhoppler
    PSN:
    dhoppler
    XBL:
    stormin fiasco
    Peacock
    Ms. Fortune
    Big Band
    They say sharing is caring so I guess it's high time I started sharing my struggles as a player.

    I have habits. I can barely keep track of them, let alone break them.

    I lack a game plan with any of my characters. At best, I might react to certain situations with a character deliberately. But generally I have nothing but knee jerk reactions that clearly make me predictable and easy to manipulate.

    I'm also bad at seeing through other people's game plan it would seem.

    I'm terrible at training mode. I know the basics about setting up situations and practicing my response to them. But it doesn't change the fact that I screw up all the time in game, even if I should be familiar enough with something to make the right choice.

    Even with training mode, my execution is spotty.

    I've been running Peacok/Fortune/Big Band for a long time. I then switched to Fortune/Peacock/ Big Band. These two teams were ok (read: ass). So I've finally began the journey of expanding my horizons. My new teams are now

    Big Band/Peacock

    Fortune/Fukua/Eliza

    Beowulf/Robo/Eliza, this was my 2nd squad but I never used it. Now it's my third and it sees a bit more play.

    It's easy enough to observe and analyze other matches but the trouble I have is applying that to my game play. I seem to be trapped in a an infinite vortex of general knowledge where nuance and detailed understanding continues to elude me.

    I always fall just short of making it out of pools at majors with only one exception. So I figure it's high time I set some goals for myself.


    Goals:

    1. Identify and correct detrimental habits.
    I'm sure this will be a never ending process as I continue to play, but it's important to always take note of.

    2. Master 3 or more bnbs with each character I play. From each bnb, determine each reset point.
    Honestly, the amount of things I can do with my characters is frighteningly small. Embarrassing really.
    I quit working on headless stuff halfway through. It's high time I finished the skippy video.

    3. Hit confirms.
    When I'm pressuring the opponent, from common stray hits/throws, and max range confirms during the neutral game. From each situation I need to be aware of what combos they lead to and what resets they lead to.

    4. Air tight resets. Burst baits. The characters to use each one on.

    5. Max damage combos.
    For each individual character. Tacking on extra damage with assists in combos. Team specific combos I can do for more damage.

    6. Team specific set ups.
    Whether it's oki, resets, or pressure.

    7. Technical skills.
    Always polish my ability to pbgc. Always know how to move my characters as fast as possible and cancel my movements as I need to .

    8. Expand my knowledge on every single character in the game.
    This is self explanatory really. I need a broader knowledge base to be able to fight everybody including knowing how to pbgc popular block strings. That way it's easier to zero in on things that are throwing me for a loop and know how to respond to whatever situation I find myself in. Failing this I need to know how to avoid undesirable situations where I'm stuck in a guessing game.

    8. Use this knowledge to craft a plan at each range of the game in every match up.
    I need to consciously be aware of how I need to move, but not so caught up on that that I miss opportunities.
     
  2. Dhoppler

    Dhoppler Forsaken by grains. Hated by the food industry.

    Location:
    KCK
    Steam:
    dhoppler
    PSN:
    dhoppler
    XBL:
    stormin fiasco
    Peacock
    Ms. Fortune
    Big Band
    Alright. It's been a week. I actually was ready to make an entry on Tuesday, but I was tired then real life happened, then I got sick. Details. On to what this thread is about.


    Earlier in the week I played @FuLLBLeeD and made some notes. This is how it played out.

    General:

    My PBGC game was not on point. It continues to need more practice. This is as of Tuesday. Last night, I could pbgc into getting hit...so that needs more work.


    -I needed to be more prepared to alpha counter and to use proper timing when doing so as of Tuesday. I made one effective use of alpha counter last night. But I wasn't really in any situation that actually warranted it. Or at least I wasn't with my Band/Cock team. With my other teams, I actually don't have assists that would help in an AC situation. Well, that's not true. I just play all my reversal assist characters on point until they generally die or they're so close to death I don't want to put them back out there. So...I need to either kill more effectively with Fortune/Beowulf/Big Band, or I need to find more effective ways of getting them out early since all of my teams are now solid enough to support any character on point.


    -My posture tends to be really bad when I'm playing. It makes inputs more difficult than they need to be. Specifically with Fortune when on P1 side. A lot of chairs aren't well suited for holding a stick comfortably it would seem so I'll have to make it a point to sit up straight or find another way to sit so I can compensate. This not only affects me during combos, but during blocking where I make a conscious decision to to switch a to a neutral block but I'm only slightly higher on the box, so I still get DB. It's awful.

