• As part of the relaunch of Skullheart, ALL previous threads have been archived. You can find them at the bottom of the forum in the Archives (2021) section. The archives are locked, so please use the new forum sections to create new discussion threads.

Moderator Problems and Rule Clarification Requests

IsaVulpes

IsaVulpes

Just Throw
Joined
Sep 3, 2013
Messages
2,953
Reaction score
3,888
Points
113
Age
50
Location
Trinidad && Tobago
Website
www.youtube.com
Ms. Fortune Filia Double
Ask here about Forum questions that are not "Can we add plugin X" / "I got an Error Message" etc, but pertaining the Forum Moderation/Rules

Such as "Am I allowed to open a thread X", "Why was my thread closed", "Someone deleted four posts in thread B, what for?" etc

As Vadsamoth is strictly working on the Forum itself and not doing moderation / community management anymore,
it seems sensible to split threads rather than cluttering "Feature Requests" with "I don't like this mod".

"Why not just send a PM to the staff?"
- Public questions/answers make everything more transparent
- Helps other people who have the same question (eg a thread in OT gets closed, now a single post here is sufficient; rather than 15 people sending the same PM)
- Oftentimes you don't know the Mod responsible for an action (Thread closes are generally obvious, post deletions aren't necessarily) and thus have no idea whom to PM
- Some people WILL just prefer posting over PMing, and those end up in the Forum Problems thread and make Vadsamoth sad
- etc

Do your worst

E: Of course sending Mods your questions via PM is still fine, this is merely an additional option.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Cellsai, mcpeanuts, WarpedEcho and 5 others
This is a good idea, anything for more transparency and accountability for Moderator actions is good for the health of the forum community. That being said, I would like to remind forum goers that if you see that a thread is going off topic, be sure to report the posts that are extending the derailment. While moderators do not always have the time to process every request, it will certain be helpful to some point. Additionally, I think that there should be more discussion with the community as to Forum changes and such, as opposed the the closed talks in the Moderator forum, which noone has access to except Moderators and Admins themselves. I would love to see Community Ambassador positions open on the site as well, this way some of the traffic regular mods get can be split, analyzed, and directed to where it should go, as opposed to an overflow of requests to the same mods all the time. This position could also allow for permissions to view and post in Mod only forum, but not edit, move, or delete other posts or threads (If that's possible that is.) This way there is even more transparency between the site upkeep and regular forum users. Additional Subforum (and perhaps specific threads) Moderator positions should also be opened I believe. This is especially true for certain heavy traffic threads such as the PC Beta Update thread, because as a somewhat regular poster there myself, there are many times where that thread will be off topic for a page or more of discussion with no repercussions. Off Topic is another beast of a situation, and many threads posted there are deleted, locked, or "edited" by Moderators in a way that various members of the community do not like, or find to be reasonable, myself included. I have more to discuss, but this is just a primer to how I feel about SH Moderation and Administration.


Edit: Many people may have seen that I have a very negative view of the way this site handles itself. This does not mean that I do not have valid concerns and opinions on things here. I may endorse some of the sillier threads and things, and belittle a lot of the Moderators, but that is only because I am sick of a lot of the decisions that I see are made on a daily basis. I am in no way here to just purely antagonize the SH Staff. I want to see change, but am consistently disappointed when it comes to discussion or lack of eagerness for the current Staff to accept new policies, ideas, or additional help from the rest of the forum community. This is why I am so outwardly hostile in a lot of situations pertaining to Moderation and Administration (Vad's cool though.)
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: IsaVulpes
Since December, Zarkingphoton had been given warnings by six different moderators (not including myself) to stop off-topic posting/trolling/spamming in various threads. He didn't, and since several people bothered to report his joke feeling that it was racist, he was tempbanned... and for only two days, so I don't really feel that I overreacted?

It broke rules either way.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Number 13 and Dime
I have no issue with him getting a tempban for continuing OT discussion
(I would have no issue with getting banned for flinging insults, either)

But if you are calling a common one line joke that is clearly not meant to be demeaning in any way "racism"
You are making severely light of actual racism
 
  • Like
Reactions: Arcana, dead and mcpeanuts
IsaVulpes said:
But if you are calling a common one line joke that is clearly not meant to be demeaning in any way "racism"
You are making severely light of actual racism

That is the thing. The actual 'intent' is irrelevant if the actual message can [and was] be largely interpreted instead as a derogatory toward x race/ethnicity/religion/whatever. One person can consider it a harmless joke while another two can consider it an insult. This is exactly why the rules (an quite honestly common sense as well) banned anything that can be interpreted as personal attacks. You don't need to bring up race, religion, whatever to discuss SG and is exactly why it's also explicitly banned in OT as well.

