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Who beats you? What beats you?

Fortune VS Painwheel is an odd one. Neither one can get close to the other, but once one of them oversteps their boundaries it's over.
 
I get frustrated dealing with Teleporting Peacocks, Filia's IAD pressure and Painwheel's multi-hitting moves. Also, I have a habit of forgetting to switch to standing block from crouching block and I become free to crossups.
 
IsaVulpes said:
Is this satire

Not at all.

I won't refute that she is OP compared to the other characters. I don't know.

But vs PW, at least for me, she is more than doable. A lot less terrible for me to fight than say Parasoul.

@Elda Taluda

Yeah, I'd love to get a few more matches in.
 
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DARKNESSxEAGLE said:
He plays Painwheel, which is probably the closest it comes to a 'bad' matchup for Ms Fortune imo since Painwheel spends most of the time above Fortune, putting her at a disadvantage/not at an advantage and making her main tool for landing a hit HK Fiber Upper, which at full height Painwheel can just armor through with j.HP (and cancel into air super if they so wish). Fortune air super pretty much stops the matchup from giving Fortune an actual disadvantage, so the only real con for her is that it's harder than common matches with other characters.

I suspect a better Fortune player may rebuke what I've said though, or at the very least append it.

You can also super jump air grab, most painwheels are busy doing that stupid "fly in circles" for some reason or just plain flying forward then back (I guess to gauge how you play and what they should do? Is there even strategy behind it? I'm sure there is but I don't use painwheel so I don't understand it). Most seem to go for the hatred guard attack (j.hp) which is just asking for a grab so once you grab them they won't be try the stupid fly anymore. Unless they think they won't get air grabbed again. All the hatred guard moves are also ineffective against omnomnom. When they start shooting nails, that's when you move the head when they start charging or if they aren't then who cares go crazy with the head. That normally shuts down most painwheels for me but maybe I just fight bad painwheels.

Thing is Fortune is never at a disadvantage against any character, her tools are just too good.
 
I think it's to see how the opponent reacts.....in pretty much every match, the first thing is air backdash cancelled into j.lk and repeat to see what the opponent would do
 
ElkyDori said:
Decent Parasouls, especially with a good assist. She is a wall that I can't climb and I almost feel like pushblocking barely moves her at all. Her LP-HP air chain stuffs my armor, teardrops and napalm shot covers the full screen, sniper always threatens flight, lvl 3 is ungodly good, and then there's napalm pillar. But the biggest problem is her corner trap mixup game. As a solo PW, I really start to feel helpless when Updo, Cerecopter, or Double's Assjam is locking me down during the brief opening.

Theory bomb incoming @ElkyDori

I think the three things that really changed how I view Painwheel vs. Parasoul matchup were the realization of how important Napalm Shot is to maintain her up close pressure, how good PB Absolute Guard and PBGC is for her fuzzy mixups while lockdown assists are present, and how straightforward Parasoul is, both in ground movement and jump arcs/hangtime.

First, if you pushblock her napalm shots at the end of blockstrings, it seriously messes with her jump-ins and you can breathe again. She's forced to dash at you to close the pushblock gap, and while she may get some quick strings if the spacing/timing is right, you can usually get a CH armored st.HP if she tried to follow up on the ground. So essentially, block the guard string to the best of your ability > pushblock shot > if jump-in, punish her whiff if possible; if ground dash followup, armor or jump/fly.

Secondly, for the corner pressure, I've seen very few Parasouls that don't use a really good lockdown assist to hold you down so they can present the low/high mixups, which means that if you use the lockdown assist as PB fodder to either try to PBGC deathcrawl your way out or absolute guard the scary low/high|high/low part of the pressure string. Cerecopter is really taken for granted as this amazing great lockdown assist right now, but I'm beginning to think it's more of a liability as it's active for so long it basically gives away a PBGC or PB Absolute Guard which is really self-defeating if you want to make them guess on a high/low mixup.

The third thing is that Parasoul's air moves are great because her air mobility is nonexistant. She's beaten me in air-to-air fights more than any other character, but I think I've dashed under jump-ins to cross-under her more than any other character. I've also probably air-thrown her more than any other character because she's not airdashing or double-jumping, which makes her jump arcs super easy to react to.

For fullscreen tear tosses and napalm shots, there's ways to maneuver such that it's extremely difficult for her to get any chip and you can just hang out indefinitely or try to close the gap. I'm actually going to have to draw a picture for this, so watch for the edit.


Edit:



Painwheel is the cute octopus.
Mary Poppins is the umbrella.
The red line is MP Shot, the Blue LP/HP.
The circles are areas where shots will either turn into static tears if blocked, or where tear tosses will generally fall.

You can fly in the space between the two shots' trajectory no problem. If you're in the trajectory of the MP shot while flying, use (1)j.LK, (2)j.LK, or (3)j.LK as a sort of budget unfly to get out of the way. If at any time you feel like you can't dodge one with maneuvering alone, you can start the j.HP and use its armor but flight cancel it before startup so you can get back to maneuvering. Hopefully to the nearest safe zone.

The goal for me is to get into the middle where there's no coverage, at which point most Parasouls will either call an assist to challenge you in that space, or dash and jump at you with j.LP, j.HP or an air throw. Once you're in the mid and see either of those starting to happen, you want to (1)j.LK to block the assist and put yourself right in front of where she'll land for whiffing those air buttons.
 
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Stuff said:
You can also super jump air grab, most painwheels are busy doing that stupid "fly in circles" for some reason or just plain flying forward then back (I guess to gauge how you play and what they should do? Is there even strategy behind it? I'm sure there is but I don't use painwheel so I don't understand it).

They're waiting for fiber jumps, AA assist calls, or for you to stick out something free that they feel they can j.MP/j.MK. At least I hope that's what they're doing.