    -I need to do a better job of noticing and logging habits so I can consciously exploit them in real time. I spend too many sets reading jump ins that I put a stop to 3 games ago. I never transition my pressure into anti push block strings at the right moment. I never make note of when my opponent is push blocking so I can open them up on the first or second attempt. I'm spending way too much time in the neutral as a result and losing way too many advantages when I attempt to reset. Opponents live too long and that loses me games.


    Characters:

    Big Band
    -I actually need effective push block pressure with him the most. George is too good for him to get pushed out for free the way he does when I'm playing him. I either need to command grab before the push block or e break back in during push blocks if my opponent push blocks a light attack. I can either low/throw after this so it's important. Fishing for counter hits will only get me so far. Once my opponent is scared of my buttons my game plan needs to shift.

    -pbgc BE. Light brass doesn't help me mid block string. SSJ doesn't help me after I've given up. I need BE so super freeze doesn't clue people in to stop pushing buttons. Especially when I'm push blocking lights. I shouldn't even be doing pbgc unless they're doing full strings.

    - My confirms are the worst with him by far. I need to hit cr.lk confirms. So I'll have to think up some chains I want to do specifically during block that I can transition into a combo on hit.

    - I need to commit beat extend combos to memory instead of doing ineffective resets soon afterwards.


    Peacock
    - Learn the SSJ to Lenny combo

    -Continue practice on set play and learn to confirm into it more often

    -My mid screen awareness and decision making is improving

    - Need to learn better Peacock only patterns. I know I can't keep people at bay forever anymore, but I should at least be able to get off two volleys.


    Fortune
    -Fiber loop bnbs need more practice. I've known this combo too long to be dropping it. Guess that's where the posture thing comes in.
    -Big Band combo needs work. I haven't been using it when I know I should.
    -Improve corner pressure.
    -My confirms improved over the week once I remembered to use cr.lk > cr.mp to start pressure. Now I just need to remember to call Fukua and fiber back in when push blocked.
    -cross up j.lp > el gato needs work. Everything concerning el gato needs work. Why am I so bad at using that move at jump height or minimum air dash height?
    -Headless has fallen off. Improve literally everything I can about it.


    Fukua
    -My zoning improved over the week
    -My footsies are trash with her.
    -I need to learn a real bnb. The sage vortex is nice and all, and I have gotten better at it, but I still need to round out the character.
    -I need to confirm off of normal attacks better.
    -I need to learn the slide under reset.
    -If I'm resetting with s.hp I need to be ready to cancel into a special if it's blocked. I'm also probably better off resetting with cr.mp.


    Eliza
    -I need corner pressure.
    -I need to learn her other bnbs
    -I need to learn actual resets with her and not the jank stuff I use.


    Beowulf
    -resets are great. Am I actually doing set play with this guy or no?
    -I need to learn the timing for tag > super
    -High time I learned a real bnb to go with all of my resets.

    Robo Fortune
    -I need to tighten up my bnb with her
    - I need to use the slide under reset with her and Eliza more often
    -I need to learn other resets
    -I need to learn the tenets of zoning with her.


    On my first squad. Big Band needs the most improvement, but I also need to improve on the solo peacock front.

    On my second squad, Fukua needs the most help followed by Eliza (even tho she wins me the most games). Fortune really just needs to be tightened up, but since she's on point I'll work on her after Fukua improves to a basic level.

    Beowulf needs kill combos. Robo needs surprisingly less help than I thought once I learned the bnb I just need to finish it more now.
     
  3. CaioLugon

    CaioLugon It's an alpaca Gameplay Mod

    Location:
    Brazil
    Steam:
    CaioLugon
    PSN:
    O3366-2020O
    Ms. Fortune
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    Are you sure you wanna focus on this many characters? I'd go crazy with this...
     
  4. Dhoppler

    Dhoppler Forsaken by grains. Hated by the food industry.

    Location:
    KCK
    Steam:
    dhoppler
    PSN:
    dhoppler
    XBL:
    stormin fiasco
    Peacock
    Ms. Fortune
    Big Band
    The thing that matters are the first five. Since I'm only learning 2 new characters out of those, it's fine. At this point each new thing I learn helps me immensely.
     
  5. mcpeanuts

    mcpeanuts Anchor Peacock is the future

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Steam:
    may_contain_peanuts
    Double
    Big Band
    Peacock
    Be sure you're doing M or H Beat Extend when you go for this so that you don't get hit during L Beat Extend's 2 vulnerable startup frames. Probably M Beat Extend since it's faster and is also (iirc) the only Beat Extend where the invincibility frames overlap the active frames.

