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Beta Gameplay Changes Incoming!

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If you been playing the Skullgirls beta you may have noticed it plays fairly differently compared to the full version. In the last Salty Stream (0:02:08 timestamp ) Mike Z stated that the current Skullgirls beta build gameplay changes will be added into the main PC build soon. Mike created a community poll vote awhile back for feedback on the beta changes where the "Yes" poll votes combined for 51% may have been one of the contributing factors for this decision. Below is the summary of these upcoming changes from Mike.. [prebreak][/prebreak]
- IPS is the same (don't start a chain with a move you've previously hit with, Stage 5, etc.)

- Counterhit moves do 150% damage, on the counterhit hit only.

- Combos started by an assist are scaled to 66% (1000 dmg -> 667 dmg). Combos started by a counterhit assist are scaled to 90% (1000 dmg -> 900 dmg). Assists during combos do not additionally affect scaling.

- Undizzy now gets added anytime after Stage 2; the limit for a burst is 240, but the Undizzy value can go higher than that and is not capped at 240 after your combo finishes; the Undizzy falloff after a combo is much faster; even if your Undizzy is above 240, it will not give a burst until you reach Stage 5, to help allow short combos after resets even at full Undizzy.

- Counterhits subtract Undizzy: a Light normal attack subtracts 25, Medium normals/specials/projectiles/assists/throws 50, and Hard normals 100. Undizzy CAN go below 0, so a Counterhit combo can grant you up to 340 Undizzy to work with. It will reset to zero if it is below zero when the opponent recovers.

tl;dr Combos are much shorter; resets are still useful; bursts will be more frequent until people get comfortable with the new system. Good damage for < 1 meter so far seems to be about 7-7.5k instead of 9.5-10k.

Mike has not decided yet if these changes will wait until Big Band is finished or not. What is guaranteed is that the changes won't happen until sometime after NEC tourney event which will be run on the current MDE build.

What are your thoughts, concerns, praises, criticisms, etc regarding these upcoming changes in the horizon?
 
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Well, even though I'm not 100% a fan of these changes, let's hope they at least stick for maybe a full 12 months...please.
 
When's Elizeeerrrrr--- I mean, console patch?

Alright, alright! I'll show myself out... <:3


(PS: I well welcome the changes but that might just be my horrible execution skills talking.)
 
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So consoles will just skip MDE?
 
Last time I played on the Beta I really liked it. We did the previous Skullbats EU on the beta and it was great. I hope to have these changes in the retail game very soon.
 
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sooo chances are by the time MDE comes out on consoles it will be out of date again already?

ffs.
 
Evilweevle said:
sooo chances are by the time MDE comes out on consoles it will be out of date again already?

ffs.
Hopefully it'll just skip MDE and go straight to the new build
 
Evilweevle said:
sooo chances are by the time MDE comes out on consoles it will be out of date again already?

ffs.
No, consoles will likely skip MDE straight to the current version.
 
I liked the swag combo ability ;_;
 
IsaVulpes said:
People will unlock this shit in time and Eliza patch will have further combo shortening because these changes didn't actually do anything

Wait for it
Pretty much this. It happened with every other build; people will find ways to make long combos regardless of how much they're restricted.
 
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Whether people find a way around it or not, I think these sort of changes are positive for the long term health of the game. As things stand the game does seem to have a negative perception in some circles as being a single player solitaire game do to the length of the combos, and I admit when I saw the matches from evo as a casual player looking to decide if this was a game I wanted to invest any time into, that was the impression I got as well. It felt like one guy scored a crouching light and then we just watched him play out a 20 second long combo string before the action started briefly started again, only to transition immediately into another 20 second combo... and then the match was over. That really wasn't appealing to me to watch, and even less so built up any desire to play the game.

Now I understand some people like that type of game, nothing wrong with that, but I think those type of players are a pretty niche group, so I really do think these changes, if they accomplish what they hope they will, have the potential to expand the appeal of the game to a larger audience. Also really excited to see if burst baiting becomes a more active part of the game as its always seemed to me like one of the intriguing game play elements, yet I rarely see them in matches I find online.
 
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The only fear I have is the implementation how long it will take for the patch to get to consoles.
Nap1400 said:
Pretty much this. It happened with every other build; people will find ways to make long combos regardless of how much they're restricted.
To be fair, they are getting shorter each built. The original build had one minute combo, and each build is slowly decreasing how lengthy the average youtube timer of your average bnb combo is.

I don't buy anybody being able to get past anything longer than 20-24 seconds. It's matter of how long is "too long" of a combo.
 
I don't really see why it needed to be changed since combos aren't any longer then they are in other games at the moment. But whatever, bring on the new undizzy i guess
 
What's the point of this undizzy? To reassure noobs that combos will be shorter? People will just find big combos again. There's already a figured out Cerebella/Big Band 2 meter ToD and people are already starting to make 7-9k damage combos.

