Discussion in 'Valentine' started by Camail, Sep 3, 2013.
u wot m8
Basically, what the video is saying is that it is better to do a shorter combo that has a bunch of heavy attacks at the start than a longer combo with lots of multi hit lights/mediums due to the way that damage is scaled in combos.
For example, your combo starts off with three lights then a a couple of multi-hit mediums before you do cr.HP. A better starter might be cr.LP or cr.LK (or LPx3 so that you can visually confirm it hit), cr.MK, cr.HP. You still have time to see if it hit the opponent or if they blocked but it also won't reduce your combo's damage too much. Combos with lots of hits also build a lot of meter for your opponent.
So here is different combo that should deal more damage without being too much more complicated:
Cr.LK, cr.mk, cr.hp, j.hp, j.hk, qcf.hk, qcf.mk, dash, lk, MP, HP, qcf.hk, qcf.KK. This only uses one bar and hopefully isn't too complicated so feel free to give it a try (if you want you can also just do EKG/qcf.KK after the second air bypass).
Hope that explanation helped :)
What Lex said. Don't do combos that start with multi hitting moves, cuz you're killing all your damage.
Scaling in SG is at its worst at 15 hits, so basic combo optimization theory is to make those first 15 hits count by throwing in as many hard hitting attacks possible, then milking as many hits possible after 15 hits without breaking drama/undizzy or IPS.
ahhh, i see. thought it was saying to only do 3-hit combos or something like that. thanks for clarifying :)
A simpler way to put it maybe is, If you have a move that does 500 damage TOTAL but it hits 10 times, it's way worse to use that move over a move that hits once and does 450.
Because after doing 10 hits, all the hits that come after that have their damage massively reduced.
When the damage scaling in a combo is at maximum lowness, then it's much better to use that move that does 500 damage total for 10 hits than the single hitting move that does 450 (if you just care about damage), because the scaling of the combo doesn't matter any more.
edit: also, this is related i think
the combo w/bait on both 2v2 and 3v2 is meter positive, so you don't really need to start with meter on 3v2
Still messing with side stuff rather than my own team for Combo Breaker. Here's a good combo with Brass. It's worked on everyone I've tested it on but Double, but I'll make sure if it works on everyone else later, and I'll also probably find a way to throw some poison in it somewhere.
Spoiler (Move your mouse to the spoiler area to reveal the content)
Now with sound and slightly better video quality, woo.
edit: Like I said above, here's that one with poison.
Spoiler (Move your mouse to the spoiler area to reveal the content)
Again, I have no idea who all this works on.
beep boop i've been productive today
Valentine M Bomber Midscreen Combo:
cr.LK, cr.MK, HP, M Bomber + M Bypass
j.HP, M Bypass
j.HK, H Bypass
ADC, j.MK, j.HK
j.LP, j.MP, M Bypass
LK, MPx2, cr.MK, HP, H Bypass, Savage Bypass
1 bar, 8108 damage.
hi i made more resets with m bomber and updo and LV. 1 hitstun vial things.
The raw tag combo midscreen works on double, BB, and beo. When Val is in the corner first, it's universal.
FPS and quality is not ok but do-able.
looked a bit here and didnt see this posted so i'll post it
 there was one socks did but i think this one is easier and maybe more consistent
[edit2] need to exclude the jlp against big band and maybe double. vs lights is better not doing cmk. pretty universal
Anyone know an assistless universal HCH corner combo?
when get a hch i just do my corner combo and instead of ending on super i end on shp h bypass then 1 more groundstring using otg.
same. or i try to fit in as many bypasses in the combo as possible.
Here are a couple Valentine corner carry combos (one solo and one with M Bomber):
Inputs for assistless:
cr.LK, cr.MK, cr.HP, j.HP, ADC, j.MP (2), j.HP, dash jump, j.LP, j.MP
(2), j.HK, ADC, j.MK (1), j.HP (ff), LPx3, MK (MP if in the corner),
cr.HP, j.LK, j.MP, j.HK, H Bypass, Snap
For the assisted one, just replace the ADC, j.MK (1) with the assist and dash up and it doesn't have to be with M Bomber, any good corner carry assist should be fine.
Assistless it should cover ~2/3rds of the screen and with M Bomber (this will vary between assists of course) it'll cover three quarters of the screen.
(Thanks Receita for showing me that you can add the j.MK (1) for the solo route).
Will this also work with H Bomber?
It should work yes.
Is there a way to do this combo with assists from Eliza, Parasoul, or Squigly instead of Cerebella? It seems that the opponent can just ground tech when it comes to the 3rd hit of s.HK and then your entire combo will end.
uh yeah thats not supposed to work the same way with other assists aside from maybe h a-train. you should be able to do the combo with just 1 vial load using h osiris spiral or dnb but i'm not sure of that.