    You can hit confirm c.LK c.MK into a combo on hit or chain into sweep on block. Easier if you delay the c.MK a bit; you can delay it slightly and have it still combo. If you're Australian you can hit confirm the c.LK by itself, but we can't all be lucky enough to be from Australia.

    This shit's hard. But if you play this duo, especially in this order, you need to be able to do it. (It's one of the things I don't miss about playing the duo.) It's not hard to get a confirm at all, but hitting them into Lenny without spending a third bar is pretty tough. I think it was something like

    SSJ DHC Lenny,
    s.HP xx H teleport,
    c.LP s.MK,
    j.MP j.HP ADC,
    j.LP j.MP,
    s.MP s.HK xx H Bang

    You want to delay the H Bang shots as much as possible, and in general just delay each hit as much as you can. This is easier on some characters but I don't remember which ones.
     
    Dhoppler likes this.
  6. Zephyrel

    Zephyrel Hmph.

    Location:
    Kansas City, Missouri
    Steam:
    Zephyreles
    Peacock
    Big Band
    Cerebella
    I agree with CaioLugon's sentiment and think you should more narrowly focus on those you play the most and cleaning them up first, rather than spread your butter too thin over so many characters. You can do everything you need to win and can win aplenty with Big Band, Peacock, and Fortune/Headless Fortune alone in all sorts of team orders/combinations and with different setups. Why spread so thin?

    As far as game plan goes, I do see that you've taken a recent liking to Big Band Peacock in that order for reasons I can't fathom cause Big Band point's kinda bad in comparison to, well, literally anyone else, but Peacock anchor does have a safe DHC. If you must play it in this order, I suppose, but I feel that Peacock can play every matchup about fine or better and can do alot more on point than on anchor, while Big Band is a much finer anchor.

    Gameplans: In every gameplan I have, I want to put out the most appropriate point character who can do as much damage as possible before having to set up for a tag out or DHC. I'll DHC for two situations only, and that is to either kill, or to get a character out and let them heal up so I can put out a character with a fresh health bar out. If it's for a kill but my original point is fine on life or the matchup isn't as good with my new point I'll tag them back out. That's the base. Then the rest of it is adaptation to player style and character. For example, if Squigly's out, I know to watch out for her trying to stance charge at all times and to try completely denying her that through Peacock's zoning or just being up close and a nuisance and trying to assert dominance, and keep her at least at arms length away unless I want to be in there putting on an up close offense. I know I can punish her aerials with correctly spaced aerials and can catch jHP with AA moves, like Beat Extend and Excella, and up close with dominance, and especially in the corner, she can be an incredible threat if not prepared enough to defend. Constantly think about and pay attention to a character and their options. Stance charging and situations like where you can get punished by Sing lvl2 into Daisy or Opera and then put in a corner, etc.

    As for habits, I can't say anything, at least certainly not now. I'd have to review footage or play a set with you sometime and neither of those things are going to happen soon.
    I also posted my own ToDo list on my diary for later, and I'm not even done with it. There's some ideas that may help you, however.

    There's general things to work on, which you've all listed, and then there's Matchup Specific stuff, which you don't have listed. Gameplan is tied in with Matchup Specific moreso than general and what gets the other character killed while you get to keep as much health as possible. What matchup specific problems do you have?
     
  7. Dhoppler

    Dhoppler Forsaken by grains. Hated by the food industry.

    Location:
    KCK
    Steam:
    dhoppler
    PSN:
    dhoppler
    XBL:
    stormin fiasco
    Peacock
    Ms. Fortune
    Big Band
    I haven't been writing for awhile now. This type of thing is new to me. Some things of note:

    I learned the SSJ Lenny DHC combo. Actually before @mcpeanuts posted it for me. (thanks anyways sempai)
    I have matches to upload that I'll be asking for feedback on later they include rare victories against @cloudKing211 and @Outlaw_Spike, a couple of thrashings from @DawnHibiki, a set with @joshb911, and a run in with @Lawnba.


    For now:

    All the progress I thought I was making with Big Band and Peacock didn't amount to much at Maxout vs @Fuzzy_Snugs. Any help would be appreciated. Maybe I @Duckator would be willing to do a match analysis if he's still doing that series. My next post will be the uploads of the matches I mentioned. I'll try to get around to taking notes after taking care of my business for the day.

