Why do people say Skullgirls is easy?

Discussion in 'Beginner Forum' started by Alevzykzl, Dec 3, 2016.

  1. Alevzykzl

    Alevzykzl Member

    Parasoul
    Okay.. So why do people say that the game is easy?
    Even though, I find it very hard?

    First of all, I wanna make clear a few things.
    I had read this thread: http://skullheart.com/index.php?threads/dont-bs-me-how-hard-is-this-game.1404/
    And i just can't believe what I'd just read.

    I want to let you know that I'm a Tekken player, who is REALLY GOOD at execution. I can pull off EWGFs in a real match as consistent as JDCR, no kidding. I could also pull off almost every JF in the game even rare ones like (Heihachi's Heel Axle) but i still find that SG combos execution are so goddamn hard. (extra info: I could lightdash, otgf, resplat combos and Bryan's taunt cancel)

    I also play SF4 and SF3, and YES... SG still harder in execution, like seriously. I just played SF for about 3 days and I'm already beating people up with optimal genei jin damage, even buffing in SF pales in comparison with Tekken and now in SG, I'm just eff.

    I also play Soul Calibur, I can pull off Yoshi's 4AAAAA JF, or 214A 6AB~AB~AB~AB in day 1.

    Basically saying, I'm good at EXECUTION. Although, I'm not a god like Sako or Knee.

    So, I'm gonna revive the old question.
    DON'T BS ME, HOW HARD IS THIS GAME.
    DON'T BS ME, WHY DO PEOPLE SAY SKULLGIRLS IS EASY?

    This is the combo I'm having trouble with right now:
    http://skullheart.com/index.php?threads/parasoul-begginer-combo-so-damn-hard.9291/

    EDIT:
    Opinion's been changed. I just realized most of the people weren't doing EVO shit and I should not try too hard doing optimal combos (but i did :P, I have a full combo for Filia).
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2016
  2. Alevzykzl

    Alevzykzl Member

    Parasoul
    Uhmm.. I don't have a problem with fundamentals.
    I'm beating nightmare difficulty.
    Its just... combos.. really.. those damn combos.
     
  3. zarkingphoton

    zarkingphoton Amateur Proctologist

    PSN:
    zarking_photon
    Peacock
    Big Band
    Double
    Because it is.
     
  4. Alevzykzl

    Alevzykzl Member

    Parasoul
    Reason? Execution is too damn hard.
     
  5. Aden

    Aden Beep Boop Meow

    Steam:
    AdenPhoenix
    PSN:
    AdenPhoenix13
    Painwheel
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    Maybe you should elaborate on what it is in combos that you find difficult, what about execution is so hard in this game.
     
  6. zarkingphoton

    zarkingphoton Amateur Proctologist

    PSN:
    zarking_photon
    Peacock
    Big Band
    Double
    No, it isn't. I looked at that Parasoul combo you linked and there is nothing that hard about it. Just PTKFGS.
     
  7. Fumako

    Fumako Jimbob

    Location:
    The Medici's Cellar
    Steam:
    Fumako
    PSN:
    Fumako
    Big Band
    Peacock
    Err,
    Skullgirls was my very first fighting game ever and simple L-M-H combos are not only very easy to execute but also do decent damage.
    For the longest time I hated fighting games because I couldn't do combos, period. I fell in love with Skullgirls because combos felt so easy.
    Don't know about Tekken, but I think the problem you're having is really just going from one combo system to another? Like how I could never get used to SF's links or Tekken's juggles(?) after learning with chains and what not.
     
  8. mpgame99

    mpgame99 Active Member

    Steam:
    mpgame99
    PSN:
    malikpate
    XBL:
    mpgame99
    Valentine
    Beowulf
    Eliza
    I don't think you should call a game difficult just because you struggled with a combo day 1. SG, Tekken, and SF play VERY differently from each other so you're probably just not used to the game yet but I'll try to help you out as much as possible

    From what I can tell from reading your other thread, you struggled with hitting s.lp after j.lp > j.mk > j.hk and hitting L napalm shot after s.hp. The best advice I can give you for the s.lp after j.hk is to have a very small delay in between the j.lp, j.mk and the j.hk. Once you get the delay down (It won't take very long) you can mash s.lp after j.hk and it will always combo. As for the s.hp into L napalm shot, I'm pretty sure you're only struggling with it because your not holding back the whole string. Parasoul has only one command normal that involves pressing back (B.HK) so for most of her combos you can just hold back the entire string and just tap forward and LP when you want the projectile to come out. If you do these two things the combo will become much easier. If you have any other questions don't be afraid to ask.
     
