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Theoretical character changes and their applications.

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Stuff

The guy who says the thing you might not like
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Now to start things off things off I'd like to leave a general idea of what this thread is.

Firstly, this is not a "x character is bad/op pls buff/nerf" thread.

Secondly, this only a thread to think of neat changes to a character these should not be made to sound like a demand as most likely none of the suggestions here will be put in the game.

Lastly, try to keep it classy and have fun with this.

Something I've always been curious about was painwheel's flight speed. If she were to fly faster would she be able to maneuver past things like projectiles making getting in a lot easier (instead of armoring the projectiles). I figure her mix up game would also improve significantly and maybe she would be able to convert from M buer too but this all I can think of with the given change. I don't think that her match ups would change much it was always something I longed for and I don't feel the change would be too overbearing.

(This thread is mostly made to see how someone would change the game if they were able to.)
 
If bella could combo s.HP after c.LK her runstop pressure would be SO GOOD.

PBGC safe and neutral on block (I think?). Man... I wish it was a thing. :Q__
 
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What exactly would that bella change do?
 
Broseidon Rex said:
What exactly would that bella change do?
If you do c.lk > s.hp > runstop, you have a low that is two hits (so it's safe from getting PBGC'd and isn't completely wrecked by pushblocking), neutral on block, and an effortless confirm into lp/lk. Doing c.lk c.mp s.hp runstop is way less effective because you're likely to get pushblocked on the c.mp.

edit: I should also say that I do c.lk c.mp runstop all the time as a block string and it's still really good, but you can never get enough advantage off c.mp runstop to use as a confirm, unlike with s.hp.

tl;dr a two hit, low-hitting string that is both a safe blockstring (that leads to more pressure) and a crazy easy confirm would be kinda stupid probably.
 
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Since Ms Fortune's head got nerfed, I feel it's been juuust slightly overnerfed. It going into recovery when hit by an opponent is good, but maybe it would be better if it was cut down to 80% or something so that Ms Fortune isn't -as- completely boned when the head is hit.

If not that, I really want Zoom to be a low so that fortune can set up self hard-to-blockables, because what's a puppet character without ridiculous setups like that?
 
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Zoom would catch people a LOT


at least for a while
 
ClarenceMage said:
because what's a puppet character without ridiculous setups like that?
I always wanted sneeze to come down and hit. Always seemed weird that it doesn't hit at all on the fall, but kicking it does.
Actually, I just want the head to do more stuff. All it does it hit mid once 4 different ways.
 
Let Double follow up after a blockbuster. You should be able to OTG after swag wagon, at least in the corner. Every other character can get a combo after a blockbuster, and go into another blockbuster. This would be a good way to pile on damage with extra meter if you luck into the right situation.
 
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zarkingphoton said:
Let Double follow up after a blockbuster. You should be able to OTG after swag wagon, at least in the corner. Every other character can get a combo after a blockbuster, and go into another blockbuster. This would be a good way to pile on damage with extra meter if you luck into the right situation.

I don't really want to turn this into a discussion about what characters can or can't do but double can combo after car if you've used catheads before it. You can also combo with/after level 5. Eliza can't combo off either of her level 1 supers and her level 3 only if you have otg or something.

NEWAYS

dumb not super important things I think would be interesting to have in the game
  • The ability to combo from hornet bomber into a heavier level bomber like L into M into H
  • The proposed idea of making big band's tag in be his j.hk coming from the side. As it is right now, it's kind of a slower version of val's tag that goes nigh fullscreen. Although it does have a hit of armor in the beta which makes it significantly better. However thinking about it right now my proposed thing would be pretty similar to filia's tag with the exception you can tech after it.
  • a bunch of other things I can't think of because I'm a dingus.
 
Double being able to TK Teacup, like C. Viper's viper ball tech from UMVC3, but with an adorable little teacup.
 
What if fortune could grab her head midair and put it back on? What if she could shoot X shaped projectiles with j.HP?
 
Something I've always wanted as bella is to be able to stop glide mid flight like she can stop tumble run. It makes logical sense, being that she should be able to just stop gliding forward. That her only options out of glide are clap/elbow/grab bag has always bugged me (she's got all the finesse of a top class circus performer, she can stop her full charge tumble run on a dime, but she can't simply stop gliding?). There are so many characters that even without assists can just snipe her out of the air if she starts gliding. I would be able to bait out assists and even some supers with proper timing, even if it just had the same frames as runstop (16f stop).