     
  8. Duckator

    Duckator Well-Known Member Evo Champ '12 & '13

    Steam:
    steamcommunity.com/id/byab/
    PSN:
    Duckator
    Post it in the thread and I'll go over it. That goes to @akindhobo and anyone else too.
     
  9. akindhobo

    akindhobo derp

    Location:
    Belize
    Steam:
    a_kind_hobo
    Squigly
    Eliza
    omw... after finals soon.
     
  10. Mike_Z

    Mike_Z Defender of the Night Lab Zero

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Steam:
    labzero_mike
    PSN:
    MikeZWasTaken
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    Peacock
    - You teched backward into the corner every time you had an opportunity to tech, except once where you just didn't tech. Forward techs exist!
    - You dropped every Big Band conversion/combo in the entire set, after the point at which the conversion was solid, and all Fortune combos except one. Work on your consistency doing combos you know.
    - Peacock bomb assist lost to Double s.HP pretty much every time with no punish from you. Look at options here.
    [edit]
    - Having the team in BB/PE order means that when BB dies, you are left with solo Peacock. Since that's a bad thing, spend your meter on SSJ->Lenny to get Band OUT so he doesn't die!
     
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  11. Dhoppler

    Dhoppler Forsaken by grains. Hated by the food industry.

    Location:
    KCK
    Steam:
    dhoppler
    PSN:
    dhoppler
    XBL:
    stormin fiasco
    Peacock
    Ms. Fortune
    Big Band
    Got another few sets in with Outlaw_Spike tonight. Won 2, lost 2. I ran into him during quick match and it escalated from there, so I didn't record. The good news, I'm more reliably playing BB/PC like the wall I envisioned them as. Towards the end I wasn't precise enough to keep it up. It's all good tho. The problem is my Fortune team. I guess I can spend a little time away from Big Band and Peacock to shore up Fukua and Eliza now. Fortune combos started off consistent and then went off the deep end. But at least now I can zone a bit with Fukua.

    But moving on. I was supposed to post these yesterday.

    vs @cloudKing211
    Show Spoiler



    vs @DawnHibiki (help me)
    Show Spoiler





    vs @Outlaw_Spike
    Show Spoiler




    vs DawnHIbiki again (no for real tho, help me)
    Show Spoiler



    vs @joshb911
    Show Spoiler



    vs @Lawnba (I require assistance)
    Show Spoiler
     
  12. mcpeanuts

    mcpeanuts Anchor Peacock is the future

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Steam:
    may_contain_peanuts
    Double
    Big Band
    Peacock
    I agree with Mike's points regarding your games vs Fuzzy but I wanted to expand on them:
    A few of the combos you dropped and what you could have done differently:

    At around 3:28 you hit Double while she's airborne and the j.HP in your combo whiffs. To be honest this is kind of a flukey thing, I had trouble even reproducing it in training mode. Even so you can mitigate the risk of this kind of thing happening in two ways:
    1) Delay each hit in your ground string so that your opponent completely restands (it's a good idea to be in the habit of delaying the first two hits anyways since it makes hit confirms easier (oh hey I said that in my last post in this thread))
    2) If you're ever not sure if the combo is going to work, you can omit the j.HP and go straight into j.HK. Sometimes this makes the wallbounce hit weird but it usually doesn't.

    From around 5:42 to 5:46... lmao what is even happening here. Okay so if you don't need optimized damage and you just want to get the kill, there's a few things you can do that I find more consistent than the normal bnb with Big Band assist:
    -replace the c.HP s.HK part with just s.HP
    -after Beat Extend hits, you don't have to charge an item then jump and do stuff, you can wait for them to drop and s.LP into ground string into Argus, or if you wanna be really sure just raw Argus.

    At 33:16 this is actually a nice save after you realized you already used your OTG. But... you should try to realize earlier you already used your OTG and go into the OTGless combo (s.HP > j.MP j.MK > s.LP s.MK > etc). Also what were you doing using H Giant Step that close to them anyways?

    At 33:46 even though you accidentally did s.MK instead of c.MK, you could have gotten the A-Train to connect if Squigly hadn't been airborne. I wouldn't do j.MPes in this combo, I would recommend either j.MK for more consistent restands or j.MKx2 fastfall for more damage. I do the first one but your call. Also you probably shouldn't have tried to finish the combo here anyways cause Squigly wasn't gonna die, you should have done some kind of reset.

    Ok so at 34:06 what uh, what is going on here. Is this a drop? If I had to guess, you're trying to reset low and use the invincibility of H Beat Extend to go through Upper Khat just in case Fuzzy tried to mash that out. Uh if that's what you're going for I can't recommend trying this at all, you die if you're wrong (which is what happens). If you think she's gonna DP just grab her.