Part of what was said

"Ain't you hear of the 13th Ammendment? It makes it illegal to own niggas like that."

No I wouldn't call this the pinnacle of racist acts [it doesn't need to be], but I wouldn't go as far as call this a harmless "joke" either because of how sensitive the subject can be. People obviously felt insulted with this.

Yes I perfectly understand the context of the 'joke'. I also can perfectly understand the person could have still used pretty much anything else that wasn't in a political/society grey area to still deliver the same message 'intent' of the 'joke. The person [who already had a bad history] instead decided the more likely line to attract some controversy. He got off easy with a brief temp ban to cool off with this [and other past acts] and hopefully the people who felt insulted can forget about this ordeal by then.

Let us move on now. SH is not a place to censor you because we enjoy that, but it is first and foremost a place where the masses can feel comfortable discussing SG or whatever in a forum environment and you have to be highly naive to suggest that haphazardly thrown grey area comments wouldn't have the potential to piss anyone off.
 
Slavery is a "grey area"?
 
Race jokes and other controversial type jokes are a grey area in a public forum. Especially in the absence of body language or whatever visual aide to help interpret that x joke had no ill intent behind it. It largely depend on interpretation if it's either 'ha ha' or 'woah...too far." People largely felt the latter with this example. Moderation acted accordingly. Whether or not those people have "thick skin" or not is irrelevant. The point is this could have been largely avoided by making a different joke with the same message as stated before.

I really hope you don't want me to spell out some example 'jokes' of what is not OK since I would assume common sense is enough to guide someone to that answer.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dime
The people that complained about that joke obviously aren't considering the fgc's heavy AAVE dialectical influence...
 
Politically correctness policing vs freedom of speech/creative freedom

this will get ugly. that being said, i repeat my last request:

DukeMagus said:
Can you open a single exception to the rules and allow the "FUNNY IMGS/VIDS/LINKS" back? it's a classic that exists in many forums and hardly caused big problems.
 
So yeah, I'd asked @worldjem in private if he would help with the restabilizing of my Squigly thread, and all he did basically amounted to refusing me and calling me a petulant, Squigly-loving nuisance. He's letting some personal bias against me interfere with doing his job?

What gives?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fuzzy_Snugs, WarpedEcho and skull person
LockjawsSaga said:
So yeah, I'd asked @worldjem in private if he would help with the restabilizing of my Squigly thread, and all he did basically amounted to refusing me and calling me a petulant, Squigly-loving nuisance. He's letting some personal bias against me interfere with doing his job?

What gives?
Has private discussion. Publicly posts what they talked about.

Well this is off to a spectacular start.

I am pretty confident any private discussions about 'restabilizing' the Squigly thread with Worldjem would have resulted in him telling you to PM me as I'm the moderator of that section, not him. One of the major policy changes in December was that moderators avoid doing any work in forums they're not specifically assigned to. This helps to have consistent, well informed moderation in a given section instead of random mods stumbling in and messing with stuff the main mods have been dealing with.

It's my job to deal with threads in the Non-Gameplay Character forum, which you are well aware that I've been doing already. Why have you not come to me about this?

Also notice that I said "the" Squigly thread. Not "your" Squigly thread. Characters get a single general discussion thread in the NGC forum. No one user gets to claim ownership over them - they belong to the forum and everyone on it, regardless of who started the thread.
 
Last edited:
LockjawsSaga said:
So yeah, I'd asked @worldjem in private if he would help with the restabilizing of my Squigly thread, and all he did basically amounted to refusing me and calling me a petulant, Squigly-loving nuisance. He's letting some personal bias against me interfere with doing his job?

What gives?
I think he's trying to make forum environment that everyone can enjoy.
Several people from the art section saying you're making things worse and not enjoyable.
People in 'your own' haven/thread calling you cancer and telling you stop what you do.
No meaningful contribution anywhere recently.
Blaming everyone who doesn't like 'YOU' on 'Squigly'. It's not Squigly that is the problem.

Sounds like a 'nuisance' to me? :S
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Muro
Cellsai said:
Also notice that I said "the" Squigly thread. Not "your" Squigly thread. Characters get a single general discussion thread in the NGC forum. No one user gets to claim ownership over them - they belong to the forum and everyone on it, regardless of who started the thread.
I said "my Squigly thread" only so everyone would know which thread I was referring to (as in, the thread I opened), as there are a multitude of threads that could be called "the Squigly thread".
 