Another thing I want is to be able to move around while doing Grab Bag. So holding up would descend slower, and holding left or right would strafe in that direction. Maybe hold down to stop grab bag and land like a normal person instead of like a rag doll that can be OTG'd free? Maybe only down and down forward giving you the "grab bag stop" thing, since down back would let you get out of it and block at the same time. I'd also probably give it a startup time requirement before she could cancel grab bag, so she can't like grab bag, just miss them, instantly cancel.

The other thing about Grab Bag I'd like to see an experiment for is untechable knockdown on Grab Bag. Cause I mean... 2.7k with no possible followup sans specific assist setups. Now that normal air grab has been fit to the rest of the casts air grabs, and she can actually do things from it, there's little to no reason I can see to choose grab bag over air grab.
 
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give fukua air shadows.....all mid attack of course....but air shadows....oh yes the air shadows. also would like air drill super or create a semi high ground bounce that you have to use L shadow to pick up or c mp c hp > l shadow
 
I've always wondered why j.2MP isn't special cancellable. Using the velocity of j.2MP to setup a Grab Bag reset would be fantastic, if not a bit powerful.
 
@Midiman You think it may be powerful, and then you realize it's Grab Bag she's cancelling into.

Speaking of Elbow, I'd also like to be able to combo from it much more easily. As of now, the only way to combo is to hit it just right and make the landing frame the first frame that connects. Which means you have to go through your full jump arc, and then just before you land you do it. I think maybe the reason elbow doesn't have normal hitstun is because Mike didn't want her to have a 15f instant overhead? That's the only reason I can think of. But characters in the game already have overheads that are that fast. Even if you're in a position where you would overhead, Diamond Drop is a better option, cause it has A) better base damage (j+d.mp can only be cancelled to super, so j+d.mp, super does 4077, DDrop, super, Titan Knuckle does 4180), B) the chance for Dynamo to end in the corner and get around 8k, C) is 3X faster (DDrop 5f, Elbow 15F), and D) beats all the same options as Elbow while also being safer if the opponent jumps: Elbow and DDrop beat crouch block and grabs, and both lose to jump, but Elbow puts the opponent in a position where any crouching light can punish where as DDrop is safe against most characters unless they do very specific things (instant overhead, IAD, air super).

Having an easily comboable Elbow would mean that Bella could get at least 10k off an overhead, though... maybe if it loses an OTG still, that could be pretty fair damage wise.

Another thing I'd like is to be able to glide after a double jump. I asked Mike once and he said... something... I don't remember exactly, but I think it was something about having to limit her options to either a double jump or a glide. I don't remember why. But every other character that has a double jump and an air mobility option can use both (Peacock, Val, Ms.Fortun can all double jump and air dash).

Wow... there are so many things I'd like to have fun doing as Cerebella. I guess I think about them more than I thought I did.
 
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you get 2.7k off of grab bag which is the same as doing a super why should it have a sliding knockdown? come on lol
 
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If super ends in the corner you get 6k, 7k for a second bar. During that combo there are also reset opportunities. There's also the chance to catch two characters in the super and double snap for a dead character. If your super connects midscreen, you can DHC to your other character, getting bella to safety. On block, if you have a safe DHC (which you should) you can use it, getting bella to safety.

If Grab Bag lands you get 2.7k period. If it connects you have to chase down your opponent again (unless it landed in the corner). If it misses you get OTG'd free. You can still get grabbed out of it. And of course, air grab is now better than it in almost every way (more damage, reset opportunities, DHC opportunities, more meter gain, safer).
 
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Don't say airgrab is better in almost every way or it'll get nerfed.

Grab bag is a reset/incoming tool that gives you a giant chunk of damage and meter for no risk if it doesn't work. You SHOULDN'T be using it midscreen unless you think it'd kill and landing it in the corner which is where it should be used gives you all the positioning you need. If I do bella's regular bnb I can't choose to spend a second bar because I already used my otg. If I want more damage than what I would have gotten from a super grab bag is a easy way to do it. Giving it a sliding knockdown would be too much and add to her already too good vortex because now you just have them knocked down as you stand there for 3 seconds setting up for free.

I do not want grab bag to be better than it is now.
 
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I don't really understand why Double is designed as a lower-mid damage output character when her mixup is so basic and her defense is pretty bad. I know you can't really buff Double at this point because she's so perfect for a certain niche that she's already overrepresented but some "EX Double" design that gave her Bella level damage and a few different properties on some specials/supers to give her a few more tools but also keep her from becoming an even better DHC/assist/comeback anchor would be cool.
 
