I'm low tier please buff. - A training thread by Stuff from the movies.

[Stuff]

So you see this thread and say "Well what the heck does that mean mister thread guy?"

Hello I play this game and do meh at it but I do have problems here and there like:

• I can't really adapt to things I've seen only once and can't even do this is short sets like tournament 2/3 types.
• My field of vision is really bad
  • Here it is when nothing moves:

Spoiler

• • Here it is when things like resets and set ups happen or just plain up close movement:

Spoiler

Exaggeration aside I REALLY can't see what's happening at most times.

• The way I play sg is by a premade plan based on how many times I see an opponent do something and that's not good.
• I often lose a bit to new styles and players I've never seen before and need lots of time observing them to just to figure out what their usual plan is.
• I don't play by reactions I use my memory of the opponent to see what's coming next. I'm basically guessing based on what I remember.
• I don't come from fighting games I primarily played RPGs so I often don't understand why moves work the way they do.
• I'll often jump because that appears to be the superior habit in low level play and often kills me in higher level play.
• While I do understand my a2a with Fortune I can't quite get the spacing correctly and often die trying to contest the air.

So here are a few teams I mess with here and there:

Fortune (H Fiber)/Big Band (L Beat Extend)
Double (L Hornet Bomber)/ Fukua (H Drill)
Fortune (H fiber)/Filia (H Hairball)

Notes about my teams:

Fortune/Big Band

I like these two together because I like that Big Band covers the air space that fortune cannot (she can do it but there are characters I feel are superior and can defeat her in the air) it allows me to stay on the ground while also controlling the air because Beat Extend is so large. I also use it because it helps fortune all around it helps me convert meterless from throws which I find very useful and feel they make fortune a bigger threat. It's also nice because it's easy to cross up with whether it's a random or intentional one I think it's nice that it's a multi-purpose tool. My Big Band is not very strong but Fiber seems great to back him up at times since he can convert from it although I don't feel any assist fortune could give would help out big band much he's already got a lot of things I find handy on his own.

Double/Fukua

This is just a team I dick around with. I think it's a funny team, no notes.

Fortune/Filia

A recently made team for what I call "The head cannon" thanks to how decap attack works if you manage to get the hairball to only hit an odd number of hits by the end of the hairball the head will launch a tiny bit further after hairball and it's also an active hit. I feel this team helps out with how I like to play sort of zone-y and keepaway-like. I know it's strange to do this as fortune but this is how I like to use the character. This assist isn't just for keepaway though and while I haven't messed with this team enough I think the head cannon has it's use in rushdown as it's a huge hitbox that moves similar to fortune's dash so perhaps it covers her movement. It's also nice to keep pressure because if it hits the head in the corner the lockdown gets even more intense. I'll try and find out if this team is worth using but I certainly enjoy it.

I don't have any videos yet but I'll just record a few replays for the purpose of examination. Perhaps you've seen me play at Salty or Rebel Up? I'm not exactly considered well known or good but I play at those things if you've ever seen me play there and have notes I'd love to hear them.

My top priority is fixing my field of vision so that I can actually see what is happening when I'm getting hit.

​

 

[IsaVulpes]

I just wanted to say that I love you

 

[mcpeanuts]

My Big Band is not very strong but Fiber seems great to back him up at times since he can convert from it although I don't feel any assist fortune could give would help out big band much he's already got a lot of things I find handy on his own.

Do you ever run Big Band on point? That's something I like to do when I recognize one of my main characters isn't as good as the others. It would also give you more opportunities to play with the assist choices. Admittedly I can't think of anything that would work better than Fiber. Maybe that uh sliding low kick that Fortune does? Can you even set that as an assist? I don't know anything about this character lol

 

[fenster]

For the vision thing, if the problem isn't related to glasses/contacts, or just related to experience (when I started watching Marvel/SG the first time, I had no clue at all what was happening cause it was so fast and so much stuff happening on screen, but over time that went away), then I don't really think we can help you there.

I'll just repeat some things I know I've said to you before from the many times we've played:

- Learn and complete a Big Band Combo. For real. Like, you know Fortune combos, cool! But a lot of times with BB you never really make on of your solid hits last long and you end up just going for a throw reset cause it looks like you've never touched BB in training mode. Doing lots of resets can work, but you really need to learn when to just finish the combo and there's too much footage of where your BB could've finished the job but didn't cause you didn't/couldn't complete the combo.

- Vary up the mixups more. You already know a bunch of them, but it feels like you never put it all together. You have been getting better about this lately.

- Mash out a little more? And I don't mean just headroll, use Fiber (headon) and use super as well, because so many times you crumble under defense when mashing would've worked. It'll get baited and not work a bunch, but learning when it will work or not is important, and adding that option to your defense will make the opponent second guess their resets the better you get at it. As is, you almost never do it and I feel like I can do mixups for days.

-Go for more raw throws, not tick throws, but actual run up throws in neutral such as when people downback+assist.

-Better throw conversions? This is extremely apparent when you just have solo fortune out, and while I'm no fortune expert I'm pretty sure I've seen headless fortunes use the head to convert off of ground/air throws, but in certain matches you just never try to convert in the same situation.

 

[Stuff]

Maybe that uh sliding low kick that Fortune does? Can you even set that as an assist? I don't know anything about this character lol

Nope you can't. I'm not sure why either.

Yesterday was Salty and Wing wasn't there that day I'm really sad I didn't get to use Team Khaos (Fortune/Hairball) against him just to see how it would fare.

I did get to test it on Weatherbee though and I think it did okay I still clearly don't know how to use it since I never really tried to go in while it covered me but man the pressure it can provide feels awesome. I don't think it does too well against Air type characters as they can simply avoid the hairball completely and got me thinking that I should maybe merge teams and run Fortune/Big Band/Filia but then I'd run into the problem I had the last time I used a trio which was character confusion. I used to run Fortune/Big Band/Cerebella but by the time my team reached Bella I would still think I'm Big Band and often mess up a combo because I forgot what the launcher for Bella is or something silly like that.