Most seem to go for the hatred guard attack (j.hp) which is just asking for a grab so once you grab them they won't be try the stupid fly anymore. Unless they think they won't get air grabbed again. All the hatred guard moves are also ineffective against omnomnom.

Scooping j.HPs is definitely my number one priority when fighting Painwheels that do it compulsively. Probably even more so with Fortune or Double than with my own Painwheel.

Yes and no; omnomnom is awesome against painwheels that use ground armor too much, but keep in mind that Painwheel is one of the best characters for consistently getting a crossup to ensure that a detached head is on the wrong side of Fortune. She's also one of the best for putting a giant disjointed hitbox on the head that you can't punish from direct angles, and then flight canceling out to get her position back.

When they start shooting nails, that's when you move the head when they start charging or if they aren't then who cares go crazy with the head. That normally shuts down most painwheels for me but maybe I just fight bad painwheels.

If they start shooting nails while you're headless and there's not a lockdown assist actively beating the head up, eat them alive for it.
 
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Hmmm, I wonder if Fortune can just dash under a charging Painwheel and use Fiber Upper to get up close for a grab or potentially hit her out of a move or if j.HP's direction just autocorrects on release.
 
I am terrible at defending.
I always forget about mix ups & remembering what type of block to use.
I also need to started push blocking more.
 
@Stuff

We are flying in circles because you have the advantage. Flight is PW's greatest strength and a huge weakness. She can't block in it, so she is a tad more dependent on the enemy to fuck up. We are hoping you do something dumb or underestimate her j.mp. Charged j.hp is pretty solid to absorb damage, but yeah, it is easy to get thrown out of it. A decent PW will usually only use it to suck up a hit and cancel into something a bit better. I'm not saying MF is bad by any means, I'm just saying there are harder MUs for PW.

@DARKNESSxEAGLE

Yeah, I think it would be doable, but I would imagine it is a tad risky. PW wants to be right above Fortune, so you are essentially taking a risk by putting PW right where she wants to be.

@hlvn

I actually find Para's that want to zone easier to deal with. I can usually charge j.hp right through tear spam and get in where I need to be (I especially love charging through sniper shot and getting a full combo on them). It is the Para that knows how strong her air priority is and plays super aggressively that hurts me.
 
What beats me since I got my stick today- not being able to hit corners when doing a QCF motion in a combo. AAARRRGH!
 
Cynical said:
What beats me since I got my stick today- not being able to hit corners when doing a QCF motion in a combo. AAARRRGH!
I have that problem on my joystick.
It wouldn't read QCF anymore.
 
The thing that's beats me most often is I'm far too reckless and don't block often enough. I really should block more...
 
Domo is special said:
GGPO is my biggest rival.

Man...

Is it just me or does the game seem to freeze right before a combo link, fucking everything up... Meanwhile, they pull of a 50 hit combo with nary a slowdown...
 
Vladislav_Paizis said:
If GGPO beats you then I don't know how you would deal with UMvC3's or KOF13's console netcode.
I deal with them by not playing them. If KOF had a not-a-piece-of-shit netcode, I'd be playing that instead of sg
 
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aw, come on. KOF13 steam edition has a decent netcode!
 
What beats me? My tendency to panic super on occasion. It doesn't always happen and I'm usually dandy, but sometimes I pop out a super and facepalm the second I hear the super flash. Grab resets are a very big pain for me as well and takes me forever to properly gauge a break, but I'm going to blame that on not really being knowledgeable of grab reset points of my opponent and that when I do see it and remember it for a few more matches, I forget it soon after. :/
 
I don't understand why you would bother doing panic supers...the recovery on every super is like -900
 
Verstande said:
I don't understand why you would bother doing panic supers...the recovery on every super is like -900

Well, it's a panic super, there's no good reason for it. Especially considering my characters. I AM curbing it and it's much less so now when I posted about it, but it was something that happened more often awhile back and still does on rare occasion.
 
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I guess. The thing is, I would understand why a low level player (myself included) would panic super because it takes like half your health. Supers in this game aren't nearly as strong.
 
I only really know one super effective way to get in as valentine, so I have a habit of only using that to get in. basically, what beats me is playing the same person multiple times.
 
Basically what Beats me are Valentine's, Double's and Cerabella's >.< Also if people are better than me.

Also messing up my Inputs on Specials, Blockbusters and sometimes i end up pressing the wrong button and being punished for it ._.
 
Whenever I get trapped in a corner. It is not easy getting out with peacock and I usually end up pressing the assist button by accident.
 
clumsy33 said:
Whenever I get trapped in a corner. It is not easy getting out with peacock and I usually end up pressing the assist button by accident.

The easiest way is to wait for your opponent to jump, then teleport to the other side while they're in the air.

With that said, you should always be aware of how close you are to the corner and work to maintain your space on the screen. Make your opponent pay for every step he takes forward.
 
I am pretty bad at dealing with well performed resets. Grab resets, overhead resets, cross-up resets, cross-under resets, etc. I am a lot better at dealing with them than I used to be back with Third Strike Online Edition, but I still need to improve, especially since Undizzy is causing players to learn even more resets to cope.
 
Jason said:
The easiest way is to wait for your opponent to jump, then teleport to the other side while they're in the air.

With that said, you should always be aware of how close you are to the corner and work to maintain your space on the screen. Make your opponent pay for every step he takes forward.

Never tought of useing the teleport to escape. I usually try to pushblock them and then use mp. bang, but it sometimes doesn't work and I get punished for it.
 
Online Squigly.
She reminds me of S-Kill from Divekick
 
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There's one guy who always gets me with a Valble team who goes by Randomblackguy16... and pretty much everyone on expert (low-mid tier casual, top-tier beginner)
 
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