Valentine Combo Thread

Discussion in 'Valentine' started by Camail, Sep 3, 2013.

  1. Camail

    Camail Well-Known Member

    Here are duck's combos, organized by character and position on screen,some are redundant (kudos to duck for the doc):
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15h9sG0KOXKcOPS_S-M7BOzbURo1MabH2lDIHxh_m6Io/edit#gid=0

    Alright, here's your combos. It's important to have a BnB, but I strongly suggest you learn more than one combo. Learn combos that have different chains and different lengths of chains.


    If you have trouble pulling it off you can click here for some tips, but I encourage you to discover the timings on your own because it will make you better at doing val combos in general. And an additional minor note, you may want to do a cr.lk, cr.mk(2) starter to make hit confirms a lot easier, this will deflate the damage quite a bit, so you will have to figure that part out on your own. This isn't an exact science.

    0:00- Lightweights, Vial, ~7.4k
    c.lk, c.mk (1), c.hp,
    j.lk (1 hit), j.hp, j.hk , AD, j.mp (2), j.hk,
    j.lp , j.mp (2), j.hk, vial toss,
    dash, s.lp (3), s.lk, s.mp (2), s.mk, s.hk (3) xx HK Bypass xx EKG Flatliner

    0:19- Lightweights, Vialless, ~6.9k
    c.lk, c.mk (1), c.hp,
    j.hp, j.hk, AD, j.mp (2), j.hk,
    j.lp, j.mp (1), j.hk, ADC, j.mk, j.hk,
    dash, s.lp (3), s.lk, s.mp (2), s.mk, s.hk (3) xx HK Bypass xx EKG Flatliner

    0:38- Heavyweights, Vial, ~7.5k
    c.lk, c.mk (1), c.hp,
    j.hp, j.hk, AD, j.mp (3 hits), j.hk,
    j.lp, j.mp (3), j.hk, vial toss,
    dash, s.lp (3), s.lk, s.mp (2), s.mk, s.hk (3) xx HK Bypass xx EKG Flatliner

    0:56 Heavyweights, Vialless, ~7k
    c.lk, c.mk (1), c.hp,
    j.hp, j.hk, ADC j.mp (3), j.hk,
    j.lp, j.mp (3/[1 on bella]), j.hk, AD, j.mk, j.hk,
    dash, s.lp (3), s.lk, s.mp (2), s.mk, s.hk (3) xx HK Bypass xx EKG Flatliner

    I don't plan on putting any more videos in the OP, so any other combos will be linked below or will replace the one above if it becomes out-dated.

    [No video] Baby's First bnb- Universal, vialless, ~4.9k
    cr.lk, cr.mk, cr.hp
    j.hp, ad, j.hp xx HK Bypass xx EKG Flatliner

    [No Video] Beginner Bnb- Universal, vialess, ~5.6k
    cr.lk, cr.mk, cr.hp
    j.hp, ad, j.mp (3), j.hk
    j.lp, j.mp (3), j.hk
    s.lp,s.mp(1), s.hp xx HK Bypass xx EKG Flatliner

    I'm putting a call out for CH combos and combos that end at IPS 3.

    Ignore everything in this thread that is on pages 1,2, and half of 3. That was the old MDE undizzy and those combos are broken( OP is up to date).
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2014
    Sinclair, Kankato and KIKO G. like this.
  2. Makross

    Makross Average Joe

    Steam:
    makr0ss
    Valentine
    Filia
    I made this as a concept corner combo for double:


    Show Spoiler

    cr.lk, cr.mk(1), cr.hp,
    j.mk, j.hp, AD, j.mk, j.hp,
    j.lp, j.mk, j.hp,
    j.lk, j.mk, j.hp,
    j.mp, j.mk, j.hp xx vial (any vial, regular shuriken does't have the angle)
    s.mp, c.mk (1), s.hp xx HK Savage Bypass
    c.lk, s.mk, HK HK xx LK Savage Bypass xx EKG Flatliner
     
    sauce_fonda likes this.
  3. Vladislav_Paizis

    Vladislav_Paizis On hiatus from SG

    Location:
    Tallinn, Estonia
    Steam:
    Vladislav_Paizis
    PSN:
    Vlad7779311
    Ms. Fortune
    Eliza
    Unknown
    Camail, do you use Valentine and Ms. Fortune with HK Fiber Upper assist? If so, is there a way to incorporate Fiber Upper into Val's combos?
     
