Discussion in 'Valentine' started by GHNeko, Sep 3, 2013.
Air Dash Cancel
so jump, heavy punch, and airdash after the jHP hits to finish it faster, then jMP.
Am I missing something about s.HK(2) Call MK Bomber Vial Hazard s.HP Vial Toss s.LP or is it just a tight link?
It's a tight-ish link
Not THAT tight, but yeah, kinda tight. 3 or 4f, iirc.
I noticed you can press the assist button (default macro bindings) and you will get the second hit of s.HK and call assist at the same time. Does bomber have to be called then or earlier than s.hk(2)?
It depends. Do you want your OTG?
This is something small but idk if it's just me, when I try to do combo cHP jLP jMK jLK, the jLK doesn't come out. It used to before and it crossed up, but now it doesn't work, or at least for me. Did they change this?
Are you air dash canceling into j.lk?
Well it does work if i ADC, but i swear i never needed to before. Weird.
If you're referring to the sHK + bomber part, I usually set my A2 Macro to HK+MP for this and some Filia/Double things. HK A2 = sHKx2+Bomber
If you're referring to the Load during bomber > sHP, it's always been kinda rough for me. I've only ever gone for raw sHP if a vial was loaded prior to starting the combo and undizzy's already working against me.
If you're referring to the vial link, Vial > sLP takes some practice but is still much easier than Vial > cLK. I usually focus on watching Val's throwing hand on the return to idle and time it based on that.
How often do you guys s.hp during neutral?
If I know the opponent loves pressing buttons in start the start of round, I sometimes throw it out to fish for counterhits. Used it in match against Twerk's fortune once. Beat out a IAD j.hp(? that's the one where she crosses her arms right?) on reaction. Caused her to whiff and I got a CH. I don't throw it out as much as I want to.
Wins against some low throw stuff, against some mashed stuff. I've been using a lot, and I can get a combo with lnl.
Anyone know a good way to convert off of air throw that doesn't use assists? Or uses L Extend.
Also preferably doesn't use j.MP right away. So far I've either got Scalpels -> j.MP or Scalpels -> Bypass -> j.MP, there also exists a way to convert with bomber but that uses an assist that isn't L Extend.
Kinda jelly that most other characters have a good air throw but Valentine's requires meter to follow off of most of the time and also scales the combo to shit.
I think in the beta vial now does that??? but i'm not sure since i don't have it
What do you mean? I recall Duckator using Dead Cross to convert but as far as I remember it only worked on low heights but that was Retail.
scalpels, air dash j.mk j.hp, land, j.lk j.hk adc j.mp j.hk into whatever. Usually go for a reset by then.
Air grab - scalpels- ad j.mk/call beat extend - hp/hk loops depending on character weight
Here's a list of the characters that allow you conversions with L toss j.lp s.lp c.hp in the corner without wasting meter or air dashes.
Anyone know if val's level 3 actually scales by 3 hits, or is it similar to bella's showstopper, scaling wise?
Anyone got any advice on how to get in on zoning Robofortune? I swear her stuff seems harder to get past than peacock's wall of projectiles.
In all seriousness, use a combination of j.mk AD j.mk, j.hk AD j.mk, and J.hk AD j.mp to control the screen. Depending on assists, you have to play more conservatively (namely rush punch, beat extend, pillar, hk twirl, butchers blade, copter) otherwise go nuts
val's hot. also reallyy good. better than shit caracters like peacock
I'm a greenhorn in this game and was wondering what the preferred assists for Val with BB/Eliza would be.
I keep c.MK for Val, if she's ever not on point. And I'm having trouble deciding between Beat Extend, Brass Knuckles, or even Take The A Train for BB, and either Osiris Spiral or Butcher's Blade/Carpenter's Axe for Eliza.
And what would be the pros and cons of each assist?
Val has terrible reversals without meter so Beat Extend would be brilliant for covering that. Brass Knuckles would probably be better if you like to play keep away Val (though it can be useful for getting in). Both of those would make for good alpha counters as well. Dunno about A Train.
Osiris Spiral would be great for Val as it accentuates her already great mixup game. Butcher's blade also does this but at the cost of meter (more range and it has hyper armour though so it can be used as an alpha counter). Dunno about Carpenter's Axe.
I personally would recommend Beat Extend and Osiris Spiral.
For Eliza, I'd go with Carpenter's Axe because mixups.
For Big Band, Beat Extend, always.
just use L beat extend.
H Osiris Spiral: good lockdown, does crazy amount of chip, builds good meter. Doesn't have the horizontal range like Cerecopter tho.
Butchers Blade: Hyper Armor, great horizontal range, good lockdown. Costs some meter and has some start up.
Carpenter's Axe: Hyper Armor, OVERHEAD (val doesn't have those), good horizontal range. Costs meter and has some start up.
L Extend is better for Val than Brass or A-Train by a long shot - The only thing H Brass gives you is a bridge to get in their face and rush them down. . But, Val isn't Filia or Beowulf so her up close mixup isn't ridiculous. She is better when playing & baiting at neutral, and L Extend is great for that. Edit: She also gets assist whiff punishes but the damage on their assist and the damage on H BRass from them punishing it results in an inconsistent gameplan - it is better to whiff punish assists with air shuriken to lock them out then get to L Extend range.