I know you can do OTG HKx3, M Bomber + vial load and combo from there so you should be able to do it with Cerecopter, Butcher's Blade, H Osiris Spiral and DnB. I don't think Parasoul has any assists that let you vial load and combo (maybe Napalm pillar launches them high enough?).
using otg and loading just 1 vial, you can do with many assists including pillar. but loading 2 i think only excelebella and h a-train and maybe some other gimmick
From what I can tell I can only get one vial from using my assists, the issue is, when you do OTG HKx3 and call in the assist for a vial load, the opponent can easily ground tech out and then your combo drops.
Which I tested it and it actually applies to Double's M Bomber + vial assist where they can ground tech.
Is this how the combo is supposed to function?
You have to call the assist pretty much immediately after the third hit and then input the vial load. It takes a bit of practice to get it consistent.
Here's an example from a couple pages back.
Thanks, I'll practice it.
EDIT: Okay, I found out that near the end of the second hit of HK you have to mash assist while still getting in the third hit of HK, this makes it a lot easier than what I was trying to do before.
A combo thing, I find it slightly easier to do than the Excelebella combo, but I think it does less damage? Plus it tends to whiff often for me when you try to use s.MP after vial load on Peacock, idk if that's an actual problem with the combo or if I just need to practice it more.
Also, any advice on how to do j.HP xx Savage Bypass ADC j.HP xx Savage Bypass? It tends to whiff often for me in the corner when it comes to the ADC part after Savage Bypass.
Make sure Val is right in front of or above them. It's also better if you test each level of bypass. This means like how high you want them.
M Bypass would be higher because your cooldown is less, but does more damage then light, and then you can possibly still use j.HP into H Bypass.
Also use double jump if air dash doesn't work.
You have to try and do the air dash and j.HP as soon as possible (stick dashing gives you a buffer for this btw). I've found that on lights, if you miss time it then the j.HP may hit but it'll cross them up and mess up your bypass, so be careful of that.
The combo does less damage than the Excellabella one because the Excellabella combo because that one allows you to get a level 2 vial. You've also got counter hits on so this is a light counter hit combo (gives you 25 more undizzy to work with and the first attack does 2x damage I believe ). Without the counter hit, you'd be at 240 undizzy, so this combo wouldn't work. After butcher's blade, do LK, MPx2, HKx2 (remove the MK and add a LK.
I meant Excelebella as in it's one vial instead of two and damage from an assist other than Excelebella which I should have clarified.
And I didn't know counter hits do that so, guess I'll test again, but this combo is somewhere to start with Valentine, right? Recently picked her up.
OKAY, I FIGURED IT OUT AND MADE IT HAPPEN.
Any way to optimize this combo or is this about as much damage as I'm going to get?
w/ the new backdash airdash, you should be able to input a jhk, h bypass, vial throw when sekhmet is hitting
that way, you get the complete groundstring.
if undizzy shits in the combo, you can change jhk por jmk
Is that possible after the vial charge?
from what i see in your video, it should be
I'll test it out then, thanks.
So, as I was trying to do the backdash airdash J.HK thing I looked at JDbbx's combo and varied it a little so it would work like this here.
I find this combo way easier to do than the one before and it deals slightly less damage. The only thing I find kind of difficult is hitting LP after the vial toss, you can do s.LP or c.LP, either way I think it takes practice to get that right, otherwise nothing really hard, seems to work on pretty much everyone, for Double/Big Band you have to delay the assist call and S.HP slightly and for mediums you have to delay the M Savage Bypass slightly so that they drop down properly.
Okay, now that I've said that, exactly how fast do I have to do this backdash airdash J.HK/J.MK move and is there any trick to it? I'm finding it incredibly hard to use in the combo, but really want to see how much extra damage I can get and then see if it's worth trying to do in actual matches or if I should just stick to the basic combo.
Which the one I posted here can still use the backdash airdash J.HK/J.MK move, right?
are you doing in the beta or retail? backdash airdash got buffed on beta only
And wait, it got buffed? In what way? Because I'm legit struggling here with this mechanic, though, I can test it on beta.
you can do it by pressing <,<,> instead of <,<,>,>
and yes, backdash airdash jhk does work on your combo, got 8.8k putting that + bypass + vial instead of smp
That sounds nice, makes it easier to perform.
And thanks for testing it out, I think I'll use this combo as my go-to for the corner. Now to experiment with midscreen combos.
By the way, is Valentine/Eliza used by anyone known? Or do people typically involve a third team member? Trying to figure out if I want to use Valentine/Eliza or Valentine/Eliza/Squigly or Parasoul.
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