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What is good damage output?

dekillsage

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Beowulf Cerebella Big Band
I need your input. In 1.0 damage ratio what do you consider good damage for your character? Do you think about resets in terms of getting more damage overall or do you do resets because you get to hit the opponent more and keep momentum?

Give me your teams, videos, combo annotations, thoughts etc.
 
As Val, in one combo? I consider this (with vial goes to 8.6k).
With resets, this is ok, but can be improved.
 
For me, I don't like anything less than a 10K damaging combo with Peacock. Accept no substitutes.
 
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For SG, I tend to want the combos I use to be at minimum 6k. For Bella, I use the typical go to midscreen for 7.6k/8k depending on jump in. I have three combos that I use for Squigly that do 6-7k depending on if I super or not with them. And for Eliza, the main bnb I do does 7.5k universally.
 
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fortune will stay at 7.6k but i mainly go for one with reset value.

filia my combo will go for 6.8 or 7.3 if i decide for gregor > fenrir

squigs will be 7.4

bella is 8k or 7k

fukua is 6.8 or 7.2.

also i find combo routes with assist resets as well
 
What's your definition of "Good"? "Good enough"? "High damage"?

My 'good' aka 'good enough' would be ~5k meterless from c.LK.
That generally means you get ~7k (= half a lifebar) from a raw launch CH into super ender, which is gonna be enough to get a kill on a punish in most cases.
For purposes other than CH Combos to kill, the raw damage rarely/barely matters, as I never run through the full combo anyway.

Things like frontloaded damage vs forced to waste Undizzy to move the lifebar, amount of (scary) reset options over the course of the combo, corner carry, character universality for happy birthday scenarios, possible sideswitches midcombo to turn 'cornered' into 'cornering', etc are all much more important *to me* than whether my combo deals 5.2, 5.7 or 6.3k.
 
Parasoul: 6k~ from standard starter with meter finish and possible oki, 7k~ with assist in same situation, 7.9-8.2k~ with good assist (Pea sHP/Val HBypass/Excellabella)+optimal starter and meter early in the combo, 4k from assist confirms that follow through

Cerebella: 7-8k with meter finish, 9k~ with assists (DP or Lockdown), 9k~ with meter finish on lights with no assist, 5k from assist confirms and follow through

Double: 7k (barely) with meter finish, frontload all the damage with optimal starters since hers aren't super impractical, 6k from standard starter into barrel loops, maybe 7k+ with assists, but I mostly use assists for resets with Double, not combos, 4-5k and advantageous position from assist confirms

Peacock: 7k~ with meter finish, banoodles more if you start looping argus (9k+?), 4-5k and advantageous situation from assist confirms as well as the ability to charge item drops and set bombs to assert momentum and advantage, 6k from easy combos, 5k from no effort at all into argus, assists = crank up that damage, we can hit stuff 13k with the right assists and amounts of meter, but you'll work for it a bit

Squigly: 7k~ with meter early and stancel, 7k~ without charged stancel as well but generally less options and advantage come from this situation, 5k~ from chargeless into charge with 1 meter spent (SBO/Grave) if you don't finish it up (why would you? for the kill, maybe 6k then?)

Eliza (lol beta): 7k almost easily from a variety of starters all which lead into good situations that are easily punishable if you screw up, 8-9.2k with 1 1/2 meters on lights and sometimes Double if you're skilled/lucky (wall bounces man), 9.5k plus for 1 1/2 meters + assist (DP), you can kinda be Filia so thats cool too

Valentine: 5k for oki, 6k for standard, 7k for standard + vial, 7k for optimal, 7k+ for optimal + vial, 8k+ for optimal assist starters (which are usually universal), 7k+ for optimal assist starters with vial load, 7k~ for standard starters with assist used at the end for vial load (ending in corner) and maybe 8k if you're throwing one instead, 4-5k plus advantage from assist confirms

Fukua: 7k and annoyance factor????

Filia: 6k but I never finish a combo :^) why

Big Band: I suck at this character yo, 6-7k, dunno wtf to use assists for, seen some SHIT in the corner with HLnL but I don't do that (the damage)

Ms Fortune: I suck but 7k and I go for the unblockable holla

Painwheel: 7k but I play her Filia style ya dig

I elaborated as much as I wanted to and didn't want to lol, this is what I'm personally expecting/getting when I play the characters, understood? ok

--------------

Bella (Cerecopter)/Eliza (Couch)/Parasoul (Napalm Pillar) is my experimental team for the.. day/week???