I think that Team Khaos is more suitable for the characters that also stick to the ground like Fortune does (Like against characters like Filia and Filia... I'm not sure what charaters stick to the ground in this game honestly) I really enjoy the huge pressure in addition to covering the transition to headless and keeping pressure.

After a while I did run Big Band on point against Shin but I don't think I did too well with Big Band I really felt like any hit I got just wasn't punished 'cause normally he just kinda dies. I did get a few parries in but didn't do anything with them. Overall I don't seem to understand what the heck Big Band's neutral even is I mostly just jump back j.lk cymbals since it's hard to counter I guess but there has to be a way to get IN with Big Band and not just be reading the opponent and doing a rush punch or a train. Like Big Band has really amazing normals (though some might say they aren't) nearly everything can be an anti air if you time it correctly and cr.hp is GIGANTIC. I almost wish Big Band was a grappler 'cause that's how I use him I'd at least like LK A Train to be a tiny bit more useful. Please let me combo from my really slow command grab with no invuln or armor! Well to summarize this (I'm assuming it is) mostly nonsensical rambling: My Big Band isn't my Fortune (which isn't very good either but there's no one who plays Fortune to compare it to so I guess that means it's good) it (Big Band) often tends to do nothing and while no one does it yet when they do learn to just snap in Big Band, I'm in huge trouble.

Now in even shorter summary: Team Khaos cool. Not good for air. Big Band bad need more neutral.

EDIT: I'm putting in the archives in case you want to see them.
Team Khaos poorly done: http://www.twitch.tv/ugclive/v/3656644
My Big Band doing poorly: http://www.twitch.tv/ugclive/v/3656644?t=1h42m30s

 

[IsaVulpes]

Fortune/L.BE/H.Hairball sure sounds pretty terrifying

Character confusion is a thing and I got it bad (worst when switching points; doing pea roundstart of iad jhk > backdash > h-l george, then noticing i'm parasoul), but it sure gets better with practice

I promise i will post more substance in the future, but i forget about this and then stumble upon it again when i'm in bed and about to sleep ;\

 

[Flotilla]

• Alternate between upback cymbals and upforward j.LK, you will be surprised how many people get caught by j.LK thinking that you're going to do cymbals for the 100th time.
• c.MP is a good normal to use at the start of the round. On hit, you can chain it into c.HP > H Brass and have them in the corner in the first 5 seconds. On block, you can chain it into c.HK or L Giant Step for a safe mixup that can take out a little chunk of their health.
• You can be hit out of L Beat Extend's startup, and out of M and H Beat Extend's active frames since they take awhile to reach the air. In many situations, M Brass/M A-Train can be a more reliable reversal for escaping pressure; you won't be one-hit out of them by anything except for moves that break armor like grabs/hitgrabs. In M Brass' case, being able to cancel into SSJ (itself being an armored move) gives you a whopping 4 hits of armor that allows you to contest tons of stuff.
• Parrying is good, but always have a plan for what happens AFTER you parry. If you're just going to parry on incoming without any idea of what to follow up with, you might as well just mash timpani since the invuln frames counter more incoming setups. Jump-in parry > j.LK works against a lot of stuff if you have a predictable opponent, and even if you don't get a punish you can often get a blockstring out of it.
• I'm going to go out of my way to mention this because I'm pretty sure I saw you mess this up at Salty: You can parry Val's ground scalpels and quickly cancel parry into SSJ for a full-screen punish. This works at ANY distance.

 

[Stuff]

Is M Brass really 2 hits of armor? I didn't know that at all.

 

[Stuff]

Did you know that pretty much any reset Filia does Fortune can do? Fortune also has the better mobility and neutral.

Get on it nerds.

Anyway more notes on Fortune/Filia (Team Khaos)

Uh let's see I think I haven't found the correct way to use this but the more I use it the more I feel it's meant for characters that stick to ground because it seems kinda useless if they can just jump past hairball. Its lockdown also isn't as strong as say Cerecopter but I'm headless fortune I can just add on to what hairball is already doing AND still move which I feel makes it something to fear once mastered and I have yet to do that but I think I'm doing okay with it.

My Filia is literally mashing any button I cannot stress enough how EASY this character is why can't anyone block her and why do I feel such guilt when I fraud a victory out with her? Like at much higher levels I still feel it's the same brainless pressure but I shouldn't I judge because I run Team Scrub the x/beat extend shell but oddly enough I feel less guilty using Team Scrub than I do Filia.

Onto the more real notes I don't have much of a neutral game with Filia as I just press any random button because they're all pretty good buttons. I haven't figured out how to use gregor to blast through someone pressing a button midscreen 'cause oh man it's a good super. I don't know any combos yet and any reset I do is just a poor copy of what I've seen other Filia players do although some of it is improvised because I feel she's one of those type of characters. One where you succeed just by being random. I also tend to never dp but that's something I do with every character I play on point I refuse to dp and that might be bad.

Fortune is okay I guess I'm trying my best to learn how to space out air attacks and know when they WILL work because none of her moves are disjointed and one mistake trying to a2a either gets me killed or puts me in pressure and I don't like either one. I have been goofing with new resets they're basically copies of filia resets because I figure if no one can block those and Fortune can do near exact copies then why the hell not. I've been trying to reset when I know I won't kill rather than go for the full combo and I think that's a good idea because I should keep my meter safe until it will kill otherwise I might need it later in a bad situation but I would have already spent it doing a combo that won't kill and that's dumb. As for synergy with Filia I feel they have it but I don't use hairball to my advantage and even still it puts in some decent work even when I mess up. I did notice that I still call it like a damn dp assist but that's just me with poor habits and habits go away with time so I'm not too worried there.

This is something for me to read.

