Juju Officially Removed From Skullgirls
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May
26, 2013.
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Some of you may have read the recent
thread in General Skullgirls Discussion announcing Juju finally
finding her way out of legal hell. This was great news for her fans,
but unfortunately and rather ironically, this thread itself has had
rather dire consequences for the character.
Peter 'Ravidrath'
Bartholow responded to the thread and explained that Ceemcneil,
responsible for the inspiration for Juju, had breached a
confidentiality agreement about that character and she was now
officially being put to rest.
You can read Ravidrath's full
statement along with a brief explanation of Juju's history below.
Hey, everyone.
There was a confidentiality agreement in the contract Mr. McNeil
signed, so I'm extremely disappointed that after working for a few
months to get this resolved, the creation of this thread has ended
any possibility of using Juju in the future.
We tried to get this resolved favorably despite continued disruptive
and unprofessional conduct on Mr. McNeil's part, often against our
own better judgment. His behavior in the Skullgirls community has
made Juju an extremely divisive topic within Lab Zero and I
soldiered ahead because I felt it was the right thing to do. But
with this breach of confidence, none of that matters now.
To say that I am disappointed in this outcome would be an
understatement.
This
decision is final - sorry to all of Juju's fans, but I can't afford
to waste any more of Lab Zero's time and money pursuing this.
![[IMG]](http://skullgirls.com/forums/forums/index.php?attachments/juju-kia-png.669/)
The Life and Times of Number
13
After Parasoul was initially announced, Ceemcneil
suggested on SG's
Facebook that her Sniper should be named Juju, be a chinese assassin
and have a talking sniper rifle. This was the full extent of his
input into the design.
Later Reverge Labs did a Whiteboard
Wednesday where they drew several fan characters, including
Juju. As a nod to the character, a line of dialogue was added so
that during her Silent Scope super Parasoul will sometimes
say "Take the shot, Juju!".
The matter was dropped,
but Alex apparently kept working on Juju in the background and
turned her into a fully fledged character. As a surprise to everyone
she was included as one of the characters
lined up for possible inclusion in the DLC character vote during
the IndieGoGo
campaign.
Ceemcneil then posted on Facebook saying he'd
like to be compensated for the design, though this may have
been in jest. LabZero entered talks with him to get the rights to
the character entirely just before the 1st Mystery Character DLC
vote started. Legally getting the rights to a character is a
decently lengthy process and so she was removed from the first vote.
She was eventually removed from the second vote too.
The
"Take the shot, Juju!" line of disalogue was removed from
the game in the weekly Salty Cupcakes experimental builds of
Skullgirls while Juju remained in legal limbo.
Finally, the
legal issues seemed to have been cleared when Ceemcneil posted the
thread yesterday, but of course that turned out to be the death
knell for the character.
I know this situation is very
disappointing for some, but please try to remain civil in the
comments.
Also, I would remind you that harassing other
members of this forum is not tolerated so please refrain from
Private Messages and profile comments.
Thanks to
Chrono_Tata for digging up the original Facebook message.
Cellsai,
May
26, 2013
#1
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Meridian
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And thus, Juju took her final shot, while we all weeped.
RIP
Juju, AKA #13...
BeatNinja,
May
26, 2013
#2
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Australia.
Surrounded by monstrous fauna
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PSN ID:
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Ausdrake
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Steam ID:
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Ausdrake
Snipers are meant to stay in the shadows, biding their time and not
drawing attention to themselves. Juju was killed in action because
someone couldn't keep their mouth shut.
![[IMG]](http://i.minus.com/iUPNM0Hg9F5n2.gif)
Rest
in peace Soldier.
Ausdrake,
May
26, 2013
#3
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idiyana-le
All the more reason for tomorrow's holiday.
Idiyanale,
May
26, 2013
#4
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View the Phenom
Can Lab Zero still use this character design if they rename it to
something else besides "Juju" and give her a normal sniper
rifle or something? Seems like a waste to lose all that hard work
over this.
view619,
May
26, 2013
#5
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Some_Kinda
Juju was the victim of a projectile reflecting move gone horribly,
horribly wrong. Someone ratted her out, and what should have been
her victory shot backfired and did her in.
SomeKinda,
May
26, 2013
#6
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Australia.
Surrounded by monstrous fauna
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Ausdrake
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Ausdrake
view619 said: ↑
Can Lab Zero
still use this character design if they rename it to something else
besides "Juju" and give her a normal sniper rifle or
something? Seems like a waste to lose all that hard work over this.
I'd rather Alex just create a new
character who draws inspiration from the concept. I really
loved Juju's outfit and silhouette, and there's quite a bit of
creative freedom when dealing with military gear and whatnot. The
gameplay concept sounded immensely fun and I'd like for it to
perhaps make it into the game some day.
Okay honestly, I
really just liked the boots and the kneepads :p
Ausdrake,
May
26, 2013
#7
Klaww
The Dirtiest Grawgin
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Indianapolis,
IN
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KlawwG
Irony. hm.
I don't feel a big loss over this. I don't think is a
very necessary character. So, oh well.
Klaww,
May
26, 2013
#8
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SuspendoVir
Does this count as a Parasoul nerf? <:3
Smarty pants
antics aside, thanks for taking the time to also explain the
complications surrounding this character and just how much
involvement her "creator" had.
A shame that something
Lab Zero embraced in the good spirit of connecting to it's fan base
ended so sourly and likely taught them a life long lesson about
working with fan suggestions.
Balder,
May
26, 2013
#9
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View the Phenom
Ausdrake said: ↑
I'd rather
Alex just create a new character who draws inspiration from
the concept. I really loved Juju's outfit and silhouette, and
there's quite a bit of creative freedom when dealing with military
gear and whatnot. The gameplay concept sounded immensely fun and I'd
like for it to perhaps make it into the game some day.
Okay
honestly, I really just liked the boots and the kneepads :p
It should be fine if they use what they
already have, since the original guy did nothing but suggest the
name, race and talking weapon. Just use the exact same model, only a
different name and a normal sniper rifle. There's nothing the dude
can really do about that, right? Not really fair that Alex does all
of that work then has to scrap it, it would probably be better to
tweak it and move on. How about instead of a talking weapon,
Character x gets a transforming weapon or something?
view619,
May
26, 2013
#10
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Hisuichan
Balder said: ↑
Does this
count as a Parasoul nerf? <:3
Smarty pants antics
aside, thanks for taking the time to also explain the complications
surrounding this character and just how much involvement her
"creator" had.
A shame that something Lab Zero embraced
in the good spirit of connecting to it's fan base ended so sourly
and likely taught them a life long lesson about working with fan
suggestions.
Which is a shame, because really,
it's the fan more than it is the concept of fan suggestions. I can't
even imagine what possessed him to go around loudly taking credit
and calling himself a co-creator even after the contract; I'd have
been overjoyed just to have any contribution I made to
something like that liked. :p I imagine most would be the same. It's
bad fortune Juju had to be involved with one guy who has no concept
of legal consequences.
It's a real shame that Lab Zero had to
go through any of that process over such a tenuous claim - Cee
contributed basically nothing to the character, so it's really Lab
Zero's creation being lost, not his.
SunnyRei,
May
26, 2013
#11
Rufia
Juju shall remain forever in our hearts.
- Location:
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England
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Team:
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![[IMG]](http://i.imgur.com/lsRpZBJ.png)
Rufia,
May
26, 2013
#12
- Team:
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RIP Juju
blackbookalpha,
May
26, 2013
#13
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koyote352
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Bucky Barkley
Good night, sweet princess. You will be missed.
I hope that
we do get a sniper eventually. Lulu, Number 14 (or 31 just 'cause
it'd be funny). It'd be great.
Bucky
Barkley, May
26, 2013
#14
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Redblaze27
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Redblaze27
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Ausdrake said: ↑
The gameplay
concept sounded immensely fun and I'd like for it to perhaps make it
into the game some day.
This, we need a sniper.
Redblaze27,
May
26, 2013
#15
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Australia.
Surrounded by monstrous fauna
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Ausdrake
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Ausdrake
Redblaze27 said: ↑
This, we need
a sniper.
Needs more TvC Saki. Great character.
Ausdrake,
May
26, 2013
#16
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Awesomejhon
that really lame
Killerqueen,
May
26, 2013
#17
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Killeen,
Texas
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Little Goten
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Little_Goten_SRK
I still can't believe that Juju's legend just ended like that.
RIP,
you'll always have the shot in our hearts (figuratively and
literally).
Little_Goten,
May
26, 2013
#18
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Australia.
Surrounded by monstrous fauna
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Ausdrake
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Ausdrake
Little_Goten said: ↑
I still can't
believe that Juju's legend just ended like that.
War is hell, it only takes one bullet.
Ausdrake,
May
26, 2013
#19
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NekoGamerX
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NekoGamerX
never cared for Juju anyways but to the Juju fans I'm sorry that had
to happen.
NekoGamerX,
May
26, 2013
#20
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Canopy
Kingdom
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![[IMG]](http://media.tumblr.com/4dea2c6559f66e5662f729d2cf4f8db1/tumblr_inline_mk0sidGl7X1qz4rgp.jpg)
Juju
??? 2012 - May 2013
Black Egret #13
Sniper
May we remember
sister Juju as "She who was to be playable", for her
contributions in Skullgirls have always been to our hearts.
She may have not
been playable but her mere existence provided us with some of the
most amusing legal battles in the gaming community.
Many people wanted
her, many have interesting ideas about her, and many want to see her
in action.
And just as the hope
of seeing her in the game seems to come into fruition...
Death suddenly
visited her without warning.
Now, she lay
peacefully resting....in the corners of the Recycle Bin folder.
For that let us bow
down our heads and pray that her soul will forever be at peace.
![[IMG]](http://25.media.tumblr.com/f25cccf15da5b63a555496da74849c75/tumblr_mh27plKZbF1rn2m41o1_400.gif)
(Now let us enjoy ourselves with the company of the
other characters.)
Skullheart,
May
26, 2013
#21
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Florida
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Parasoul without having Juju "Take the shot!", is like
Cookies without milk. RIP Juju
DeathArcana,
May
26, 2013
#22
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Prof_Icepick
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Prof Icepick
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professor_icepick
Oh well, ashes to ashes and all that. Seems kind of ironic that Cee
McNeil's announcement that Juju was freed from her legal limbo was
the thing that ended up killing her for good.
Professor
Icepick, May
26, 2013
#23
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Michigan
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Redblaze27
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Redblaze27
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Redblaze27
Professor Icepick said: ↑
Oh well, ashes
to ashes and all that. Seems kind of ironic that Cee McNeil's
announcement that Juju was freed from her legal limbo was the thing
that ended up killing her for good.
Still makes no sense how, this ordeal
was publicly known and very far from a secret.
Redblaze27,
May
26, 2013
#24
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Prof_Icepick
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Prof Icepick
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professor_icepick
Maybe it was because he still referred to himself as "co-creator"
in the OP. That or the legal terms of whatever deal he and Lab Zero
hashed out had some kind of non-disclosure agreement with regards to
the whole "creation process" in general. That's all I can
really think of.
Either way, I'd like to see some of those
gameplay ideas reworked for a totally original character. JooJoo,
mayhaps? ;)
Professor
Icepick, May
26, 2013
#25
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koyote352
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Bucky Barkley
If they do make a new sniper, they should either have a totally
normal sniper and just be totally awesome with it, or the sniper
should be a parasite that turns the hosts arm into the rifle. And
they should make references to their "mentor" or
"predecessor".
Then again, it might be too soon to
speculate. The loss did just happen after all.
Bucky
Barkley, May
26, 2013
#26
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Arkansas
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SCKeon
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sckeon
This news is surprisingly depressing. What a damn shame.
SpaceCadetKeon,
May
26, 2013
#27
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Japan
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Does anyone here not see the problem of fans suggesting character
replacements for a character that was a complete legal nightmare
because she was a fan suggested creation?
Cellsai,
May
26, 2013
#28
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For history's sake, this is the original post where Juju was
"created". Now I'll just go and pretend this whole episode
never happened.
Chrono_Tata,
May
26, 2013
#29
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Manhattan
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Lmao too cute but i can care less.like i said.ill still support da
game in any way i can by buying it over for the PC and all that good
jazz.juju is/was just my concept and if i did anything wrong as far
as spilled not even that much information bout her,thats okay with
me.