  4. Camail

    Camail Well-Known Member

    I use HK fiber primarily as a DP, sometimes as a short lockdown for cross up set ups. but no I do not use it n my combos.

    We can theory combo though and find out. So when you use the DP on its own it launches the opponent up, this make them mostly impossible to combo on, but while I've been messing around in the lab I noticed that if you hit your opponent at roughly the same time as the fiber upper does (not sure about the exact timing, but a timing exists) your opponent will stay close to the ground. I don't know of any combos because I don't use my assist that way, but it isn't impossible.
     
  5. Vladislav_Paizis

    Vladislav_Paizis On hiatus from SG

    Location:
    Tallinn, Estonia
    Steam:
    Vladislav_Paizis
    PSN:
    Vlad7779311
    Ms. Fortune
    Eliza
    Unknown
    I see the combo's Undizzy stun is over 350. Does that mean the other player can burst out of it?
     
  6. GHNeko

    GHNeko Hardest Community Lurker

    Fukua
    Only if you start a new chain while they're over the undizzy limit IIRC.
     
  7. Vladislav_Paizis

    Vladislav_Paizis On hiatus from SG

    Location:
    Tallinn, Estonia
    Steam:
    Vladislav_Paizis
    PSN:
    Vlad7779311
    Ms. Fortune
    Eliza
    Unknown
    What's a good 1 meter BnB for Val beginners?
     
  8. Camail

    Camail Well-Known Member

    The simplest combo that a val can do is cr.lk, cr.mk, cr.hp, j.hp, AD, j.hp, HK Savage Bypass, EKG Flatliner (~4980 damage). It does solid damage and require that you learn how to do AD cancels to continue combos, which is critical for Valentine. It doesn't do a lot of damage and it puts your opponent at full screen, but if I ever get a hit and don't know what to do I always fall back on this combo, and you can modify the combo with resets because you never have to deal with undizzy.

    Also, GHNeko was right, you can go over undizzy as long as you stay within the same chain. If I were to start another chain (which IPS would allow) my opponent could burst out. Of course, given your position in relation to the opponent when you OTG off the savage bypass I'm sure you can modify this combo into a burst bait.
     
  9. rayplay

    rayplay aka solidoutlaw

    Location:
    Houston
    cr.LK, cr.MK, cr.HP
    j.HP, j.HK xx AD xx j.MP, j.HP
    j.MK, j.HP
    j.LP, j.MP, j.HP
    j.LK, j.MP, j.HP xx shuriken/vial
    s.MP, s.HP, HK Savage Bypass
    s.HKx3, LK Savage Bypass
    cr.LP, s.MPx2, cr.MK, s.HP, HK Savage Bypass xx EKG Flatliner
    8.3k without poison.
     
  10. Camail

    Camail Well-Known Member

    Just by looking at the chains, you can actually do a st.lp(3) instead of a cr.lp. It a little harder but its possible.
     
  11. destruction_adv

    destruction_adv Yare Yare Daze

    Valentine
    Filia
    Double
    Is this mid-screen to corner, corner to corner, or just a straight up corner combo.
     
  12. Nyagamun

    Nyagamun New Member

    I would love to see a universal (or close to it) mid-screen BnB
     
  13. rayplay

    rayplay aka solidoutlaw

    Location:
    Houston
    You can do it from a midscreen distance to corner. It's not corner to corner though (well, you *can*, but it's very strict and even then, it's not literal corner to corner). It's easier in the corner obviously, but still possible midscreen. Sometimes omitting the first j.HK is good midscreen since it puts them up a bit higher and that makes followups harder.
     
  14. destruction_adv

    destruction_adv Yare Yare Daze

    Valentine
    Filia
    Double
    cool, whilewe're talking about mid-screen, anyone have a decent midscreen combo, so far I've just been using my old combo from vanilla skullgirls.
     
    ashxu likes this.
  15. GHNeko

    GHNeko Hardest Community Lurker

    Fukua


    So I could totally use your guys help improving these combos. The second is a variation that uses a tad bit moves to open up the rest.

    They're currently corner only.
     
  16. Camail

    Camail Well-Known Member

    You can always do j.mk, j.hp as your second air loop because it raises your opponent in the air.

    My biggest suggestion is to learn other people's combos at first. Then once you do that you will have enough experience to understand what each normal does in a combo. Val's corner optimized corner combos aren't really gonna look very different from each other, some slight variations will happen from person to person, though.
     
  17. GHNeko

    GHNeko Hardest Community Lurker

    Fukua
    But where is the fun in that?