  9. gllt

    gllt Dedicated

    Steam:
    gllt
    Valentine
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    To be frank, there are difficult things in this game. While the execution of combos at its basis can be easy in terms of simplified motions, chains, and so many links being quite lenient or having buffers, the beauty of SG is finding a combo that -you- can consistently perform. Even after learning to do motions and press buttons with decent timing, it took me months, and even years (hi Painwheel!) to understand and do combos with some characters. I was doing particularly HARD Parasoul combos before I could even cough up a baby Painwheel bnb which took me so many tries that I eventually had to get help from a player who could coach me on why I was messing up so badly. (My timing was godawful.)

    That Para combo IIRC is a tutorial combo? Or from someone in the community?
    It's not my favorite. It's also a full combo it looks like.

    You're not ACTUALLY expected to do these yet, even coming from other games...

    I often disagree with some of the stuff in tutorials and I ALSO often disagree with some of the community bnbs because of my experience with various characters.

    BEGINNERS do LMH Special Super, honestly. Like actual day 1 players. It's great you put in time on that Para combo, and the amount of time in which you actually got it down is very impressive. I'd say you're pushing yourself here..

    Before I continue, let me backtrack a teensy bit and clarify something.

    New to you != mean hard and also != easy!
    I was very proficient in executing long, and sometimes hard combos with MANY characters in SG, and then going to play even a few others left me looking like a day 1 player in every way. Your experience in other fighters will pay off, it already has, but you're always gonna struggle, and moreso with some characters/combos/links.

    So back to combos in SPECIFIC

    =========
    s.lk > s.mk > c.hp
    basic string no big deal, abc
    j.lk > j.mk > j.hp
    awkward string imo but should combo the same on everyone as far as im aware, but not a huge fan of it
    otg s.lk > s.mk > c.hp
    simple pickup with abc string
    j.lp > j.mk > j.hk
    GOD NOOOOOO jHK restands. So straight up I detest these. They're not even universal... this isn't even universal.. I would never ever ever do this combo God whyyy whyyy do we do this to people aaahhhh
    s.lp > s.lp > s.mp > s.hp > s.hp x b[hold],f+p[lp], qcf+kk
    this feels slightly misleading in terms of how it's laid out? also.. LShot into bikes??
    in reality, this is how I'd do this string though I can imgine you've already done it
    (already holding back because these are all standing normals with no back+whatever command normal)
    sLP sLP sMP sHP sHP forward LP qcf KK
    but I'd either do forward MP qcf PP or (mshot into sniper)
    sLP sLP sMP sHP hold down sHP up HK qcf KK (pillar into bikes)
    =========

    Here's the sort of combos I'd much rather give you at your level until you've played for a few weeks or however long it takes you to adjust to SG. It's foreign to you. You may be inputting things TOO FAST. I did, other players did. It's not always about being slow being why your timing is off. And it may, again, simply be unfamiliarity. You may click MUCH more with another character with a different combo.

    sHP can be staggered heavily to allow for charge times. Charge times are short. Turn on stick input display in training mode and watch the trail that follows the cursor that represents your directional inputs. That's charge time. When it disappears, you have charge.

    cLK cMK sHP [2] sHP 8HK QCF KK
    cLK cMK sHP [4] sHP 6MP QCF PP
    cLK cMK cHP jMP jHP jHK (it will otg here on some chars, its ok!) [4] sLK2 sMK2 sHP2 6MP QCF PP
    cLK cMK sHP [4] sHP 6LP [4] sLP sMP 6LK (a tear will burst and an egret RC will happen) dash [4] sLK2 sMK2 sHP2 6MP QCF PP

    First two are LMH Special Super
    Next one is LMH launch MHH restand LMH Special Super
    Last one is LMH Special LM Special dash LMH Special Super

    It's OKAY to do these combos for now. It's FINE. SG is not about being optimal all the time. Seriously.
    SG is a game with a lot more to worry about that doing a full, optimal combo.
    I want you to know I disagree with what you posted as being a beginner bnb and I'm not jabbing at YOU for that. That's my gripe with other people, not you. I feel bad that you got dunked with a non universal full Parasoul combo with awkward timing that I wouldn't wish on anyone.

    Also, the tutorials in this game are great but when they MAKE you do a combo, sometimes they act weird in regards to how successfully you executed it...

    Unless you're dead set on playing Parasoul, consider going into training mode and trying out some characters who have incredibly easy times comboing.