Getting 9.6k on Filia with Bella/Pillar midscreen (kanchou starter, horns, otg sweep, dynamo ender, runstop link, pummel horse link, sLP restand) kinda vortexy so landing the hit is the key, if you lose it, you won't die

Averaging 6-7k with Eliza, 1 1/2 meters + pillar on Filia getting 9.2k, not as vortexy as Bella or mix-up strong as Parasoul, but not bad either, sort of in between, landing the hit is VERY key, you'r rewarded well for getting it and keeping it, but you're screwed for losing it unless you make REALLY GOOD risky decisions

Parasoul is landing what I said above (Couch combos get around 7k, Cerecopter works like Excellabella does for the most part, so..) plus she's a mix up machine and she has dirty neutral, landing the hit is easy, keeping it can be the issue (but you're rewarded well for doing so and it's about reading your opponent's mood more than anything) and you can get stuck in a vortex too easy in some matchups that is hard to escape

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I do resets for the damage and the situation I get from it, it depends on.. the situation.

Is my opponent healthy, is it the first touch? I'm likely to go pretty reset crazy. If it works, the damage rolls in and I either break them or make them. Dangerous sometimes. Paying attention when doing this is key so I can counter their counter. Are they going to impatient and reversal friendly or remain calm (at which point I need to do the same) but if I can inspire frenzy, why not?

Is my opponent calm? I want to be trickier. I want to start playing more defensively and look to still poke them into making mistakes but not go for as many risky attempts in trying to open them up or stay in, if someone is good at maintaining their cool, I need to respect that and do the same.

Is my opponent in a frenzy? I want to abuse that. Lay on the mix ups as well as you think you can. Go for low three times in a row to see what they do. Encourage it. Go for unsafe things that still provide them having to 'make a choice.' (Is he going to Kanchou or Battle Butt? This is a crappy left/right scenario with little reward (outside near the corner) for one of the options, but I've hit more people with it than they would like to admit and it wasn't because of GGPO. There's a difference between a stupid opponent, an inexperienced opponent, and an opponent that is -losing it-)

Is my opponent near death? If I can confirm the kill, I'm going to attempt it, if I need to reset, it would be WISE to mind that they may be the most frenzied in this state, regardless of how cool they've been in the match, and going for oki is not a bad idea at all. You can still go for something unsafe that might get you blown up by a reversal if you think they're confused enough, or if you know their reversal options and you can cleverly trick them into trying to do it to no effect. (I have a Parasoul reset that stuffs a ton of Fukua's options, makes it look like she's grounded, but she's in the air.. she does have air drill now though, but it's -very low to the ground- and its a frame trap. I'll see if air drill fucks this or not. But good luck doing BFF, armor grab, etc)

It depends on undizzy, the opponent's options, my options, the risks and rewards of each option, what a girl wants, what a girl needs, whatever makes me happy makes you free, I don't want to have to not think about resetting my opponent

fuck im high brb
 
The EVO champ plans to steal all your tech for himself, solidifying his rule.
Don't fall for his tricks.
If he steal bella stuff, I'm completely ok, then we would be like 5 bellas in this world that do actually cool stuff...
 
For Big Band with one meter? 5k minimum off of pretty much any attack that hits, no excuses otherwise. Preferably 8k or more since hee's got midscreens and corner combos that allow for that easy.
 
6-7k is a okay for regular everyday combos
I always try to reach 8.5-9k off heavy counter hits

When I reset, I try to have at least 8k overall once I'm done

Edit: "regular everyday" meaning off a jump in, low, etc)

Off an assist or throw I settle for 5-6k cause scaling. I rarely ever finish a combo off of these in favor of resets so eh
 
Until they have DIED.

C'mon man the SDE era is over
 
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I tend to think in terms of pre reset damage.

For painwheel i can get about 7.5 k pre reset by using a meter on air super and then comboing out of it.
If i dont use meter, then 5.5k is good for me, pre reset.
For parasoul, i like to get at least 3.5 k for no meter, pre reset. But that can go up to 6k or so pre reset, if i use an early sniper shot super and combo out of it.