    Also hiveminds have a weakness of looking over things. <_<

    Having a fresh pair of eyes that aren't apart of a hivemind allow for different perspectives, I think.

    Also, I still don't understand how IPS works lol. So there's that as well.
     
  18. Camail

    Camail Well-Known Member

    You have the classic perspective of the inexperienced. I told you to learn other people's combos so that you may learn move properties. This is also a way of saying that you need to learn the fundamentals of combos in this game, specifically val combos. How will you ever create a combo if you don't even know what the tools you are looking at can accomplish? You said it yourself that you don't understand IPS, which is a universal combo property. You won't be able to be truly original unless you understand the basics of a valentine combo, this involves learning how to do the combos of people who already understand her moveset, because those moves are already being used for their purpose. If you understand why each move is used when it is used then you can create combos for yourself. After all, only those who understand the rules are allowed break them. That's just the nature of it.

    Also, there is no such thing as a hivemind here, I won't chastise you because it is clear that you don't yet understand the atmosphere of the community. But trust me, if there is something new to find with Valentine it is not gonna be done by someone who doesn't already know every other combo she can do.

    Now on to something constructive, this isn't the place for it but I can explain IPS right here (There are ging to be some simplifcations, so if you have any particular objection to what I'm saying PM me and I'll go into more detail). There are 5 levels of IPS, and you can simplify that even further to loose IPS (1 and 2) and strict IPS (3,4 and 5). There are various ways that your IPS level can rise during a combo: you can start a new chain, you can empty jump, you can AD, and there are quite a few little intricacies in exactly WHAT increases your IPS, if you look in the beta patches Mike Z spells out the latest version of IPS somewhere in there. Once you reach level 3 IPS you go into the strict version. What happens here is what will cause your combos to be IPS burst, if you could keep IPS at 0, 1, or 2 (like what happens to an assist after you double snap) you could do infinites without fear of an ISP burst. Luckily for us IPS will always reach 3 if they are attacking the point character. During strict IPS 2 things will happen, your normals will be "read" (I'll explain this shortly) and the opponent undizzy meter will begin to fill up (only at IPS5). What I mean by "read" is this: if you use a normal then the IPS system will mark is as "read", which means that it can not be used as a starter for another chain. Lets say you did this string while in strict IPS :

    j.lp, j.mk, j.hp,
    j.lk, j.mk, j.hp,
    j.mk, j.hp
    .
    Now, what will happen is that IPS would allow your opponent to burst out once the third j.mk connects. Let's take this chain by chain to fully grasp what is happening. In the first chain I use j.lp, j.mk, and j.hp. IPS has now checked off those 3 normals as "read" which means they can't be sued as chain starters anymore. In the second chain we see that the starter is j.lk, and that we also are still able to use j.mk and j.hp even though they are marked as "read". This is because read normals are only unusable as chain starters. In the second chain we used a starter that hadn't been marked "read" yet so that chain was allowed (but now that is WAS used, it is read). In the third chain the starter is a j.mk which was already used during strict IPS, at this point the IPS system recognizes that you used a move that was already used during strict IPS so now that hit and every subsequent hit will give your opponent the opportunity to burst out and end the combo.

    The other thing that strict IPS does is add undizzy meter. Undizzy meter is only added during IPS 5, which is different from when strict IPS starts at level 3. Undizzy build from every "hit" during IPS5. Each hit has a specific amount of undizzy, which you can learn by looking at the numbers produced in training room from the attack data. Once you hit an undizzy count of 350 you can no longer start any new chains regardless of if the starter has been read yet. If you start a chain at 335 you can continue that chain until it ends, so you might have a combo that reaches 420 undizzy, but if you were to try and add a chain to the combo while it was at 420 the first hit of that chain will be burstable. Also, I say "hit" because what counts as a hit for undizzy is not what counts as a hit for your combo number. If you use the entirety of the j.mp your combo will have gone up by 5, because it does 5 hits, but undizzy considers that entire move as a single "hit" and adds 20 undizzy, it makes no difference if you use 1 hit or 5 hits of the j.mp, you will still add the same undizzy. This also goes for moves like Val's st.lp(3) where you oress the button three times. The combo says you hit them three times and you even did the input 3 times, but undizzy only counts the first hit, st.lp will add 15 undizzy regardless of if it was 1,2, or 3 hits.