For an Eliza assist, I would say Butcher's blade is best for your team composition since it can open up lockdown situations for Val to get a mixup or prep a needle while they have to block, as well as giving Big Band a useful assist to make his Beat Extends, Brasses and A-Trains safe at closer spacings.
Unless you were looking specifically to use c.MK to get meaty low assist on your oppponent's wakeup with Eliza and Big Band's slide knockdowns, I would say use HK Savage Bypass to give you an option to play better fullscreen game with Eliza & Big Band, like a quasi fireball, and potential pickups from things like after big band's SSJ. It also pushes your opponent back on block so if you want to play more of a spacing game with Eliza & Big Band that is a good assist to use on pressure.
fucking use backdash airdash j.MP/j.LK/j.HP you fkn
I'm actually kinda lit, so I can't make the long winded post (EDIT before posting NEVERMIND LOL) I want to on this because I'm not even gonna be assed to read everyone else's (I glanced, hi ClarenceMage!)
I'm also usually the advocate for LOL BUT THIS ASSIST IS COOL-
LBeat, just do it. I'm also the advocate for mid/anchor Val and all that nonsense.
Point Val + DP = Good, LBeat = Best DP. Roll with it, trust. A-Trains let you do some vial load stuff but Excellabella is the real gimmick assist to run for that all day if you're really gonna do that. Though... A-Train has that armor.. I forgot that. Nice.
I'm sure Val/Brass is OK but it's not my style. HBrass is always a good assist though, somewhere right below LBeat in the terms of 'best assists in the game' (IMHO) NICE Big Band. Countercalls HURT.
I agree with Val/Butcher because lockdowns are nice for Val, and she can also regain the meter in-combo for the butcher assist! I've tested it/done it before... sometime somewhere.
I also think it's also one of the crappier lockdowns for her though, and ur like, lol wtf its butcher have u seen that armor, but it does have startup time (all sekh assists, well, all two of them that matter) and my issue is the scaling and that I honestly feel I get more from like, bomber (scaling isn't as bad, good carry) and hairball (scaling probably is as bad, but this is still a good armor breakign assist and it comes out much quicker than butcher). You DO get some crazy alternative things though, like, MIDSCREEN vial load combos. I would reset after them, though, into the vial + load another if you need to (with the assist) and then I guess reset again, that scaling is.. yeah.
I dunno about Val/Axe but BB/Axe is DUMB, LOL and I think you should try it/do it. I dunno if it's dumb on offense or w/e but in terms of damage in the corner lmao at BB/Axe, seriously. All about this.
Spiral is a godlike assist (mixups on hit and block vs ground or air that are good, chip, the hitboxes, the lockdown) still and if you can call it right A++ so give it a shot but my tldr is
Val cMK/BB LBeat/Eliza Axe
cMK is a pretty decent low/lockdown and I dunno how BB benefits from that, but Eliza should like it, in my experience with Eliza/Squig cHP. BB might can do Val cMK + instant overhead jMK?
LBeat because reasons above, this DP is the God
Axe because lol that damage and it's overhead and armored, it has some nice anti mash setups with other characters, I bet Val/BB could work that too, but you need to learn how/when to call it specifically
Val has HBypass but I'm not a HUGE fan of BB/Bypass or Eliza/Bypass (yet) but its a high damage one hit combo extender that can also help with long range confirms (on the characters I like it with, again, no clue about BB or Eliza in regards to that)
Val has Throw and honestly that throw is godlike but I am terrible at throw assist (Taluda please help us all)
sHP is actually an underground Val assist (lmao underground, im terrible, please) that some people like and it's cool and I dunno how to tell you why or what it's good for, might be crap
??? I think that's it and that's why cMK is your Val assist. Mort drop probably is real.. some.. how. (I'll lab it ayy lmao)
I think I covered all bases. Don't let people buy you free liquor.
I didn't expect a reply so quickly, but thank Zeus you guys are on it. Thank you everyone for your inputs. I'll lab it up with all these suggestions to see what seems to work. But I'll also try it out in the heat of matches to really be sure. I'm glad to see the SG community is really friendly and generally want everyone to grow together. It's amazing to see what can be done when everyone supports one another.
I'm really looking forward to learning about this game.
Also, I can't get enough of this Fortune emoji.
I like you, but I'm really sad that emoji is now the default choice over emoticon.
Oh god, I'm becoming old.
Hey this my first post on Skullheart (YAY!!!). Main pieces are Val/Robo/Eliza currently (Side chicks are Painwheel and Ms. Fortune). I wanna know if its okay to post a video here in this thread. I want someone to analyze my gameplay and see what i can improve on if that's okay.
I think that creating a training diary for yourself might be better, since you may want people analyzing your Robo and Eliza performance as well.
thats a better idea. Thank you.
MY GOD, MAI VALENTINE FROM YUGIOH, THEN CAME MAI SHIRINUI AND FINALLY NURSE VALENTINE.
THE TRINITY OF BOOBS IS COMPLETE.
Do you guys still think L Beat Extend is better for Val? I see few reasons to run that instead of M Beat Extend
with my team, I run M extend to better compliment Bella, and in stare downs M gives me more time to press buttons after Band assist is blocked.
Once you get used to the slight timing difference between L and M extend, I don't see a blaring reason to go back.
yeah i also went from l to m, was just looking older posts and thinking if people still think l be is the way to go for val
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