Spoiler: Advice I get from Vulpes

<Isaceo> Hi
<Stuff`> hey
<Isaceo> Why r u not playing a trio?
<Isaceo> And can u please please throw people some man
<Stuff`> 'cause I'm not confident in having three yet
<Isaceo> I caught u vs midiman for a while before i fell asleep and like
<Stuff`> and if I'm terrible at big band I wouldn't want my terrible big band to die faster
<Stuff`> I don't throw midi 'cause I'm scared he'll super and solo supers really hurt
<Stuff`> I threw shin and render and even did a few new resets
<Isaceo> Midi in the corner, u call hairball, iad jhk which he blocks, some lows and headattacks, call hairball, iad jhk
<Isaceo> 10 times in a row
<Stuff`> oh yeah I wasn't sure if I was doing a blockstring or not
<Stuff`> he just kinda stood there and it confused me
<Isaceo> And then u did dashup purrserker barrage
<Isaceo> And died
<Stuff`> I thought he might super
<Stuff`> I'm not good at guesses
<Isaceo> That's kind of a silly risk to take
<Isaceo> Anyway u will have to throw him
<Stuff`> well what what did you think I should've done
<Stuff`> just continue chipping him?
<Isaceo> And ur offence sure didn't look like someone afraid of solo damage
<Stuff`> 'cause I don't think midii was actually gonna do something I just mor eor less panicked
<Isaceo> I was kinda scared cus u were setting up happy birthday pbgcs for him
<Isaceo> Very consistently
<Stuff`> oh right I should not do the double dp on the ground it's super unsafe
<Stuff`> then again I should make sure that just my point dp will get all three hits
<Isaceo> I meant more hairball call+fortune iad 3 buttons
<Stuff`> oh wait this about ha- yeah
<Isaceo> Thats a free pbgc death every time
<Stuff`> yeah I don't know how to use hairball yet
<Stuff`> I'm not sure how I could get to cover me or make it do an odd number of hits on the head on purpose
<Stuff`> because if it hits an odd number of times the head is active and that has more hitstun than the end of hairball
<Isaceo> 1)throw 2)mix up ur strings, literally every time u did hairball, iad during hairball, then clks and head until clk out of range, then hairball iad (eg why not iad throw into low, or iad jhk iad jhk el gato, or emptyjump forward upback ad jlk axekick.
<Isaceo> 3)stagger your strings rather than always sticking to the same rhythm (eg instead of always clk head clk head clk head, do clk head walkfoward block head delay clk delay sneeze)
<Isaceo> Makes him more scared that you may throw etc
<Stuff`> that's a really good idea
<Stuff`> I forget I can block after a sneeze
<Stuff`> so dropping my combo on purpose to see if they were gonna do something silly
<Stuff`> though I will say being in diamond drop distance is also pretty scary
<Isaceo> If you are scared of solo for being solo, you are losing on char select
<Stuff`> what's that supposed to mean
<Isaceo> That means that being weary of mashes should be a thing against someone who mashes
<Isaceo> Not against someone picking a team size
<Stuff`> Oh
<Stuff`> well I'm more scared that midi knows where the openings to my resets are
<Stuff`> but I guess that means they're just too obvious
<Isaceo> Having a careful offence against a masher works out cus u will block the reversal and get a full punish
<Isaceo> Having a careful offence against someone that doesn't reversal means you have no offence
<Isaceo> If playing against solo instantly makes u scared of reversals, then any patient player can pick solo and won right there
<Isaceo> Cus u won't attack them anymore
<Isaceo> Someone decent who picks solo vs u wins on char select since u wont attack solos
<Stuff`> that has happened before
<Stuff`> but recently they've stopped doing that
<Stuff`> kinda like how no one snaps in my big band yet
<Stuff`> they know I'm bad at him but I don't know why they wouldn't bring him in
<Isaceo> Also for some reason u are deathly afraid of reading that ur opponent will continue what theyve been doing for the past 20 seconds
<Stuff`> I always expect something new
<Isaceo> But have no qualms doing smth that costs 2 bars and loses against what theyve been doing
<Isaceo> A bit backwards innit
<Stuff`> sometimes I think "maybe I'll catch them on recovery" or something and then when I do it I lose

Also,

Spoiler: Sekrit how to beat me tech.

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[Icky]

Also,

Spoiler: Sekrit how to beat me tech.

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If I am reading this correctly

you strongly believe that you're the best big band


wow

conceited much

 

[Stuff]

You bet I am. Who even is McPeanuts or Drewski?

Today someone actually snapped in Big Band I'm so happy to see this because you really do win the second you do because big band neutral to me is a mystery.

I can't seem to ever do a reversal and I asked Mike about it, turns out there's a 3 frame window to do it. My execution and reactions are really lacking so I'm starting to feel the just memorizing things won't help me anymore.

I'm also starting to feel like Big Band to fortune has really bad dhcs unless I have 3-4 meters which makes me a little sad but I can just NOT dhc and that's okay too. I've also been trying to stray away from the up back cure-all but often times I can't see what's happening or can't do reversals really well yet. I wish there was a Parasoul or Filia blocker of sorts 'cause those are the ones I can't see at all and Wing just so happens to play both of them. Welp :I

I took about a week break so I'm not sure what else to comment on. My new reset which is a copy of filia's reset seems to work so that makes me happy.

 

[mcpeanuts]

Today someone actually snapped in Big Band I'm so happy to see this because you really do win the second you do because big band neutral to me is a mystery.

I was playing Luweewu the other day, he snapped in my Big Band and then I killed him with Big Band. It was pretty sick

Anyways neutral with Big Band to me is all about abusing his really good pokes especially L Brass, when you sense that they're hesitant to do anything you go in usually with j.LK. When people snap in Big Band that's a different animal though, that isn't really "neutral" since they start at advantage. I'm actually a bit more comfortable playing Big Band at a disadvantage than I am playing him at neutral. That one is a bit easier to me, it's just, are you gonna DP or not. If you read that they're gonna bait DP you can try to back throw them into the corner, or if you're not that confident in the read just mash like s.LP and try to get a mixup or something.

I can't seem to ever do a reversal and I asked Mike about it, turns out there's a 3 frame window to do it. My execution and reactions are really lacking so I'm starting to feel the just memorizing things won't help me anymore.

Yeah the timing on reversals is really hard so you need to practice it. Set up the dummy to do some common resets or setups to you and try to reversal them. There's some setups that even though it's possible to reversal out of them, it's prohibitively difficult; you'll know which setups once you start practicing this way. If you watch Sage play he almost never tries to reversal out of reset situations, he always tries to block the first mixup then PBGC into his reversal.

