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No one can fight Painwheel

scrubbyscum999

scrubbyscum999

The dream is on hold, till I get my stick back.
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scrubbyscum999
Painwheel Cerebella
As a beginner Painwheel player I have noticed a very amusing trend. Out of all the characters, people have no idea how to approach Painwheel. A character with such bad movement shouldn't be able to fish out easy hits with no assists, but that's what happens. I play people twice as good as me who could stomp me otherwise but once PW comes they seem to have no idea of what to do. They have to start working real hard to beat me or worse, they lose. This is with a character of who I'm trying to extend the 8 hit combo I use. I'm sure at top level this isn't an issue, but I just think it is just weird for people to have problems with a character to this extent in general that play much better than me.
 
Zidiane said:
No one knows how to play the game, you mean.

That's general though, with PW it just really shows either nobody uses this character or something. It's weird how someone can kill Bella clean with no damage on them, but still lose when I can just do super basic stuff with PW. I'm a scrub, I am still learning to play the game. I would just think people much better wouldn't have problems this consistently.
 
scrubbyscum999 said:
That's general though, with PW it just really shows either nobody uses this character or something. It's weird how someone can kill Bella clean with no damage on them, but still lose when I can just do super basic stuff with PW. I'm a scrub, I am still learning to play the game. I would just think people much better wouldn't have problems this consistently.

A vast majority of the players suck at this game. So, stating that most people can't handle PW doesn't say much.
 
View619 said:
Can these types of threads go in general, please? Save the character-specific/gameplay sections for useful threads.
This please
 
DDB said:
I always thought it was the other way around.

No one can play Painwheel.

Well I'm living proof of that. I'm trying to do a combo that's more than 8 hits.
 
Yeah as a Parasoul player if I have one tough match-up I can't play, this bitch definitely comes to mind.

Also #mypainwheel
 
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Newer players don't realize they can react to Fly from a grounded normal or special. That's all.
 
cr.MP, flight cancel the second hit, j.LK > gombo

if they don't know painwheel very well, it will hit for absolutely no reason at all.
 
For me, it's the disjointed hitbox of jMP plus the ability to fly around whatever moves I do, use jHK and then go ham.
 
Broseidon Rex said:
For me, it's the disjointed hitbox of jMP plus the ability to fly around whatever moves I do, use jHK and then go ham.

You need to OS during block with (Or sometimes react with) s.LK

A lot of people don't look at light normal interrupts.
 
Krackatoa said:
You need to OS during block with (Or sometimes react with) s.LK

A lot of people don't look at light normal interrupts.
Not sure what OS means, as for the light normal interrupts, she seems to fly out of range every time I try to do that (as cerebella of all characters)
 
Broseidon Rex said:
For me, it's the disjointed hitbox of jMP plus the ability to fly around whatever moves I do, use jHK and then go ham.

With Bella? Try one of j.MP!!!!, j.HP or dash jump j.LP mash. There goes all of Painwheel's unassisted air options other than super.

keninblack said:
Yeah as a Parasoul player if I have one tough match-up I can't play, this bitch definitely comes to mind.

Also #mypainwheel
Wow really? I hate this matchup the other way around. MP tears and j.LP stop me from doing anything other than perfectly spaced j.MP. At least j.HP armour is pretty useful in this matchup.
 
Tomo009 said:
With Bella? Try one of j.MP!!!!, j.HP or dash jump j.LP mash. There goes all of Painwheel's unassisted air options other than super.
Still, all the smart Painwheel's stay just slightly out of range or hatred guard through it.
 
Broseidon Rex said:
Still, all the smart Painwheel's stay just slightly out of range or hatred guard through it.

If you're going to think like that, you may as well just bend over for PW. =/

Make her risk the Hatred Guard, which loses to grabs and slap her out of the sky with j.mp.
 