    That's the basics of IPS. You can see IPS level and undizzy meter in the training room if you turn on attack data.
     
    mazei and Vladislav_Paizis like this.
  19. GHNeko

    GHNeko Hardest Community Lurker

    Fukua
    I understood how Undizzy works, but thanks for that regardless.

    I was just in the dark on how IPS counts moves lol.

    Also, mybad about that hivemind comment. I just have a really bad habit of not wanting to borrow combos from others.
     
  20. ashxu

    ashxu its time to ape

    Location:
    down under
    Steam:
    ashzu
    Valentine
    Big Band
    Fukua
    What's wrong with using other people's combos? I'd rather spend my time on doing things like learning match ups as opposed to spending hours in the lab doing a combo that may or may not be better than a combo that someone else already created.
     
  21. Vadsamoht

    Vadsamoht Well-Known Member Administrator

    Steam:
    Vadsamoht
    Ms. Fortune
    Robo Fortune
    The reasons that come to mind are:
    1. Different people find different things easy/hard
    2. Doing a combo that lots of other people use makes it easier for your opponent to spot reset points or places where you might drop the combo
    3. You don't get the same level of understanding about why each move is used at each stage in the loop

    But if you would rather learn matchups or just spend more time in matches than the lab, then feel free to use someone else's combo.
     
  22. Camail

    Camail Well-Known Member

    Vads your third point is exactly the opposite of the reason I gave for people learning others' combos. It is much easier to learn what a move does if you actually use it in its proper way, even if you don't recognize it at first. You are far more likely to understand a move by reverse engineering a combo than you are starting from scratch. This games combo system is far too flexible to make combo creation useful as a learning tool.
     
  23. Vadsamoht

    Vadsamoht Well-Known Member Administrator

    Steam:
    Vadsamoht
    Ms. Fortune
    Robo Fortune
    I see your point, but I guess it depends on how you build your own combos. If you look at a top-level combo and copy the basic structure (Jump-in > Ground chain > Launch > Air chain etc., or whatever the sequence happens to be) but simply choosing your own moves, then you're not going to learn much and you probably are better off simply copying another combo.

    I prefer an iterative approach, where I begin with a simple ground chain, then modify that to allow for a launch into an air combo, then modify the whole thing again to optimize for a relaunch/loop, and so on. And with every iteration, the decisions you have to make in order to make the combo as good as possible at that stage in the combo teaches you about the moves as you go through the process. Also, this process never occurs in a vacuum - you still end up watching match vids and realising that everyone else uses move A in a situation where you are using move B, and you compare the two and learn from that.

    tl;dr I agree with your point, I think we're just talking about different things when we talk about 'using your own combo'
     
  24. Nyagamun

    Nyagamun New Member

    been working on a combo, semi hard for me just from the awkwardness of delayed button presses

    2LK, 2MK(2), 2HP,
    9HK, air dash, slight delay MP, HK,
    9MK, HK, airdash HP,
    9LP, MP, HK,
    2HP,
    9LK(3),MP(3?), HP vial toss/dead cross,
    land 2LP, 2LK, HP, 236HK, HK(2) (I fucked up here, 5700 without last 236LK or super)
    it's not optimized yet and getting 7kish....and is pretty hefty in terms of corner carry
    pretty sure you can get a MP,MP HK HK 236LK here
    (edited for ease of reading)

    AFAIK works on everyone, only thing you have to change is the delay on the first j.MP(double doesn't get any delay..and you can only get 3 hits from MP)
    tried it with a j.MP before the first j.HK...makes the combo easier, not sure how it affects undizzy/damage
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2013
  25. GHNeko

    GHNeko Hardest Community Lurker

    Fukua
    Just a personal thing. But never the less, let's not get too far off topic.
     
  26. tekkaxe

    tekkaxe Member

    Steam:
    tekkaxe
    Valentine
    Hey folks,
    Just wanted to share a valentine corner combo I've been enjoying lately.
    "Behold!" - Mvc2 Cyclops:

     
    Makross likes this.
  27. ashxu

    ashxu its time to ape

    Location:
    down under
    Steam:
    ashzu
    Valentine
    Big Band
    Fukua
    So no one knows a decent mid screen combo?
     
  28. Vadsamoht

    Vadsamoht Well-Known Member Administrator

    Steam:
    Vadsamoht
    Ms. Fortune
    Robo Fortune
    Normally I'd recommend Pulsr's combos, but I haven't played enough of SQE to konw if it still works.
     