Maybe a change to grab bag would be limiting the meter gain by the opponent? Currently, I believe bella gets 1/3 meter and the opponent 1/4. If maybe they got less, there'd be more incentive to use it against meter hungry characters like peacock or eliza.
 
dekillsage said:
Don't say airgrab is better in almost every way or it'll get nerfed.
Okay. I'll try (and probably fail) to not say those things.
Grab bag is a reset/incoming tool that gives you a giant chunk of damage and meter for no risk if it doesn't work. You SHOULDN'T be using it midscreen unless you think it'd kill and landing it in the corner which is where it should be used gives you all the positioning you need.
Okay. Though I'd like to be able to do it more than just in the corner, I do understand it's a corner tool.
If I do bella's regular bnb I can't choose to spend a second bar because I already used my otg. If I want more damage than what I would have gotten from a super grab bag is a easy way to do it.
My BNB doesn't eat up my OTG. I usually can land two supers in a combo. But yeah, that is true. Though I'd also argue that nearly any reset even at max Undizzy can get you more damage and more (if not similar) meter gain.

For example: c.lk reset into c.mp, s.hk, runstop, c.lp, c.mp, s.hk, Excellebella gets 4.1k for much more meter (looks like 2x Grab Bag), MGR, c.lk, c.mp, s.hk, runstop, c.lp, c.mp, s.hk, Excellebella gets 4.2k and more meter (looks like 1.5x), normal grab, c.lk, c.mp, s.hk, runstop, c.lp, c.mp, c.hp Excellebella gets 4.2k and more meter (1.5x looks like), and air grab, j.lk, c.lk, c.mp, c.hp, Excellebella gets 2.7k and a bit more meter. Those all of course come with super/reset/dhc opportunities.
Giving it a sliding knockdown would be too much and add to her already too good vortex because now you just have them knocked down as you stand there for 3 seconds setting up for free.
I don't even explicitly want sliding/untechable knockdown, just something to make it worth using over anything else bella can do. The only thing it has going for it is that it's sorta nice on incoming, which happens only like once or twice a match.
 
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I suppose. It does take remove the opponents undizzy bar and lets you go for pressure afterwards which I think is pretty gooood. Bella has like every other tool to not need grab bag to be a tool you'd want to use outside the corner anyways.
 
Maybe make Valentine's meterless conversion from air grab more consistent on every character, because you get abysmal damage anyway. Maybe a delay on the downward hit of her air grab, so as to not burn an OTG whenever air grab scalpels happens
 
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I'd like it if Parasoul's Egret Dive actually helped her with the Peacock and Fukua matchups. I remember Mike Z suggesting at one point that the Egret could maybe toss a grenade or something to force the opponent to block for a moment. As it is, Egret Dive usually just gets me reaction-Argus'd or BFF'd.
 
Or, just go back to being able to Silent Scope the Argus on reaction?
 
I'd love to be able to use fortune's slide and axekick as assists
 
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Tremolo? More like Treme-blow. As in it sucks.
 
Zidiane said:
Tremolo? More like Treme-blow. As in it sucks.
It's nice for combos... like most of her movelist.
 
Emuchu said:
I'd like it if Parasoul's Egret Dive actually helped her with the Peacock and Fukua matchups. I remember Mike Z suggesting at one point that the Egret could maybe toss a grenade or something to force the opponent to block for a moment. As it is, Egret Dive usually just gets me reaction-Argus'd or BFF'd.

You're calling it at the wrong time..

Emuchu said:
It's nice for combos... like most of her movelist.

Uhhhhh
 
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gllt said:
You're calling it at the wrong time..
What would be the correct time? As far as I've experienced, Peacock can always react to Egret Dive with Argus, since Dive has recovery and doesn't absorb the laser, and reacting to Argus with Silent Scope usually gets me Bandwagon'd by Double. I'd actually be super-pleased if I've just been handling the move wrong.
Uhhhhh
Isn't most of Squig's movelist combo filler? I only really use Center Stage, Draugen Punch, and Fallen Maiden outside of combos. And tons of stanceling.
 
Zidiane said:
Something I've always wanted as bella is to be able to stop glide mid flight like she can stop tumble run. It makes logical sense, being that she should be able to just stop gliding forward. That her only options out of glide are clap/elbow/grab bag has always bugged me (she's got all the finesse of a top class circus performer, she can stop her full charge tumble run on a dime, but she can't simply stop gliding?).
#GiveBellaAnAirdash
 
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