Ceemcneil,
May
26, 2013
#30
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Salt
Carolina
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DiddyBound
And they were just about to ceel the deal...
DDB,
May
26, 2013
#31
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koyote352
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Bucky Barkley
Cellsai said: ↑
Does anyone
here not see the problem of fans suggesting character replacements
for a character that was a complete legal nightmare because she was
a fan suggested creation?
When you put it like that, it is a kind
of silly thing to do. lol.
Bucky
Barkley, May
26, 2013
#32
Cellsai said: ↑
Does anyone
here not see the problem of fans suggesting character replacements
for a character that was a complete legal nightmare because she was
a fan suggested creation?
It was only a problem because the
character suggestion was unwittingly acknowledged, and the one who
ended up being involved is a jackass. Lab Zero can just pretend
they've never read this thread and there would be no way to prove
otherwise.
Psycho
Power J, May
26, 2013
#33
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SuspendoVir
SunnyRei said: ↑
Which is a
shame, because really, it's the fan more than it is the concept of
fan suggestions. I can't even imagine what possessed him to go
around loudly taking credit and calling himself a co-creator even
after the contract; I'd have been overjoyed just to have any
contribution I made to something like that liked. :p I imagine most
would be the same. It's bad fortune Juju had to be involved with one
guy who has no concept of legal consequences.
And there lies the ludicrousness of this
affair. All this fuss over one FB post suggesting a
manga/anime/whatever reference. Imagine if they were working with
someone that created a concept from scratch.
And judging from
Ravidrath's post, seems the good folks at Lab Zero had their fair
share of arguments over this matter. You are absolutely right in
saying that " it's the fan more than it is the concept of fan
suggestions" but we can't blame them for being weary from here
on out. Heck! They're probably trembling at the thought of drama
over the fan made background NPCs right now!
Cellsai said: ↑
Does anyone
here not see the problem of fans suggesting character replacements
for a character that was a complete legal nightmare because she was
a fan suggested creation?
.....no?
cerebella's
hair alive
Riiiiiiiight.
Balder,
May
26, 2013
#34
Klaww
The Dirtiest Grawgin
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IN
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KlawwG
I think people are suggesting themselves because they wouldn't want
compensation or whatever, not that L0 is going to change their minds
about anything.
Redblaze27 said: ↑
Still makes no
sense how, this ordeal was publicly known and very far from a
secret.
it doesn't matter how public the ordeal
was, the final deal had the terms of silence, which were broken.
Klaww,
May
26, 2013
#35
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Martholomule
Ceemcneil said: ↑
Lmao too cute
but i can care less.like i said.ill still support da game in any way
i can by buying it over for the PC and all that good jazz.juju
is/was just my concept and if i did anything wrong as far as spilled
not even that much information bout her,thats okay with me.
I'm going to stay civil here, and
just say that the amount of money and time wasted on this whole
affair is anything but "too cute".
What's even less
cute is that it's OK with you.
Martholomule,
May
26, 2013
#36
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Ausdrake
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Ausdrake
Redblaze27 said: ↑
Still makes no
sense how, this ordeal was publicly known and very far from a
secret.
Decent post on the subject here.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=59469245&postcount=11168
Armchair
lawyers, grain of salt and all that.
Ausdrake,
May
26, 2013
#37
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Keith-J-
How much will they have to change #13 anyway? I imagine not that
much, but I would like to see something new for the sniper's design.
Asian Assassin Ladies are kinda played out. She's cool though, so
it's whatever to me.
Keith,
May
26, 2013
#38
Now the question: what are the penalties
for breach of contract? Should Lab Zero go for legal recourse to try
to recover the time and money spent on this?
It'd be
interesting to see if Cee still thinks it's cute when he has to pay
a couple of grand to compensate for the legal fees and time wasted.
Psycho
Power J, May
26, 2013
#39
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koyote352
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Bucky Barkley
Psycho Power J said: ↑
It was only a
problem because the character suggestion was unwittingly
acknowledged, and the one who ended up being involved is a jackass.
Lab Zero can just pretend they've never read this thread and there
would be no way to prove otherwise.
They could definitely do that. But I
like to think that Lab Zero actually likes their fanbase and likes
to do nice things for them instead of just taking our money and
occasionally an idea/suggestion or two. Letting Juju be a
fan-created character was cool, but unfortunately the "creator"
just happened to be someone uncooperative. I admire the fact that
they tried so hard, even though it would have been easier to just
have made a sniper character based on their own ideas. I wouldn't be
surprised if they already had one planned before the
suggestion.
But in any case, this sucks for everyone (though
Cee doesn't seem too bothered by it). I just hope that this doesn't
create something of a barrier between Lab Zero and their fans.
Bucky
Barkley, May
26, 2013
#40
(You
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Juju Officially Removed From Skullgirls
Discussion in 'News
and Info' started by Cellsai,
May
26, 2013.
- Thread Status:
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Psycho Power J said: ↑
Now the
question: what are the penalties for breach of contract? Should Lab
Zero go for legal recourse to try to recover the time and money
spent on this?
It'd be interesting to see if Cee still thinks
it's cute when he has to pay a couple of grand to compensate for the
legal fees and time wasted.
That sounds like overkill.
Just
forgive and forget. Obviously it's a pretty big upset to lose Juju,
but it's not a big enough deal to go this far.
I wonder why
they made it a confidential agreement to begin with. I'm not trying
to say they should not have, obviously it's Cee's silly mistake that
caused this entire mess, but I'm just wondering why they called it
confidential when we all knew of the plans to get Juju signed over
to begin with.
Anyone with legal knowledge have an explanation?
Obviously I know very little on this kind of thing.
Razzle
Dazzle, May
26, 2013
#41
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Prof_Icepick
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Prof Icepick
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professor_icepick
For some reason, I just picture the entire process of forming the
NDA going something like this:
Spoiler
Toggle
Spoiler
![]()
Professor
Icepick, May
26, 2013
#42
- Team:
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Professor Icepick said: ↑
For some reason, I just picture the entire process of forming the
NDA going something like this:
Spoiler
Toggle
Spoiler
![]()
LMAO. Seriously, based on his posts and
behavior, they shouldn't have tried to form any contract with him to
begin with. Easy to say now in hindsight I know...but c'mon, the guy
doesn't even give a crap!
wolfboy,
May
26, 2013
#43
Rufia
Juju shall remain forever in our hearts.
- Location:
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England
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Team:
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Ceemcneil said: ↑
Lmao too cute
but i can care less.like i said.ill still support da game in any way
i can by buying it over for the PC and all that good jazz.juju
is/was just my concept and if i did anything wrong as far as spilled
not even that much information bout her,thats okay with me.
All due respect, I'm not disappointed
for your sake.
Rufia,
May
26, 2013
#44
Sneekee
Peet and Dude
like this.
- Team:
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dkblade77
Razzle Dazzle said: ↑
That sounds
like overkill.
Just forgive and forget. Obviously it's a pretty
big upset to lose Juju, but it's not a big enough deal to go this
far.
I wonder why they made it a confidential agreement to
begin with. I'm not trying to say they should not have, obviously
it's Cee's silly mistake that caused this entire mess, but I'm just
wondering why they called it confidential when we all knew of the
plans to get Juju signed over to begin with.
Anyone with legal
knowledge have an explanation? Obviously I know very little on this
kind of thing.
it's IP material.
My take on it
is that Juju doesn't actually belong to Cee, but the FB post is
enough for Cee to make a claim at ownership of the character and
sue. Even an attempted lawsuit mucks things up for a really long
time and costs the defending party a lot of money--see the Def Jam
Rapstar incident.
If Lab Zero wants to invest time and effort
on Juju, they I assume that they want that IP to be theirs beyond
any possible doubt or claim, so that's why the agreement
exists.
Confidentiality exists probably because of PR, and
because there may be other sensitive terms of the agreement that are
not intended to go public. We know the agreement exists, but not the
terms, and Cee in signing a legal agreement is indicating that they
are an individual that can abide by the terms of that
agreement.
Sure, Lab Zero could just whip up another contract
since this one was broken on a technicality. But if Cee is willing
to break sensitive legal agreements for some flippant thing like
breaking the news early, why even bother trying?
Legal is
serious business. It has and will continue to destroy perfectly good
ideas, good companies, friendships, what-have-you. And I don't think
Juju is going to come back, because Lab Zero doesn't have the
patience to deal with someone who treats a legal agreement like wet
tissue paper.
darkblade77,
May
26, 2013
#45
- Team:
-
,
,
Fucked up thing is that as ar as jujus creation is concerned, I
totally feel where both parties were coming from.
Cee fucked
up on the nda... Seems as if he was to ignorant to understand that
he was in breach just by making that thread... He stated once or
twice in there that he couldn't go into specifics about things cause
he was under contract.. I can only assume that he didn't read the
fine print enough to realize what a breach was or he was just
being... "Himself" and figured that that little breach
would go unnoticed.
But to those that are villifying him for
want of compensation.. I think that is wrong... His idea. he should
have some form of compensation if they were to have ended up using
it.
Not much IMHO.. But something more than a pat on the back
and a "good job"
All i know is that he definitely
dropped the ball and gave labzero all the ammo they needed to
publicly drop juju... Without becoming the villains to juju fans
themselves.
I say well played whether it was planned this
way or not.
Dime_x,
May
26, 2013
#46
![[IMG]](http://i.4pcbr.com/i/34/1skNVU.png)
![[IMG]](http://i.imgur.com/nUDYZ6T.jpg)
![[IMG]](http://i.imgur.com/YviB4Uj.jpg)
KaboomKid,
May
26, 2013
#47
- Team:
-
,
Was never too big a fan of Juju, but it's sad to see an interesting
design go to waste. A normally stationary combatant taking part in
fast paced hand-to-hand combat, along with ricocheting bullets
sounds cool in concept. For her fan's sake, I hope Lab Zero can come
up with some sort of replacement or revision in the future, though
it's perfectly understandable if they want to stay as far away from
this issue for a long time.
On a slightly unrelated note, did
anyone see the concepts that guy on the GAF thread thought up about
a parasitic sniper rifle that possesses people, and uses them so it
can assassinate people? Sounds like a sweet idea for a
suspense/thriller story. Shame that fan suggestions can't/shouldn't
be used, that'd make for a cool villian.
Agent
York, May
26, 2013
#48
Razzle Dazzle said: ↑
That sounds
like overkill.
Just forgive and forget. Obviously it's a pretty
big upset to lose Juju, but it's not a big enough deal to go this
far.
I wonder why they made it a confidential agreement to
begin with. I'm not trying to say they should not have, obviously
it's Cee's silly mistake that caused this entire mess, but I'm just
wondering why they called it confidential when we all knew of the
plans to get Juju signed over to begin with.
Anyone with legal
knowledge have an explanation? Obviously I know very little on this
kind of thing.
Maybe going for a large amount of money
is not really something anyone would want. But since this is still a
breach of a legal contract, it's a good idea for Lab Zero to file it
in a small claims court. At least they'll be able to get some money
for their trouble.
Psycho
Power J, May
26, 2013
#49
- Team:
-
Going to say this here and now: Saxploitation was not inspired by my
idea for a Blaxsploitation BigBand and was instead created entirely
independently without my input. No compensation or acknowledgement
of my part is needed as the idea was developed entirely within
LabZero. Any similarities to concepts submitted by me are purely
coincidental and have no bearing upon the final product.
--
Khalid "Eternal" Nigh
I hope that in the future fan
input doesn't lead to litigious situations. I hate that this even
happened in the first place
Eternal,
May
26, 2013
#50
- Team:
-
,
-
PSN ID:
-
harleycake
Dime_x said: ↑
But to those
that are villifying him for want of compensation.. I think that is
wrong... His idea. he should have some form of compensation if they
were to have ended up using it.
Not much IMHO.. But something
more than a pat on the back and a "good job"
I hardly see how suggesting a race,
a gender and a weapon warrants co-creator status, though. Like if he
had submitted a drawing or a more detailed description regarding her
gameplay then maybe I'd be a little more sympathetic to Cee's side
of things, but that isn't the case.
