Discussion in 'Valentine' started by Nuuance, Sep 5, 2013.
idk what to think about this
It's kind of annoying when you're trying to get scalpels as quickly as possible after corner mort drop and you end up getting an auto-corrected L3.
Airthrow reset works from here while they're still carrying the inertia from the jHP:
Spoiler (Move your mouse to the spoiler area to reveal the content)
It's also a good time to go for another crossup jHP if you trust that they're not mashing or don't have a great ground reversal:
Spoiler (Move your mouse to the spoiler area to reveal the content)
I need to play with it a bit more, but I think it'll also be possible to
backdash with them after the jHP so you stay to the right of them and then adc forward with jMK/jMP and hit same-side high. jMK would be nice because you can layer it with jMK(1) jHP fastfall low/throw.
If they're too high for those to work, backdash with them and then doublejump out of the backdash for crossup jHP should work.
jHP and just double jump or airdash over them so that updo call becomes a crossup while you get to block a reversal/mash.
Simple beta bypass conversions from the jHP seemed easy enough so the jHK conversion timing isn't as vital.
Also found that [jLP jMK(1) jHK(1) adc jHP!] and [jLK jMP(1) jHK(1) adc jHP!] will work with some heights/characters.
A safejump I found for Val
That safejump might not work on the following:
Updo L (fast)
360 (throw your downback)
Para level 3 (para's turnover from you blocking it after RC soldier)
Val Counter (self-explanatory)
Armour in general (hitstop might keep you in place too long)
Daisy Pusher (punish 2f landing from air move, maybe)
Peacock Bang MP (hard to punish, -9)
Any slow invuln move will lose to this, though.
This actually goes for pretty much any safejump in the game, though.
I tested it against some of those and with a specific timing you can beat updo fenrir, para's level 3, and mp bang. I was in the air when did daisy pusher so I could probably air dash. I specifically rember bb and fukua being able to get out easy though.
You can totally punish H Brass assist ON HIT with scalpels.
BETA stuff. Let's do this more, yeah?
This works on
Beowulf and Valentine
Weird to do. j.hp timing is strict, or else it doesn't cross.
So this is basically a compilation of tech that I've been meaning to share for a while. Corner midair crossups:
Because letting your opponents hit the ground is being too nice.
sick stuff datagram. i've been looking for some air resets to do on Bella since resetting her on the ground is scary as hell
I haven't tested it for reversals, but there's this thing. Who else plays Val+beat extend?
So if they block the cross-up, it pushes them back to the original side? Nice.
I suspect that there are other assists that you might be able to achieve this with. I'll probably mess around with it when I get home.
Mayor does this with Cilia Slide instead of Bypass.
Thresher will catch it, most other air supers won't.
Tested against thresher. Beat extend will whiff, get hit, or in VERY rare cases beat it out. Bypass however can low profile thresher on start up.
Not sure if this is standard tech but a short cut for instant overhead is double tap back and two buttons to instantly air dash forward. Using this technique you can essentially avoid attacks and punish very quickly. It's also really powerful in mix-ups due to it's overall speed.
Best moves out of it are j.mk, j.mp, j.lp, and j.hk
This is a pretty standard tech, but I avoid to use it because I can't do dash with PP, and doing double tap back > double tap forward feels weird on keyboard.
This old-ass guide covers it.
New double snap combo for those who thought j.hp adc j.hp *land* launch was too hard:
snap, OTG c.mk c.hp, slight delayed jump, H savage bypass
is this also called 'reset'?
Why did it take me 2 years to realize that lvl2/lvl3 green vial stacks with CH undizzy bonuses?
Well, I thought it was a neat reset.
Sorry if this is all old tech but I found a couple variations of a full undizzy burst bait in the corner:
cr.HP, j.HP, ADC, j.MP, j.HP, jb.LK (can be followed up with j.HK, scalpels, cr.MK if they don't burst right away)
cr.HP, j.HP, j.HK, ADC, j.MP, j.HP, jb.LK (same followup)
cr.HP, j.HP, ADC, j.MP, j.HP, jb.MK (first hit only), j.HK (into scalpels etc if they don't burst)
I've done a bit of testing on various characters (this was all done in the beta but I'd assume it would work in the normal version of the game as well) but haven't managed to try it on all of them yet. The first one works on Beowulf, Eliza, Ms Fortune, Robo Fortune and Valentine but not BB, Squigly or Double, the second works on Beowulf, BB, Robo Fortune, Ms Fortune, Valentine and Eliza but not Squigly, the third works on all heavies and Beowulf but not Eliza, Ms Fortune, Valentine. None of them work on Cerebella, Filia, Squigly, Parasoul, Painwheel or Peacock.