I've also been trying to stray away from the up back cure-all but often times I can't see what's happening or can't do reversals really well yet. I wish there was a Parasoul or Filia blocker of sorts 'cause those are the ones I can't see at all and Wing just so happens to play both of them. Welp :I

This is another thing you can set up in training mode. Record 3 different things for the dummy to do. If it's Parasoul try something like

Recording 1: f.LP, c.MK, s.HPx2 xx L Tear
Recording 2: c.LK, c.MK, b.HK xx L Egret
Recording 3: c.LK, b.HK xx L Egret

Then set it to play back randomly and try to block it. Set a goal like get 5 blocks in a row or whatever.

 

[Luweewu]

I was playing Luweewu the other day, he snapped in my Big Band and then I killed him with Big Band. It was pretty sick

Sheeh, rub it in more, bro.
(fite mi)

 

[mcpeanuts]

Sheeh, rub it in more, bro.
(fite mi)

LOL sorry. For what it's worth I think it's a good strategy even if it didn't work, if only because fighting Peacock assist isn't as bad as fighting Big Band assist.

 

[Luweewu]

@mcpeanuts no worries
Rewatched the match; The first match I snapped in BB mainly for the health regen and to get Peacock out, but you DHC'd back to her soon afterward. Second match I did snap BB, but Peacock was dead so it was for the health again.

Made several unforced errors on my part that cost me both matches, but your team is hard to handle. If I don't get in somehow, Solo Squigly doesn't get meter ever. And even if I do get 2 bars, you'd have 4-5, making a snap a costly and somewhat pointless measure if I was trying to get BB in, since you have a safe DHC option. That DHC option does put me in a good position vs Peacock if I am able to capitalize on it though (you did do M Bang xx Argus trying to bait a punish attempt, but I didn't fall for it. Very good for me as it left you at 1 meter, but i didn't capitalize.)

Still want that fight tho

 

[mcpeanuts]

Still want that fight tho

k hmu when I get home

 

[Stuff]

I'm starting to get bothered by using fortune in my team at all. She doesn't seem to offer anything to the rest of my team other than meter but if I play Fortune/Big Band/Filia and get snapped then Fortune assists are kinda not helpful to the rest of my characters. Fiber is okay for Big Band I guess but he already controls the air and a lot of space without it and I don't feel like Fiber really does much for Big Band because he's got a ton of things without a need for an anti air assist. I don't see Fiber being useful for Filia either as it's really difficult to convert from and well Filia also has pretty great air moves and I have Beat Extend so it's just completely inferior in comparison. Head-on assists aren't very handy if I were to get snapped and what I want is a team that functions well in any configuration because that way you have no weakness.

I like to write my thoughts down because I'm thinking of running the new beta assists for Fortune (Cat Slide and El Gato) because these sound really neat for both Big Band AND Filia regarding potential mixups such as big band's overhead safe jump and slide coming in for a neat hard to blockable maybe. These assists are also only available when Fortune is headless so getting snapped in doesn't sound as rough.

So for the rest of the team:

Filia has good synergy with Big Band and after fighting with Yaya that one time in his kumite I have decided that hairball is really awesome for him if you use it like Yaya does with dnb and the other way around you got Filia with a DP assist which I'm not even sure she needs but it's nice to have.

While I haven't really used the full team (Fortune/Big Band/Filia) I have found that I can do sillier things (nearly endless pressure and mixups barring pbgc) with this configuration but haven't learned to capitalize from the silly things I can do.

Experiment team Fortune/Eliza:

It's not the best team because of the assist I use and I don't know how to use eliza yet but I have found that I really enjoy chair assist. This assist has tons of weaknesses like being destroyed by another assist and hitting fairly low to the ground and moves fast so an opponent just jumps over it =/ It's definitely a not as good Lock and Load if I could compare it to something. But the damage with these two really make me want to make this team work. Not to mention the neat benefits it provides like allowing me to do the corner fiber combo midscreen to every character that isn't Bella (her hitboxes and hurboxes are so stupid I hate them so much) but a slight adjustment and I tiny bit of damage loss fixes that. I just think the fact that the chair keeps them floating for a second let's me do things that I haven't experimented with but if I can figure this out I can see that this team can be really cool.

Here is a few things I've done with it:

Reset combo 48 undizzy (can go higher but this is as high as the usual reset goes in terms of undizzy)

I already forgot everything I just wrote. Good thing I wrote it down.

 

[Stuff]

Today I got to play against Khaos and it went pretty well. My endurance is still bad because it wasn't too long a set (my butt can't handle sitting for 10+ matches) it went 13-18 I believe. Not too bad albeit Khaos still being a bit rusty but I didn't do as great at this in mirrors before when he was even more rusty. So I'm not sure how I feel about that but I do want to record the replays (hopefully they didn't desync) and upload them later because I feel there can be a lot to dissect from 1v1 fortune mirrors and that might help me learn in the long run.

My Filia is still very crummy but haven't really practiced her much so I dunno what to say about it. Same goes for Big Band.

This one is short because I've mostly been doing training mode and I didn't get to play much at salty.

I only did this in training mode:

I think it's cool though I'm unsure if this set up already exists but I was much too lazy to do anything like look for them in the forums.

(Hopefully I get the replays in.)

 

[Mike_Z]

Yo, I think you did OK with Filia!

 

[Yomabuddy]

An older part of the OP and thus not extremely relevant but I feel like I really really really really really need to say something about this since this is my first time in this thread:

The way I play sg is by a premade plan based on how many times I see an opponent do something and that's not good.

This is actually a good way of going about planning a general game plan. The problems come up when you play someone for the first time and you don't have any match vids to rely on, or if your opponent changes up their style/fakes their actual style (something I've seen happen before, shit's nuts when it happens really) but the latter's too high level to properly discuss. The idea should be to have a general game - ah fuck it let me just post what Viscant said about it.