I don't know any of the
specifics of what he asked for out of this agreement, but if it were
me, I'd take the pat on the back and enjoy something I partially
helped inspire become an actual part of the game. Maybe I'm just
modest, idk.
halcyonharlot,
May
26, 2013
#51
Qetzl
What the f**k am I reading?
- Location:
-
Canada
West Coast
-
Team:
-
,
-
PSN ID:
-
QETZL
-
XBL ID:
-
QETZL
-
Steam ID:
-
QETZL
And everyone learned something about N(on)D(isclosure)A(greement)s
today!
Qetzl,
May
26, 2013
#52
Klaww
The Dirtiest Grawgin
- Location:
-
Indianapolis,
IN
-
Team:
-
,
,
-
PSN ID:
-
KlawwG
halcyonharlot said: ↑
I hardly see
how suggesting a race, a gender and a weapon warrants co-creator
status, though.
Ahad referred to him in the drawing or
something of that nature, sealing him to be legally associated with
it.
Klaww,
May
26, 2013
#53
- Location:
-
Michigan
-
Team:
-
,
-
PSN ID:
-
Redblaze27
-
XBL ID:
-
Redblaze27
-
Steam ID:
-
Redblaze27
In his defense, I recently became a participant for a closed game
beta with a NDA, and they don't mind if you go telling you are
playing the beta for that game.
Obvious contract type differences
aside, it all comes down to if "complete and total silence"
was made clear in his contract or not.
Redblaze27,
May
26, 2013
#54
Qetzl
What the f**k am I reading?
- Location:
-
Canada
West Coast
-
Team:
-
,
-
PSN ID:
-
QETZL
-
XBL ID:
-
QETZL
-
Steam ID:
-
QETZL
The NDA will come with its own terms. The only things universal
about them is "The punishment is immediate termination of the
contract" and "it means not talking about X"
Qetzl,
May
26, 2013
#55
- Team:
-
,
,
halcyonharlot said: ↑
I hardly see
how suggesting a race, a gender and a weapon warrants co-creator
status, though. Like if he had submitted a drawing or a more
detailed description regarding her gameplay then maybe I'd be a
little more sympathetic to Cee's side of things, but that isn't the
case.
I don't know any of the specifics of what he asked for
out of this agreement, but if it were me, I'd take the pat on the
back and enjoy something I partially helped inspire become an actual
part of the game. Maybe I'm just modest, idk.
In other words, people shouldn't be
paid for intellectual property...I'm not even going to bother
arguing with you.
Dime_x,
May
26, 2013
#56
- Team:
-
,
-
PSN ID:
-
harleycake
Redblaze27 said: ↑
In his
defense, I recent became a participant for a closed game beta with a
NDA, and they don't mind if you go telling you are playing the beta
for that game.
Obvious contract type differences aside, it all
comes down to if "complete and total silence" was made
clear in his contract or not.
It probably was. I can't see why Lab
Zero would go through all the trouble of a legally binding agreement
just to throw all that time and money away for no reason. Cee
probably just done goofed and misread something.
halcyonharlot,
May
26, 2013
#57
- Team:
-
,
-
PSN ID:
-
harleycake
Dime_x said: ↑
In other
words, people shouldn't be paid for intellectual property...I'm not
even going to bother arguing with you.
If by "in other words" you
mean "words that I didn't actually say at all" then sure!
halcyonharlot,
May
26, 2013
#58
- Team:
-
-
PSN ID:
-
dkblade77
Redblaze27 said: ↑
In his
defense, I recent became a participant for a closed game beta with a
NDA, and they don't mind if you go telling you are playing the beta
for that game.
Obvious contract type differences aside, it all
comes down to if "complete and total silence" was made
clear in his contract or not.
That's no defense. The situations are
barely alike(this is clearly a private 1-on-1 agreement), and in all
likelihood in your example the company could easily fly down
your throat and make your life hell if you breach NDA, they know of
it, and they think there is value in exercising their right to make
you pay for that breach.
In a large enough closed beta, the
last two conditions may not occur all that often. In a private
agreement, #2 is very likely and #3 is almost definite. Bottom line,
don't play with #1.
darkblade77,
May
26, 2013
#59
- Team:
-
,
,
Dime_x said: ↑
In other
words, people shouldn't be paid for intellectual property...I'm not
even going to bother arguing with you.
Yeah, it would be way better if the
Angel+ Tier donators all got paid for submitting their intellectual
property - the OC background characters. These people actually gave
away money instead! They must be dumb
IsaVulpes,
May
26, 2013
#60
- Team:
-
-
PSN ID:
-
Some_Kinda
Redblaze27 said: ↑
In his
defense, I recent became a participant for a closed game beta with a
NDA, and they don't mind if you go telling you are playing the beta
for that game.
Obvious contract type differences aside, it all
comes down to if "complete and total silence" was made
clear in his contract or not.
I don't think they would have rendered
months of legal work null and void based on something that wasn't
made clear. If you sign a contract, it's your responsibility to know
what's in it.
SomeKinda,
May
26, 2013
#61
- Team:
-
-
PSN ID:
-
dukemagus
Say... is it too wrong if i get mad at cee now?
i mean...
depending on how you see it, he gave a small idea and Alex did all
the REAL hard stuff to make it work and the guy joked about taking
cash from a project made basically out of love and hard effort (and
a team having a tough time finnancially back in the day and not 100%
comfortable even now). EVEN WITH SUCH A STUPID MOVE, lab zero tried
to settle it, spent money doing it AAND the kid blew it.
y'know,
i don't tkink his efforts aren't worth the costs, but his mistakes
are well worth some disappointment and anger from me.
i mean,
even i can give some ideas for the sniper: Let's say our
hypothetical sniper, is called LorrAIMe, and her "rifle"
is actually a living weapon called tredecim, which hosts lorraime's
husband soul (which was the previous top sniper from black egrets).
The rifle, however has to draw energy to create the shot directly
from the sniper, and is killing her little by little, but no one
else can bond with the rifle as well as the sniper.
See?
small custom background made. i could add a few more words about
appearance, and that's NOT WORTH A COIN! all a man could ever ask LZ
for such a small contribuition would be a "thanks for #13 duke"
in a small line in the credits.
DAMN! there's a lot of wrong
things in this whole situation
*NOTE: yeah, i wanted to
play withe the "new #13" idea, now's a good time as any
dukemagus,
May
26, 2013
#62
TJF588,
Telvanni
and Buri
like this.
- Location:
-
Australia
-
Team:
-
-
Steam ID:
-
Azzamacazza
Future advice for Lab Zero: take suggestions from people with better
grammar!
Azzamacazza,
May
26, 2013
#63
- Location:
-
Sin
City, NV
-
Team:
-
,
-
PSN ID:
-
KingdomKeyGX
-
Steam ID:
-
ArchDukeMinaria
And that's why if you want your fan character to appear in a
game...
You do it your ****ing self (Aka make your own game)
: )
RIP Juju, you'll be forever missed. She is in a better
place now.
Cee is no longer in the pages of SG history, it
was better if he was completely erased from it forever.
BrandX,
May
26, 2013
#64
- Location:
-
England
-
Team:
-
,
,
Well, this sucks.
Eternal
Darkness, May
26, 2013
#65
- Team:
-
-
PSN ID:
-
dkblade77
dukemagus said: ↑
Say... is it
too wrong if i get mad at cee now?
You can be as mad as you want here, as
long as you keep your expressions of that anger civil.
I'm
pretty disappointed, but I'm also happy that Lab Zero has nothing
else to do with Cee now.
darkblade77,
May
26, 2013
#66
- Team:
-
,
-
XBL ID:
-
koyote352
-
Steam ID:
-
Bucky Barkley
darkblade77 said: ↑
I'm pretty
disappointed, but I'm also happy that Lab Zero has nothing else to
do with Cee now.
Nothing to Cee here.
Bucky
Barkley, May
26, 2013
#67
- Team:
-
,
,
I'm just glad this is finally over.
Nice job Cee.
Sanger
Zonvolt, May
26, 2013
#68
- Team:
-
,
,
IsaVulpes said: ↑
Yeah, it would
be way better if the Angel+ Tier donators all got paid for
submitting their intellectual property - the OC background
characters. These people actually gave away money instead! They must
be dumb
... Strawman.
They were paid
as per contract. The payout was the npc's and was discussed before
anyone mad any donations. also they are all being made to sign
contracts giving labzero rights there npc's ... So your point is
quite moot... Cause they are getting compensated as per contract and
they are all signing waiver rights to there npc's
Dime_x,
May
26, 2013
#69
- Team:
-
-
PSN ID:
-
Some_Kinda
Everyone who got their background characters in skullgirls is still
keeping their character rights though, right? Juju was supposed to
be signed over to Lab Zero fully and now that can't happen.
SomeKinda,
May
26, 2013
#70
- Team:
-
,
I've come to the startling realization that Juju's infrequency
during Parasoul's super was a result of her preference for feet as
targets.
less,
May
26, 2013
#71
Zidiane
Bitten by a radioactive Solobella
- Location:
-
Providence,
RI
-
Team:
-
-
PSN ID:
-
zidiane5
I punched a wall.
Zidiane,
May
26, 2013
#72
- Location:
-
LI,
NY
-
Team:
-
,
-
PSN ID:
-
samurai_bebop
Haha this is so sad that I need to laugh to prevent myself from
getting sad.
commanderpepper,
May
26, 2013
#73
- Team:
-
,
,
Dime_x said: ↑
...
Strawman.
They were paid as per contract. The payout was the
npc's and was discussed before anyone mad any donations. also they
are all being made to sign contracts giving labzero rights there
npc's ... So your point is quite moot... Cause they are getting
compensated as per contract and they are all signing waiver rights
to there npc's
Cee would get paid with the possibility
of an entire character, at minimum a reference and appearances in
Parasoul's story mode. Also they had him sign a contract giving
Labzero right to his OC.. so my point is not moot.. ?
I don't
really see how you can be so blind?
OC Character:
Send
a picture of your complete, thought-out character design to LabZero
+ Pay 1000$ = Get a background NPC in a single stage (and possibly
only sometimes, as they're looking into having different chars on it
each time you select the stage)
Juju:
Write a one
line char description on Facebook + Get lucky = Get a possibly
playable character, but at least a voiceline reference + story mode
appearances + a place on future artwork
.. Yeah, Cee is
totally in a place to ask for more!
IsaVulpes,
May
26, 2013
#74
- Location:
-
Argentina
-
Team:
-
Not taking sides here, but it seems unfair for a group of grown up
people to harass/pick on a fellow forum user and game supporter
because of his choices, as silly as they may seem. Just keep it calm
people, I don't want to call the admin over this.
I've been a
big fan of Juju since day one, I hyped for her countless times, I
took a dislike of MikeZ over his constant teasing (this is actually
a huge understatement), I suggested delaying the second poll for her
and I almost cried when I read that thread this morning. To tell the
truth, I have no ill feelings towards Cee or LabZero, and sincerely
I just don't see the point.
I only hope LabZero doesn't discard
the playstyle and we get to see our Black Egret sniper in some way
or the other.
NegativeRainbow,
May
26, 2013
#75
- Team:
-
,
"Hey LZG, you should make a character, either male or female,
whom may be of a ethnicity that relates to one here on earth, with a
parasite, living weapon, or regular weapon that may give him or her
powers humans normally would not have! Also, consider making his or
her body size larger or smaller than expected, with a few extra or
missing features that will distinguish him or her from regular
humans."
There. Now LZG must have my permission to do
any character creation remotely related to the above
comment.
-----------------------------------------------------------
In
all seriousness, and IANAL, but I highly doubt LZG would have ran
into legal trouble if they merely added Juju in, ignoring the
original facebook comment. Sure, they acknowledged at some point
that the original comment prompted the character. However, IP law is
not nearly that strict given the ridiculously simple and broad
suggestion that was originally made, otherwise all works of art and
IP that was even remotely based off of a suggestion or prompt
anywhere would face insurmountable legal challenges. I firmly
believe LZG made it far more complicated than they had to.
If
a comment was "I think a character should have a sniper rifle",
and LZG acknowledged the comment, would they have to get permission
to make a character with a sniper rifle? Ludicrous. The original
comment was hardly more complex than that, with a simple ethnicity
suggestion.