If I haven't listed a character it is because I haven't tried that reset with said character though I intend to test the other characters later. Also, with the jb.LK ones, the timing can vary per character (there is a tiny delay with BB and Eliza but not Robo Fortune).
If it's an undizzy burst bait, why would you do it with j.lk? j.lp has better reach and it's almost a sure hit.
Also, j.lp j.hk (1) backdash is IMO the most optimal burst setup in this case. If they burst, cancel the backdash into H air bypass.
j.lk is far less obvious than j.lp (which most people will know is used for Val burst baits by now I would think as it is her goto burst bait).
You can also use it as an IPS burst bait rather than going for Datagram's reset in the corner, so you can either go for a 1 frame cross up or a burst bait (instead of doing j.lp earlier in the combo swap it out with j.lk). That way you can catch the people mashing their midair reversals and it looks like you just made a mistake with your combo (especially if you've done the reset earlier or they know about it).
I'm not saying it is better than j.lp or that it is even practical, though I do think it could have uses, I just wanted to share.
Also, I thought you could only cancel backdash with a jump? and why would you backdash, I'm pretty sure the burst won't hit you even if you don't (it didn't this morning when I tried it).
If the enemy is high in the air and he is at full undizzy he usually IS expecting a burst bait, no matter what move is used.
Also, some characters have larger burst hitboxes (like Big Band, Eliza and Parasoul, iirc), and backdash ensures that you won't get hit by those characters.
j.LP left me vulnerable to a burst on the first hit when I tried it after cr.hp, j.hp, ADC, j.mp, j.hp in the corner (it worked against BB and Double but with Eliza required strict timing). Also, if their burst is within range to hit you when you are doing j.HK then they could just burst before your j.HK hits and you would get hit by it I imagine.
Does anyone remember what the values are on Valentine's poisons?
Level 1 is 5% poison that doesn't drain past 10%
Level 2 is 10% poison that doesn't drain past 10%
Level 3 is 15% poison that doesn't drain past 1% and only goes away when hit by a super
Thanks, what about Green and Orange?
I think Orange is 3/6/9 frames of delay per level respectively, but I want to confirm.
green level 1: Adds 20f to all hit stuns/block stuns
green level 2: Adds 30f to all hit stuns/block stuns and subtracts 50 Drama
green level 3: Adds 40f to all hit stuns/block stuns subtracts 100 Drama
orange level 1: Adds 4f of input lag
orange level 2: Adds 6f of input lag
orange level 3: Adds 9f of input lag
corner cross-up with val
Wow. I didn't know it actually removed drama. That makes it more useful than I thought. Thanks!
did someone say corner bypass tech?
OK, so I was doing some research into Val's purple poison to figure out exactly how much damage it adds and I've found that things aren't as neat as originally told.
Vial Damage (projectile)
x1.00 = 400
x1.30 = 520
x1.45 = 580
vs 100% HP, 15,500
Lv1 dmg 953 = 6.1484%
Lv2 dmg 1906 = 12.2968%
Lv3 dmg 2393 = 15.4387%
Lv1/2 stop dmg 1550 = 10%
Lv3 stop dmg 155 = 1%
vs 115% HP, 17,825
Lv1 dmg 957 = 5.3689%
Lv2 dmg 1913 = 10.7321%
Lv3 dmg 2869 = 16.0954%
Lv1/2 stop dmg 1782 = 10%
Lv3 stop dmg 178 = 1%
vs 205% HP, 31,775
Lv1 dmg 1908 = 6.0047%
Lv2 dmg 3349 = 10.5397%
Lv3 dmg 4790 = 15.0747%
Lv1/2 stop dmg 3177 = 10%
Lv3 stop dmg 317 = 1%
I wanted to find out what would do more damage between using purple poison's DoT or using green poison's extra dama to work with, but for some reason you can't start a combo with a green vial and get the drama bonus?
I could see green vial letting you squeeze an extra bypass into something like this
it'll be hard fitting it in early enough to exceed poison damage though but I plan to mess with it when I get home
If you do IAD j.HP (CH) > level 3 green vial your undizzy value hits -200 meaning you have 440 undizzy to work with off a jump-in (340 if no CH). That is reaching SDE level combo length and I think it might end up surpassing poison's extra damage. ESPECIALLY since because you start the combo with the green vial in stage 1, you have the entire rest of the combo to do whatever and even get another poison load and hit in.
Near the end of the combo, though, it'd probably be more worth going for purple, because you're reaching your IPS limit as well as your undizzy limit.
Just found that the vials subtract 20 less than normal if you are in stage 3 or higher.
So -30 for level 2 and -80 for level 3.
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