    At 34:15 I am guessing you were trying to Emergency Brake starting with HK A-Train but you messed it up and got raw s.HK. If so I don't have a lot of advice more specific than just practice it. Well I have one piece of advice I guess. If you don't have charge or if you're not sure if you have charge or not, you can do M Giant Step which works on everyone and is a much easier (but less optimal) conversion.

    At 35:14, you actually don't drop this combo and you get a kill on a character. Nice work. However I'd recommend learning the max undizzy corner combo with Big Band since you didn't need to spend a bar here and you could have kept Fuzzy in the corner. You always get two chains, and A-Train is free since it's a hitgrab, so no matter what you're at for undizzy you can always do

    (throw or c.LK) c.MPx2 s.HK xx M Brass Knuckles,
    c.LP c.LK c.MPx2 s.HK xx H Beat Extend,
    M A-Train xx Super Sonic Jazz

    It's actually more damage if you do c.LP instead of c.LPx2, surprisingly. But it doesn't really matter.

    Try calling Peacock from further away. A lot of the time Fuzzy didn't even have to dash to get his s.HP punish. From full screen, dash s.HP doesn't even reach your assist, so that should be totally safe.

    If you have to call Peacock close enough that Fuzzy can s.HP or dash s.HP, you might be able to predict it and Beat Extend to grab his limb. It's a risk but if you do it from far enough away that it's just grabbing the limb, it's not an easy punish. At the very least, don't call Peacock and simultaneously do something with Big Band that would lose to Double s.HP. He's watching for you to call it and is reacting with the s.HP, you have to be aware that after Peacock there's gonna be a s.HP.

    I wanna emphasize this cause it's so important. If you have two bars and Big Band is even sort of in trouble, mash that shit out . Don't worry if it's obvious or if it's gonna get blocked since the DHC is safe and they're gonna be hesitant to pressure you after since there's a big fuckin bomb right there. You cannot let it come down to solo Peacock vs a whole team.

    Something you should look into is Timpani to Lenny DHCs. Even if the Timpani hits, you may want to DHC to switch your team order. Actually this is relevant to my interests too so I'm gonna look into it and see if I can come up with anything.

    Additionally: look at your opponent's meter and health and be aware that they also have the option of safe DHCs. You were pressuring Fuzzy at times where he had like, a damaged point Double and Squigly next and two bars. Of course he's gonna turn into a car, why wouldn't he.

    Other things:
    -Absolute guard is good, please use it
    -Snapback is a way more consistent punish on Sekhmet than grabs, I'd basically always recommend a snap punish unless you have no bar
    -Learn how to PBGC Double c.LK s.MKx2 cause this shit is not safe and Fuzzy uses it for confirms
    -When L Bomb is on the screen, you can kind of M A-Train for free as long as the bomb is between you and your opponent. Give it a shot (use from ranges where M A-Train will connect if they do jump, obv). Watch Beamsprouts's matches, he does this all the time.
     
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  13. Dhoppler

    Dhoppler Forsaken by grains. Hated by the food industry.

    Location:
    KCK
    Steam:
    dhoppler
    PSN:
    dhoppler
    XBL:
    stormin fiasco
    Peacock
    Ms. Fortune
    Big Band
    So it's key I practice on ps4 from now on. I could tell by my play today that I wouldn't have been likely to beat fuzzy. Is the difference really that much between pc and ps4?

    Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
     
  14. Cadenza

    Cadenza Documentation Expert

    Steam:
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/moon_cadenza
    Parasoul
    Filia
    Double
    Not to me at all. I felt right at home. Only difference i could feel was from certain parasoul links
     
  15. Dhoppler

    Dhoppler Forsaken by grains. Hated by the food industry.

    Location:
    KCK
    Steam:
    dhoppler
    PSN:
    dhoppler
    XBL:
    stormin fiasco
    Peacock
    Ms. Fortune
    Big Band
    Wouldn't that mean there's clearly a difference?

    Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
     
  16. Cadenza

    Cadenza Documentation Expert

    Steam:
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/moon_cadenza
    Parasoul
    Filia
    Double
    Yes with the information that is given right now, yes. Let me give you additional information

    I also happen to fuck up those certain parasoul links like its my job.

    TL;DR, I play exclusively on PC and i hated PS3's timing, PS4 at wbx, my first time playing on ps4, all my filia stuff felt right at home, all my fukua stuff felt right at home, all my parasoul combos, resets, tech felt right at home. TO ME there was no difference. Can't say the same for you.
     
