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We're All Spoiled (Observation)

Vancouver gathering on Jan 4th. Now that work has cleared up a bit, might be doing monthlies at my office.

Check out the Vancouver board for more info
 
My home is Orlando (here for holidays) but I go to school in Miami. One thing with meet ups is that I mainly don't go to one if its at someones house and I don't know them. That's just me though. So when I'm at school I know some people and play with them, its a very casual thing and its a good mix of games. Only once one of them brought SG and we played. I forgot to get his number so cant contact him :/. Next topic: I rarely see much complaining about buffs or nerfs in this community, maybe I am numb to it? Finally, I will admit I am a training mode monster but I honestly feel that at my level of execution that's where I should be lol.
 
Define "frequeunt congregation for SG". I pretty much play SG for a bit at Foonzo here in Montreal every other week. In fact, I just played it yesterday at the air dasher monthly tournament during casuals. I just wouldn't call it a dedicated SG local scene, by the standards of competitive players at least. Though I think there was a local scene here before, but I'm pretty sure they're dead now.

Foozo is mainly BB/GG and maybe a couple other non-SG games.
By "frequent congregation for SG" I mean having something like Salty Cupcakes where people go mainly for SG instead of partially.
 
Foozo is mainly BB/GG and maybe a couple other non-SG games.
By "frequent congregation for SG" I mean having something like Salty Cupcakes where people go mainly for SG instead of partially.

I always have SG running at my Ottawa weeklies in some capacity. From start to finish. Y'all need to step up to my level...

If only we had more than 3 players.
 
I always have SG running at my Ottawa weeklies in some capacity. From start to finish. Y'all need to step up to my level...

If only we had more than 3 players.

Three players are better than none. =(

I would kill for another two or three players.
 
Well then you better get that gun ready
chansub-global-emoticon-60aa1af305e32d49-23x30.png
LOL!
 
Foozo is mainly BB/GG and maybe a couple other non-SG games.

I wouldn't say Foonzo is mainly BB/GG. They only use the 3 PS3s in the corner and people come to Foonzo for SF more or less just as frequent, though they mostly play on the 360 cab setups. Getting meetups mainly for SG going would be pretty easy. All they would have to do is come setup at one of the couches and play. The only real effort required is those people finding each other.
 
Three players are better than none. =(

I would kill for another two or three players.


I have no offline scene, but with the pc version the online scene out here became relatively big... Like somewhere around 10 players total.

Whats your online scene like? Who do you play against? You seem to have experience but ive never heard of any of your competitors, and id like to :)
 
I have no offline scene, but with the pc version the online scene out here became relatively big... Like somewhere around 10 players total.
why don't you hang with us? We hold a tourney every friday and you never hop into the group chat

are we not fly enough to hang with radical homeboys such as yourself :o
 
why don't you hang with us? We hold a tourney every friday and you never hop into the group chat

are we not fly enough to hang with radical homeboys such as yourself :o


Tbqh, i dont like his version of the game, i find it lacking in balance in many respects and i dont find it NEARLY as fun as sde. My perfect version was probably mde or sde against players that didnt abuse the tag and dhc into full combo cheese. This version makes grab resets totally ass and i really dislike that.

And there are other things as well.

Tldr

I'm not playing at my best right now because the game inherently punishes my grab heavy playstyle, and i havent totally adjusted to that yet, plus the op things that are in the game anyways.
 
I've got one person who was interested in Skullgirls, and one who loved the design. Don't know if she ever played it. I fought the dude who was interested in it, and he seemed to like it. That seems to be the extent of Skullgirls up here in NW Georgia. Unless I wanna go down to Georgia Tech or the other campus that I can't remember the name of (And I want to go to both. But I can't.)

Training mode is something I still have issues with due to some sort of anger management issues. It carries over from when I practice rudiments, and say my hand freezes for a second. I flip out and throw the stick, almost like what happens when I practice in FG's. So many toys and candies and sweets in SG's training mode, too!