For double... I dont really know... I just hit them till they die, and if they cant die, i reset them.

But @dekillsage
If you look at the general bnb chart that is stickied here... Thats a very good representation of about mid level to higher level damage for every character.
 
Link? Also thanks for the reply's so far.
 
A wise sage once told me:

PeAjh2Z.png
 
that doesn't look like my handwriting

You mean like your font

#politicalcorrectness
 
I don't usually care about damage, since I usually kill off any reset. I think that 9k is enough to tod v3 and 11k is enough to tod v2 though? I can do 10k off c.lk I'm pretty sure, so that's good, and getting a hch is enough to kill anything with my 12k combo.
 
If i took half your life with my first 3 hits, then I did something right
 
Good damage to me is just how much damage you can get at the time. If I could get at most 3k off of a throw, then I would call that good damage. As far as resets go, I always ask myself the same thing, "Can I kill from here"? If not, do a reset. If so, spend the bar.

Val 1v1 mid screen combo vs (parasoul, cerebella, Big Band): c.lk > c.mk > c.hp > j.hp > *air dash* *delay* j.mp > j.hp > *land* c.hp > j.hk > *air dash* j.mk > *slight delay* j.hp > *land* j.lp > *slight delay* j.mp > *land* s.lp *3hits* > s.lk > s.mp > s.mp > c.mk > s.hp > savage bypass H > ekg flatliner. does about 6933

Val 1v1 corner combo vs ( parasoul, cerebella, double, Big Band) *also works on parasoul, Big band and double midscreen* : c.lk > c.mk >c.hp > j.hp > *air dash* *delay* j.mk > *delay* j.hp > *land* c.hp > j.hk > * back air dash cancel to double jump forward* j.mp *every hit* > j.hp > *land* j.lp > *slight delay* j.mp > *land* > s.lp *3hits* > s.lk > s.mp > s.mp > c.mk > s.hp > savage bypass H > ekg flatliner. does about 7201

Val 1v1 combo vs (everyone else) : c.lk > c.mk > c.hp > j.hp > *air dash* *delay* j.mp > j.hp > *land* j.hk > *air dash* j.mk > *delay* j.hp > *land* j.lp > j.mp > j.hp > *land* > s.lp *3hits* > s.mp > s.mp > c.mk > s.hp > savage bypass H > ekg flatliner. does about 6500

Val 3v2 corner combo vs (everyone) : c.lk > c.mk > c.hp > j.hp > *air dash* *delay* j.mp > j.hp > *land* c.hp (vs heavies) / s.hk (vs everyone else) / s.hk *delay 2nd hit* *3hits* (if using squigly cremation assist) > *call napalm pillar assist* vial hazard type A > s.lk > s.mp > s.mp > c.mk > poison toss > s.lp *3hits* > c.lk > s.mp > s.mp > c.mk > s.hp > savage bypass H > ekg flatliner. does about 7700

Don't feel like putting notations for my other two characters. Maybe later.
 
throw you controller/arcade stick against the screen...tons of damage right there...or you could smash like an idiot and throw a super~
 
So resets. I'll go for them unless I can kill with raw damage or DHC. What type of reset I go for depends on how I think my opponent will react. When I'm feeling out my opponent, I'll go for a safe burst bait or assisted-reset that puts me in a good neutral position. As the game progresses, I'll go for throw resets if I feel I flustered my opponent and different burst bait/neutral positioning resets if I want to play it safe. Character positioning is also important, I'm more likely to go for a reset with Big Band for example if SSJ will knock the opponent out of the corner.
 
my combo technique includes hitting them until they lose. Dealing a lifebars worth of damage over the course of the match is what I expect of my team in terms of damage. You feel me? (as the emerald's power allows, amen)
 
You won't get all the reset opportunities in the world, so I think it's good to make the most of those in the form of optimal starters
If you have something like this with a lot of different mixup possibilities, you can get some pretty devastating vortexes going
Brass is probably the best assist for this, but any damaging single-hit assist in chain 1 like pillar, lock 'n' load, sekhmet axe, etc, probably serve similarly well.
 
