Low / Throw mix-ups and you!

[skull person]

This is a video for people who are just starting off in Skullgirls all the way to some more intermediate players.
Mainly for those who might not know about some of the things covered.

Anyways this video is about *TIGHT* low/throw "50/50" mix-ups and one way to defend against them.

Here is a video discussing pre-block with lows, and ways you can neutral jump to avoid low/throw setups:

Just a few quick notes to clarify a few things regarding the first video:
○ You cannot be thrown if you are holding 'up' no matter how close they time the throw to your landing.
- - You can be thrown if you are staggered and holding up, however (But you can still tech while staggered unless it's a command grab)

○ This first video applies to normal throws and lows, command grabs will break this defence because you cannot tech command grabs.

○ If the enemy delays the c.LK, you'll be standing and starting a throw, so they will hit you.
- - This means if their low / throw mix-up isn't very tight and there's a delay, you'll end up getting hit.

○ In all the examples I've set the AI to select between low and throw randomly for Video 1. (If I'm the one blocking it)
○ Just mash Diamond Dynamo to avoid all of this

Hope this helps someone!

Feedback is appreciated as this is my first tutorial styled video.

 

[Hilary]

LK+MK Throw Tech RIP in pizza carbonara. ;_;7

 

[Cynical]

LK+MK Throw Tech RIP in pizza carbonara. ;_;7

Hardly total "RIP"; just gotta know to find a way to delay that c.lk a bit if your opponent is doing this (you'll know if they are, because otherwise they won't be teching throws).

With Val, it's easy; mixing up between fastfalling your j.mps and not fastfalling them will blow this up. Or you can just do something like
(in corner)
launch -> j.hp -> adc -> j.mp (one hit) -> j.hp
land
j.lp -> j.mp (one hit) -> j.hp
low/throw

on lightweights since they'll be "falling into" the low or the throw.

EDIT: None of the above is to say that this isn't a useful video, of course. It definitely is. I just want to point out that it's not total "RIP low throw mixup"; you just have to think a bit more to apply it. Or you can just play Bella.

 

[Dime]

The only problem with this tech (its a basic os that ive used for awhile) is it loses to double and even triple low. So things like vals stupid cr.lk,cr.mk. Doubles cr.lk,cr.mk, parasouls cr.lk,cr.mk etc etc etc

There is the possibility to low block, throw break, low block input... I think. But it would of course be very difficult depending on the speed of the cr.mk low.


It is certainly a useful option though. Another os that is possible is low block, forward jump. Amongst others... Etc etc etc

Forward jump is actually one of this games premier mechanics on defense. Especially out of rote confirm strings like those that painwheel use... Mostly with pbgc though some are forward jumpable without pbgc iirc.

 

[Icky]

I was under the impression that lows hit you while holding up back because they do NOT trigger pre-block, and it causes you to get hit out of pre-jump frames. Where if someone does an overhead/mid while you're holding up back you get put into pre-block causing you to not start jumping, and instead block.

An example is that titan knuckle doesn't trigger pre-block (at least from far distances, not sure about up close) and THAT beats up back while being only a mid.

Am i wrong with my understanding of how things work?

 

[Cynical]

Nope, lows hit when you're up-backing because they *do* trigger preblock. You can test this yourself by setting the training dummy to do a particularly "loose" low reset; hold up-back, and you'll get hit, but hold up, and you won't.

 

[Icky]

Then why does titan knuckle beat upback? or am i an idiot and it actually doesn't?

 

[Cynical]

Titan Knuckle beats upback because the jump doesn't get cancelled into a preblock past a certain range, and its hitboxes are tall enough that it'll hit people a ways off the ground. Try it at point-blank, and upback will beat it every time.

 

[Icky]

"Pre-jump frames and interactions with blocking

- All characters have 4 frames of jump-startup. As an exception, Cerebella's Superjump has 6 frames of startup.
- Prejump frames are throw invincible
- Prejump frames can be canceled into special and super moves and maybe other things? (needs checking)
- Prejump frames can (and will) be canceled into a blocking state if an opponent's attack forces you into preblock
- This means that low attacks will often hit somebody who is holding up+back, even if they would otherwise be able to jump in time to avoid it, because their jump will be interrupted into a standing block which will get hit low
- Mid or high attacks will interrupt your prejump frames and cause you to block them standing
- Preblock is caused by an attack within 200 pixels distance (at 720p), measured from the edge of one character's collision box to the opposing character's
- Moves that do not cause preblock to occur will hit you out of your jump startup and you will not be able to block them while holding up+back during your jump startup frames.
- Things that do not cause grounded preblock: Assists, Projectiles, Fortune's head, Excellabella, Take the A-Train, throws (anything else?)
- If you are holding up+back against one of the above attacks you will be hit out of your prejump frames (excluding throws, since prejump frames are throw invincible)
- In some cases you can avoid a low/throw mixup by holding up or up+forward, as you will not go into preblock from the low attack if you aren't holding up+back.
- For example, Cerebella's cr.LK has 8 frames of startup, if you hold up or up+forward, you will be able to get off the ground before cr.LK goes active unless Cerebella has some frame advantage to work with. If you were holding up+back, preblock would prevent you from jumping and you would get hit"


You guys are correct

Source: http://skullgirls.com/forums/index.php?threads/game-mechanics-thread.2625/

 

[skull person]

There is the possibility to low block, throw break, low block input... I think. But it would of course be very difficult depending

It's not very difficult I tested that too.
You just have to be fast, but it works fine.

And yeah preblock won't trigger if you empty jump so you can avoid the lows easier. I'll add that in a bit.

Hardly total "RIP"; just gotta know to find a way to delay that c.lk a bit if your opponent is doing this (you'll know if they are, because otherwise they won't be teching throws).

He's actually talking about how when I first uploaded this the first line was "You can tech throws with LK+MK."

 

[skull person]

Added a video about pre-blocking, let me know how it is or if I mixed something up.