    Fukua cLK sMK sHP jHK cLK sMK cHP QCF HK QCF KK

    Fukua beginner combo theory: anything into sHP (launches) almost anything into jHK (restands) and loop it

    Cerebella cLK cMP cHP delay jLK jHK otg cLK cMP cHP DP LP+LK QCF PP

    Cerebella has some hard stuff, but she has some pretty easy combos a lot of beginner/intermediate players do and get along with fine until they can learn her restands.

    Beowulf (with chair) cLK cMP cHP delay jLK jHK otg cLK cMP cHP QCF PP

    Look familiar...? I'd say Beo combos would take you some time but I wanted to show off that he has a combo very similar to Bella at a low level. I used to teach Beo/Bella players who were new to do basically the same combo with both chars as a start.

    If you want to know what is hard about SG, I promise you, if you stay with this game, execution will not be your gripe most of the time. I think if you have FUN with this game (Which is what matters btw) and stick with it, YOU will be fine. Promise me. And you'll find out that dealing with the setups, assisted approaches, certain matchups, etc will be the things you find difficult, not pulling off your combo. And it won't be because you have no reason to deal with them. Training mode and the community can help you learn how to deal with these things. And we gladly will. Except some of the trolls I guess who have nothing better to do than tell you git gud. :^)

    Git gud in your own time at a sensible pace where you're having fun. If you don't have fun.. go play something else! But I promise you we can get you doing full combos and even optimal ones in a reasonable amount of time if you REALLY want that, but for now, let's just get you on your feet in a way that makes you feel welcome and comfortable playing the game instead of alienated and confused.

    That Para beginner combo is a full combo (That's never a beginner combo)
    It's not universal (jHK restand is NOT UNIVERSAL and its finnicky and hard to learn)
    It's far from optimal in any way
    Who the hell does LShot bikes
    I've seen like one person that ever had this as their bnb and they dropped that shit like a hot rock actually.

    Congrats on pulling it all off in one day though! Also you shouldn't practice THAT long.. it's bad for you...
    Take breaks! Treat it like piano practice...

    I'm here to help and I can provide with you combos for any character, combos of any length, and also varying routes which account for your struggles. (Can't do shot link combos with Para yet? No problem, we can teach you something without one and learn a shot combo when you GET there.)

    I really hope this helps sort out your predicament a teensy bit. Feel free to PM me, highlight me here, whatever.

    EDIT: I'd like to add another note. While it took me 2 years to get to doing a Painwheel bnb, I had friends who played her that thought I was crazy. "She's so easy! She's the easiest character to combo with! You're insane!" They couldn't put together two Parasoul strings if they tried and she has a launcher. Easy is subjective. I don't want you to think PW is hard or unapproachable. She might be just right for you. She might 'fit your hand like a glove' which is so, so important.

    EDIT:

    Visual demonstration of some Parasoul combos. Not asking you to do these, maybe you could try doing half of some of them. Actually, tackle whatever you want, but be patient with yourself. But this should show you how flexible characters in this game are. You can learn a different combo that isn't hard for you!

    EDIT: I now recall my first Para combo that I probably used in matches for 6 months and I won plenty of games. It's honestly GARBAGE but it ended in a burst bait!

    cLK cMK cHP jLK jMK jHP otg sLK sMK cHP jLP jLK jMK jLP

    jMK lets Parasoul 'chain backwards'
    In this combo, when I'm at this string
    jLP jLK jMK jLP
    I'm already in 'stage 5' so that jLP got added to the IPS list since I started that chain with it.
    Then I started a new chain off jMK.. with just jLP. After that I used to crouch to dodge mashing players who bursted it, get hit and end up bursted full screen (lol) or try to go low/high/throw. 3-6 months of that I guesstimate. Was also my best char and my best combo. I wasn't doing nearly anything as hard as you're trying to do yet. Now I'm more than capable of SO many things. (I'm 3 years in now, haha. You can learn all the stuff in that video in less than a month if you were dedicated.)

    EDIT: I always think of one more thing. Last one I promise. :P
    I can do very hard combos in MATCHES with large chunks of the cast now I've improved so much and.. I doubt I could sneeze my way out of a paper bag in SF4 or any Tekken game. I'd be garbage for MONTHS. Execution translates in chunks, not as a whole!
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2016
    Daxam, mcpeanuts and Lex like this.
  10. missingno

    missingno Bird/Normal

    Location:
    PA
    Steam:
    /id/MegaMissingno
    Valentine
    Robo Fortune
    Parasoul
    If you're coming off of Tekken and SF, it sounds like SG chains are just different from what you're used to. It might just take some time to adjust to these kinds of chain mechanics, just because you're good at other games doesn't mean you'll be able to pick just anything up overnight. How long did it take you to get all that stuff down in Tekken in the first place?