LockjawsSaga said:
I said "my Squigly thread" only so everyone would know which thread I was referring to (as in, the thread I opened), as there are a multitude of threads that could be called "the Squigly thread".
For those that don't frequent the Non-Gameplay Character forum, how would they have known that you started that thread? For those that do frequent the NGC forum, we would know exactly what thread you were talking about. Your description didn't narrow the possible thread choices at all.

But, thank you for addressing the clearly most important part of my reply.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Apex, Jimbob, JinKazama'94 and 1 other person
DukeMagus said:
Can you open a single exception to the rules and allow the "FUNNY IMGS/VIDS/LINKS" back? it's a classic that exists in many forums and hardly caused big problems.

The point of the new rules is to disallow this kind of low quality posting.

Sorry, but it ain't comin' back.
 
  • Like
Reactions: chickenwithtie and Apex
Can someone explain this ban to me http://skullgirls.com/forums/index....pass-the-salt-edition.6502/page-7#post-248032

"Image Flooding", when the express purpose of this thread is to post images? (btw doesn't that go against the Picdump threads rule?)
If that post counts as "Trolling/Flamebaiting", then you have to ban everyone in that thread (at least the ppl attacking dementia, see also http://skullgirls.com/forums/index....pass-the-salt-edition.6502/page-7#post-248187 )

Or was there a mess of insults and some mod edited those out? I assumed the moderator edit was just adding spoiler tags
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sparties
Yeah that banning was definitely excessive. He's a jerk, but not particularly invasive. Just tell him to pay atention next time and use spoiler option, as I did
 
this could've been avoided if that "don't allow threads for pics" rule didn't existed
 
Smart talk aside, it's an impopular rule with little-to-no conflict reduction effect. Also way too open for arbitrary judging.
 
Because it's unpopular by a vocal minority it's automatically bad?

I can't.



Mods: I think the rules are acceptable/fine. While some are a little specific, they generally keep shitposting to a minimum and keep the focus on generating meaningful content. You're all cool people and should go get yourself a burrito or something.
 
Last edited:
Seems people here are confused so gonna clarify something.

The "no threads with just pictures" rule only applies to OT currently. At least where it was specifically spelled out in the rules. Otherwise I imagine some of the SG art threads where artists can dump their SG art would have little flexibility if it was global. Not to mention you wouldn't normally make SG image dump threads in areas like the gameplay section for example to begin with. What is global [with maybe the exception of art section] are no image macros allowed because the little value in discussion they carry. Due to the nature of the RQ thread, posting screenshots of whatever that is relevant to the OP should be fine, but what isn't generally fine are image macros and a wall of images in a post without a spoiler.

I wasn't involved in that thread issue and I can't comment much on what happened, but I wanted to get that little misunderstanding out of the way unless I missed a rules update that made no" image dumping" global.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Wenzel, Sydoh, IsaVulpes and 1 other person
Is there a way to apply for Moderatorship? I would love to see the beta gameplay and bug report section a little more reasonable, and a lot of times when I report posts for derailment or off topic, nothing gets done. I understand the current team already has a lot to deal with, and I don't understand why they should bother being so understaffed. I would love to be able to look after the beta gameplay/bug section. Or at least have someone else devoted to it like @Skarmand or someone else responsible.

edit: In case I didn't say it clearly enough, I would not mind being nominated for such a position myself
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Wenzel, GrunkleBarlowe, skull person and 1 other person
WarpedEcho said:
stuff

Disclaimer: The below is just my personal answer and by no means a representation of a general answer for the SH staff as a whole.

1. Based on how past mods got added, there is no direct way the interested party can apply. At least not until a news thread like this pops up that makes it blatant. You can of course still express interest to join so we can keep your name in mind for when we do need someone and looking over candidates. Pretty sure that was how some of the past mods got added. There were other cases where mods were added in under more subtle conditions due to already proven merit. In any case, staff management is more on admin territory so logically any initiative to get more staff added/booted/whatever is up to their final say.

2. Yes being understaffed is not healthy for this site and should be resolved sooner rather then later, but the prospect of irresponsibly just letting anybody join that asks regardless of their qualifications, background, notoriety, etc where we would be leaning towards overstaffed with questionable candidates is just as unhealthy if not more so. It would solve the problem in the short-run, but cause problems for us in the long-run.