I am saddened by this piece of news as Juju was a
character I was eagerly looking forward too. The fact they are going
to remove "Juju" (of any incarnation) from the game
completely is simply, IMO, a overreaction.
They need a better
legal advice.
thecrecarc,
May
26, 2013
#76
Zidiane
Bitten by a radioactive Solobella
- Location:
-
Providence,
RI
-
Team:
-
-
PSN ID:
-
zidiane5
You Cee, this is why we can't have nice things.
Zidiane,
May
26, 2013
#77
- Location:
-
Michigan
-
Team:
-
,
-
PSN ID:
-
Redblaze27
-
XBL ID:
-
Redblaze27
-
Steam ID:
-
Redblaze27
SomeKinda said: ↑
Everyone who
got their background characters in skullgirls is still keeping their
character rights though, right? Juju was supposed to be signed over
to Lab Zero fully and now that can't happen.
From what i've gathered that's supposed
to be the case. The whole Juju thing was just meant as a legal waver
because she was based on a fan concept expanding upon a otherwise
nameless & facelss sniper.
Also for the record Lab Zero, while on this sorta subject matter:
Any sort of suggestions or idea's I have already given or will
give in the future in regards to Skullgirls or any other future Lab
Zero Games Intellectual Property are given with the intent of Lab
Zero Games able to retain full and complete control without any type
compensation or recognition. My personal consent is fully
given at the time I mention it. ~ Redblaze27
I know you guys
said no more fan characters, but I give that declaration with
alternate colors, character attack/skill/balancing concepts or
possible future game modes specifically in mind.
Redblaze27,
May
26, 2013
#78
- Location:
-
Irving,
Texas
-
Team:
-
,
,
-
PSN ID:
-
LordHiroRose
-
Steam ID:
-
hirorose
She would have been an awesome character for the Skullgirls
community. I am deeply saddened by the fact she is gone. It really
breaks my heart. I hope she rests in peace.
The person
who gave the concept for her must have been on Cloud 9. I would have
died if I knew the SG team used a quirky idea I had to create a
character. That be the bee’s knees, I tell you what. If I ever
get to create a character for SG all I would want is my name in the
credits or something. I’d give the rights to any character I
make to SG for free.
WritingGlasses,
May
26, 2013
#79
- Location:
-
East
Tennessee
-
Team:
-
,
-
PSN ID:
-
Gohoromoro
I just... wow. Make it to the end of the marathon just to
slip on a banana peel.
Radnar,
May
26, 2013
#80
(You
must log in or sign up to reply here.)
Page 2 of 5
Juju Officially Removed From Skullgirls
Discussion in 'News
and Info' started by Cellsai,
May
26, 2013.
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R.
D. Covenant He Who Was Once Dravidian, But Is Still Cat
"Take the shot" should be
renamed "lost soldier"
That or just have a new
character that may or may not resemble or be related to said lost
soldier (whomever it may be) take the shot instead
R.
D. Covenant, May
26, 2013
#81
Hawk
New Member
NegativeRainbow said: ↑
I only hope
LabZero doesn't discard the playstyle and we get to see our Black
Egret sniper in some way or the other.
Sorry, but I have to disagree on
that...If they are going to get rid of the character, then they have
to get rid of the "play-style" and "redesign look of
Juju and name" all for good. If they do decide to keep the play
style and etc, it's just going to add more insult into injury.
Hawk,
May
26, 2013
#82
-
- Team:
-
,
,
thecrecarc said: ↑
In all
seriousness, and IANAL
You may want to rethink that acronym.
Master_Mind,
May
26, 2013
#83
Eternal
New Member Forever
- Team:
-
This suggestion may seem a little "out there" but I think
it'd be cool if LZ made a character with limbs. They could use them
to fight or something and it'd be awesome.
Eternal,
May
26, 2013
#84
-
- Team:
-
,
While I understand your point
Master_Mind said: ↑
You may want
to rethink that acronym.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IANAL
thecrecarc,
May
26, 2013
#85
R.
D. Covenant He Who Was Once Dravidian, But Is Still Cat
Hawk said: ↑
Sorry, but I
have to disagree on that...If they are going to get rid of the
character, then they have to get rid of the "play-style"
and "redesign look of Juju and name" all for good. If they
do decide to keep the play style and etc, it's just going to add
more insult into injury.
There are many characters across
different IP's that have similar moves. I dont think keeping her
move set intact will be problematic.
R.
D. Covenant, May
26, 2013
#86
-
- Location:
-
Irving,
Texas
-
Team:
-
,
,
-
PSN ID:
-
LordHiroRose
-
Steam ID:
-
hirorose
I say they create a zombie sniper or something to represent a fallen
solider who has returned from the grave to finish her unknown
mission.
WritingGlasses,
May
26, 2013
#87
Eternal
New Member Forever
- Team:
-
R. D. Covenant said: ↑
There are many
characters across different IP's that have similar moves. I dont
think keeping her move set intact will be problematic.
Looking at your avatar sparks the
question: Does LZ have to contact everyone who was in the stream
chat when we as a community decided to "co-create"
Robo-Fortune with Kimlihn?
Eternal,
May
26, 2013
#88
Rellek
The One Who Sees With No Eyes
- Team:
-
Eternal said: ↑
Looking at
your avatar sparks the question: Does LZ have to contact everyone
who was in the stream chat when we as a community decided to
"co-create" Robo-Fortune with Kimlihn?
If there's no record of the stream chat
happening, I can imagine that it's entirely pointless.
Rellek,
May
26, 2013
#89
-
- Location:
-
Irving,
Texas
-
Team:
-
,
,
-
PSN ID:
-
LordHiroRose
-
Steam ID:
-
hirorose
This, people, is why you don't have hopes and dreams.
I suppose it is better that we learn
this lesson now before it is too late. I'm kind of glad this
happened with a character that is not playable in the game just yet.
God forbid something like this happens to the gals and guys we
already have.
WritingGlasses,
May
26, 2013
#90
R.
D. Covenant He Who Was Once Dravidian, But Is Still Cat
Eternal said: ↑
Looking at
your avatar sparks the question: Does LZ have to contact everyone
who was in the stream chat when we as a community decided to
"co-create" Robo-Fortune with Kimlihn?
If anyone tries to claim Robo-Fortune I
will personally find and @#$ ^%$# them. LZ is going through too much
bs
R.
D. Covenant, May
26, 2013
#91
Eternal
New Member Forever
- Team:
-
R. D. Covenant said: ↑
If anyone
tries to claim Robo-Fortune I will personally find and @#$ ^%$#
them. LZ is going through too much bs
I'd hate to be At Pound Sign Dollar Sign
space Caret Percentage Dollar Sign Pound Signed. It sounds
painful... and hard to write.
Eternal,
May
26, 2013
#92
-
- Location:
-
Irving,
Texas
-
Team:
-
,
,
-
PSN ID:
-
LordHiroRose
-
Steam ID:
-
hirorose
R. D. Covenant said: ↑
If anyone
tries to claim Robo-Fortune I will personally find and @#$ ^%$#
them. LZ is going through too much bs
Are you kidding me? Don't tell me
Robo-Fortune is in the same boat as #13. I'm dying over here to get
my hands on Robo-Fortune, damn it! They better not let her die off
like #13!
WritingGlasses,
May
26, 2013
#93
-
- Team:
-
Laying things out there:
Cee has
repeatedly been rude to other members of the Skullgirls community
and importantly to Mike Z himself.
In a
company as small as Lab Zero, all devs likely have influence on the
administrative decisions.
Cee was
shown to be unreliable, from the contract breach.
From what I
can guess:
Mike Z
does not want to collaborate with anyone who is rude (and I don't
blame him).
Alex's
insistence kept JuJu in the running.
Cee
breaking contract gave Mike Z the high ground.
Think of it this way: A guy yells "pig"
to a cop then gets taken to prison for jaywalking. Unrelated events?
Regularjoe,
May
26, 2013
#94
-
- Location:
-
Michigan
-
Team:
-
,
-
PSN ID:
-
Redblaze27
-
XBL ID:
-
Redblaze27
-
Steam ID:
-
Redblaze27
Robo-Fortune is so internet meme at this point, she's basically
public domain aside from the whole "based on a pre-existing
Skullgirls character" part.
Redblaze27,
May
26, 2013
#95
-
- Team:
-
-
XBL ID:
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koyote352
-
Steam ID:
-
Bucky Barkley
WritingGlasses said: ↑
Are you
kidding me? Don't tell me Robo-Fortune is in the same boat as #13.
I'm dying over here to get my hands on Robo-Fortune, damn it! They
better not let her die off like #13!
I doubt it. Robo-Fortune is based on Ms.
Fortune who LZ already owns. It's kinda like if I made a robotic
version of Mario and called it Robo-Mario and then expected Nintendo
to ask my permission if they ever wanted to make a robotic version
of Mario. That wouldn't work.
Bucky
Barkley, May
26, 2013
#96
-
- Location:
-
Irving,
Texas
-
Team:
-
,
,
-
PSN ID:
-
LordHiroRose
-
Steam ID:
-
hirorose
Bucky Barkley said: ↑
I doubt it.
Robo-Fortune is based on Ms. Fortune who LZ already owns. It's kinda
like if I made a robotic version of Mario and called it Robo-Mario.
Then expected Nintendo to ask my permission if they ever wanted to
make a robotic version of Mario.
That is good to know. I'm just on
edge with the whole #13 death thing.
WritingGlasses,
May
26, 2013
#97
-
- Location:
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Irving,
Texas
-
Team:
-
,
,
-
PSN ID:
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LordHiroRose
-
Steam ID:
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hirorose
Regularjoe said: ↑
Laying things out there:
Cee has repeatedly been rude to other members of the Skullgirls
community and importantly to Mike Z himself.
In a company as small as Lab Zero, all devs likely have influence
on the administrative decisions.
Cee was shown to be unreliable, from the contract breach.
From what I
can guess:
Mike Z does not want to collaborate with anyone who is rude (and I
don't blame him).
Alex's insistence kept JuJu in the running.
Cee breaking contract gave Mike Z the high ground.
Think of it
this way: A guy yells "pig" to a cop then gets taken to
prison for jaywalking. Unrelated events?
Regularjoe said: ↑
Laying things out there:
Cee has repeatedly been rude to other members of the Skullgirls
community and importantly to Mike Z himself.
In a company as small as Lab Zero, all devs likely have influence
on the administrative decisions.
Cee was shown to be unreliable, from the contract breach.
From what I
can guess:
Mike Z does not want to collaborate with anyone who is rude (and I
don't blame him).
Alex's insistence kept JuJu in the running.
Cee breaking contract gave Mike Z the high ground.
Think of it
this way: A guy yells "pig" to a cop then gets taken to
prison for jaywalking. Unrelated events?
I guess it is for the better in the end.
I mean if what you are saying is true then there is no reason for
Lab Zero to deal with it.
WritingGlasses,
May
26, 2013
#98
-
- Team:
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,
,
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PSN ID:
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southstairs
R. D. Covenant said: ↑
If anyone
tries to claim Robo-Fortune I will personally find and @#$ ^%$#
them. LZ is going through too much bs
WritingGlasses said: ↑
Are you
kidding me? Don't tell me Robo-Fortune is in the same boat as #13.
I'm dying over here to get my hands on Robo-Fortune, damn it! They
better not let her die off like #13!
Robo-Fortune was thought up by Fortune's
voice actor, Kimlinh Tran. I'm sure she doesn't want a contract for
it, and even if she did, she's much more competent than Cee.
Psychotic
Beverage, May
26, 2013
#99
-
- Location:
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Arkansas
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Team:
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,
,
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PSN ID:
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SCKeon
-
Steam ID:
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sckeon
This situation reminds me of the King of the Hill episode: Order of
the Straight Arrow.
"24 hours silence starting
now."
"Right now?"
"Bobby, son,
you just talked. Now I'll let that pass, but don't talk
again."
"Thanks dad."
*sigh* "Son,
gimme that Slim Jim."
SpaceCadetKeon,
May
26, 2013
#100
-
- Location:
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Irving,
Texas
-
Team:
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,
,
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PSN ID:
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LordHiroRose
-
Steam ID:
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hirorose
SpaceCadetKeon said: ↑
This situation
reminds me of the King of the Hill episode: Order of the Straight
Arrow.