Maj: One last question, because i’d hate myself if i didn’t ask this. You’re probably the gameplanningest player i’ve ever met. I remember asking you about some CvS2 Yamazaki matchup, and you literally described how one action would have an impact 30 seconds later.

Can you explain what’s going on in your head when you approach an important match?

Viscant: This is a hard question to answer since so many matchups have different objectives. I think the best way to do this is to start with the difference between big objectives and small objectives. The big objective is the overall gameplan. In order to win this match, I must do this. I have this on my mind at all times. Smaller objectives are important, but they don’t have my full undivided attention.

I put the rest of his statement in a spoiler since it's really long and not SG related.

Spoiler

Some match examples might help out here. Take the Blanka vs. Abel matchup in SSF4. It’s possibly one of the worst matchups in the entire game, at least 7-3 in Abel’s favor. Perhaps worse than that.

The reason for this imbalance is the ultra meter. Abel’s ultra (Soulless) is virtually guaranteed to land on Blanka every round. It can punish horizontal ball on block or on hit. It can punish EX vertical ball on block or hit. It can punish EX rainbow roll when Blanka tries to escape the corner (and since the ultra takes away Blanka’s only reversal, he’s going to end up there sooner or later). Abel’s reel animation seems to twist to avoid electricity, making combos into electricity from low forward range nearly impossible – meaning that you need the horizontal ball for damage. Just a lousy matchup all around.

So here’s the big objective in this match. I must get the lead. That’s it. If it comes down to 50% vs. 50%, I can’t win this match. The ultra will get me eventually, whether he combos into it or punishes something successfully. I must start every round strong. I must be ahead by at least 30% by the time ultra meters come into play.

So everything I do in this match is geared around gaining the lead. If I have to spend meter to do this, I will. EX rainbow roll at any sign of trouble? Sure! Can’t risk him getting a mixup on me and taking the lead. Combo into super? Sure! Most Blanka matches you want to hang onto your meter because you need EX horizontal balls for anti-fireball and EX verticals for anti-air. Doesn’t matter here, I have a damage opportunity. I MUST take it.

If I have the lead, now we look at a smaller objective: how to get Abel to use meter on my terms. Soulless does 500 damage when fully charged, but 350 damage when Abel first gains access to the move. Since I figure I’m going to get hit by this anyways, I’d rather eat the little damage instead of the big. So now I try to make him burn the meter.

Luckily in this matchup, Abel has no reliable punish to a horizontal Blanka ball besides the ultra. In certain situations with a proximity variable he can punish it with dash forward into step kick, but I can control that variable. So now I’m going to start feeding him horizontal balls any time I can sneak them in there. I’m just telling him “Come on, do it! You know you want to! Take it! It’s right here for you!” Eventually they’ll do it.

Then I can play the rest of the match without worrying about the ultra bothering me again. But I can’t get to this smaller objective unless I’ve achieved the larger objective of playing the match from ahead.

Another example that isn’t so outright suicidal: Dee Jay vs. Ryu, still SSF4. The big objective in this match is to get the meter and then once you have it, conserve the meter. The match changes quite a bit depending on how much meter Dee Jay has at any given time. The fireball war is huge in this match. If Dee Jay doesn’t have meter or isn’t willing to use it, Ryu dominates the fireball war.

But if Dee Jay DOES have meter, he can blow through a fireball on reaction easily with EX sobats. Plus, EX sobats knock down and throw Ryu into the corner. Also, Dee Jay’s anti-air options expand when he has meter. If he doesn’t have meter Ryu can play an effective guessing game with the crossup jump forward, the fake crossup jump fierce or the crossup hurricane mixup. If he DOES have meter, all 3 of those options lose to the same move, EX dread kicks which will autocorrect itself if done properly.

So as you can see, holding meter is very important. If this was SFA3 where you start with a full bar, Dee Jay would probably either beat Ryu or at least hold his own. Instead since you have to fight him early on without any tools, this can be an uphill battle.

At the start of the match I’m going to do anything I can to avoid engaging Ryu until I have at least 2 meters built up. I’ll start the match by zoning him with fireballs. Each one builds only a fraction of a meter, but I can’t take the chance of getting hit or getting knocked down or getting into a close proximity fireball war if I don’t have that meter yet, so it’s turtle time.

Fortunately, there are only a handful of tournament level Dee Jay players in the world (much less in any given area) so a lot of players will simply allow me to turtle at the beginning since they don’t even really understand the goal of the matchup. Against more experienced Ryus though, getting and conserving meter becomes a chore.

A very good Ryu player who has played this match with me many times, like ShadyK for example, knows what my objective in this matchup here is, and will try to counter me. Say I only have 1 meter. He’ll start throwing unsafe fireballs at me, knowing that I don’t REALLY want to blow through him at first and leave myself meterless. But at the same time, I can’t let him take the initiative. Mind games!

Anyways, let’s look at a smaller objective in this fight. Let’s say I have 3 or 4 meters and the gathering phase of this match is over with. Now the smaller objective is to figure out what to do with what I’ve earned. Most Ryus want to throw fireballs, so I like to give them as many opportunities as possible to throw unsafe fireballs.

I’ll do a semi-safe jump in with knee shot (air down+short), then do a block series like c.jab, c.jab, c.short and then wait. The “natural” Ryu response here is low forward xx fireball. BUT since I pushed myself out of range, I can slip EX sobat in between here.

Another way to get Ryus to throw unsafe fireballs is to fake breaking your charge. From a down-back position, I’ll stand up (while still holding back) and do a s.short. I still have my charge here, but there’s something about how that s.short looks that makes people think I took a step forward. If the fireball comes out, I’ll take this opportunity to blow through.

So what I’m trying to say is, in order to gameplan for your opponent effectively you have to have multiple plans, little and big. They all have to fit together to form an overarching strategy. Dee Jay vs. Ryu and Blanka vs. Abel are both very uphill fights, so gameplanning is more important in these fights, but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t plan for every matchup.

EDIT: The rest of the interview's here if you want to have a look http://combovid.com/?p=2743
TLDR: Game plan is muy bueno strategy. Have an overarching game plan and smaller objectives, but change them up if they don't work.