  17. mcpeanuts

    mcpeanuts Anchor Peacock is the future

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Steam:
    may_contain_peanuts
    Double
    Big Band
    Peacock
    @Dhoppler

    I have done it



    The combo works on everyone but the left/right reset doesn't work on Double or Big Band.
     
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  18. Dhoppler

    Dhoppler Forsaken by grains. Hated by the food industry.

    Location:
    KCK
    Steam:
    dhoppler
    PSN:
    dhoppler
    XBL:
    stormin fiasco
    Peacock
    Ms. Fortune
    Big Band
    I was about to be overly formal and go on about this, but I'll just say it straight. This is fucking gdlk. And I see you worked in the cross under you talked about earlier today.
     
    mcpeanuts likes this.
  19. Dhoppler

    Dhoppler Forsaken by grains. Hated by the food industry.

    Location:
    KCK
    Steam:
    dhoppler
    PSN:
    dhoppler
    XBL:
    stormin fiasco
    Peacock
    Ms. Fortune
    Big Band
    From Duck's match video thread:











    I need to remember that the entire reason for playing other characters first is to create a good situation for Peacock and get her in the match.
    I lost sight of playing an effective wall strategy against fuzzy. Tyson was right, everybody has plan until they get hit in the mouth.
    This alpha counter (into light Beat Extend since the full convo isn't in this thread) is incredibly important.
     
  20. Cadenza

    Cadenza Documentation Expert

    Steam:
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/moon_cadenza
    Parasoul
    Filia
    Double
  21. Dhoppler

    Dhoppler Forsaken by grains. Hated by the food industry.

    Location:
    KCK
    Steam:
    dhoppler
    PSN:
    dhoppler
    XBL:
    stormin fiasco
    Peacock
    Ms. Fortune
    Big Band
    Thank you.
     
  22. Dhoppler

    Dhoppler Forsaken by grains. Hated by the food industry.

    Location:
    KCK
    Steam:
    dhoppler
    PSN:
    dhoppler
    XBL:
    stormin fiasco
    Peacock
    Ms. Fortune
    Big Band
    My first real entry since combo breaker.

    I've switched to my Fortune team for the time being. I figure if I can be as effective with them as I am with my Peacock team, then I'll have a proper alternative team when facing match ups I don't like. I've become more comfortable with them than I was last week. Not bad for about only an hour in training mode with Fortune. I don't want her to be my only good character on that team though. I'll need a lot more work over the course of this month.

    Current Goals:

    Fortune:
    Learn the Fortune/m shadow combo.
    More consistent hit confirms with Fortune. (Stop using stand lk at any point except for the end of a combo, buffer cr.mp after cr.lk in neutral, confirming with el gato of iad j.lp or j.lk)
    Effectively learning to use headless Fortune. (I'll be needing some help from @FuLLBLeeD and @Fizzxwizz when I'm not using the skippy vid)
    Polish up the Big Band only combo for Fortune and learn the BB only resets
    Work on P1 side inputs. Specifically after air dashing.

    Fukua:

    More consistency with bnb.
    Other shadow combos
    Polish the sage reset.
    Use the slide under reset more.
    Improve neutral game and match up knowledge


    Eliza:
    Learn other bnbs.
    There seems to be a more damaging corner combo
    Happy birthday combo
    Learn various resets.
    Improve iad pressure.
    Learn more match ups
    Establish a better ground presence during neutral.



    For the future

    Big Band:
    Learn the no otg combo
    Learn the DHC off of timpani to use with Lenny
    Corner carry combo
    Better mid range game

    Peacock:
    Timpani to Lenny DHC
    Proper cross up shadow mixups.
    Ground throw oki. (specifically the one concerning j.hk)
    Polish the j.hk loop combo.


    Beowulf
    (same as before)
    Also must learn wulf blitzer conversion off of h chair toss.


    Robo
    (same as before)
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2016
  23. Dhoppler

    Dhoppler Forsaken by grains. Hated by the food industry.