And lastly, Patches, I wouldn't consider myself decent, but the move from Console to PC at first messed with me because of Fortune's s.HK changed. Granted, I experimented with it, and now use it as a sort of anti-air/"overhead" (Or pressure), but that's it. I don't care for patches unless it involves Big Band receiving stuff right now.
 
I have no offline scene, but with the pc version the online scene out here became relatively big... Like somewhere around 10 players total.

Whats your online scene like? Who do you play against? You seem to have experience but ive never heard of any of your competitors, and id like to :)

Oh, I added Khaos again immediately since we had some fun matches on xbl. It's pretty much just adding whoever I can find with a solid connection and an "advanced" skill level so it's a challenge. The PC community is alright for what it is, though. I can live with it for now.

It's strictly US and Canada though, anything else is in the mid 100's for me. And no word from any other Caribbean players. =/
 
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I live in Wyoming... my local scene is probably 1.5 - 3 hours away... not something I can realistically do weekly given a girlfriend, school, and a shitty job.

To the bit about daily updates:

I agree to an extent, but to play devil's advocate, some things don't need time to percolate. For example, if the dev's know that they do not want 8000+ damage in the game, then it takes one instance to know if a change is needed.

I also think the game has lasted long enough for at least a few truisms. One example is that Invuln DP assist is incredibly strong (virtually every top tier team uses at least one). Now how strong is a rough matter of opinion, and ultimately whether it is too strong is a matter for the developers to decide with our criticism being used (possibly) as merely one metric.

I guess the tl;dr is that some things do need to stick around and develop, but that in no way means that all things need to sit around and develop.
 
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The anti-air assists are clearly staying. Anyone who's still hoping otherwise needs to let it go

Anyway I agree that its time to let the game be for a long time. I'd prefer it if balance changes only happened once per year. Even in the most popular games people still go some time before discovering important things/techniques about a fighting game
 
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The anti-air assists are clearly staying. Anyone who's still hoping otherwise needs to let it go

Anyway I agree that its time to let the game be for a long time. I'd prefer it if balance changes only happened once per year. Even in the most popular games people still go some time before discovering important things/techniques about a fighting game

I wouldn't be so sure on anything. We are only 1 month out from the recent IPS changes, 3 months out from the addition of dizzy, and about the same for the last updo nerf/unnerf. I would say nothing in this game is at al set in stone.

In fact, there's an entire thread about that sentiment... you're posting in it.
 
No matter what anybody would like to happen - The Console Version WILL be obsolete anyway once Big Band becomes playable and it will begin another several month long period of waiting for the console patch.
[snip]
But I think the real reason Mike made so many changes to the PC version during MDE is that he wanted the best possible patch to submit for the Console version because once its on there its going to be stuck like that for a while. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
1) I sincerely hope it won't be months between PC BB and console BB, that's sort of the point of all this crap we're going through right now.
2) You're basically right about why there was all that stuff between SDE/MDE/now, although you did neglect to mention the huge time elapsed between those. :^) I don't want to screw with the game too much from here. If people think homing plane is top tier or haven't learned to chicken-block DP assists I don't even know what to say anymore.
and
3) @Dime_x, your perfect version of the game being "let's play XSF and agree not to use infinites" MDE implies MDE was busted. "I really enjoyed SF2:WW without throws" does not equate to "WW was a good game".
 
1) I sincerely hope it won't be months between PC BB and console BB, that's sort of the point of all this crap we're going through right now.
2) You're basically right about why there was all that stuff between SDE/MDE/now, although you did neglect to mention the huge time elapsed between those. :^) I don't want to screw with the game too much from here. If people think homing plane is top tier or haven't learned to chicken-block DP assists I don't even know what to say anymore.
and
3) @Dime_x, your perfect version of the game being "let's play XSF and agree not to use infinites" MDE implies MDE was busted. "I really enjoyed SF2:WW without throws" does not equate to "WW was a good game".

Are you guys not concerned with the over-popularity of certain characters and/or assists?

The community and cast are likely both too small to make too much of a generalization, but there are definite trends.

Since not all assists are created equally, you'll likely always see a DP on most top teams (note... this doesn't mean that they aren't counterable, but it does mean that they are disproportionately represented, likely for a reason, at almost all levels of play).
 