 

[Mike_Z]

what Viscant said

That's an excellent source to quote for this, and he's right.

I still laugh that Viscant POSTED HOW HE WAS GOING TO PLAY HIS PHOENIX TEAM before Evo, and then won Evo doing exactly that.

 

[mcpeanuts]

I love reading Viscant talk about anything. I wish he updated his blog more often.

 

[alexpi]

That's an excellent source to quote for this, and he's right.

I still laugh that Viscant POSTED HOW HE WAS GOING TO PLAY HIS PHOENIX TEAM before Evo, and then won Evo doing exactly that.

Maybe he was just next leveling everyone? Like, everyone saw his post and thought "there's no way he's playing it exactly as he wrote it."

 

[mcpeanuts]

Maybe he was just next leveling everyone? Like, everyone saw his post and thought "there's no way he's playing it exactly as he wrote it."

The first big tournament I ever entered for Skullgirls, one of my opponents straight up told me before the match he was going to just wait for me to call Hornet Bomber then counter call it with his own Hornet Bomber. I did think it was some next level shit at first but first game I played him it was like "oh wow he really is doing that". I started playing around it and won.

 

[Stuff]

Uh so here's some footage that took 13 hours to compress and caused my processor to heat up to 200F. That was fun. I'm not sure if later qualities exist but yeah.

Solo Fortune Mirrors:

There are 4 other parts but I'll upload them when I get a new heatsink and fan for my cpu 'cause I guess you're not supposed to do things like compress a large video when it's that hot. Who knew.

(part 1 is just khaos figuring me out and parts 2 and 3 will be when he makes a comeback so I'll appreciate notes for the later two parts.)

I'm the orange one and khaos is the purple one.

 

[Mike_Z]

Maybe he was just next leveling everyone? Like, everyone saw his post and thought "there's no way he's playing it exactly as he wrote it."

No, Dark Phoenix was just that broken.

 

[Stuff]

Okay part 2 where khaos begins his stellar comeback (I think. I didn't really rewatch this and don't remember the set too well)

I'll write myself some notes later 'cause I'm sleepy right now.

 

[Stuff]

I finally got my cooling fan and heatsink

This is where khaos gets real. It's also where I want advice from if anyone wants to give any.

720p60fps still hasn't processed. 320 is only available atm.

I hate runaway val, never again. I did fine in an earlier set but I think I just went in too reckless in this one.

 

[fenster]

For the stuff in the Khaos matches, I actually don't think you did too badly. I think you made okay decisions and had okay approaches and did okay resets and etc. Really, if you want to look at something from that set, you should just make a note of all the character tools that Khaos was using that you weren't really using. He used more Head-on Fiber as a mobility tool, he was willing to go headless and seemed much more adept at using headless's tools for mixups, and just in general he had more reset points to take advantage of. People probably won't keep getting hit by the dumb jHK burst bait as much in the future, so while its okay as a burst bait, it definitely felt like your variety in resets was lacking compared to his. And luckily that's not a hard fix, just look up more fortune play and lab up the resets yourself till you have them down and just start doing them in matches.

For the Outlaw Spike match, it just didn't look like you were at all ready to deal with val. He got away with a lot of Bypasses they you could've just blocked, the times he did do Bypass xx Scalpels you kept responding with weird options that wouldn't have worked when you could've just kept it at the basic Air grab/Button press guessing game, and as you said yourself you were really impatient. Like, there are a couple of matches where your Big Band did alright in not over committing, but by the same token there were a bunch of ones where you were just sticking out Brass and SSJ cause it seemed like you were flailing around. If the Val wants to runaway, go in and corner them and learn to pressure them well from there and don't overcommit when you don't have to. Another tip is to be expectant for the times where you go under Val as she's whiffing a dead cross. You CAN punish her there but you always seemed to surprise yourself and didn't know how to handle it, at the very least keep air grabs in mind.

 

[Stuff]

Thanks for this Fenster I've been thinking about both these matches for a while now and have been doing a few of the tricks khaos used and they work and it's great although I tend to forget the new things I learned because of the old things I already know. I think it's just the muscle memory messing me up.

Also, headless feels so damn technical but not in execution or anything it feels like my awareness levels have to be incredibly high in order to use it properly. Is that why people say headless is hard? It's easy to use at first but being effective at it is very difficult. Keeping your pressure on block can be difficult when your head can get pb'd and that messes up pressure a lot. Even if I fiber back in so a smart thing to do is to stagger your blockstring so that they get hit but judging on that gets really difficult to me. Just being a pressure all around the opponent is just something that requires lots of experience and player knowledge or something.

This a pretty short post but my big band still sucks and so does filia and those need my attention in order to actually make this team work, I often wonder how much better I'd be if I actually learned my other characters.

There's something bugging me but I already forgot what it was I think it might have to do with cat slide assist being cMK head-on. I think it'd be cool if it was sMK instead then it would be decent-ish but I think that might not be fair or something.

EDIT: Oh I just remembered what was bugging me. I won't be able to go to locals for a bit. Stupid money.

 

[Stuff]

Holy shit I haven't updated this in forever.

Well I've dropped Big Band since forever and now I play a team that I feel is more offensive than defensive.

It's now Fortune/Painwheel/Robo (H Fiber/5MK(H Pinion sometimes)/H Beam. I guess I should list the pros and cons I think this team has.