The more I start to believe that a full combo that ends in a hard knock is becoming more valuable.

I usually tell people who are starting in the game to try to get a 5k combo with 1 meter for any character, while it's not even close to optimal, the idea is, whatever the combo path they'll come up with is how they'll get comfortable with the combo system and then move on into higher stuff, since the combo system is still open enough for that.

6-8k, for 1 meter, depending on the character is what I'm expecting in SG nowadays. For some characters or starters a reset is definitely needed for that, but a hard knockdown into a more guarantee setup is definitely worth it.
 
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My Squigly B&B does 7K meterless with a charge (like 6.7 without) and I think that's pretty good for a meterless combo. Adding meter doesn't get her a lot of extra damage, typically, since her supers all scale like crap.
 
i feel like anything above 7K is good damage in this game. thats my target when i hit training mode anyway. 5K starting from a throw is pretty good too.

i think the bar for bella is slightly higher and over 8K is good midscreen.
 
Alright so I got curious about every characters best damage output so I spent hours in training room seeing what the best damage I could get 1v1. All damage is rounded, everything is started from c.lk and uses one bar unless stated otherwise.

Valentine: 7200, (With one purple vial) 7700

Parasoul: 6800, ( Off j.mk > j.hp) 7300

Cerebella: (standard combo) 7200, (kanchou combo) 8800, (kanchou combo two bars) 9800

Filia: 6200, (Off j.hk) 6800, (Off j.hp > j.hk) 7700, (Off j.hk > j.hp > j.hk) 8200

Fortune: 7700, (Off j.hp > axe kick) 8500

Peacock: 8000, (3 argus) 10900

Painwheel: 7600, (corner combo) 8600, (Off j.mk) 9200

Squigly: 7000, (seria combo) 8000

Big Band: 8500, (with taunt) 9600

Fukua: 6700, (shadow combo) 8000, (Off j.hk > j.hp) 8500

Double: 6800, (corner combo) 7000

Let me know if you have a more damaging combo if it's 200+ more than what I found.
 
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Are these numbers for 1 Bar or Meterless?

I just did the first Parasoul combo that came to mind and got ~6.9k Meterless with j.MK j.HP starter (j.HP > j.MK j.HP is a weird one~), so 7.3-7.4k for 1 Bar.
Dunno if that's much better than yours? Same combo deals 6.3k Meterless (so ~6.7k for 1 Bar) off c.LK starter.
 
Painwheel midscreen 1 bar is around 7.5k, but she has a 2 meter option that pumps it up to 8.8k (midscreen universal as well and is my bnb) in the corner with an assist she can get 10-12k iirc depending on team but can definitely get 8.8k or so for 1 meter and no assists for non optimized pretty easy stuff.

This is assuming cr.lk starters. If it isnt a cr.lk starter its a bad metric to base anything off of.

The most important starters are cr.lk, throw, confirmable multihit normals like pw and double j.mp and j.hp, and punish counterhit starters like those that come after blocking supers or after successfully burst baiting someone.
 
Surprised at the Peacock combo damage w/o 3 Argus.
 
Cerebella: (standard combo) 7200, (kanchou combo) 8800, (kanchou combo two bars) 9800



Let me know if you have a more damaging combo if it's 200+ more than what I found.

the midscreen bella BnB i use does 9.1K for 1 meter. works on everyone except BB. has 1 kanchou in it and starts from cr.LK.
 
@IsaVulpes
It's all with one meter unless specified as 2 or more bars. Would you be so kind to do notations for your combo?

@Dime_x
I was specifically testing 1v1, so no assists. I should have tested her two meter ender. I just assumed it wasn't worth mentioning.

@Evilweevle
is there a run stop in that?
 
@IsaVulpes
It's all with one meter unless specified as 2 or more bars. Would you be so kind to do notations for your combo?
- j.MK j.HP (or whatever starter)
c.HP
- j.MP j.HP xx [L.Toss], j.HP
4HK xx L.Egret, Jump
- j.MK j.HP
s.HPx2 xx L.Tearshot
s.LKx2 6MP 6HP xx Pillar (xx Sniper/Bikes)

You hold the AirToss until it's slightly above the ground, so the 2nd j.HP detonates it