    Location:
    KCK
    Steam:
    dhoppler
    PSN:
    dhoppler
    XBL:
    stormin fiasco
    Peacock
    Ms. Fortune
    Big Band
    Another Maxout on the board. 2nd place again. Lost to @Fuzzy_Snugs again. I'm not really disappointed about that because this is the first time I took my Fortune team to Maxout. I did better than expected. I honestly expected to lose to FuLLBLeeD, but that didn't happen. What I don't like are some of the decisions I made. Video uploads will arrive soon enough so I can look over the matches. Things were closer with Fuzzy than expected even though it didn't look that way at the end of each game. It looks like I'll need to work on punish combos and kill combos (like no shit, should have done it sooner). If I had those, I feel these matches would look very different at the end. I'm doing a poor job of exploring my characters and that's the reason for this plateau. For this team to already produce similar results as my BB/PC squad shows that I can reach proficiency relatively quickly, but I don't develop much past that.


    That said, I feel like I've improved pretty well with Fukua as far as hitting combos and feeling natural with her. I need to do a better job playing the ground game. I'll also need to see what I can do to squeeze a bit more damage out of her so my opponents don't survive and get their characters out. I also made a few poor decisions to reset into throw when I had no meter or the corner to convert. I'll have to keep that in check. This is the key reason to start using the slide under reset in conjunction with the Sage vortex. Also, I'll need to think of the best things to cancel s.hp into just in case opponents block it. I should already have an answer to this. I also need to learn to combo Squigly in the corner. My god I can't stand that litch.

    Eliza needs work all around. She felt natural when I first picked her up, but I notice that I'm pretty stumped when it comes to playing patient opponents, more so than when I play with any other character. According to Fuzzy, I need to be able to move with her in the air. So I'll be working on that next. The Double match up feels as bad as it's been described to me. I'll have to remember to take out Double before it comes down to playing that match up with Eliza in the future. I'll also need to think about what to do if it does come down to that. Beyond that, my air movement sucks with her. My ground movement isn't much better, but then again she is slow. I have a billion resets that lead to big damage that I haven't even begun to use or even consider. For some reason I couldn't combo Parasoul to save my life. It was awful in every way imaginable so I guess I better work on that too.

    My Fortune has the same problems as she did in my previous post. The only change is that I'm slightly better at confirming off of air normals. Small improvement, but much more work to do. Yesterday, I kept pushing hk early after s.mk which caused me to drop a ton of combos. I don't know why. I've never done that before. I'll chalk it up to being anxious.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2016
  24. Cadenza

    Cadenza Documentation Expert

    Steam:
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/moon_cadenza
    Parasoul
    Filia
    Double
    Hitconfirm better and you would not have this problem.
    To answer your questions you got the following

    L shadow. It is not a true blockstring so prepare for reaction daisy pusher or L upperkhat or w.e
    Cmdgrab: 8f start up. the gimmick of the choices. You end up dying if the person decides to neutral jump
    H drill: Loses to grab and punishable on block but is invincible. usually done as a late special cancel.
    L drill: -4 and is the safest choice.

    Good luck
     
    Dhoppler likes this.
  25. Pickles

    Pickles VT scene?

    Location:
    Vermont
    Steam:
    Pickles (/id/shamanlord)
    PSN:
    PS_Shamanlord (but I rarely use this for SG)
    Filia
    Double
    Unknown
    tbh this is the best advice, any string thats so long that you're doing another move after your lmh ground string is almost guaranteed to get you pbgc'd. c.lk c.lk s.mk is an easy string, when you get better at confirming you can do it off of 2 hits instead of needing all 3. If however you're talking about something like s.hp after m shadow in your vortex, then l drill like twerk said is the safest choice however if you don't already have an assist to make it safe I'd advise doing the vortex closer to ground and using s.lp instead of s.hp. L drill may also be unsafe on land cancel idk

    from what i saw watching maxout it looks like your #1 problem is combos, you either dropped combos or randomly stopped like you didn't know where to go next or you forgot where you were in the combo so you had to stop or things like that. Reliability was one of your biggest issues.
     
    mcpeanuts and Dhoppler like this.
  26. Dhoppler

    Dhoppler Forsaken by grains. Hated by the food industry.

    Location:
    KCK
    Steam:
    dhoppler
    PSN:
    dhoppler
    XBL:
    stormin fiasco
    Peacock
    Ms. Fortune
    Big Band



    And here it is.
     
  27. Dhoppler

    Dhoppler Forsaken by grains. Hated by the food industry.

    Location:
    KCK
    Steam:
    dhoppler
    PSN:
    dhoppler
    XBL:
    stormin fiasco
    Peacock
    Ms. Fortune
    Big Band
    I've been neglecting this.

    My execution and confirms have been real bad lately with everyone. So I'm in the middle of polishing those up. Then I'll be returning to working on new strats and set ups. I've been blocking better lately, so that's good.

    @DawnHibiki you owe me a fukua lesson.
     