"24 hours silence starting now."
"Right
now?"
"Bobby, son, you just talked. Now I'll let
that pass, but don't talk again."
"Thanks
dad."
*sigh* "Son, gimme that Slim Jim."
I love that episode. I'm in the mood
for King of the Hill now. I wonder what it would be like to see Hank
Hill in a fighting game. Or Bobby Hill!
"That my purse!
I don't know you!" *epic kick to the crotch*
WritingGlasses,
May
26, 2013
#101
-
- Location:
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Michigan
-
Team:
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,
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PSN ID:
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Redblaze27
-
XBL ID:
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Redblaze27
-
Steam ID:
-
Redblaze27
Psychotic Beverage said: ↑
Robo-Fortune
was thought up by Fortune's voice actor, Kimlinh Tran. I'm sure she
doesn't want a contract for it, and even if she did, she's much more
competent than Cee.
Odds are any sort of legality issues
with that are more easily handled with her being on the payroll and
already having agreed previously on the voice pack.
Redblaze27,
May
26, 2013
#102
Moderator
- Location:
-
Hackensack,
NJ
-
Team:
-
-
PSN ID:
-
m_chibi
-
Steam ID:
-
m_chibi
Did we ban Cee yet?
Can we?
Pleaseeeeeeee?
Master
Chibi, May
26, 2013
#103
-
- Location:
-
Michigan
-
Team:
-
,
-
PSN ID:
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Redblaze27
-
XBL ID:
-
Redblaze27
-
Steam ID:
-
Redblaze27
Master Chibi said: ↑
Did we ban Cee
yet?
Did he really do anything to be banned
at Skullheart?
I mean, I know Lab Zero probably isnt on good
terms with him but he hasn't done anything forum banning worthy from
what I saw.
Redblaze27,
May
26, 2013
#104
-
- Team:
-
,
,
... The lessons and facts about History of Juju in gaming world and
legal world is timeless.
Please sticky this so that other can
learn from this.
Ironboy89,
May
26, 2013
#105
-
I feel sorry for LZ time & money
being wasted.....but
This is just too funny; Cee's
involvement, mind you. I mean just the sheer amount of irony on
Cee's part is just too fucking much for me to handle.
Silverharp,
May
26, 2013
#106
-
- Team:
-
-
XBL ID:
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SteelCoil
-
Steam ID:
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SteelcOil_Inc
You could just put Cee on ignore.
SteelcOil_Inc,
May
26, 2013
#107
Moderator
- Location:
-
Hackensack,
NJ
-
Team:
-
-
PSN ID:
-
m_chibi
-
Steam ID:
-
m_chibi
Redblaze27 said: ↑
Did he really
do anything to be banned at Skullheart?
I mean, I know Lab Zero
probably isnt on good terms with him but he hasn't done anything
forum banning worthy from what I saw.
Oh I know, I wasn't going to ban him
or anything of the sort
Maybe some alternate universe is
lucky enough to have had that happened though..
D:
Master
Chibi, May
26, 2013
#108
-
- Location:
-
Michigan
-
Team:
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,
-
PSN ID:
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Redblaze27
-
XBL ID:
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Redblaze27
-
Steam ID:
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Redblaze27
Ironboy89 said: ↑
... The
lessons and facts about History of Juju in gaming world and legal
world is timeless.
Nothing really has been learned, only
enforced.
If you want to do anything of possibly legal-iffy
levels with fan idea's, have disclaimers signed first before they
submit them.
Look at the Project Megaman Legends 3 Work Bench as
a prime example of that, aside from the Capcom decided to hate
Megaman and give-up part.
Redblaze27,
May
26, 2013
#109
Verdant
Brave Likes fighting games but is generally bad at them
- Team:
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,
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PSN ID:
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VerdantBrave
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Steam ID:
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Verdant Brave
Silverharp said: ↑
I feel sorry
for LZ time & money being wasted.....but
This is just
too funny; Cee's involvement, mind you. I mean just the sheer amount
of irony on Cee's part is just too fucking much for me to handle.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who finds
this hilarious.
Sorry about all the time and money wasted,
Lab Zero, but this is sitcom levels of shit right here.
Verdant
Brave, May
26, 2013
#110
-
- Location:
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Virginia
-
Team:
-
-
XBL ID:
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Te1vanni Guard
Regularjoe said: ↑
Think of it
this way: A guy yells "pig" to a cop then gets taken to
prison for jaywalking. Unrelated events?
In this case, I'd say they're pretty
unrelated. Contracts are pretty set in stone. If either party had of
spoken out, the contract would have been voided. Cee doing it
himself kinda kills the analogy.
To be honest, I'm glad
the entire thing is over even if it does make people
upset.
Everything that's been going on with the entire Juju
situation since the IndieGogo started has just left a bad feeling in
in the pit of my stomach.
Telvanni,
May
26, 2013
#111
Dime_x
Thermonuclear
- Team:
-
,
,
IsaVulpes said: ↑
Cee would get
paid with the possibility of an entire character, at minimum a
reference and appearances in Parasoul's story mode. Also they had
him sign a contract giving Labzero right to his OC.. so my point is
not moot.. ?
I don't really see how you can be so blind?
OC
Character:
Send a picture of your complete, thought-out
character design to LabZero + Pay 1000$ = Get a background NPC in a
single stage (and possibly only sometimes, as they're looking into
having different chars on it each time you select the
stage)
Juju:
Write a one line char description on
Facebook + Get lucky = Get a possibly playable character, but at
least a voiceline reference + story mode appearances + a place on
future artwork
.. Yeah, Cee is totally in a place to ask for
more!
... How can I be so blind?
Funny
when I think the same of you.
Anyways you do realize with
your first paragraph you become judge jury and executioner of how
cee gets paid don't you? And you do see how that creates a problem
for the person contracting/ using the intellectual property to just
say " this is what we are giving you, be happy with
that"
That's not how things work. There and I'm going
capitilize this so you really think about it and understand:
THERE
HAS TO BE AN AGREED UPON PAYMENT. If cee would have accepted his
character idea in game as payment in full and signed a contract
stating that... Fine. But he didn't.
Obviously he wasn't
happy with the terms, whatever they were. By compensation I'm pretty
sure that he meant monetary compensation.
And if he and
labzero were able to come TO AN AGREEMENT... Then it doesn't matter
what that monetary/non monetary compensation is as long as both
parties agree and can fulfill contractual promises. Part of cees
contractual promises were an nda and he violated it..,so no
juju.
But the whole "he should have done this or that"
is wrong, you are not him, you are not in his situation... Whatever
it is.
The only thing he "should have done" is kept
his mouth shut.
Dime_x,
May
26, 2013
#112
-
- Team:
-
You hate to see this kind of thing happen.
/SMH
rabbit360,
May
26, 2013
#113
Rellek
and banananap
like this.
-
- Team:
-
,
,
Redblaze27 said: ↑
Nothing really
has been learned, only enforced.
If you want to do anything
of possibly legal-iffy levels with fan idea's, have disclaimers
signed first before they submit them.
Look at the Project Megaman
Legends 3 Work Bench as a prime example of that, aside from the
Capcom decided to hate Megaman and give-up part.
There is plenty of learn about this, it
really explains why it's so rare for companies to use fan-ideas.
I
had a bad feeling with Juju the moment she was on voting poll, I'm
just glad this shit is done and over.
Lol@ the amount of
people reading this thread, the traffic Skullheart gets around here.
Ironboy89,
May
26, 2013
#114
-
- Location:
-
Argentina
-
Team:
-
Master Chibi said: ↑
Did we ban Cee
yet?
Can we?
Pleaseeeeeeee?
I'm not here to tell you how to do your
job, but be rational. Yesterday you called him a selfish individual
and went on a rant about he ruined the thread for everyone while
using very harsh language. Even if this IS the case, you're a mod
and you have to behave like such.
NegativeRainbow,
May
26, 2013
#115
Moderator
- Location:
-
Hackensack,
NJ
-
Team:
-
-
PSN ID:
-
m_chibi
-
Steam ID:
-
m_chibi
NegativeRainbow said: ↑
I'm not here
to tell you how to do your job, but be rational. Yesterday you
called him a selfish individual and went on a rant about he ruined
the thread for everyone while using very harsh language. Even if
this IS the case, you're a mod and you have to behave like such.
I'm a human being. I'm allowed to
express my dislike of the situation and what I think of certain
individuals. That's the literal extent of what I've done, and I
deleted my comment from yesterday as well (it was a bit much). I'll
never act upon such things but in certain situations (I'm as much of
a fan as I am mod) I want to express what I think of the
situation.
You are right mind you, but in both cases I'm just
just annoyed. Lab 0 and crew have gone through enough already, none
of this Juju nonsense was necessary.
Master
Chibi, May
26, 2013
#116
-
- Location:
-
Argentina
-
Team:
-
Master Chibi said: ↑
I'm a human
being. I'm allowed to express my dislike of the situation and what I
think of certain individuals. That's the literal extent of what I've
done, and I deleted my comment from yesterday as well. I'll never
act upon such things but in certain situations (I'm as much of a fan
as I am mod) I want to express what I think of the situation.
You
are right mind you, but in both cases I'm just just annoyed. Lab 0
and crew have gone through enough already, none of this Juju
nonsense was necessary.
I'm sure everyone else (even vadsamoht
him/herself) is just as dissapointed. Bashing, harrasing or
threatening to ban someone for no actual reason just gives the
community a bad image.
I am, however, very glad and proud you
took my words to heart. Just try to remain civil.
NegativeRainbow,
May
26, 2013
#117
2Chep
and gluemchen
like this.
EvaXephon
Video Game Streamer / Unpublished Indie Game Dev
- Location:
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Los
Angeles
-
Team:
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,
,
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PSN ID:
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EvaXephon
-
XBL ID:
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EvaXephon
-
Steam ID:
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EvaXephon
There's something that I don't understand.
Cee said "Juju
belongs to Lab0 now", and I understand that this is somehow
some kind of breach of a confidentiality agreement, but why would
that statement cause Lab0 to drop Juju? It seems like a relatively
harmless statement by itself. We already knew that Lab0 and Cee were
trying to get the matter legally resolved, right? So what's so bad
about announcing that the matter was resolved?
EvaXephon,
May
26, 2013
#118
Lab Zero
Mike_Z
Defender of the Night
- Location:
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CA,
US
-
Team:
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,
,
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PSN ID:
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MikeZWasTaken
Regularjoe said: ↑
Mike Z does
not want to collaborate with anyone who is rude (and I don't blame
him).
Except myself, of course.
Telvanni said: ↑
In this case,
I'd say they're pretty unrelated. Contracts are pretty set in stone.
If either party had of spoken out, the contract would have been
voided. Cee doing it himself kinda kills the analogy.
Nope. An NDA usually specifically states
something like "Party A is agreeing to give Party B some
confidential info. Party B can't make any of this info public
without Party A's consent, unless the info is already public, or
that action will constitute a violation of this contract."
Under an agreement like that Party A can say whatever they want,
it's their info.
Also don't be jerks to Cee, please.
Cathartic or not, it doesn't accomplish anything and it just
makes the community look worse. It especially makes the community
look worse when mods do it. ::ahem::
Mike_Z,
May
26, 2013
#119
TAG
New Member
- Team:
-
,
-
PSN ID:
-
TheAverageGuyTAG
Radnar said: ↑
View
attachment 676
I just... wow. Make it to the end of the
marathon just to slip on a banana peel.
More like accidentally firing your blue
shell when you just take the lead.
TAG,
May
26, 2013
#120
(You
must log in or sign up to reply here.)
Page 3 of 5
Juju Officially Removed From Skullgirls
Discussion in 'News
and Info' started by Cellsai,
May
26, 2013.
- Thread Status:
-
Not open for further replies.
Page 4 of 5 <
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>
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- Team:
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PSN ID:
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LordProsper
Damn, I really liked the idea of Juju. I hope they just like... keep
her playstyle and just change her race/hair or something, I loved
playing as Saki in TvC :c
MasterScrub,
May
26, 2013
#121
Shiro
Shishi Weilder of the Canadian Skullheart. It's poutine.
- Location:
-
The
Frozen Wastelands of Canada
-
Team:
-
,
,
I wanna say SO many bad words and stuff to the "concept
provider".
