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Tips for getting an advantage during Neutral Game

Luminory

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Fukua Big Band
I feel like this is where I struggle the most in Skullgirls. I don't understand the concept of pokes and separating it from moves that can conbo into damage. For example I have a bad habit of using j.hp to approach a character with Parasoul.

My main questions are:
-How do you play the "neutral game" effectively in Skullgirls
-Can long range pokes, mainly with Parasoul but in general too, have high conversion potential
-How do you apply pressure with pokes
-During what events is neutral game lost and a player has the advantage


Any and all responses are welcome.
 
During what events is neutral game lost and a player has the advantage
I'm horrible at fighting games and have no idea how to explain neutral and how to win in neutral, but from where I stand neutral game is lost once one player is forced to block or back away for an extended period of time.
How do you apply pressure with pokes
Think it'll hit with little-to-no chances of being punished? Poke! An example would be something like punishing whiffed normals with Parasoul's f.hp if you're too far to start a combo. Then again this probably isn't a poke? The closest example to a poke I really have is using Bigband's L Brass Knuckle in neutral. Having it block at a distance would probably leave you unpunished but at the same time you can't convert off of it and you and the opponent simply go back to neutral. It does, however, stifle any sort of momentum the opponent has built up in neutral. Plus, canceling it to SSJ burns meter but now the opponent is conditioned to think L Brass = SSJ, thus they are now afraid of L Brass and will try to avoid it easily allowing you to exploit that fear.
Parasoul f.hp poke xx Tear Toss/Shot would be good I guess? Can't really convert off of f.hp but canceling it to toss (Is this possible?) or shot (If you can) wouldn't really lead to damage, but now you're both back at neutral except you've got a bit of an advantage with a tear out.
Then again I don't play parasoul and you can probably convert from f.hp with bike super?
Can long range pokes, mainly with Parasoul but in general too, have high conversion potential
It really depends.
Solo-wise you can't really get much off a max-range poke most of the time. Not sure if you can convert off of Parasoul's Bike Super, but that'd be neat.
On a team, though, you can poke super then dhc into a full punish if you've got the meter.
How do you play the "neutral game" effectively in Skullgirls
Choose Fukua then just spam her command grab.
Skullgirls players don't have the common sense to use a sweep and their reaction time is too slow to jump to safety.
If you're not willing to take the risk, choose peacock and just zone. Unless you're playing against BB or Bella, I highly recommend starting every round with J.hk adc j.hp. Against Eliza's armor boat simply punish the damn thing with something that isn't a projectile. :3
 
Have you ever played street fighter?
Parasoul can convert off any poke without meter. For instance: cr.mk goes into s.hp which goes into a combo.
Cr.mp into sweep into oki setup
 
Have you ever played street fighter?
Man, I want to get into street fighter.
I really do, but when skullgirls being my first fighter really spoiled me on netplay.
I've got SFIV but hated it, I sorta maybe want to get 3rd strike but most players seem to be from the Americas.
 
Have you ever played street fighter?
Parasoul can convert off any poke without meter. For instance: cr.mk goes into s.hp which goes into a combo.
Cr.mp into sweep into oki setup
I have issues getting within range of those pokes for some reason.
During neutral game Im not sure how to approach my opponent and if he jumps Im not sure how to react to that.
I have played Street Fighter but not on a level where I completely understand how to play competitively.

Great advice from both of you, this is exactly what Im looking for.
Keep the responses coming!
 
The way I learned how to poke is to go into training mode and figure out the max range at which every one of my moves reaches. From there I explored what option I had from each move. The last thing I tested was how to make each option safe safe if I messed up.
 
I feel like this is where I struggle the most in Skullgirls. I don't understand the concept of pokes and separating it from moves that can conbo into damage. For example I have a bad habit of using j.hp to approach a character with Parasoul.

My main questions are:
-How do you play the "neutral game" effectively in Skullgirls
-Can long range pokes, mainly with Parasoul but in general too, have high conversion potential
-How do you apply pressure with pokes
-During what events is neutral game lost and a player has the advantage


Any and all responses are welcome.