My point is when such a hypothetical recruitment process begins, it would be a fairly lengthy process [like alot of our past site decisions] depending on the quantity of interested parties based on past personal experiences because we would have to weed out applications, figure out best place for x person, what positions of the site needs more manpower, etc. if we want to do a best possible job picking the right candidate.

3. Skarmand was a mod before for like a brief period, but one thing led to another and that was the end of that. Not gonna comment more on this since I wasn't directly involved.

4. I find it ironically funny that your fairly enthusiastic about the prospect of being involved in moderation while having that witty title.

Just as a general FYI not aimed at anyone in particular: Not all submitted reports will be considered [by the appropriate mod who reads it through an educated judgement call] valid enough to warrant moderation action and thus would be rejected. Even if we approve a report and make the appropriate action, I don't believe the reporter is directly notified by the system that x report was either approved/finished or rejected.

Reports don't get ignored and stay active in the queue for an indefinite amount of time so it will be either approved/rejected whenever it happens. Sometimes reports handling does get delayed though mostly because x mod for y area isn't present atm and they usually have the initial say on how the report gets handled as a recent safeguard to prevent mods from interfering with each other.

Feel free to ask any more questions and I'll answer when I can at the best of ability.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sydoh
WarpedEcho said:
Is there a way to apply for Moderatorship? I would love to see the beta gameplay and bug report section a little more reasonable, and a lot of times when I report posts for derailment or off topic, nothing gets done. I understand the current team already has a lot to deal with, and I don't understand why they should bother being so understaffed. I would love to be able to look after the beta gameplay/bug section. Or at least have someone else devoted to it like @Skarmand or someone else responsible.

edit: In case I didn't say it clearly enough, I would not mind being nominated for such a position myself

@Skarmand was a mod, then he kind of just left suspiciously, so he was unmodded for security reasons. If he wants to be a mod again, he can let us know, and I'm sure no one would have any objections.

I agree with a lot of what 13 said.

I'm not against getting more mods, especially for Beta section since we don't actually have a dedicated mod for it, but you're not entirely the most... "keen" I guess, towards SH moderation and/or its staff (see your self-title). How do we know you won't pull a Domo and leak mod stuff?

Although it's not explicitly stated anywhere, and kind of goes without saying anyway,
1. mods are expected to keep anything mod-related confidential until we agree to release certain information, if at all, and
2. to voice concerns in the mod forum before taking any action that may go against the rules, be controversial, or otherwise be a non-standard moderation action. If there's a situation you're not entirely sure how to handle, take it up with the rest of the mods and get a second opinion, and
3. being a mod means you need to set the example for following the rules for everyone else, because if the mods don't even follow its own rules, why should anyone else?

Breaking these rules is grounds for instant un-modding as it undermines the entire point of having a mod staff (you know, to keep shit from getting out of hand, and maintain a decent level of order for the forum).

And, like @Number 13 said, if we were to look for new mods, they wouldn't be added overnight.
 
So how high am I on the "pick to be a mod" hierarchy

I'm sure I'm up there.
 
You shouldn't expect perfection from people who made Arcana a mod anyway, if Skarmand reveals to be a shitty mod too you report him to other mods, if that doesn't work just leave. This isn't a country, man.
 
No wonder I can't get cleared for a passport

Anyway, I read something about being able to talk of gameplay for not-happening characters, I wanted to know if that was true or if that's still taboo.
 
chickenwithtie said:
You shouldn't expect perfection from people who made Arcana a mod anyway, if Skarmand reveals to be a shitty mod too you report him to other mods, if that doesn't work just leave. This isn't a country, man.

Well, he's not a mod anymore, now is he? And no we're not perfect, who is?

The whole "not talking about non-playable SG characters" is because if someone has a good idea for a character and LZ decides they want to make that character in the future (if able), they don't want to have to deal with the red tape behind someone else trying to claim ownership of that idea because of stupid copyright BS (see Cee McNeil). Also, if people speculate gameplay of non-playable characters, LZ doesn't want people to get disappointed when that character isn't the way the speculation envisioned. So, yeah, probably better not to talk about gameplay for those characters (at least not on SH).

-Note: this is conjecture and I do not speak on behalf of Lab Zero.

Also, as far as I know, Skarmand actually did nothing wrong.
 