But
I cannot and will not because Mike Z would be disappointed in me
Shiro
Shishi, May
26, 2013
#122
Ausdrake
Girlskull is're making a duck
- Location:
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Australia.
Surrounded by monstrous fauna
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Team:
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,
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PSN ID:
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Ausdrake
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Steam ID:
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Ausdrake
Mike_Z said: ↑
It especially
makes the community look worse when mods do it. ::ahem::
Great power, great responsibility and
all that
Anyway,
the true irony of this situation is Juju's original whiteboard
sketch was a bit of a satire of the original idea, cuz it was kinda
dumb. In the end it came full circle and bit LZ in the butt.
Also,
cripes this thread has alot of traffic! That drama pageview count,
somebody call Kotaku!
Ausdrake,
May
26, 2013
#123
TAG
New Member
- Team:
-
,
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PSN ID:
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TheAverageGuyTAG
Ausdrake said: ↑
Great power,
great responsibility and all that
Anyway,
the true irony of this situation is Juju's original whiteboard
sketch was a bit of a satire of the original idea, cuz it was kinda
dumb. In the end it came full circle and bit LZ in the butt.
Also,
cripes this thread has alot of traffic! That drama pageview count,
somebody call Kotaku!
Actually, the irony is that what was
supposed to be a happy announcement wound up becoming Juju's death
call.
TAG,
May
26, 2013
#124
-
- Team:
-
Increasing orders of saltiness:
![ionic_bond_sodium_chloride_3[1].jpg](http://skullgirls.com/forums/forums/data/attachments/0/711-722506a3d817d8b3a897c36d5798e194.jpg)
![NaCl[1].png](http://skullgirls.com/forums/forums/data/attachments/0/712-452663bd2da88bdc2d1014bdf15ec27a.jpg)
![Halit-Kristalle[1].jpg](http://skullgirls.com/forums/forums/data/attachments/0/713-e20718cc9ba6475b6c7993c836d705fe.jpg)
![salt[1].jpg](http://skullgirls.com/forums/forums/data/attachments/0/714-29755830cb45cbc243f4bc422ac5f992.jpg)
![rock-salt[1].jpg](http://skullgirls.com/forums/forums/data/attachments/0/715-785864501815ef97188f8f2e65062e24.jpg)
![dead%20sea[1].jpg](http://skullgirls.com/forums/forums/data/attachments/0/716-acadb13192299399b4ecf766975fb1a0.jpg)
![Piles_of_Salt_Salar_de_Uyuni_Bolivia_Luca_Galuzzi_2006_a[1].jpg](http://skullgirls.com/forums/forums/data/attachments/0/717-a7a1197604f094bcb2aa8f49ac67f7bb.jpg)
![3N-worlds-Largest-Salt-Cave-1-750x477[1].jpg](http://skullgirls.com/forums/forums/data/attachments/0/718-11e0008f7d305dc449d8e428ae149862.jpg)
![Salt_mine_0096[1].jpg](http://skullgirls.com/forums/forums/data/attachments/0/719-224993e8eb82d44b50c684ec0f704860.jpg)
![large-salt-pile-792875[1].jpg](http://skullgirls.com/forums/forums/data/attachments/0/720-133b7d4e121ab916592e609fc89f5b2d.jpg)
I am here
Acoltus,
May
26, 2013
#125
-
Acoltus said: ↑
Increasing
orders of saltiness:
You forgot to put some McDonald's French
Fries at the end.
KaboomKid,
May
26, 2013
#126
Ausdrake
Girlskull is're making a duck
- Location:
-
Australia.
Surrounded by monstrous fauna
-
Team:
-
,
-
PSN ID:
-
Ausdrake
-
Steam ID:
-
Ausdrake
TAG said: ↑
Actually, the
irony is that what was supposed to be a happy announcement wound up
becoming Juju's death call.
That's the irony everyone notices. There
was a subtler one, which I pointed out.
Ausdrake,
May
26, 2013
#127
TAG
New Member
- Team:
-
,
-
PSN ID:
-
TheAverageGuyTAG
KaboomKid said: ↑
You forgot to
put some McDonald's French Fries at the end.
I hear that their hamburgers actually
have more salt in them than their fries.
TAG,
May
26, 2013
#128
Caleb
Savage Bypass
- Location:
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Argentina
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Team:
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,
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PSN ID:
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caleb_madsen
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Steam ID:
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Von_Kalev
After reading all this and the related topics, I just wanna
say:
Scumbag Cee is scumbag.
Caleb,
May
26, 2013
#129
-
TAG said: ↑
I hear that
their hamburgers actually have more salt in them than their fries.
Yo, it's the McNuggets you really
gotta watch out for! Those things are basically fried chicken tears.
KaboomKid,
May
26, 2013
#130
-
- Team:
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,
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PSN ID:
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Greylynx
![]()
really
though I'm someone who's not exactly the biggest fan of your game
however this sux.
PoeKing,
May
27, 2013
#131
-
- Location:
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Poland,
Warsaw
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Team:
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,
,
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XBL ID:
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Kawalorn (GFWL only)
-
Steam ID:
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Kawalorn
I can't believe that guy... as only profanities are on my mind right
now I better say nothing...
Kawalorn,
May
27, 2013
#132
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- Team:
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,
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PSN ID:
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AzureRunner
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Steam ID:
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Sol Neutralguy
Oh man this thread just turned into a trainwreck after page two.
Thanks for coming in here to say a few good words, Mike. I fear
people would start burning effigies in a few more hours if higher
ups don't try to defuse the situation.
Don't open your
pie-hole when business people make you sign NDAs. It is common
sense, guys. Not that anyone will ever need to worry about this when
L0 has been supremely soured on fan input for anything past a DLC
color.
Sol
Neutralguy, May
27, 2013
#133
-
- Location:
-
Germany
-
Team:
-
-
PSN ID:
-
gluemchen
-
Steam ID:
-
gluemchen
I can CEE clearly now, the rain is gone,
I can CEE all obstacles
in my way.
Gone are the dark clouds that had me blind.
It’s
gonna be a bright (bright), bright (bright)
Sun-Shiny day.
gluemchen,
May
27, 2013
#134
Jay
New Member
- Team:
-
,
-
PSN ID:
-
dersedreamer
facepalm so hard over all of this, just..
seriously. that
thread.
blugh.
oh well, nevermind.
(not an attack
meant maliciously, but I can't.. understand that dude. like
literally. to the point where I don't really get what exchanges
happened even reading the logs, so I guess never mind.)
Jay,
May
27, 2013
#135
SigmaMewtwo
Harbinger of New Beginnings
- Team:
-
,
,
-
PSN ID:
-
SigmaMewtwo
It's disheartening to see Juju go out like this, but at least we'll
be free of the drama that ensued from this. I wish Lab Zero the best
going forward from this situation, as I'm sure this was trying for
everyone involved. Just seemed to be too much of a hassle than for
what it was worth.
I would have loved to see her have her
chance personally, but at least we have other characters to focus on
now, right?
SigmaMewtwo,
May
27, 2013
#136
-
- PSN ID:
-
grapepoop
RIP juju
thankfully she wasn't an integral part of the
skullgirls canon (a nameless sniper works just as well, really), so
all we're losing is a good character design. which is a shame, but
it's not like we lost Filia or something.
ghosties,
May
27, 2013
#137
-
- Team:
-
,
-
PSN ID:
-
banananap
Aw man :[
Oh well, sometimes things just don't work
out.
Pointing fingers and negativity isn't going to change
what's done.
Doesn't change the fact that we're still playing
an amazing game, and hopefully we'll see the project grow even
larger than what it is now. ;]
banananap,
May
27, 2013
#138
GiZmOtmk
This ain't Albuquerque!
- Team:
-
,
I propose we change the text that appears after a 13 hit combo from
"Unfortunate" to "In Memoriam" or something like
that.
GiZmOtmk,
May
27, 2013
#139
adrua
New Member
- Location:
-
Argentina
-
Team:
-
RIP Juju
![[IMG]](http://imageshack.us/a/img515/1716/jujuegret.gif)
adrua,
May
27, 2013
#140
Eternal
New Member Forever
- Team:
-
KaboomKid said: ↑
You forgot to
put some McDonald's French Fries ChrisG at the end.
All the Kappas
GiZmOtmk said: ↑
I propose we
change the text that appears after a 13 hit combo from "Unfortunate"
to "In Memoriam" or something like that.
I think that 13 should be changed to
"nope"
Eternal,
May
27, 2013
#141
-
- Team:
-
,
,
Eternal said: ↑
I think that
13 should be changed to "nope"
If they changed it to "No.",
I'd reset after 13 hits every time
So pls don't do that :[
IsaVulpes,
May
27, 2013
#142
-
- Team:
-
-
XBL ID:
-
TinmanHitman
It was the last thing on my mind at first, but the idea of making a
new Black Egret Sniper is starting to seem more appealing to me. The
ideas behind Juju's fighting style seemed pretty awesome, so giving
them to another character, when an opportunity to do so comes about
after the higher priority creations, like the five first DLC
characters and the more story important DLC character after them, it
may be worth trying to build her/him/it.
As for Juju, I will
miss her, as I feel that there was much potential in her, only to so
suddenly end like this. I can only hope that at least some of that
potential can still shine in Skullgirls, one way or another.
Thank
you, Lab Zero, for your efforts to settle the difficulties
surrounding this character.
Skullgirls will go on, even
without Juju, and will still be an amazing game, with amazing
characters, amazing music, amazing VAs, and amazing developers.
juju_for_president,
May
27, 2013
#143
-
Well, so much for the fan art I was
working on. Thanks for the early heads up though.
calypsx,
May
27, 2013
#144
-
- Location:
-
France,
my little chocolate croissant
-
Team:
-
,
,
-
XBL ID:
-
Beuzer0
-
Steam ID:
-
Beuzer0
This sadly shows how tricky can it be when a company wants to please
some fans with the "poisoned git" syndrome.
What if
Alex didn't decide to name here "Juju"? Only the fact
she's Chinese would have been kept from Cee's ideas... It's not like
if he described her from her feet to the head, gameplay style,
etc.
I guess he kept the name as a little homage for the fan, but
shouldn't have.
I'm upset to see a fan proposing a character
idea and then starting to say "hey, what are you doing? Are you
going to start using MY character?!"
Usually,
when fans start giving character or gameplay ideas, they just
want to contribute, they don't think about rights and money.
Maybe some would like to have their name credited or get a little
gift from the team, making them feeling like a VIP, but that's all
because they're just glad to think that they contributed to a game
they like and say "hey, I told them about that" to their
friends and they're happy enough, everything else is a plus.
The
thing is, if you don't want to have a company using your ideas, you
just have to not pronounce or write a single word. Period. Plus,
we're not talking about a company that would make millions and
millions of $$$ by using Juju...
Ravidrath's said:
disruptive and
unprofessional conduct on Mr. McNeil's part
This is self-explanatory
This
got really ridiculous. Let's start to think about something else.
Beuzer0,
May
27, 2013
#145
YoYoCheese
World's Freest Scrub
- Location:
-
Atlanta,
GA
-
Team:
-
,
-
PSN ID:
-
YoYoCheese
-
Steam ID:
-
YoYoCheese6
If I were Alex Ahad (and I'm most certainly not) here's what I would
do:
DISCLAIMER: The following idea is public domain! I do not
claim ownership in any way nor do I want credit if it is used! Lab
Zero, you did not read what was under the spoiler tag!
(Did I
do that right?)
Spoiler
Toggle
Spoiler
I would just
make a character who wields a custom sniper rifle, is female, wears
a mask and a custom Black Egret uniform, and has a vaguely similar
body type to Juju. Her real name would never be mentioned, her past
would be a mystery, and she would never ever take off her
mask.
This way we fans can have the collective headcanon that
Number 13 is Juju and Lab Zero can avoid any legal troubles by
officially saying that she's just a mysterious female sniper that
has no connection to anything fanmade. The people who wanted her
solely for gameplay reasons get their sniper character and the
people who wanted her for other reasons get Juju by proxy.
And
TBH, they could just drop the sniper character entirely. It's not
like they have a shortage of characters to include. Also, maybe Alex
can come up with an even better idea than this. He and the rest of
the team are some really creative people; maybe they could come up
with something even better than Juju.