Pros:
- Amazing neutral thanks to Beam assist, it scares some people into not pressing buttons or jumping away beam with lets me run in and throw them or whatever else depending on the situation.
- Team works in any order. I can do PW/Fortune/Robo Robo/PW/Fortune and it all works and I feel each character has its own strengths against each character.
- Safe DHCs* (*they aren't technically safe because PBGC exists but no one really punishes these yet)
- Great pressure Fortune and Painwheel when they get in they are stuck in and I feel it's really hard to get either of them out and beam just sorta solidifies that.
- Decent Alpha Counters, fiber assist is an amazing AC vs projectiles and other things and pw 5MK lets me fly to unfly or super and 5MK has armor iirc (granted it's a bit slow though I'm sure I can charge armor from AC)
- Good damage, Fortune can get 7.4k or so on most characters 8.2k in the corner and 11k corner CH combos, PW does much more I think her near corner bnb is 8.?k I forget but it's really high I don't know her corner route but I assume it's also really high. Robo does similar damage
- Easy to use characters I think other people might say like pw is hard but I dunno she seems really easy to me.
- PW armor is FUCKING AMAZING I don't see too many sg streams but I rarely ever see anyone do 5[LP] to beat out most reversals not to mention the two bonuses you get for hitting them with it (CH Hatred Guard) which you can also fly cancel if you feel you'll get thrown.
- Fortune's fiber is dumb I guess I'm adding individual character pros but man this move is so dumb, unless it's blocked it's good and even then some people have trouble punishing fiber on block
- Robo's heads are cool Drone Ram Missles I can pick a favorite and they all have their own use none of them feel useless to me
- Meter gain. I got Fortune on point the second highest meter builder depending on what route I take I can build almost a bar or the whole bar
- Each character (I dunno about robo yet) has an overhead safejump set up which are really handy when you don't want to worry about getting hit for doing the wrong read.

Cons:
- Painwheel doesn't seem to have a useful assist this isn't a bad thing but it's something to think about because I have her on mid usually. I don't know what helps robo AND fortune I've tried pinion which is cool
- Having point fortune means I have to block well and I cannot do that yet but the second I do this will not matter as much
- Robo anchor is very iffy, she's not the best for comebacks I feel but it's possible just really rough for the person doing robo anchor
- Fiber is a weird assist I don't understand it too well. It's like a better pillar to me in that it goes diagonally forward to the opponent but has the same weakness pillar does which is to jump over it. But I feel that if I use the assist more I'll get a good understanding of it.
- Some DHCs don't work, Feral to Death Crawl, Beam super to CSF That's about it but it's something to consider.

I can't think of much else. I don't know how this team goes with whatever the meta is (and I think it doesn't follow it much at all) and I don't know if this team is GOOD but this is a team I enjoy to play.

Now let's talk about what I still do wrong.

- I drop my pressure (I mess up an iad or just do absolutely nothing and let them leave)
- I have poor inputs (I'll try to block overhead and upback by mistake at times I somehow get a back input when I DP and that makes it so that it takes no input I get 24 instead of 214 sometimes that one bugs me the most I dunno how I manage to do that. When I block low it isn't immediately the 1 input I get 4 for one frame THEN 1 so I get hit low because of that one frame of high block)
- I upback too much when I'm not sure what to do
- I try to chicken block assists too much
- I don't respect reversals as much as I should
- I don't know too many pw resets or robo resets
- I commit too much as headless
- I drop my pw near corner combo sometimes
- I do the wrong combo on happy birthdays (the fiber loop which is universal)
- I don't know all my midscreen kills
- I can't block well
- I don't understand stagger pressure (though I've gotten a better understanding of it thanks to fosh)
- I still call my assist like a dp assist (I no longer have one but still have the bad habit of calling assist when I block)
- I don't capitalize on my punishes regardless of knowing the route (I think this is muscle memory and I get worried about dropping the optimal punish combo)
- I armor too much? I feel like while when I get PW armor counters it's great but eventually someone is gonna try to throw and I can't react to or read those throws yet.

Things I do right?

I dunno I win sometimes I guess. I feel like my pressure and mix ups are okay but I dunno I don't think I've really really taken notes on what I do well and I should probably do that.

That was fun.

Feedback? Feedback? Maybe? I dunno.

 

[Dime]

Of course take anything I say with a grain of salt.

Beam assist is AMAZING against grounded teams, but kinda loses potency against aerial teams. The fact that it can be ducked, while easily take advantage of via overheads, is still a style cramper in many situations.

Robo anchor:

Not the greatest in terms of comeback ability, but in terms of safe dhc, highly damaging super, and great assist, she's a damn good anchor.

Painwheel... Yeah, lots of people need to use her armor a bit more. It is REALLY GOOD in the right situations. How I use it:

St.lp/cr.lp or cr.mp are my armor choices.

St.lp for basic flowchart armor use, cr.lp so that Pw Ducks the first hit of assist BE L and doesn't get broken by BE L multi hits (credit to @ClarenceMage for teaching me this) cr.mp cause it's a confirm that lasts longer and has multiple armor hits to beat things like st.lp,cr.lk which is designed by my opponents to beat my LP armor.

Cr.mp armor is also very good as a frame trap after a blocked cr.lk or what have you. But be careful with this because if your cr.lk is pushblocked then you will be sitting there charging cr.mp from a mile away and will generally be put at a decent frame disadvantage if you don't react super quick to the pushblock.

Resets:

Pw resets are generally pretty easy. You just fly into an overhead or throw or do a cr.hp overhead.. Etc etc.. I won't explain those to you as they are just stupid simple and obvious. What I will give you, if you want it is my patented air reset. It's a great reset and has multiple options including a universal burst bait/air throw mixup and a highly ambiguous left/right:

Have a jlp tracked by IPS then:

St.mp, jmp (4) xx fly

From here you have many options depending on whether you have an assist or not.

Do df airthrow for an air throw.

Do df jlp for a burst bait.

Call an assist then fly crossup the opponent/left right (works great with BE L assist)

Do another jmp to catch the opponent as they are falling and possibly catch them teaching late, or blocking crossup, but mostly this is just a way to get the opponent to block a midair jmp so that Pw can run left/right mixups when she had no assist available for the first left/right... Like if she confirmed from an assist the first assist left/right I mentioned isn't available. Also, since they block this midair, no worries about an assist beating you out in general. Heavies will block this on the ground so... Probably don't bother.

There are lots more reset variants to go with those... But that's probably the absolute best reset that Pw has in the air without a low assist, because of the burst bait, since the burst bait will lead to a dead character more times than not and also comes with a left/right along with many tertiary options, while not allowing assist calls from your opponent so you can go for confirms in peace without having to worry about some updo/pillar/BE ruining your good time.

