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Noob about to quit SG for good. (how long till "git gud"?)

HodgyHype

HodgyHype

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HodgyHype
Parasoul Filia Fukua
inb4 this gets deleted.

First off, let me just say that this game is very intimidating to get into if you are fairly new. Sure that could apply to almost any fighting game, but this one in particular, due to it being reset and combo heavy. The online pro to newbie ratio is just terrible for this game. Maybe for every 15 pro players you face online, you'll find 1 newbie. Maybe. I really don't know how dead or alive this game is, but I do know that majority (maybe 80-90%) of the guys online are just completely expert level. And before you say anything about "spend x hours in the training room" or "look at the beginner guides" (if this forum is even alive) I can say that I've done that and I'm still bad. Not as bad as when first started of course, but still bad. And I've got about 30 or so hours playing this game.

I know I can't get good overnight, but is this really what I have what I to deal with? Getting mauled online nearly every time? At least with games like Street Fighter or Tekken you can find player more your skill level, but apparently not with this game. I've got one friend who's at my skill level (possibly better) and that's about it. This is the kind of thing that turns people off this game. I follow possibly the only two streamers that stream this game on a daily basis and they do little to help. How about some advice? But wait, who would they give advice to, everyone's good at this game! How about you play some games with the new guys or give lessons to newbies, they're trying to keep this game alive right? But that might just be me nitpicking or whatever.

But hey, about that Skullgirls "newbie" night huh? Yep I entered newbie night 11 yesterday, and I can say with complete honesty that a pro player won the whole thing. I thought it for newer players, or am I not understanding that concept right? I guess noobs know how to do tricky reset and pull of 60+ hit combos right? I felt angry and disrespected at the same time. And of course the commentators did nothing to help the whole time. Didn't even give advice. How about next time the organizer changes the name to "intermediate" or possible "expert" night huh? Just like in the SG lobbies, having a title of "causal matches-beginner" does nothing to ward off non beginners. Ridiculous. What are you going to say now, the SG community doesn't need "a whiny brat" like me? All I'm doing is trying to make an effort to learn this game, but where have the new players gone? All that's left is people who destroy me online. Look, I like this game a lot, but I don't know man. It just might not be beginner friendly.
 
You get "Git Gud" treatment when you are making stupid excuses. Which you are not.

The only thing I can recommend is going to matchmaking thread and look for someone your level. Or a pro willing to play a team he doesn't know/hold back.
 
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HodgyHype said:
But hey, about that Skullgirls "newbie" night huh? Yep I entered newbie night 11 yesterday, and I can say with complete honesty that a pro player won the whole thing. I thought it for newer players, or am I not understanding that concept right? I guess noobs know how to do tricky reset and pull of 60+ hit combos right? I felt angry and disrespected at the same time. And of course the commentators did nothing to help the whole time. Didn't even give advice. How about next time the organizer changes the name to "intermediate" or possible "expert" night huh? Just like in the SG lobbies, having a title of "causal matches-beginner" does nothing to ward off non beginners. Ridiculous. What are you going to say now, the SG community doesn't need "a whiny brat" like me? All I'm doing is trying to make an effort to learn this game, but where have the new players gone? All that's left is people who destroy me online. Look, I like this game a lot, but I don't know man. It just might not be beginner friendly.
I totally get where you're coming from. It's pretty well known that despite SG's fundamental mechanics being pretty simple it's a pretty intimidating game. However, dealing specifically with this point of your post... how do we separate 'newbies' from 'pros'?

I mean, all it takes for a new player to wreck shop against another new player is to learn one long combo. If one person is dealing 40 hits of damage for every 5 hits the opponent deals it's going to get lopsided very fast. If all it takes to give one player a clear and distinct advantage is memorizing a bunch of buttons in a set order then it gets very hard to define skill level tiers.

EDIT: I do wonder how a system would work of having a beginners room in SG that you can only enter if you have played less than 100 games or something.

Probably not very well. There's a half dozen reasons wrong with that I came up with while typing it.