  29. @OmniSScythe

    @OmniSScythe Valentine Player

    It still works~
     
  30. BGCallisto

    BGCallisto Active Member

    Valentine
    Filia
    Cerebella
    In the corner you should be able to use FU the same way I use Updo I believe, press cr.hp launcher then assist button and negative edge a vial load, then otg and continue combo.

    Camail already mentioned that certain people find certain things harder than others, I personally suck at the pulsr combo; my go-to mid-screen is:

    string into cr.hp > early j.hp ADC j.mp(2hit) > land > j.lp j.mp(1hit) j.hp > land s.mp s.mp cr.hp > j.lk j.mp(1hit) j.hp > land dash s.lp s.mp s.mp s.mk cr.hp > j.hk xx m.bypass xx EKG

    Works on the entire cast with slight variations in timing needed for the lighter ones...that said I suck at combos and mine are all scaled to hell, ask Duck lol.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2013
  31. rayplay

    rayplay aka solidoutlaw

    Location:
    Houston
    Most bnbs followed pulsr's start and mid portions of the combo, and they can be done midscreen. They're tricky which is why everyone shows themselves doing it in the corner, but it's possible.
     
  32. destruction_adv

    destruction_adv Yare Yare Daze

    Valentine
    Filia
    Double
    Which pulsr combo are we talking about anyway?
     
  33. Dagwood

    Dagwood Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Canada
    Steam:
    Dagwood
    PSN:
    crond1zzle
    Parasoul
    Cerebella
    Double
    i do the pulsr combo but I barely ever finish a midscreen combo on val. Because usually you just end up in the corner anyways. Or you go for reset/pressure instead.
     
  34. rayplay

    rayplay aka solidoutlaw

    Location:
    Houston
    This was the original vanilla one.

    In SDE, it had to be altered, and it went something like this

    And in PC, the launch to j.HK no longer really works due to undizzy so instead, doing s.HK loops is a preferable ender. No video because I don't have one/don't wanna look in nico.
     
  35. destruction_adv

    destruction_adv Yare Yare Daze

    Valentine
    Filia
    Double
    Ah, thanks, that's different than the one I was doing.
     
  36. Nyagamun

    Nyagamun New Member

    the combo that I posted seems to be a bit more reliable midscreen...and at least has more damage per meter spent than the first video. I'll post again
    maybe some one can help me optimize?

    cr.LK, cr.MK(2), cr.HP,
    j.HK, air dash, slight delay j.MP(3-4 hits), j.HK,
    j.MK, j.HK, airdash j.HP,
    j.LP, j.MP(2hits I think), j.HK,
    2HP,
    j.LK(2-3), j.MP(2-3?), j.HK, HP vial toss/dead cross,
    land cr.LP, 2MK, HP, 236HK,
    cr.LK, s.MPx2, s.MK, s..HKx2, 236LK
    (I fucked up here, 6500 without meter)
    it's not optimized yet and getting 7kish....and is pretty hefty in terms of corner carry
    (edited for ease of reading)

    all j.HK are 2 hits
    AFAIK works on everyone, only thing you have to change is the delay on the first j.MP(double doesn't get any delay..and you can only get 3 hits from MP, I believe every other character gets 4 hits)
    only tricky part is timing j.HK low to the ground while still getting 2 hits, but IMO it's still much easier than timing the j.HP
     
  37. @OmniSScythe

    @OmniSScythe Valentine Player

    @Nyagamun

    I tested it out since I though "j.MK, j.HK, airdash j.HP," was neat.

    Turns out while I guess it does more damage the basic version of pulsr combo, the extended version does up to 7k meterless.
     
  38. Nyagamun

    Nyagamun New Member

    well mine still does 6500 without meter, and it's not optimized at all so I'm sure some one (I'll try) can eek out a bit more damage somewhere
    my favorite part is also that part, mostly because it re-stands most characters if you do it right
    also, I still don't know what the pulsr combo is >_<
     
  39. @OmniSScythe

    @OmniSScythe Valentine Player



    Pretty much this, mostly the beginning up to the part with the dash jumps are finished when most people mention pulsr combo.
     
  40. Nyagamun

    Nyagamun New Member

    mine does the same damage without the FP FP
    is there something that makes it more damaging?
    are those actually dash jumps? THAT'S why I could never get that style of combo >_<
    so yeah, my combo should be MUCH easier than that one

    one great thing about the combo as well, with all the air dashes, you can j.LK cross up reset most characters
    also worth mentioning, you can stop the last string early and do a late super in order to launch them back into the corner
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2013

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