Are you guys not concerned with the over-popularity of certain characters and/or assists?
Eh, no? First-order optimal junk isn't really a way to judge what a game is, and considering the majority of the community is still mashing reversal supers/not PBGC'ing/not punishing up-back, there's a ways to go before any determination can be made. There's also the "just because good people don't play ___ doesn't mean they aren't any good" thing.
There will always be a top tier. As long as nobody is useless (shut up, Dime) and nobody is GGXXAC Eddie guaranteed-wins if they touch you, I don't mind some imbalance since there will ALWAYS be imbalance.

[edit] I also don't mind DP assists in general, because of all the ways SG has to deal with them that other games don't have.
 
How's about a PBGC tutorial from Ms. Victoria? Possibly one that'd teach me how to properly do it with a charge character? Pleeeeeeeeeease?
 
How's about a PBGC tutorial from Ms. Victoria? Possibly one that'd teach me how to properly do it with a charge character? Pleeeeeeeeeease?

I don't think it is possible with Bella charge moves, you need to be in neutral or holding down *not down back* and I think you can possibly hold up? It is very possible to flash kick with Parasoul out of a PBGC though.
 
There will always be a top tier. As long as nobody is useless (shut up, Dime) and nobody is GGXXAC Eddie guaranteed-wins if they touch you, I don't mind some imbalance since there will ALWAYS be imbalance.
What about character matchups? Like, how not-in-one-characters-favor does a matchup have to be for you to want to change something? And what ratio of the cast does a character have to have good matchups against before they're considered for a nerf?

Also, cause I'm typing (it's also on the topic of imbalance), any other considerings for other assist differences like updo (meaning would you consider it and are there any being considered)? You probably answered this already at some point, but I'm curious.
I don't think it is possible with Bella charge moves, you need to be in neutral or holding down *not down back* and I think you can possibly hold up? It is very possible to flash kick with Parasoul out of a PBGC though.
Charge moves are some of the easiest to PBGC. Hold back for the charge, block, pushblock, hit forward, hit your button. Like, Battle Butt PBGC is good. Napalm Pillar is good and easy too, I think, but you have to be crouch blocking for that, so you're susceptible to overheads.
 
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I don't think it is possible with Bella charge moves, you need to be in neutral or holding down *not down back* and I think you can possibly hold up? It is very possible to flash kick with Parasoul out of a PBGC though.
???
Last I checked it was possible, and I doubt that's been changed (in fact I'm pretty sure Peck PBGCs into Battle Ram when he's not got the meter for showstopper).
 
Ah yeah, you only need to be in neutral when PB ends. Well I guess it is possible for Bella, also you can use absolute guard to protect yourself *somewhat* from hi-lo while charging Pillar, still risky though...I like it ^.^.
 
What about character matchups? Like, how not-in-one-characters-favor does a matchup have to be for you to want to change something? And what ratio of the cast does a character have to have good matchups against before they're considered for a nerf?

Also, cause I'm typing, any other considerings for other assist differences like updo (meaning would you consider it and are there any being considered)? You probably answered this already at some point, but I'm curious.

Charge moves are some of the easiest to PBGC. Hold back for the charge, block, pushblock, hit forward, hit your button. Like, Battle Butt PBGC is good. Napalm Pillar is good and easy too, I think, but you have to be crouch blocking for that, so you're susceptible to overheads.


How many frames does Parasoul need to charge NP?

Potentially Pusblock > 14741[2] > 8+HK could work, making you safe from overheads while in pushblock charging.
 
How many frames does Parasoul need to charge NP?

Potentially Pusblock > 14741[2] > 8+HK could work, making you safe from overheads while in pushblock charging.
I don't really know. But, if you can pop a full charge during the pushblock animation it should be fine. Cutting it a little close though, maybe.
 
Personally, I have a lot of trouble PBGC into Pillar, but I have flippers for arms, so that could be the issue
 
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Charge moves require 35f to charge, pushblock animation is 25f, but if you're PBGCing you likely got touched again during pushblock, which will add probably around 10f of hitstop.