And why are people always afraid of threads voicing genuine and interesting opinions getting locked? If a post is something like "Why is this game dead? Lol shit game." of course it's going to get deleted. If a post is a legitimate explanation or question as to why the game is not popular and presented in a well reasoned way it'll be ripe for discourse, as the above is.
 
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What do you consider a newbie and a pro player?
It would help to know what you're talking about when you say that since it seems like your definition of a pro player is anyone that knows a 10 hit combo and a reset.

The only advice I can give you is to keep playing these "pro" players, understand how they're beating you and learn from it.
Instead of seeing losing as an inevitability whenever there's a skill gap, see it as an opportunity to learn from someone with more experience than you.
 
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HodgyHype said:
"look at the beginner guides" (if this forum is even alive)
It is, yes. You'll get help in this thread, in the beginner forum and in Skullheart as a whole. Probably less of if than you could though if instead of checking trivial stuff like that up, you'll assume the worst and express it in a passive aggressive manner with a bold font for emphasis. This isn't customer service, no one enjoys nor is paid to deal with that.
 
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Duckator said:
What do you consider a newbie and a pro player?
It would help to know what you're talking about when you say that since it seems like your definition of a pro player is anyone that knows a 10 hit combo and a reset.

The only advice I can give you is to keep playing these "pro" players, understand how they're beating you and learn from it.
Instead of seeing losing as an inevitability whenever there's a skill gap, see it as an opportunity to learn from someone with more experience than you.

C'mon now, let's get serious here. The key to winning in this game is mixups/resets (and keeping you opponent in block stun with assists). The long 100+ hit combos aren't necessary (I've had that done on me, no resets 100 connecting combos). High level players will do this efficiently and effortlessly. This is something new players will have a hard guarding against and trying to do themselves.

I was playing against this person against who was even newer that me, had about 3 or 4 hours playing time with the game and I was completely destroying said player. I mean at least I know some combos, while it seemed like this player didn't know anything at all. It got the point where I was winning so bad, they stopped playing middle match. Like completely dropped their input device. THEY QUIT BECAUSE THEY'VE HAD ENOUGH TORMENT. This is what I feel like doing sometimes. Now obviously you should go into a match with a strong mindset and take everything as a learning experience, but with the level of skill difference, it's hard.

So it seems like you guys are basically telling me to "git gud" in your own words. It takes a while to learn and understand a fighting I know that, but what I'm trying to say that there's something about this game that makes it easy for people to want to quit on it.
 
HodgyHype said:
So it seems like you guys are basically telling me to "git gud" in your own words. It takes a while to learn and understand a fighting I know that, but what I'm trying to say that there's something about this game that makes it easy for people to want to quit on it.
But that inherently is the problem we're trying to get across. When it comes to Skullgirls getting good and finding players of your own skill level is all you can do. Yes, I know that is entirely useless advice, but that's all we can say. The resets and combos are inherently important to Skullgirls' gameplay. If one player knows even one example of half that equestion they're going to be at a huge advantage against someone who doesn't.

HodgyHype said:
I was playing against this person against who was even newer that me, had about 3 or 4 hours playing time with the game and I was completely destroying said player. I mean at least I know some combos, while it seemed like this player didn't know anything at all. It got the point where I was winning so bad, they stopped playing middle match. Like completely dropped their input device. THEY QUIT BECAUSE THEY'VE HAD ENOUGH TORMENT. This is what I feel like doing sometimes. Now obviously you should go into a match with a strong mindset and take everything as a learning experience, but with the level of skill difference, it's hard.

And this here. You say that online is a meat grinder for new players, yet you go on to say you have done the exact thing you're complaining about. You can't complain about a game being too unfair on new players while telling us about how you mauled a new player so bad he dropped his controller.
Where can we go from a position like that?
 
HodgyHype said:
C'mon now, let's get serious here. The key to winning in this game is mixups/resets (and keeping you opponent in block stun with assists).

This is what I feel like doing sometimes. Now obviously you should go into a match with a strong mindset and take everything as a learning experience, but with the level of skill difference, it's hard.