Broseidon Rex said:
Still, all the smart Painwheel's stay just slightly out of range or hatred guard through it.
For that you have j.LP mash. Armour is Painwheel's saving grace in this matchup, so don't let her think it is free. Dash up Exceleebella is also scary, Age makes me scared to even jump into the air in this matchup, if PW is in the air already jump at her with either j.LK or j.MP, j.MP will even beat Painwheel's j.MP unless hers is perfectly spaced. If you are already in the air, j.HP, this will also beat Painwheel's j.MP, especially if she is below you.

Basically, the only thing you SHOULDN'T do in this matchup is let Painwheel get full screen away from you, because then she can nails xx fly and that is how Painwheel takes control away from Bella in the matchup.

You can easily punish her pressure if she fly cancels at any point on block, so don't be afraid to let her come to you. In most matchups this would be a bad idea, but Bella just destroys a Painwheel who gets even slightly too greeedy on offense. You have Exceelebella or 5LK to catch flight cancels after a ground string, you have Dynamo to catch pretty much any bad flight cancel at all and Devil Horns is actually a pretty legitimate reversal against Painwheel, stops her from doing j.HK xx fly j.HK crossups.
 
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Broseidon Rex said:
Still, all the smart Painwheel's stay just slightly out of range or hatred guard through it.

Walk forward until she can't stay out of range.

I think you're underestimating the potency of your normals, and Dynamo as an anti-air option.
 
Thanks for all the advice, I'll try to take it in consideration and application
 
@Broseidon Rex , I find a Bella that just steps back and forces me to make the move can be very, very scary.

Diamond Dynamo, Excellabella, and solid air priority make any air approach risky. Just remember that our best air moves are also our slowest.

Pushblock our multihits. That can get pretty frustrating for a PW. Unlike Filia, we aren't able to just jump back in.

Watch your specials (use them only when they will hit). Throw out a random Diamond Dynamo, I'll just fly backwards and end up with a full combo.

Remember, we have a pretty far strike range and can confirm off of some pretty impressive random hits.

Finally, I think the one thing to remember is that PW (at least me) is more scared of you than you are of it... at least initially.
 
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Like everyone else Painwheel can easily be beaten if you get full on rushdown or zoning, the neutral game is a bit tough.

The thing I find most frustrating to counter is that air normal that charges with armor than rushes forward a bit with armor (j.mp or j.hp? Haven't picked up pw in a while so I can't remember which is which). I find it really hard to punish by anything than just doing a super on reaction. Haven't tried doing air throws on it though.
 
Tomo009 said:
Wow really? I hate this matchup the other way around. MP tears and j.LP stop me from doing anything other than perfectly spaced j.MP. At least j.HP armour is pretty useful in this matchup.

Haha sorry it was sarcasm, Parasoul eats up Pwheel's meat for free. Munch.

The matchup is really tough for the poor spinning bae :(
 
Broseidon Rex said:
For me, it's the disjointed hitbox of jMP plus the ability to fly around whatever moves I do, use jHK and then go ham.
Dont ever use j.hk against painwheel, its a terrible move in the matchup because it has little air to air ability against people moving backwards and painwheel can easily ground or air armor through it.


If the painwheels are getting very far away from you, then the matchup does get bad for bella. Hug her like your life depends on it, because it does.

That said, bella has many caveats over painwheel:


Priority
Double jump
Easy anti airs
Easy answers for air and ground armor if the bella sniffs them out (excelebella/super her out of air armor, showstopper her out of ground armor) showstopper will also kill painwheels ground super so anytime painwheel gets even kinda frisky with the offense, you have REALLY good reversals to use against her, one of which converts to full combo and thusly a reset, and the other not so great dividends but basically beats everything.

The primary thing you need to do though is not give her space. That is the biggest thing by far. Yolo her down. Realize that painwheels primary advantages in the matchup all come from space.

J.mp needs space to beat bellas normals, stinger cancels need space to not get punished in startup.

However, not all is lost if you lose your spacing which is of course bound to happen. You still have the ability to empty jump toward painwheel, land, armor run and cancel that into DD. Of course you dont have to cancel into DD. But it is a good option to have on the table so that the predictable painwheel cant just see you wiff a jumpin and pressure you for free...