What about character matchups? Like, how not-in-one-characters-favor does a matchup have to be for you to want to change something? And what ratio of the cast does a character have to have good matchups against before they're considered for a nerf?

Also, cause I'm typing (it's also on the topic of imbalance), any other considerings for other assist differences like updo (meaning would you consider it and are there any being considered)? You probably answered this already at some point, but I'm curious.
Updo isn't different as an assist, it's different as point character because those 3 hits were TOO AWESOME not to keep. Which I suppose amounts to the same thing except that it'd have been 1 hit everywhere rather than 3. Plus it does other things detrimental as a point character, like not being able to get max damage unless they were deep and scaling your combo by 3 hits.
Does Pinion Dash not count? :^P

A matchup would have to be extremely bad for me to consider changing anything just for that matchup, because character changes affect other matchups also - like, Tager-vs-V13-in-CT-bad, or Sentinel/Thanos bad. In GGAC, I would've changed Eddie because he's stupid against the majority of the cast rather than for the Potemkin matchup specifically. You need to consider whether it is an inherent character flaw (Tager has no double jump and no forward movement that can be cancelled / Eddie can triple-unblockable everybody / Thanos has no air throw / Sentinel flies backward faster than most characters dash forward) or a matchup-specific problem, for instance if Nu was the only character that Tager's flaws mattered against or if they were universally problematic. Lots of things tend to come down to character flaws, but the way that defensive options work helps a lot with that, I think.

A matchup also has to do with the effort expended to win it with the advantage vs the effort expended to overcome that advantage. Tager/V13 or Tager/Arakune were pretty much an ACTUAL flowchart and it didn't matter what Tager did.
SG doesn't feel like it has anything even close to what would be a 7-3 or 8-2 in another game, to me, at this point.
It does have a community of people that didn't experience those matchups or actually spend years learning how to exploit common tactics from good characters, though, so they don't have a frame of reference. (^.^)
 
Is it possible you could just nerf duckator then? I know he has a 10-0 matchup vs me, and I think most people have a similar problem.
 
@Mike_Z

While you are here being candid, how would you rate SG balance? Are you guys happy with it, or are we still in "wait and see"?

Same question for the various assists and team sizes (for example, solo vs 2s/3s)?
 
Does Pinion Dash not count? :^P
Nnnnnnnnnah. Well, yeah. Sorta. No. Oh wait... Actually, yeah.
A matchup also has to do with the effort expended to win it with the advantage vs the effort expended to overcome that advantage. (...) SG doesn't feel like it has anything even close to what would be a 7-3 or 8-2 in another game, to me, at this point.

It does have a community of people that didn't experience those matchups or actually spend years learning how to exploit common tactics from good characters, though, so they don't have a frame of reference. (^.^)
So, what would you do if a situation ever arose in SG that was Tager VS 13 bad, but there was only one assist choice that could turn the matchup around? The correct thing to do as a player is to learn the character that has that one assist and learn to use it effectively, but how do you handle it if the matchup had a workaround like that where a different assist (or, in this case, only one specifically) makes things that much better?
 
With all the patches we receive, this game gave us more options than I can fathom. I am thankful for Skullgirls receiving those patches so it can continue to prosper. It even has an option in training mode where you can adjust the difficulty of a CPU opponent so you can develop strategies in different scenarios. I understand that you given options for the CPU to block, jump, and other things, but I never seen an option in other training modes of different games where you can adjust the CPU's difficulty (Unless I am mistaken). You do not see this type of constant upgrading everyday.
 
So, what would you do if a situation ever arose in SG that was Tager VS 13 bad, but there was only one assist choice that could turn the matchup around? The correct thing to do as a player is to learn the character that has that one assist and learn to use it effectively, but how do you handle it if the matchup had a workaround like that where a different assist (or, in this case, only one specifically) makes things that much better?
You'd have to give an example, since to my knowledge an assist like that wouldn't be unique?
 
What about character matchups? Like, how not-in-one-characters-favor does a matchup have to be for you to want to change something? And what ratio of the cast does a character have to have good matchups against before they're considered for a nerf?