Playing the neutral game effectively (with Parasoul in specific) requires a lot of patience reading the opponent's movement, normals/projectiles, and capitalizing off of any of the mistakes. Parasoul has the gift of some of the best normals in the game, along with arguably the best air to air presence in the game. The downside, is that none of it is incredibly fast (aside from J.LP which i'll mention in a sec) so you have to really be educated in your whiff punishing and educated in KNOWING what you want your opponents character to do. Only way to really get "good" neutral is honestly to just play a bunch. Play people worse then you, play people as good as you, but most importantly, play people that can slaughter you. Pay attention to HOW they're hitting you first, and try to figure out ways to avoid that specific situation, now the pieces are coming together and you're blocking more, you're more confident in your approaches, and now you'll get the hits! Takes a looong time to build a strong neutral but the good news is its impossible to truly "obtain". In the sense that you can ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS, have better neutral. It will never be "perfect".


Long pokes totally give you conversions, especially with the bae. With the help of an assist (beat extend perhaps ;D) you can make really strong conversions, call your assist, and OTG making it way easier on yourself. Sometimes though, you might simply just be out of range. Parasoul excels with this though, and while you may have struck a hit in with a long poke but are spaced too far away. Parasoul is able to get pressure from a lot of ranges thanks to her LP napalm shot and other stuff, but obviously you have to be worrying of the reversal from your opponent. C.MP is an AMAZING tool with Parasoul that you should be experimenting with. C.LK should also be your combo starter and main ground tool in most neutral situations because of how strong it is. However, Parasoul truly shines in the situation of air to air. J.HP is good, don't get me wrong, its an amazing normal... now J.LP. Is by far one of the best air to airs in the entire game. Whys that? Because it comes out fast for Parasoul, and it chains into j.hp! Notice how when you just hit with one J.HP if they're in the air you can't get a combo most of the time because the opponent will tech away. Since J.LP, J.HP is a chain combo, it gives you a hard knockdown for a very easy conversion. Doing this, means you won the neutral! Study top Parasouls and you'll see exactly what I mean. Very few characters can challenge Parasoul with a button when both players are in the air, and you need to use that to your advantage!


Strong pressure can be hard to achieve with Parasoul, you have to not only read your opponents block, but read the push block, and read how good they are at PBGCing (if you don't know what this is look it up, the definition is bound to be somewhere, I REALLY suck at explaining it.) So okay, say you're doing C.LK on the opponent and they're blocking. You WANT to do C.LK, C.MK, S.HPx2 as a blockstring. So, you do C.MK and they pushblock and now the S.HP whiffs completely, well that sucks! Now, you have to read the push block and ALWAYS keep a charge with this character. That way if someone pushblocks your C.MK, BAM, LP Napalm Shot. So you might not be at the most optimal range for pressure, but you're keeping them blocking and they have to worry about the tear. You can try to keep approaching and keep it on or lay back and try to win again in neutral. The biggest key is your assist, unsafe pressure now becomes safe with the help of an assist putting your opponent in blockstun. Once again just study stronger Parasoul's and just see what you can do in certain situations and just play A LOT so you can figure the situations out!


Situations Where You Win In Neutral:
-You hit the opponent clean into a combo
-You've thrown the opponent, and converted from the throw, or at least thrown into a spacing situation in your favor.
-Hit the opponent with any singular move that causes a hard knockdown/sliding knockdown. A train with Big Band for example, if you land that and you end up closer to the opponent and they HAVE to get up? You won neutral.
-Opponent has to be blocking for a fair period of time. Yeah you might not be hitting them but you were able to set up the situation in your favor regardless.
-The opponent is in the corner. Being in the corner in this game is a lose/lose situation so if you can harass and intimidate them into the corner you're doing good!

Thats all I could think of off the top of my head, hope this helps, sorry if it doesn't, sorry for any typos btw not much sleep haha.
 