YoYoCheese,
May
27, 2013
#146
-
- Location:
-
France,
my little chocolate croissant
-
Team:
-
,
,
-
XBL ID:
-
Beuzer0
-
Steam ID:
-
Beuzer0
YoYoCheese said: ↑
If I were Alex
Ahad (and I'm certainly not) here's what I would do:
DISCLAIMER:
The following idea is public domain! I do not claim ownership in any
way nor do I want credit if it is used! Lab Zero, you did not read
what was under the spoiler tag!
(Did I do that right?)
Spoiler
Toggle
Spoiler
I would just
make a character who wields a custom sniper rifle, is female, wears
a mask and a custom Black Egret uniform, and has a vaguely similar
body type to Juju. Her real name would never be mentioned, her past
would be a mystery, and she would never ever take off her
mask.
This way we fans can have the collective headcanon that
Number 13 is Juju and Lab Zero can avoid any legal troubles by
officially saying that she's just a mysterious female sniper that
has no connection to anything fanmade. The people who wanted her
solely for gameplay reasons get their sniper character and the
people who wanted her for other reasons get Juju by proxy.
I guess he just need to change the name,
maybe changing her ethnicity and that's all folks, problem solved!
Beuzer0,
May
27, 2013
#147
Martholomule
Struggles not to be "That Guy"
- Team:
-
,
,
-
PSN ID:
-
Martholomule
I know that a theme with all this is that LZ is perma-soured on fan
input, but...
The CEO, developers, artists and other team
members interact with the community every day in many different ways
via multiple avenues. The open development process is an amazing
union of fans and developers and I've never seen anything like it.
Even though one guy screwed up one thing, we still have so much
interaction and we're working together to help shape future content
simply by having the conversations, joining the streams, talking on
the forums and going to Salty Cupcakes.
That's why I'm
disappointed but not sad. I liked Juju, but screw it. We've still
got such a long way to go that this is just a speed bump. Vaya con
dios, Cee, welcome to the footnotes.
Martholomule,
May
27, 2013
#148
-
For all the NALs out there: if you ever
find yourself having typed a post that contains "IANAL",
do yourself and the rest of us a favor and just hit the back button
on your browser. It's for the best.
Mattavist,
May
27, 2013
#149
-
- Team:
-
,
Zidiane said: ↑
You Cee, this
is why we can't have nice things.
I Cee what you did there.
Dragonage2ftw,
May
27, 2013
#150
R.
D. Covenant He Who Was Once Dravidian, But Is Still Cat
so can combo #666 be turned into Ceevil?
On second thought....I'd rather not give him any more
publicity.
RIP Juju. You're in a better place now.
R.
D. Covenant, May
27, 2013
#151
-
- Team:
-
,
Maybe Adam could be the sniper now instead of Juju.
Dragonage2ftw,
May
27, 2013
#152
-
- Team:
-
,
,
Ironboy89 said: ↑
There is
plenty of learn about this, it really explains why it's so rare for
companies to use fan-ideas.
I had a bad feeling with Juju the
moment she was on voting poll, I'm just glad this shit is done and
over.
Lol@ the amount of people reading this thread, the
traffic Skullheart gets around here.
Actually a few indie games do
use a lot of fan suggestions from their forums or testers.
"However
the thing is, when you go to any official game forum (if it has a
suggestions section) it will have a sticky at the top. This sticky
is generally a disclaimer stating that any ideas you post in this
section is no longer yours. The developers can alter, copy, or use
anything here with out having to compensate you. "
Stuff
like that.
Of course that is smaller companies. Bigger
companies tend to just ignore fan ideas because they already have a
set vision for the game (which at times they should totally not
ignore fan ideas... I seen some big games crashed because the
developers ignored issues the fans pointed out). Another reason why
bigger companies ignore fan ideas is since while most fans will be
happy just to get their idea in the game, a few will go after for
legal issues for money sadly.
Sinnox,
May
27, 2013
#153
-
- Location:
-
Metro
Detroit
-
Team:
-
,
-
PSN ID:
-
Xerce
Not really a huge loss (in terms of potential characters, not the
time/money spent on this whole ordeal). Just my opinion obviously,
but I always thought Juju was one of the dullest designs.
Jack
Jameson, May
27, 2013
#154
TAG
New Member
- Team:
-
,
-
PSN ID:
-
TheAverageGuyTAG
Eternal said: ↑
I think that
13 should be changed to "nope"
YES. YES. YES. DO IT.
TAG,
May
27, 2013
#155
-
- Location:
-
Poland
-
Team:
-
,
Let's have a moment of peace for this young(?) sniper.
ValentinaDante,
May
27, 2013
#156
-
- Team:
-
,
,
-
PSN ID:
-
Killeykun
The appealing factor to Juju was the fact that she was a female
sniper with an over sized sniper rifle. Beyond that, the physical
design of Juju wasn't anything particularly special. The fact that
Cee felt so entitled to the character when he only spatted a few
lines on FB is purely astounding.
Personally, I hope they
can reuse the sniper concept with out any legal issues in the future
but they may just avoid the character concept altogether. I'm sure a
lawyer could find some loop hole to draw similarities of Juju's
original concept with the next character and find some grounds for a
legal battle. Whether Cee would do that is another thing altogether
but with the threat of that possibility, it wouldn't surprise if Lab
Zero decides to avoid the situation altogether.
Killey,
May
27, 2013
#157
-
- Team:
-
,
,
Panzerfausts little sister Scharfschutzenmadchen (From what google
tells me it's the word sniper + girl) joins the fight!
Name
just roles off the tongue! Lab Zero if you want the idea you gotta
go through months of painful attempts to try to get me to agree.
This means you must deal with me saying rude things in IRC, on the
forums, and most importantly about your mothers. Also you have to
agree to my unreasonable requests for example: give me a limited
edition skullgirls arcade stick. Better yet give me one of those
fancy arcade machines!
Also if at the end I screw up and you
don't get Panzerfausts sister due to my lack of reading skills, you
still have to treat me nicely despite how pissed off I made you!
Razzle
Dazzle, May
27, 2013
#158
-
Can't believe the guy bitched out. That
guy is the reason why companies and individuals are hesitant on
taking fan ideas.
Louiscipher,
May
27, 2013
#159
-
- Team:
-
,
,
Well.
The concept was lovely. Could be...
can
anything be...?
How, just, deflating.
Feroquiera,
May
27, 2013
#160
(You
must log in or sign up to reply here.)
Page 4 of 5
Juju Officially Removed From Skullgirls
Discussion in 'News
and Info' started by Cellsai,
May
26, 2013.
- Thread Status:
-
Not open for further replies.
Page 5 of 5 <
Prev 1
2
3
4
5
- Team:
-
,
,
Unfortunate that now, other than the chance to vote the character in
the first place, there's nothing left to be salvaged from the
outcome of the fan selection for me. Maybe the official move
sketches for Beowulf will change things but right now, he's...I'm
freezing cold on him. But, make no mistake. There's no complaint
with how things as far as the vote went, from me. Things turned out
as they did.
Mustn't forget Eliza! :0
(not
my first choice by any measure, but there was a draw from first time
of seeing the character that I'm glad she will be fleshed out
(more!) in future. I'm really looking forward to seeing her "built"
by the LZ team in the coming months!)
Feroquiera,
May
27, 2013
#161
- PSN ID:
-
kikimaru024
![[IMG]](http://i.imgur.com/I67bOhd.jpg)
Oh
/vg/
kikimaru024,
May
27, 2013
#162
- PSN ID:
-
Ragnorok64
I feel like watching the development of Skull Girls has given us all
insight into what a gauntlet of stupidity one must go through when
developing a game.
Put out a game that sells decently, is
overflowing with smart design decisions, and has a slated schedule
for DLC. : Get laid off when publisher is sued over a completely
unrelated game.
Get approval for crowd funding to continue
work on the game whilst taking a pay cut and utilizing a workflow
that makes characters cost a fraction of what other companies pay. :
A chorus of people complaining because it's more expensive than the
imaginary number they had in their head for how much games should
cost to make.
Work away to publish a patch on Microsoft's
service. : publisher sends the incorrect build.
Try to
further connect with fanbase by including a character based on a
fan's facebook post. : Have that same fan turn around and want
compensation for "their" character. Spend all
the time
and money necessary to get the rights to the character only to have
that same idiot blow it all by breaking NDA.
If Mike Z hadn't
shaved his hair he'd likely have pulled it out by now.
Ragnorok64,
May
27, 2013
#163
- PSN ID:
-
kikimaru024
Razzle Dazzle said: ↑
Panzerfausts
little sister Scharfschutzenmadchen (From what google tells me it's
the word sniper + girl) joins the fight!
Name just roles off
the tongue! Lab Zero if you want the idea you gotta go through
months of painful attempts to try to get me to agree. This means you
must deal with me saying rude things in IRC, on the forums, and most
importantly about your mothers. Also you have to agree to my
unreasonable requests for example: give me a limited edition
skullgirls arcade stick. Better yet give me one of those fancy
arcade machines!
Also if at the end I screw up and you don't
get Panzerfausts sister due to my lack of reading skills, you still
have to treat me nicely despite how pissed off I made you!
Scharfschütze(n) would be the male
version; Scharfschützin would be the female. The "-mädchen"
part would be unnecessary.
Plus the joke with Panzerfaust was
that his "Faust" (fist) was a "Panzer" (tank); I
can't think of any other equivalent compound name for a weapon that
would work.
kikimaru024,
May
27, 2013
#164
specs
Excuse me, princess!
- Location:
-
Edmonton
-
Team:
-
-
PSN ID:
-
Langis360
-
XBL ID:
-
Langis Langley
-
Steam ID:
-
Axelhander
As far as I know, copyright laws in the US assign the rights of
derivative works (i.e., fanfics, fan-characters) to the IP's owner
(i.e., Skullgirls'). There's some provisions allowing for fair
use/parody, but that's it.
If so, Lab Zero/Autumn/Alex
Ahad/whoever could have simply just used Juju anyway, with no
compensation. Instead they tried to do the right thing, as it were,
and make everything square, an effort which was met with hostility.
Which is a damn shame.
Should I ever comment about SG
character ideas and anyone at Lab Zero/Autumn/etc. wants to use said
comments for inspiration, you have my full permission to do exactly
that.
specs,
May
27, 2013
#165
specs said: ↑
As far as I
know, copyright laws in the US assign the rights of derivative works
(i.e., fanfics, fan-characters) to the IP's owner (i.e.,
Skullgirls'). There's some provisions allowing for fair use/parody,
but that's it.
If so, Lab Zero/Autumn/Alex Ahad/whoever could
have simply just used Juju anyway, with no compensation. Instead
they tried to do the right thing, as it were, and make everything
square, an effort which was met with hostility. Which is a damn
shame.
Should I ever comment about SG character ideas and
anyone at Lab Zero/Autumn/etc. wants to use said comments for
inspiration, you have my full permission to do exactly that.
It's a little more complex than
that. To be a derivative work it has to contain the protected
elements of the original which are there when you have a fan fic
about rainbow dash and rarity chariot races, but aren't necessarily
there in Juju.
Both sides made some mistakes. Juju dude's
are pretty obvious. But, in retrospect: LZ + Reverge said some
unfortunate things about "fan created, co-creation, etc."
in the whiteboard wednesday and facebook posts . Alex shouldn't have
spent all the time developing anew character before making sure
everything was clear. The character shouldn't have been included in
the votable characters during the IGG before making sure everything
was clear. They might have spent more time explaining to Juju dude
what he could and couldn't do under the agreement. But even with a
time machine to avoid all this, we'd probably still not have gotten
her.
Hood57,
May
27, 2013
#166
Dude,
specs
and Ausdrake
like this.
Hood57 said: ↑
Both sides
made some mistakes. Juju dude's are pretty obvious. But, in
retrospect: LZ + Reverge said some unfortunate things about "fan
created, co-creation, etc." in the whiteboard wednesday and
facebook posts . Alex shouldn't have spent all the time developing
anew character before making sure everything was clear. The
character shouldn't have been included in the votable characters
during the IGG before making sure everything was clear. They might
have spent more time explaining to Juju dude what he could and
couldn't do under the agreement. But even with a time machine to
avoid all this, we'd probably still not have gotten her.