Also, cause I'm typing (it's also on the topic of imbalance), any other considerings for other assist differences like updo (meaning would you consider it and are there any being considered)? You probably answered this already at some point, but I'm curious.

Charge moves are some of the easiest to PBGC. Hold back for the charge, block, pushblock, hit forward, hit your button. Like, Battle Butt PBGC is good. Napalm Pillar is good and easy too, I think, but you have to be crouch blocking for that, so you're susceptible to overheads.


Yeah, agreed.

In general i consider pbgc to be easy, though its mostly cause the best pbgcs in the game are generally mashable.

Easy imho:

Anything with invincibility that has a qcf input is stupid easy to pbgc. Just pushblock then qcf plus move at the timing you think the pbgc will be at, and after that just mash qcf plus the button. Easy ass option select for the timing. You just guess the actual timing, then input more shit on top of that in case you were wrong. Works for me about 85% of the time i would guess.

Second easiest for me is pillar... I just dont find it that difficult.

After that, i find srk pbgcs to be the third "easiest" though i dont find them to be easy at all, and generally dont waste my time with them. Qcb inputs are even harder for me to pbgc and and reverse dp motions... Bah... Fuck that.


So yeah, all in all i find pbgc to be very easy since all supers have invincibility and most have qcf inputs that are mashable.

Funnily enough though, i find it MUCH easier to pbgc into any super than the equivalent motion for regular moves.. The exception being peacocks argus and mp bang... Mp bang is much easier for me to pbgc into. I think this is because of invincibility times.
 
You'd have to give an example, since to my knowledge an assist like that wouldn't be unique?
Well, what about Big Band's giant step, no other move right now hits high and causes a full screen unblockable trip on the ground where it doesn't hit high. I guess we could use Peacock for this example, since she's the only one regularly trying to be at full screen. Back when she had 3 bombs and a better Double HK bomber, even though she wasn't Nu vs Tager broken (or anywhere close for anyone, I don't think), would you have changed anything about Peacock or Double if Giant Step could turn around any matchup she was in?

I'm sorry, none of that was really concrete to work with. I tend to be an abstract kinda guy. Basically, if the imaginary and abstract situation arose, would you want the player to learn say Big Band to win a match (meaning it's unwinnable without whoever), or would you change something to avoid forcing the player to have to learn this one specific team member? Basically wondering about your philosophy. Should the player be forced to play a certain specific way to win, or do you want the player to always have different team choice available?
 
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To me, what you're asking is "If a broken situation came up that's not actually possible, would you fix it?" in which case, the answer is "Of course!"...except that that situation isn't possible.
That's the problem with trying to be "an abstract kinda guy" and then ask about real situations. :^)

To attempt to address that...
I wouldn't want a player to have to learn Big Band or any other specific character in order to win a match. That's the goal of pretty-decent game balance - use who you want when you want.
But my tolerance for "You HAVE TO use X other character/tactic in this instance" is a lot higher than most people's - considering who I play in the games I play, I know you can get a lot farther than you think if you just stop complaining or really want to play whoever. So it takes a lot more for me to get to that decision. For instance, I don't even think Nu/Tager was bad enough to seriously tell people to learn another character if they're playing the game to play Tager.
I'd probably only say "You MUST use someone else" in like, #R Pot/Eddie or some matchups in MvC2, or vs Donvalve in arcade Battle Fantasia, etc.

That's not to say that "You could use someone else and it'd be a whole lot easier" won't apply, but there's a large difference between the path of least resistance ("I don't like losing and I don't like learning!") and a completely unwinnable matchup.
 
tl;dr: There's only been like 4 or 5 10:0 matchups in FG history, and that includes both directions of SF2 Gief vs. Honda.

A lot of people confuse 7:3's for 10:0's, and 6:4's for 9:1's.
 
Well a matchup has to be extremely bad before it gets to the point where its a 10-0. 9-1 and 8-2's are a lot more common.

Thankfully SG doesn't really have anything that bad. Most are 6-4 at worst.

Though I will say that the Parasoul mirror match is super dumb and not fun to play most of the time.