Make sure that if you wiff a jumpin against pesky flying turtle wheels, that you let her know via DD or excelebella that you know the score and that she is playing for the wiff (its all shes really got that is "safe" against an aggressive bella)


I guess i can annotate your match against icky if you want... There were some key spacing issues that i thought i saw you had in there that werent doing you any good.


And last but not least, pls pls pls make sure that you abuse the shit out cr.lk>MGR... It is an incredible tick and against painwheel specifically can make her SUPER PREDICTABLE since she cant super through the tick... She has to fly or jump which makes the OCCASIONAL excelebella tick extremely easy to make.

If she jumps and immediately air supers out of the tick... Thats just an issue of you being read. It doesnt mean to stop the tick throws.. Just measn to slow them down and go for baits more often... Which is what any reversal generally signals.

:)
 
Dime_x said:
Dont ever use j.hk against painwheel, its a terrible move in the matchup because it has little air to air ability against people moving backwards and painwheel can easily ground or air armor through it.
I was talking about Painwheel's jHK (the sparky move right?
Dime_x said:
If the painwheels are getting very far away from you, then the matchup does get bad for bella. Hug her like your life depends on it, because it does.
That said, bella has many caveats over painwheel:
Priority
Double jump
Easy anti airs
Easy answers for air and ground armor if the bella sniffs them out (excelebella/super her out of air armor, showstopper her out of ground armor) showstopper will also kill painwheels ground super so anytime painwheel gets even kinda frisky with the offense, you have REALLY good reversals to use against her, one of which converts to full combo and thusly a reset, and the other not so great dividends but basically beats everything.
The primary thing you need to do though is not give her space. That is the biggest thing by far. Yolo her down. Realize that painwheels primary advantages in the matchup all come from space.
J.mp needs space to beat bellas normals, stinger cancels need space to not get punished in startup.
You and the others suggested not letting painwheel breath at all and keeping them locked down. I only had one opportunity to play against one lag-free painwheel last night and you all were right. Thank you, @Tomo009 @Krackatoa @Spencer
Dime_x said:
However, not all is lost if you lose your spacing which is of course bound to happen. You still have the ability to empty jump toward painwheel, land, armor run and cancel that into DD. Of course you dont have to cancel into DD. But it is a good option to have on the table so that the predictable painwheel cant just see you wiff a jumpin and pressure you for free...
Must remember to empty jump more sporadically/unpredictably
Dime_x said:
Make sure that if you wiff a jumpin against pesky flying turtle wheels, that you let her know via DD or excelebella that you know the score and that she is playing for the wiff (its all shes really got that is "safe" against an aggressive bella)
Dime_x said:
I guess i can annotate your match against icky if you want... There were some key spacing issues that i thought i saw you had in there that werent doing you any good.
I would appreciate it. I may get really defensive if I already noted stuff people keep bringing up, but I'll keep that under control in response.
Dime_x said:
And last but not least, pls pls pls make sure that you abuse the shit out cr.lk>MGR... It is an incredible tick and against painwheel specifically can make her SUPER PREDICTABLE since she cant super through the tick... She has to fly or jump which makes the OCCASIONAL excelebella tick extremely easy to make.
If she jumps and immediately air supers out of the tick... Thats just an issue of you being read. It doesnt mean to stop the tick throws.. Just measn to slow them down and go for baits more often... Which is what any reversal generally signals.
:)
Will be more conscious of all of this.

In addition to all these great points, I have also noticed when alot of painwheels commit fully to the jMP from high altitudes, Kancho/Feint connects fairly often.
 
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@Broseidon Rex

You can add me if you'd like. I run solo PW.

We've played each other before if memory serves.

I'm currently going through the mother of all internet problems though, so I can't promise I'll be able to do much of anything until I fix my ping spikes.

Edited to add:

Keep in mind that PW is strongest above you. Her j.mp goes down when she uses it making it half worthless for hitting people above you, and her j.hk goes straight down and has a nice hurtbox sticking out of the top of it.

Your double jump lets you get higher than her as flight has a capped height which means you really only have to worry about j.hk which is slow as shit and you'll see the charge coming if she wants the armor.
 
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