    DawnHibiki and FuLLBLeeD like this.
  28. Dhoppler

    Dhoppler Forsaken by grains. Hated by the food industry.

    Location:
    KCK
    Steam:
    dhoppler
    PSN:
    dhoppler
    XBL:
    stormin fiasco
    Peacock
    Ms. Fortune
    Big Band
    Watching these old vids...man. I see why people are so flabbergasted when I play. Aside from the parts that I realize are drops, why would I do half the shit I do?

    Oh well.
    Playing Eliza is working out on a local level. Much further to go before I can take her out at a major.
    Taking a long break outside of streaming actually seemed to have helped a lot. I'll have to regain my bearings and see where I want to go from here.


    I'm leaving Fukua, Beowulf and Robo alone for now. I don't think I'll pick Fukua back up.


    I like pariing Eliza with Fortune. If I decide to stick with Osiris, I'll have to start finding ways to make that work. Butcher's blade is so much easier to use. But the meter cost for abusing it is steep.

    Point Band is working great for me though. I think I'm only gonna play him anchor with Ms Fortune. Back around CEOtaku I went back and worked the basics with him. Juggles and corner carries are much more consistent than they've been before and I don't spend the whole match trying to stay full screen and waiting for the bomb to get close before I do anything.


    My Fortune has gotten really basic, but it's not like I ever used much tech with her anyways. It's funny because I'll make up a mix up, use it for a week and then drop it. I'll have to start playing Ms Fortune more often. On the plus side, I'm not dropping every other combo with her. I think for now, I'll focus on getting oki with her.


    Peacock hasn't changed much. I'm back into a phase where I'm good at being real slippery with her. I think I'm gonna focus on making sure I actually zone with her. Something important to make sure I do is to work on BB DHC combos into lenny. I can only hit Ms Fortune with it and I've never hit one in an actual match.


    I'll have to review this thread to see what it is I want to work on with these 4.
     
  29. Dhoppler

    Dhoppler Forsaken by grains. Hated by the food industry.

    Location:
    KCK
    Steam:
    dhoppler
    PSN:
    dhoppler
    XBL:
    stormin fiasco
    Peacock
    Ms. Fortune
    Big Band
    Confirms.

    Ground confirms.
    Air confirms

    All characters.
     
  30. Cadenza

    Cadenza Documentation Expert

    Steam:
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/moon_cadenza
    Parasoul
    Filia
    Double
    Always tech towards robo. not away from robo!
     
  31. Dhoppler

    Dhoppler Forsaken by grains. Hated by the food industry.

    Location:
    KCK
    Steam:
    dhoppler
    PSN:
    dhoppler
    XBL:
    stormin fiasco
    Peacock
    Ms. Fortune
    Big Band
    I'm back and more neglectful than ever. I've been down to only working on Big Band and Peacock for more than awhile now. I've been neglecting any actual practice or training and now some big gaping holes have opened up since Frosty Faustings that I need to plug.



    Things to work on going forward


    staying on the ground more. (both characters)
    confirms (both)
    neutral game (it's like it automatically shuts off after a major)
    varying my game plan and approach
    more consistent pbgcs
    avoiding land cancels into getting hit (easier when I stay on the ground)
    land cancel punishes




    punishes to work on for the week (following the tenets of no pb, pbgc, and land cancel whenever possible):

    cerecopter at point blank and max range (BE is one of them, see if I can find more)
    hornet bomber (all 3 strengths at close and long range)
    hornet bomber into monster
    cillia slide into monster
    squigly SBO (on start up of course)


    by character:

    Big Band
    continue to work on parries and finding the best button for each situation.
    moving forward safely
    reading my opponents faster so I can...
    condition opponents so I'm not guessing so often. With this, I won't become or seem so predictable.
    character match up knowledge
    polish BE combos
    doing more complete corner carry combos
    using more resets mid screen
    incoming mixup mid screen

    more actual tech such as
    fast fall
    push block baits (for 1-4 hit strings on the ground) (and the ones for jumping in)
    hit confirms
    safe jumps (@FuLLBLeeD seems to like these)
    continuing to parry assists


    Peacock

    as mentioned earlier zoning. I need more consistency in my patterns and when to recognize people are bypassing them so I can move accordingly
    intercepting people as they get better at a approaching
    reading my opponents and choosing the proper projectile accordingly (holy shit bang bang bang is 18f start up vs st.hp's 15f, that move continues to be trash w/o leading with bombs)
     
    FuLLBLeeD likes this.

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