It just gives people more work to do from from grinding combos.
 
next beta: undizzy 100 plz

you know its the answer
 
So, the point of this change is what? To just make combos shorter or give players more chances? If it's to make combos shorter while not really affecting the damage, then ok...but if it's about giving players more chances then when will it end? Why not just put a come back mechanic in while we're at it? Also, pretty sure complaints will pop up about combo -> knock-down -> tech chase/oki - > combo leading to 2 touch's into death, and this will probably be the standard meter-less ender now anyway.

I'm all for the assist nerf and counter hit buff though. Undizzy still seems pretty confusing when what people are really complaining about isn't the combo length, but the fact that they die after getting hit once, which won't really change if they don't learn how to defend in this game. And no talk of "more neutral", please. SG will never be less momentum-driven than it currently is, live with it.
 
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All I care about at this point is just being able to play the game already. Once that is over and done with then I'll bother deciding how I feel about the changes though if I was to be honest about my initial feelings... not a big fan.
 
If these changes are to be included before Big Band, yes, consoles will get this with Squigly update since it is the most recent build.
 
MDE was fine, people who complained about it seem fail to realize that Skullgirls is a combo centered game, they want to turn SG into something that it's not. And while I agree that SDE combos were too long, I think IPS carrying over would've been a lot better. I don't think undizzy was the right approach to the problem. We had a great game with a unique and innovative combo system, which rewarded players who would play around and find good resets and damaging combos, now we're forced to go back into neutral and have to navigate through tons of assist calls or hide behind our own.

About the complaints of people not buying the game:

(MKvsDC sold 1.8 million)

You couldn't possibly expect Skullgirls to be as popular as mainstream fighting games but wait a second...

HOLY FUCK. WE WERE ON THE MAIN STAGE OF THE BIGGEST FIGHTING GAME TORNAMENT IN THE WORLD.

This is a great game people, for such a young IP to be this big is unprecedent in a fighting game. You guys are just way too hard on yourselves and don't allow the game to grow and be accepted.
 
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Wow this was one close poll to see if it was implemented, I for one am happy to hear that the IPS system will get a bit of tweak, meaning that you will have to mix things up rather than doing the same loops over and over. Now I just wait for Big band to hit and this, and I am one happy camper.
 
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Changes look fine to me. And who cares if they'll get overturned in the future? That's what players do, right? Find stuff that no one was aware of and have Mike change the rules again. It's pretty much a staple by now.
 
CaioLugon said:
HOLY FUCK. WE WERE ON THE MAIN STAGE OF THE BIGGEST FIGHTING GAME TORNAMENT IN THE WORLD.
Skullgirls was on around the same time UMvC3 pools were being streamed and I bet they still got more viewers than SG. I still don't see any changes to the offline SG community. Europe had only 2 SG tournaments (In London and Moscow) this year and they were both small side events.
 
Because the game is really new and has no predecessors. Skullgirls has a big beginner playerbase with the higher end not being there yet. A lot of non-FG players are getting into SG which means they don't really understand the community and hence won't participate in offline events unless it's for something like the cosplay. As far as I know the artstyle attracted a lot of tumblr people who mainly bought the game for the art, not the gameplay.
 
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True...remember Street fighter, KOF, Tekken, etc. have massive histories behind them. People who have been fans for many years and will by every new iteration of the series. Blazblue is by Arksystem works which gained a ton of fame through the earlier Guilty Gear series, P4A brought in RPGers.

I am really amazed at how popular Skullgirls is. I think pulling off this in fighting games is so much harder than other genres. Shows what great quality, a completely fresh look, and rockin' soundtrack can do.
 
IsaVulpes said:
People will unlock this shit in time and Eliza patch will have further combo shortening because these changes didn't actually do anything

Wait for it

L2combo noob, SG is combo game why do you want it to be a non combo game, lel.
Shnarfl said:
next beta: undizzy 100 plz

you know its the answer

Yeah and everyone will be all like "this is so awesome" then 2 days pass and it gets knocked back up to 200 with normals causing half as much undizzy. As Cerebella would say "Round and round we go!".
 
I don't mind too much anymore about the undizzy/IPS, despite having to learn new combos & shortening existing ones which I don't have much time for now unfortunately, but I still don't get the scaling jazz with assists. I use my assists sparingly...why do I get punished for it. I don't get that. People who get hit by assists over and over need to learn how not to. I do understand hornet bomber can be hard to deal with...but...idk...anyways, I don't like that part. Everything else cool beans but bit the assist scaling
 
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Nuuance said:
I don't mind too much anymore about the undizzy/IPS, despite having to learn new combos & shortening existing ones which I don't have much time for now unfortunately, but I still don't get the scaling jazz with assists. I use my assists sparingly...why do I get punished for it. I don't get that. People who get hit by assists over and over need to learn how not to. I do understand hornet bomber can be hard to deal with...but...idk...anyways, I don't like that part. Everything else cool beans but bit the assist scaling

Updo assist used properly can give you a full combo with no risk. The scaling is for things like this. Not to mention assist generaly allow you for plethora of mix-ups and set-ups impossible without them. For me it makes sense to lower their damage because of how powerful tool they are.
 
no because "Lenny at the air show" tracks the target
 
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