The only part that's true there is the
part about what they said on whiteboard Wednesday and the Facebook
posts. Amount of effort developing Juju basically amounts to just a
sketch on a whiteboard. She was not included in the votable
characters. I'm pretty sure they've done all they can to talk the
legalities with Cee. Lab Zero's only real mistake is being nice
people when dealing with somebody like Cee.
Psycho
Power J, May
27, 2013
#167
- Team:
-
,
-
PSN ID:
-
harleycake
Hood57 said: ↑
They might
have spent more time explaining to Juju dude what he could and
couldn't do under the agreement.
Hey now, Cee is allegedly 26 years
old. He is a grown man and Lab Zero shouldn't have to baby him on a
legal document that he signed his name to. Him not understanding (or
possibly just not even caring about) the terms is not their
fault.
You do raise some good points aside from that, but I
think in this situation a clear cut "everyone is equally at
fault" attitude just isn't fair.
halcyonharlot,
May
27, 2013
#168
kikimaru024 said: ↑
Spoiler
Toggle
Spoiler
Oh /vg/
I laughed a lil too hard when I saw
that. It's sad....but so funny to me.
R.
D. Covenant, May
27, 2013
#169
- Team:
-
,
Ragnorok64 said: ↑
I feel like
watching the development of Skull Girls has given us all insight
into what a gauntlet of stupidity one must go through when
developing a game.
Put out a game that sells decently, is
overflowing with smart design decisions, and has a slated schedule
for DLC. : Get laid off when publisher is sued over a completely
unrelated game.
Get approval for crowd funding to continue
work on the game whilst taking a pay cut and utilizing a workflow
that makes characters cost a fraction of what other companies pay. :
A chorus of people complaining because it's more expensive than the
imaginary number they had in their head for how much games should
cost to make.
Work away to publish a patch on Microsoft's
service. : publisher sends the incorrect build.
Try to
further connect with fanbase by including a character based on a
fan's facebook post. : Have that same fan turn around and want
compensation for "their" character. Spend all
the time
and money necessary to get the rights to the character only to have
that same idiot blow it all by breaking NDA.
If Mike Z hadn't
shaved his hair he'd likely have pulled it out by now.
Incorrect build?
What now?
Dragonage2ftw,
May
27, 2013
#170
- Team:
-
-
XBL ID:
-
TinmanHitman
Dragonage2ftw said: ↑
Incorrect
build?
What now?
Already happened. It is why the 360
Patch took so long after it was already finished. There was the
finished version, and the unfinished version from right before it,
and Konami sent the unfinished version to Microsoft.
juju_for_president,
May
27, 2013
#171
- Team:
-
,
juju_for_president said: ↑
Already
happened. It is why the 360 Patch took so long after it was already
finished. There was the finished version, and the unfinished version
from right before it, and Konami sent the unfinished version to
Microsoft.
Jesus, the SG's team just can't catch a
break,
I know the patch took a while, but I didn't know
that was the reason.
Dragonage2ftw,
May
27, 2013
#172
- Location:
-
Salt
Carolina
-
Team:
-
,
,
-
PSN ID:
-
DiddyBound
juju_for_president said: ↑
Konami sent
the unfinished version to Microsoft.
Three times in a row.
DDB,
May
27, 2013
#173
- Location:
-
Virginia
-
Team:
-
-
XBL ID:
-
Te1vanni Guard
Psycho Power J said: ↑
She was not
included in the votable characters.
A lot of people originally found out
about her because she was on the list for a while. She was taken
down before the actual voting started but she was originally
included in there.
Telvanni,
May
27, 2013
#174
- Team:
-
,
,
-
PSN ID:
-
Killeykun
Ragnorok64 said: ↑
I feel like
watching the development of Skull Girls has given us all insight
into what a gauntlet of stupidity one must go through when
developing a game.
Put out a game that sells decently, is
overflowing with smart design decisions, and has a slated schedule
for DLC. : Get laid off when publisher is sued over a completely
unrelated game.
Get approval for crowd funding to continue
work on the game whilst taking a pay cut and utilizing a workflow
that makes characters cost a fraction of what other companies pay. :
A chorus of people complaining because it's more expensive than the
imaginary number they had in their head for how much games should
cost to make.
Work away to publish a patch on Microsoft's
service. : publisher sends the incorrect build.
Try to
further connect with fanbase by including a character based on a
fan's facebook post. : Have that same fan turn around and want
compensation for "their" character. Spend all
the time
and money necessary to get the rights to the character only to have
that same idiot blow it all by breaking NDA.
If Mike Z hadn't
shaved his hair he'd likely have pulled it out by now.
Let's not forget about all the people
who withdrew their donation because their favorite character didn't
win fan vote 1, which froze up Lab Zero's funds further delaying the
project and causing much unnecessary stress.
I'm surprised
Lab Zero hasn't just said fuck you guys, here's your money back I'm
done with this bull shit and moved on.
Seriously, I hope this
Cee guy feels incredibly stupid and bad for what he's done. I'm not
torn over this but I'm incredibly angry at how idiotic this person
is. He's completely ruined this character for everyone else, and
wasted the time and money of the developers. All of this because he
couldn't keep his mouth shut and follow a simple NDA.
He was
probably getting a sweat enough deal considering all he did was
write a few descriptions in Facebook. :/
It should be
mandatory for people to get educated on how to use the internet and
social media when you're suppose to act professional. Way too many
cases of people losing their jobs over this but in the gaming
community it's caused players to lose their sponsorships.
Killey,
May
27, 2013
#175
- Team:
-
-
XBL ID:
-
TinmanHitman
Killey said: ↑
Let's not
forget about all the people who withdrew their donation because
their favorite character didn't win fan vote 1, which froze up Lab
Zero's funds further delaying the project and causing much
unnecessary stress.
I'm surprised Lab Zero hasn't just said
fuck you guys, here's your money back I'm done with this bull shit
and moved on.
It is the determination that Lab Zero
has had through all of this that has made me such a fan... not that
Valentine being my best fighting game character, the soundtrack for
the game being amazing, and all of the characters being
fantastically creative didn't help.
juju_for_president,
May
27, 2013
#176
- Team:
-
-
PSN ID:
-
CrazyYoshimitsu
i thought she sucks and the guy that created was an ass. no love and
respect for that. He was being a jerk for a bland and boring
character. So sorry for all the people that loved her. But she was
so not needed.
CYMasterHavik,
May
27, 2013
#177
- Location:
-
Norway
-
Team:
-
-
XBL ID:
-
Redhotchilimist
-
Steam ID:
-
Roedtaake
What a sad ending to this whole story. I can't believe this guy, and
I'm sorry this is how it all turned out. My condolences to Lab Zero.
Kristoffer,
May
27, 2013
#178
- Team:
-
-
XBL ID:
-
TinmanHitman
DDB said: ↑
Three times
in a row.
Wait, really???
Good gosh, it is one thing to make that kind of mistake once...
but THREE TIMES?!?
![]()
juju_for_president,
May
27, 2013
#179
- PSN ID:
-
Ragnorok64
juju_for_president said: ↑
Wait,
really???
Good gosh, it is one thing to make that kind of mistake once...
but THREE TIMES?!?
...
They didn't do the same thing three
times in a row. A few times they just missed things they should have
caught causing the patch to get bounced by Microsoft.
Ragnorok64,
May
27, 2013
#180
- Location:
-
Salt
Carolina
-
Team:
-
,
,
-
PSN ID:
-
DiddyBound
The first time, they missed something they should've caught. The
other two times they kept trying to send that same broken patch
instead of the fixed one.
DDB,
May
27, 2013
#181
- PSN ID:
-
Ragnorok64
So would it be be bad form to propose the Juju Memorial Bounty;
wherein whoever knocks Cee out of a tournament gets 13 donut holes
and a box of Juju candies?
Ragnorok64,
May
27, 2013
#182
- Team:
-
-
XBL ID:
-
TinmanHitman
Ragnorok64 said: ↑
They didn't do
the same thing three times in a row. A few times they just missed
things they should have caught causing the patch to get bounced by
Microsoft.
Ah, that is what I originally thought. I
thought that DDB meant that they sent the old copy of the patch
three times in a row. Silly me.
Still, Konami's mistakes were still facepalm worthy.
juju_for_president,
May
27, 2013
#183
- Team:
-
-
XBL ID:
-
TinmanHitman
Ragnorok64 said: ↑
So would it be
be bad form to propose the Juju Memorial Bounty; wherein whoever
knocks Cee out of a tournament gets 13 donut holes and a box of Juju
candies?
Make the reward the sniper cane that I
gave Juju in my picture, and I may have to consider...
juju_for_president,
May
27, 2013
#184
- Location:
-
France,
my little chocolate croissant
-
Team:
-
,
,
-
XBL ID:
-
Beuzer0
-
Steam ID:
-
Beuzer0
![]()
Beuzer0,
May
27, 2013
#185
- Team:
-
-
XBL ID:
-
TinmanHitman
Beuzer0 said: ↑
![]()
How... bizarrely fitting. I don't really
wish to seek out any form of justice on Cee... I just really want my
freaking cane sniper.
juju_for_president,
May
27, 2013
#186
- Team:
-
,
,
-
PSN ID:
-
Hisuichan
While not entirely in good taste, I read someone observe earlier how
weird it is...
That Juju was KIA on Memorial Day
weekend.
![[IMG]](http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/019/e/7/e76b22e2ba293fd6dceb5675a04affe3-d37kruk.gif)
(Never
forget. ;.; )
SunnyRei,
May
27, 2013
#187
- Team:
-
,
-
XBL ID:
-
CompelledMars4
SunnyRei said: ↑
While not
entirely in good taste, I read someone observe earlier how weird it
is...
That Juju was KIA on Memorial Day
weekend.
(Never
forget. ;.; )
Me: I'll never forget the friend I lost
in the war.
Dude: Woah, man. You had someone close to you die in
a war? Who?
Me: Yeah. My friend Juju was a high ranking sniper.
Killed In Action just about a day or two ago.
Dude: That
early?!?!? Man, I'm sorry for your loss.
Me: It's okay. Chances
are Lab Zero can release a new character who's similar as DLC.
Dude:
???
GodotsRevenge,
May
27, 2013
#188
- Location:
-
Australia
-
Team:
-
-
Steam ID:
-
Azzamacazza
halcyonharlot said: ↑
Hey now, Cee
is allegedly 26 years old. He is a grown man and Lab Zero shouldn't
have to baby him on a legal document that he signed his name to. Him
not understanding (or possibly just not even caring about) the terms
is not their fault.
You do raise some good points aside from
that, but I think in this situation a clear cut "everyone is
equally at fault" attitude just isn't fair.
26? His posts look like they were made
by a dyslexic 13 year old!
...Y'know, I'm probably more mad
about his bad grammar than Juju being exiled from canon.
Azzamacazza,
May
27, 2013
#189
Azzamacazza said: ↑
26? His posts
look like they were made by a dyslexic 13 year old!
...Y'know,
I'm probably more mad about his bad grammar than Juju being exiled
from canon.
I've met otherwise upstanding and
well-adjusted people who, incidentally, typed like 12-year-old girls
using Facebook. It still grinds my gears, but it's just a small
chink in the armor these days.
Genericaster,
May
27, 2013
#190
- Team:
-
Funny thing, now I just can't stop imagining stories and plots with
her.
The sniper is dead! Long live the sniper!
Osmiumsmith,
May
27, 2013
#191
...Many kittens had to die to subdue my
rage when I read this news...
RurouniLoneWolf,
May
27, 2013
#192
- Team:
-
,
The first time I read about Juju's "origin" this came to
mind:
https://twitter.com/noobde/status/300317697340764160
Xechs,
May
27, 2013
#193
- Location:
-
McDonough,
Georgia
-
XBL ID:
-
Unmatched Alpha
Wow that's some sad news. It's a shame with a company accepts fan
input and it all gets ruined cause of a blunder.
Who
Is Alpha, May
27, 2013
#194
- Location:
-
Japan
-
Team:
-
,
This thread has gotten entirely too mean. Bad stuff happened, move
along. No need to be insulting about this.
Locked.
Cellsai,
May
27, 2013
#195
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