Last edited:
TechPowah said:
Anyway, I read something about being able to talk of gameplay for not-happening characters, I wanted to know if that was true or if that's still taboo.

worldjem said:
The whole "not talking about non-playable SG characters" is because if someone has a good idea for a character and LZ decides they want to make that character in the future (if able), they don't want to have to deal with the red tape behind someone else trying to claim ownership of that idea because of stupid copyright BS (see Cee McNeil). Also, if people speculate gameplay of non-playable characters, LZ doesn't want people to get disappointed when that character isn't the way the speculation envisioned. So, yeah, probably better not to talk about gameplay for those characters (at least not on SH).

Just to clarify that yup, you are allowed to speculate on gameplay of non-playable characters in the Non-Gamplay Character Discussion forum. (That is kinda confusing... maybe we should look into fixing the name of that section or something :P) Go nuts making all the Leroy movesets you want.
Worldjem is just saying to not be disappointed if the characters end up not looking like your ideas, and also don't sue LZ if they do, etc.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TechPowah and Sydoh
Lab Zero doesnt read that section. Its coincidence if your idea and theirs are alike.

Report doesnt mean we have to do something. We probably arent locking threads if conversation is still going and on topic just because creator had his fill.
 
Number 13 said:
Even if we approve a report and make the appropriate action, I don't believe the reporter is directly notified by the system that x report was either approved/finished or rejected.

I had a request handled in the past and got notified about. I'm guessing this happens on the discretion the mod handling it, but it would be nice if people got to see this verification of the report being processed more often, it makes it more evident that situations are being handled. It would also be nice is there was notifications of reports being declined, in addition to why (aka, not determined to be derailment, not harrasment but difference of opinion, not technically breaking any rules etc.)

Number 13 said:
4. I find it ironically funny that your fairly enthusiastic about the prospect of being involved in moderation while having that witty title.

worldjem said:
I'm not against getting more mods, especially for Beta section since we don't actually have a dedicated mod for it, but you're not entirely the most... "keen" I guess, towards SH moderation and/or its staff (see your self-title). How do we know you won't pull a Domo and leak mod stuff?
If you read my first post edit in this thread, you can see a more thought out reasoning for my [old] title. There a lot of things that just aren't explained or discussed with the public. I don't like that, and as such am somewhat hostile to the current situation. This does NOT mean that I DON'T want to see things happen that are good for SH community and SH transparency. If anything, I understand that some things need to be kept confidential to general public, and I would be willing to keep things that way if I was considered to be a mod. However, I would certainly be more vocal in interstaff discussion in the forums as to what should be public or not. Communication between the staff is good, there is no I in team after all. I am willing to wait : ^ )
 
Last edited:
I actually didn't do anything wrong, actually I didn't do anything.

I just left the site, don't need people that don't exist or talk anymore to also be a mod. (What if they come back to haunt you once you forget about it?)

Also I was never really a mod, I was just given mod for a different purpose than to perform moderation.
I never actually moderated anything.

Anyways that being said.
I will help out with blatant shit posting in the gameplay sections and help serious derailment in threads if you guys want more staff.
I do visit this site a lot.
Anything that gets too subjective though I'll probably leave for someone else for the first while.

LockjawsSaga said:
Yep, what a swell idea. No objections whatsoever.
Oh settle down...

The site is much larger than one thread to post pictures of Squigly.
I wouldn't touch or look at your thread or the art section, that is for Cellsai.

I use this site to discuss the game, remember?
 
  • Like
Reactions: WarpedEcho
There are alot of people i think would make good to decent mods...


If modding were being a decent or ok player.
But modding has little to do with being a good player or not, and much more to do with being less emotional when dealing with issues.

Mods need to be clear minded logical thinkers that can keep any interpersonal grudges at bay when making decisions.
They ALSO need to be less opinionated than the regular consumership and generally speaking are more powerful in an effective way when they arent particularly vocal outsode of modding duties.


The last thing any forum needs is a highly opinionated, vocal mod who practices the my way or the highway approach.


Im no ass kisser in the least, i tell people what i think and let the chips fall. I wouldnt make a good mod at all. Having said that, the moderation for skullheart (besides the ot debacle) has been literally exemplary. They give a god amount of rope and dont strangle the forum with hamfisted strongarm tactics, but they set people straight that deviate to far from the center.


They may be understaffed, but we cant just make people into mods just cause they ask imo.

The first thing that needs to be asked are questions such as:

Is this person level headed?
Are they trustworthy?
Will this person get power hungry or will they just control things behind the scenes like the current moderation staff?


I like the moderation as it is currently and would like to maintain the status quo.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Wenzel and Apex
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back