So it seems like you guys are basically telling me to "git gud" in your own words. It takes a while to learn and understand a fighting I know that, but what I'm trying to say that there's something about this game that makes it easy for people to want to quit on it.

The key to winning is understanding how you can hit them to get those mixups/resets in the first place.

Taking a break when you feel like that would be good. You don't have to be grinding out long sets every time.

You're not giving us that much to go on. Any general advice will sound like "git gud" to you.
If you really don't enjoy the game then you should probably quit since you're not getting anything out of it.
 
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People are giving you good advice. If you'll dismiss it as "git gud" and ignore it, I'm not sure what exactly your expectations from this thread were.
HodgyHype said:
THEY QUIT BECAUSE THEY'VE HAD ENOUGH TORMENT.
As someone for whom Skullgirls was the first serious fighter, I find this overdramatization unnecessary.

My own advice would be playing to learn instead of playing to win. A loss is wasted if you take nothing from it, yet it becomes a valuable learning experience if you approach it as such instead. Observe your opponents, notice what they're doing right, try to mimic it yourself. Main point to keep an eye out is how to get in and how to avoid your opponent to get in. What happens after that is a combo - anyone can learn one if he wants, but it will do him no good if he's unable to start it. Neutral game is key.

No reasonable man expects to start a new sport and win against experienced players from the get go, competitive video games aren't any different. If you would win against them from the beginning, it would mean it's a game of chance rather than a game of skill and while it would be more rewarding for people who just picked it up, there would be little incentive to keep playing and improving once you get the hang of things.
 
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I know this is going to come off as bragging but fuck it

Skullgirls was my first fighting game when it came out on Steam. Since then I put in maybe 400 hours and I would say I'm decent. Back then Skullheart was dead for a few weeks and there was almost 0 resources besides random combo videos for Vanilla or some shit.

Anyone can get good at fighting games, even if you're missing both of your arms and have to play with your mouth. The only thing stopping you is yourself.

I'm sure there are many people who started taking FGs seriously or have SG as their first game.


You only have 30 hours in the game and you're expecting people to hand you help on a silver platter. No shit you're not good, you barely have any time on the game.
 
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HodgyHype said:
It got the point where I was winning so bad, they stopped playing middle match. Like completely dropped their input device. THEY QUIT BECAUSE THEY'VE HAD ENOUGH TORMENT. This is what I feel like doing sometimes. Now obviously you should go into a match with a strong mindset and take everything as a learning experience, but with the level of skill difference, it's hard.

So it seems like you guys are basically telling me to "git gud" in your own words. It takes a while to learn and understand a fighting I know that, but what I'm trying to say that there's something about this game that makes it easy for people to want to quit on it.
Welcome to fighting games, people get mad.

You're making up a bajillion excuses for why you're not good. Why not try again except by making a thread asking for help instead of complaining.
 
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Hey, don't really know what there is to complain about.

I started playing this game about two months ago now and, yeah I'm still shit, but I have never really felt intimidated to threatened by the game, the online scene, or Noobie Night.
(In fact, here is a link to the first game I ever played against in DD's tourney and my first online ranked match)

What you have to remember is:
1. If this is your FIRST fighting game, you're going up against people that have been playing this game since 2013 OR people that have been playing fighting games for years longer than you. Don't expect to be on their level and don't gauge how good or how much you're improving based off fight with them.

2. Practice makes perfect. If you allow yourself to believe you're bad and refuse to put in work or time to fix that, you will be bad; that's just fact. I can't really speak for everyone here, but I know that I put in a lot of fucking working not just streaming Skullgirls, but also playing it in Training Mode and I constantly bother Veritas, 6Let, and even fucking b0nk for help with this game. I lose sleep over this shit.
​
You need to find people to help you improve if you're serious about getting better. It won't just happen.

As far as Noobie Night goes, its a competitive tournament. Just because the word "Noobie" is in there, doesn't mean that people aren't going to try hard. The pro that won the game isn't a real pro: they didn't win Evo and, to my knowledge, isn't even big at Majors; you got outclassed by someone who understood the game better than you. Just accept it and move on.

