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2 more ideas then Get ejected from the top - not likely, jumping would do basically the same thing easier Kill them then juggle them into the boss room and do what I said?

I assumed it meant take a monster down there and either get knocked past the boss or like end with a launcher then jump or something?

Someone was bound to have found these things before any of us did. They just didn't post it here or anywhere we know of.

There is already a slow in the form of Razmi's down attack, I wouldn't think the typical RPG statuses were out of the question at all.

I tried to jump across quite a few times in my attempts to find the secret and failed a whole lot. It must be possible though, just probably very tight.

The reason I would like the start from scratch NG+ all clear is that it would allow for some out of bounds shenanigans after getting the axe, but you would still want to do some fights for level ups. And obviously you would need to at minimum fight the 2 bosses when you reach NG+ so there...

I know exactly what you mean, there is a visual cue there, but it's like, the way you traverse that room, my eyes were always drawn AWAY from that area. When I noticed it, I was coming from an angle you would never normally come through there unless you were looking, so I felt pretty stupid when...

I don't actually know how speed runs usually treat NG+, but starting from scratch, allowing the out of bounds (although Mike seem to already want to remove it) and requiring a NG+ complete ending sounds interesting.

What do you mean? Did you find a non-normal way?

This was a great idea for a secret, a lot of fun and I'm glad we found this. Keeping me on edge that's for sure, testing my poor reactions.

And here I am still clueless EDIT: RIGHT AS I SAY THAT I need to get my eyes checked

Well before I saw Mike's post I thought about all the things you could lose, it was something you couldn't lose on the way to the boss, so I thought about letting the boss live. You can't run from the boss though, of course, so I tried to get over it but it doesn't seem possible.

I think he means me, even though I never said he was bad on point with optimal assists, just that tiering in such a way is leading to people having BB bottom or low on tier lists, which I find absurd.

Yeah my idea fell totally flat like all the other ones have anyway

I have an idea, though I don't have much faith in it, can't play for about 3 hours though

No, because then you get crazy things like BB being bottom tier when his utility is one of the best.

Can you even get to the boss without losing Roti?

The not being able to screw it up before the boss thing removes that as a possibility though

I'm gonna guess we want the cat to not have ran away, but I've basically got no ideas. If it doesn't involve breaking things, the rock is out? I actually messed around with that rock a bit the second time I got out.

I'm actually confused by something. Mike said you don't need the axe until the part where the axe is visually stuck in the wall after the armoured goblin thing in the second temple. Does this mean there is a way to get through vines before you get the axe?