Playing the neutral game effectively (with Parasoul in specific) requires a lot of patience reading the opponent's movement, normals/projectiles, and capitalizing off of any of the mistakes. Parasoul has the gift of some of the best normals in the game, along with arguably the best air to air presence in the game. The downside, is that none of it is incredibly fast (aside from J.LP which i'll mention in a sec) so you have to really be educated in your whiff punishing and educated in KNOWING what you want your opponents character to do. Only way to really get "good" neutral is honestly to just play a bunch. Play people worse then you, play people as good as you, but most importantly, play people that can slaughter you. Pay attention to HOW they're hitting you first, and try to figure out ways to avoid that specific situation, now the pieces are coming together and you're blocking more, you're more confident in your approaches, and now you'll get the hits! Takes a looong time to build a strong neutral but the good news is its impossible to truly "obtain". In the sense that you can ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS, have better neutral. It will never be "perfect".


Long pokes totally give you conversions, especially with the bae. With the help of an assist (beat extend perhaps ;D) you can make really strong conversions, call your assist, and OTG making it way easier on yourself. Sometimes though, you might simply just be out of range. Parasoul excels with this though, and while you may have struck a hit in with a long poke but are spaced too far away. Parasoul is able to get pressure from a lot of ranges thanks to her LP napalm shot and other stuff, but obviously you have to be worrying of the reversal from your opponent. C.MP is an AMAZING tool with Parasoul that you should be experimenting with. C.LK should also be your combo starter and main ground tool in most neutral situations because of how strong it is. However, Parasoul truly shines in the situation of air to air. J.HP is good, don't get me wrong, its an amazing normal... now J.LP. Is by far one of the best air to airs in the entire game. Whys that? Because it comes out fast for Parasoul, and it chains into j.hp! Notice how when you just hit with one J.HP if they're in the air you can't get a combo most of the time because the opponent will tech away. Since J.LP, J.HP is a chain combo, it gives you a hard knockdown for a very easy conversion. Doing this, means you won the neutral! Study top Parasouls and you'll see exactly what I mean. Very few characters can challenge Parasoul with a button when both players are in the air, and you need to use that to your advantage!


Strong pressure can be hard to achieve with Parasoul, you have to not only read your opponents block, but read the push block, and read how good they are at PBGCing (if you don't know what this is look it up, the definition is bound to be somewhere, I REALLY suck at explaining it.) So okay, say you're doing C.LK on the opponent and they're blocking. You WANT to do C.LK, C.MK, S.HPx2 as a blockstring. So, you do C.MK and they pushblock and now the S.HP whiffs completely, well that sucks! Now, you have to read the push block and ALWAYS keep a charge with this character. That way if someone pushblocks your C.MK, BAM, LP Napalm Shot. So you might not be at the most optimal range for pressure, but you're keeping them blocking and they have to worry about the tear. You can try to keep approaching and keep it on or lay back and try to win again in neutral. The biggest key is your assist, unsafe pressure now becomes safe with the help of an assist putting your opponent in blockstun. Once again just study stronger Parasoul's and just see what you can do in certain situations and just play A LOT so you can figure the situations out!


Situations Where You Win In Neutral:
-You hit the opponent clean into a combo
-You've thrown the opponent, and converted from the throw, or at least thrown into a spacing situation in your favor.
-Hit the opponent with any singular move that causes a hard knockdown/sliding knockdown. A train with Big Band for example, if you land that and you end up closer to the opponent and they HAVE to get up? You won neutral.
-Opponent has to be blocking for a fair period of time. Yeah you might not be hitting them but you were able to set up the situation in your favor regardless.
-The opponent is in the corner. Being in the corner in this game is a lose/lose situation so if you can harass and intimidate them into the corner you're doing good!

Thats all I could think of off the top of my head, hope this helps, sorry if it doesn't, sorry for any typos btw not much sleep haha.

This is literary perfect in terms of what I was looking for. Im going to apply all of these tips into my play style and reply to thia thread wifh results.
I cannot possibly thank you guys enough. This advice is helping me refine one of the hardest concepts for me to learm in fighting games.
Feel free to continue replying with additional tips!
 
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Skullgirls and Street Fighter are very different, no need to even bring Street Fighter into the conversation

@keninblack good post, thank you!
 
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