    People say SG is easy because it's mostly dial-a-combo with generous links to connect chains together, and simple motions. There are no 1f links, just frame moves, accidental jumps when you wanted 360, double half circles, pretzels, etc. All of those things are genuinely much harder than what SG has, but if you're already used to those and just not used to SG it might seem rough at first. And really, every fighting game is hard. Relatively speaking, SG is easier than other games, but that doesn't mean it doesn't take time and practice to learn this stuff too.
     
    Lex likes this.
  11. Smile

    Smile 미소국 먹으면서 미소지며 행복하세요! Art Moderator

    Location:
    UK, Sutton
    Steam:
    MrSmileAlot
    Peacock
    Squigly
    Big Band
    Beginner friendly =/= Easy

    Game might be easy to learn and get in to. However, game has more then just simply learning how to press buttons.

    Game is easy in the sense that character and combos are easy to understand. But, mastering the game is completely different. Actually learning the game takes times like any other fighting games and there are lot more to look in to other then simply block and attack.


    Honestly tho, your friends are either meming, or they haven't played the game enough.
     
  12. Alevzykzl

    Alevzykzl Member

    Parasoul
    I'm mostly struggling with connecting L Napalm Shot with s.lp, I always drop it at that part if not j.hk.
     
  13. Alevzykzl

    Alevzykzl Member

    Parasoul
    Those are awful lot of info, but I'm grateful for that especially the quoted one.
    Most of the time, I could pick up games really easily, especially Soul Calibur which just took me a few days to be a top player, since people would always say "The game is easy", i thought it was "easy" to top the game, but it was actually just beginner friendly. Like most people can pick it up and go on with their pace, but struggles to advance, because its not EXPERT FRIENDLY, lmao.

    You said I was pushing myself, thanks for that, I need to hold myself back now, because I'd been practicing Severine's combos without any success.
     
  14. Alevzykzl

    Alevzykzl Member

    Parasoul
    One more thing, how do you do j.hp into j.hk? (I thought it was a JF but someone said there's no JF in the game, so.. im confused)
    And... for Filia, I have a combo I cannot get down for my Day 2. (Although, i don't want to pick her up)
    c.lk s.mk s.hp
    j.hp adc j.lk j.hk otg
    c.lk s.mk s.hp
    j.mp j.hp j.mk adc j.hk x adc x j.lk hairball [hk] s.lp s.mp s.mk s.hk x gregor samson

    Mostly, I messes up with her OTG.
    I have never tried switching gregor samson with an assist yet but will it work? like a burst bait.

    EDIT:
    Also, I'm trying to do multiple Filia's restand with j.hk x adc x j.lk x s.lp
    I'm trying to do as sonicfox but I can't get it down with the adc using the directions, i need to keep on doing forward which is a lot of motions especially multiple restands, like I'm expecting three, maybe? I would like to use it as a double snap back.

    The thing is, most of the time i can pull off only one because I'm left either confused or amnesic for the next, since the inputs should be done fast.

    Should I macro lp+hp (adc, no success so far) or should i stick with tapping forward-forward?
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2016
  15. Lex

    Lex Skill pending

    Location:
    Scotland, UK
    Steam:
    Lex
    PSN:
    Ilexyellowdog
    Valentine
    Filia
    Double
    You know what all the button annotation is right? j.HP is Jumping Heavy Punch and j.HK is Jumping Heavy Kick. You can cancel air normals on hit/block in the sequence j.LP, .LK, j.MP, j.MK, j.HP, j.HK (you also obviously can skip buttons so just do j.LP, j.HP for example). There are a few exceptions to this like Cerebella's j.HP which doesn't cancel into j.HK but for most characters this is true.

    If you're missing the otg then you just aren't doing the combo fast enough. You have a bit more time to hit with the cr.LK if you do j.HP as soon as possible but it is reasonably lenient even if there's a delay. Just mess with the timing of cr.LK so that it comes out as soon as you land. Also, the last air chain of that combo doesn't make sense: j.MP, j.HP, j.MK, j.HK, ADC, j.LK, H Hairball, LP...

    j.HP doesn't combo into j.MK. Also, to combo H Hairball into LP you need to dash cancel it which you can't do here because you used your air dash already. This also goes well over the undizzy limit so the opponent can burst out. Try instead replacing this string with j.LP, j.MK, H Hairball, ADC, j.MP, j.HK, LPx2, LK, MP, cr.MK, cr.HP, H Hairball, Fenrir (Fenrir does more damage than gregor).