In the eepvent that your burst bait didn't work and they pressed nothing, you generally get a low/throw mixup when they land. This isn't a safe mixup though since they me an mash AA assist. But it's something. If you have something like BE assist, then you can call it just as you land and then go for a quick low or throw while the BE protects you. If the cr.lk hits the BE will combo off of it since you called it before you did cr.lk. If it doesn't hit, you have enough time confirm into armor/fly/ on block since BE will increase the stun time.


fortune:


You have a midscreen throw conversion via throw>hp rekka plus assist (qcf mk+hp head on to call h beam) that will give you a confirm midscreen from a throw so that's great.

Delayed strings are easy with fortune especially. There was once a Korean fortune player that specialized in doing things like lp lk lp lk lp lk with delays on them to catch pushblocks and high blocks. It's a a great way to pressure even when assists are involved. Things like st.lp into iAd jlk xx lk el gator are good mixups and people will want to jump out/pushblock you out which is where the staggered cr.lk to hit jumpouts or pushblocks comes in.


Ok so now that I've said that. Your team is good but MAJORLY lacks defense. Once fortune is out you have little defense.

Weere I you I would experiment with Eliza butchers blade assist... Yeah it costs a "fortune" in meter (forgive me) but fortune makes a lot of meter and Pw doesn't really need it THAT much.

Plus with that assist you get to do really dumb shit with fortune such as:


H fiber plus assist.

Makes h fiber safe. And you can use it after blocking you pr opponents assist, or as a safe pbgc, or as a frame trap or you can even react to enemy assist calls offline and fiber through them if you are quick and really put your enemy in a world of trouble by locking their assist out while putting them into lockdown.

You can also use the assist for easy peasy throw conversions and if the opponent pbgcs through your stuff, then the assist can still win cause of hyper armor beating basically everything.


So yeah just some food for thought cause I have some time. Don't take anything I said as gospel. Much is written from memory. Test things out yourself to verify.


Have fun :)

 

[skull person]

You said Painwheel's assist doesn't really do anything for Robot, but Robots assist is obviously helpful for Painwheel.
Maybe you should just play Painwheel as your anchor.

I think Painwheel is a better anchor than Robo Fortune.
Painwheel has a real reversal even if it's not very good.

She also has more control over neutral without using an assist.

Anchor Solo Robo-Fortune has to spend a bar every time she gets a ground throw if she wants to do anything with it.

Fortunes Supers DHC'd into Magnet are safe.
I've checked that before for someone else, so that wouldn't be too different for your point Fortune.

Also here's the throw conversion I found playing in training mode for a bit.
It's pretty simple once you get the timing.

 

[Stuff]

I have never been able to get that conversion. I'm glad to see it's possible thanks for that, Skarmand.

If I do have pw anchor I can probably come up with tag combos to get her out so I can get beam assist going though I will be worried for the times robo ends up as anchor but I guess I can't completely avoid it.

 

[skull person]

I have never been able to get that conversion. I'm glad to see it's possible thanks for that, Skarmand.

Try hitting Assist at the apex of the enemies blast height and then your beam needs to hit as close to the OTG bounce as possible.
That allows RF to have the most time to jump around and stuff.

If you do it right you have enough time to let them push you across the stage while touching them in the air.

 

[Stuff]

Hey another update!

I still play this game and while I feel I've gone stagnant in terms of improving I still decided to main another another team.

Why? I dunno!

Okay so I forgot what brought up robo assists and then I said hairball and skarmand tested something with it and Robo can do a magnet combo after hairball hits.

In Stuff world this means "Hey that's probably fun let's do it" and so I did.

This team is Robo/Filia/Fortune the assists are H Beam/H Hairball/H Fiber I'm finding that Fortune doesn't really fit and I should probably replace her with double because L Bomber is easier to use as a get off me than H Fiber is though H Fiber is more of a DP that does sort've space control or at least that's what I think it's suited for anyway this team has NO DHCS other than robo magnet dhc which means "Hey don't try to mash because if you mess up you can actually die". Also point Robo makes that even more relevant as she has no reversal and ahahahaha 5HP winning on wake up hahahaha you're a funny guy. (Although on the rare occasion it does I'm elated.)

Other than that it ties in with how much I liked headless with hairball and the fact that hairball let's robo do lots of things like convert from throws both air and ground pick up from jHP and pushes people away when I don't want them to pbgc my robo.

I haven't played enough with the team other than making a few combos here and there so I'm not sure what its potential is if it even has any

I have also changed my Fortune/PW/Robo team by switching for L pinion assist which is a million times better because fortune's poke becomes a bit more of a threat and leads to 8k from 5HP all thanks to L pinion it also helps Robo not for the pokes but because of the centuries of hit/blockstun it provides and I can still do throw conversions with pinion so that's cool

(PW/Robo/Fortune is probably cool too but I have yet to try that and probably should)

Well anyway lets talk about my play:

• I'm still told I jump a lot
• I don't always confirm my stray hits and that really is a factor to me not winning as much as I feel I should
• Still can't block
• I still don't use the Fiber loop (What is wrong with me)
• I don't do any advanced resets I usually just do simple low/throw things I don't have any crazy second layer shit no one is going to see coming (I need to seek out more tech videos)
• My neutral is rather poor and I'm not sure why because I don't understand fighting games in general too well
• I don't know any anti mash set ups other than "sit there and do nothing" which uh gets me killed quite a lot
• I'm not sure how to go about A2Aing it seems too damn scary and I dunno what to do
• I don't feel comfortable with Robo's normals they all look bad and I have no faith in them
  
• Moving with Filia feels very foreign because I usually play characters with good mobility options
• When people jump I'm just lost
• Don't know a headless combo other than what I improvise, same goes for set ups

Not sure how to address some of these but I think I can figure out a few on my own.

Also sometimes I get Robo 2LK and 2MP whiffs and I cry and on some characters robo will do 5HP after a ground chain against an air opponent the wrong way and that also makes me cry but I'm not sure I can do anything about the last one. Robo is so difficult to use

Why can Bella reflect my mine? I know it's a projectile but damn.

Stay tuned for when I update this thread in another couple of months.