Yo, but for real tho, I feel your pain because I commentated last night and I saw some real FUCKUAs out there.
Shit had me mad tho.

EDIT:
And honestly, if you even checked Reddit or Skullheart before you played online, you would have understood that its really not a good idea to play Quick Match before you "get gud" (for lack of a better word there)

Yo, Duckator still plays this game? WTF.
 
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I should probably also apologize for the lack of advice given at Noobie Night since I was one of the commentators.

Usually, there is tons of advice and such given, but when the night moves on and people get tired, TKO's start happening and commentating usually stops being as critical and more of just a contest to see who can make the best fart sound.

Or lewds. There were lots and lots of lewds in Loser's Bracket.
 
Hey man, I'm not that great at Skullgirls myself. But if anything, I let defeat motivate me to get better at the game and learn combos. Hell, sometimes I even use my defeats to teach me (like my opponent's combos) more stuff. Although, I should probably spend more time practicing combos than I do now.
 
OP, can you cool off and reply with a cooler head. You are acting like you're getting prosecuted from line 1. If you want to vent, vent but no reply has been "git gud". Where are your posts asking specific advice?

Fighting games require a mindset of being able to lose thousands of times and not get discouraged, it should motivate you improve. You have to be able to pick up what you need to fix and work at it. Stop looking at matches to win or lose, look at them as sparring/training. You are not at point where you should care about that.

These better players started bad too, they just kept playing because you get better with time put in. People put in hundreds of hours and still lose most of the time and keep playing because working to improve is fun.

Does this appeal to you?

To begin, find and practice a long, damaging combo. If you drop it in matches, bam, you got a reset. After that its figuring out defense and safe assist calls and punishing bad ones.
 
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Opening a topic where you talk about how you have problems to enjoy the game and not only get multiple valid answers, but also help from a two-times world champion as well as other great players should tell you that it doesn’t matter if the community is made up of people you classify as “pro-players” only, if they all are completely willingly to help you.

From what I read out of his, you’re fighting through quick match expecting to be matched up against players at your level. That’s fine with Street Fighter and Tekken because those games do a good job of keeping track of your level, Skullgirls does not. At least not in the ways you’re used to. Open up a lobby, label it in your level and wait. There are enough people online at any level. And if a “pro” feels like noob-hunting, kick him.

I know how you feel, I really do, no hollow words. When I played Skullgirls before the crowdfunding-campaign I was so mad at this game. I had similar arguments like you: “Long combos are bullshit!”, “I should just drop the controller because that’s how these people want to play anyway” etc.

But after the campaign and after I joined this forum, I started to lighten up. I’m still really bad at this game but I try to learn and enjoy the little victories, like blocking a mix-up after I lost 4 games in a row through it. I still lost game number 5 and so on, but at least I got something out of it.
And just playing casually with some dudes from the forum that you know really helps just having fun and ignoring competition for a while.

I still have problems since I’m a very sore loser and I hate seeing all those people being better then me, but then I think how everyone started there. The ones who are now top-tier only had the guts to change their situation. And my tears are their reward.
 
Play Smart. view everything that you are doing. What moves are you doing, how are they affecting you and your opponent. Look at your positioning, look at your opponent's position. where are they most commonly. Are there patterns to the resets? are you dropping combos? are they dropping combos? what do you think you could do to get out of a reset? are there ways to counter or at least neutralize your opponent's moves? DO they mash? DO you mash? All of these questions should be asked and hopefully if you were paying attention you can answer most of those questions within 1 or 2 matches.

The more you play smart the better you can play and the easier it would be to face a new opponent and read what they are doing.

EDIT: You might still lose even if you are playing smart, but hey it won't be a slaughter.
 
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mcpeanuts said:
OP if I ever met you IRL I would give you a big hug and tell you everything is going to be okay

Will you hug me too next Evo? Will you tell me everything is going to be okay? OH PLEASE PEANUTS TELL ME IT'S GOING TO! /Kappa
 
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Play in an arcade in the '90s - early '00s where being mall champ is a reasonable proposition. Then some guy is like the guy across town could whip you and you are like no way man, I'mthebest. And then not ever play that guy.