    Switching gregor with an assist won't result in a possible burst. Your opponent can burst if you start a new string at max undizzy or start a string with a normal that you already used earlier in the combo (after stage 2). Both require you to start a new chain which your assist wouldn't do. You can add an assist at the end of a combo for a bit of extra damage though.

    I believe you are referring to the j.HK, ADC, j.LK, j.MP, j.HK restand? You need to delay the j.MP a little bit. If you are struggling with air dash cancelling then I'm afraid you will have to get used to it. Everyone has a different preference for how they do dashes. I personally use a macro for all dashing but stick dashing does have a buffer (this buffer doesn't affect stuff like cancelling an air normal with dash like here btw).

    You shouldn't be doing that for a double snap though, since it doesn't uncombo it will take ages for the opponent to die, giving them a bunch of meter. Instead use HP, j.HP, ADC, j.HP, HP... (add a LP vs Band and Double). Here's a video of a bunch of double snaps (+ an explanation, if you already understand them then just read the description for a double snap with each character).
    Double snaps (open)
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2016
  16. Alevzykzl

    Alevzykzl Member

    Parasoul
    j.HP adc j.mk x j.hk x H Hairball dash lp.

    EDIT:
    I thought there was something wrong with the notation but I tried it out and it worked.
    after Hairball do a ground dash to s.lp.

    EDIT AGAIN:
    Man, I tried j.MK, H Hairball, ADC, LPx2, LK, MP, cr.MK, cr.HP, H Hairball, Fenrir (Fenrir does more damage than gregor).
    But it doesn't work Filia gets too high and H Hairball adc not ground dash, that means it cancels into j.lp instead of s.lp
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2016
  17. Lex

    Lex Skill pending

    Location:
    Scotland, UK
    Steam:
    Lex
    PSN:
    Ilexyellowdog
    Valentine
    Filia
    Double
    Sorry, forgot to include, H Hairball, ADC, j.MP, j.HK. It's fixed now.
     
  18. Alevzykzl

    Alevzykzl Member

    Parasoul
    I improvised your suggestion and it helped great!
    I did something like this:
    c.lk s.mk s.hp
    j.hp adc j.lk j.hk otg
    c.lk s.mk s.hp
    j.mk H Hairball adc j.mp dash s.lp s.lp s.lk s.mp s.mk s.hk fenrir drive (corner)
    I haven't tried s.hk hairball fenrir drive yet, or maybe completely replacing s.hk with M Hairball.
     
  19. Lex

    Lex Skill pending

    Location:
    Scotland, UK
    Steam:
    Lex
    PSN:
    Ilexyellowdog
    Valentine
    Filia
    Double
    HK, H Hairball only works in the corner (it does do more damage though). Midscreen you want to do cr.HP instead of HK.
     
  20. Rancze

    Rancze Filia's Lover

    Location:
    Philippines
    Steam:
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/rancze/home
    Filia
    Parasoul
    The game is easy compared to other 2d fighting games. But on it's own, there are some difficult things. You probably find it hard because you were a Tekken/SF/Soul Calibur player, and SG has different mechanics. Each game has its own difficulty, and since you are new here (I'm assuming), it is normal that you find it hard. I find it hard to play lots of different characters (started yesterday) and still find it a little hard to execute the moves that I want.
    I was also a Tekken player (Bob main). I'm not a great move king, I randomly pressed buttons until I memorized which button does this and that. Yes, I think SG is harder than Tekken :) This is coming from a guy who had played Tekken for more than 5 years.
    Before Tekken and other fighting games, there was me and Street Fighter. Yes, this is where I began with fighting games. Like Tekken, I started out mashing buttons until I memorized which button does what. I was already in highschool (or before that) before I started checking the command list in fighting games. So yeah, I think each game has its own difficulty.
     
  21. mcpeanuts

    mcpeanuts Anchor Peacock is the future

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Steam:
    may_contain_peanuts
    Double
    Big Band
    Peacock
    Found your problem. Sev's always been an execution monster and always does the most optimal shit in every game regardless of how hard it is. I've actually tried to do some of Severine's combos in training mode just to see if I could, and that shit is impossible.
    For what it's worth there's a buffer for this link in the beta, so once the beta changes go live it'll be easier.
     
  22. Alevzykzl

    Alevzykzl Member

    Parasoul
    I can pretty much pull off this combo very consistently, trying to move on to something harder.
     

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