Instead of playing online in 2014 when it's a pretty good chance you will play the EVO champ within a week or two of starting and having to lose for hundreds of hours is a guarantee.
 
Play in an arcade in the '90s - early '00s where being mall champ is a reasonable proposition. Then some guy is like the guy across town could whip you and you are like no way man, I'mthebest.

 
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HodgyHype said:
All I'm doing is trying to make an effort to learn this game, but where have the new players gone?

If you can't find people online who are around your skill level, try introducing some friends to the game. It's always going to be more fun learning when you're playing someone around your skill level.
 
HodgyHype said:
I know I can't get good overnight, but is this really what I have what I to deal with? Getting mauled online nearly every time? At least with games like Street Fighter or Tekken you can find player more your skill level, but apparently not with this game. I've got one friend who's at my skill level (possibly better) and that's about it. This is the kind of thing that turns people off this game. I follow possibly the only two streamers that stream this game on a daily basis and they do little to help. How about some advice? But wait, who would they give advice to, everyone's good at this game! How about you play some games with the new guys or give lessons to newbies, they're trying to keep this game alive right? But that might just be me nitpicking or whatever.

Am I one of these guys by any chance? I usually do my best to help but I can never get to everyone.

Edit: Give me the characters you play. I can probably help you beat some of these super spooky pros online
 
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Rule #1 of all competitive games anythings: If you don't like losing, seek out players on your own skill level and stick with em.

Hell, maybe you'll become friends or get your own little club going. You can all progress together. More fun than getting beaten up or told to git good on a forum, at any rate.

You don't even need to touch ranked or quick matches or regular lobby's or forum events or anything really if you just enjoy competing/casuals with friends. Take it from someone who's played 800+ hours of mvc2 with friends but never touched ranked or lobbies in that game.

(yes, I'm terrible at one of my favorite games ever)
 
Some steps.
1. Learn a simple ground combo.
2. Link that to a simple air combo.
3. Look up a restand combo with your character.
4. Link air combo to ground combo with restand.

That's what I've been doing with various characters. It helps me feel like I'm moving forward skill-wise as restands are very satisfying to pull off and it helps me understand how the characters play. I still lose a lot in quick play, but I win a fair amount too.

You can also practice your combos on moving, but stupid targets in Arcade Mode.

Training Mode (Learn) -> Arcade (Practice) -> Online (Use)

We've all been where you are at some point or another, in this game or another. A few months ago I actually was posting with the same complaints as you. Fighting games are tough on new players, and a small indie one is going to be even tougher. But they're rewarding. That's why we stick with them.
 
Though I've been playing fighting games since I was a kid, I have never been good at them. Still new at Skullgirls and I can also relate. The main rule of competitive games is constancy. My experience, with a total different game: DotA. I got to the game thanks to some friends who asked me if I had Warcraft 3 and wanted to Multiplayer with me through Garena, and they put the map. I didn't know anything about the game, neither them, so we never had a teacher. At that time, my english was pretty bad, so I couldn't look for guides, and the guides in spanish were really stupid. I tried to play, but quit the game every month until I finally decided to quit. It wasn't until someone gifted me a beta key of Dota 2 and then another friend of mine wanted to teach me how to play. I did bot practicing and coop games for months until I decided to go against other players. It was hard at the beginning, but eventually I got a kick of it and now I'm the best Templar Assassin from my big circle of friends and doto partners

Of course, it took me years to get into it because I was really frustrated, but with Skullgirls, right now, I'm going after medium difficulty. I'm not ready to play against players, but if I do, I rather to do so with news instead of pro players, although you can learn stuff about the pro players. And, since Dota 2 got broken with this last update, I might aswell replace it with Skullgirls (also tired of teamplay)

If you can't do it by yourself, then find help. I have been through exactly the same
 
Hodgy, didn't I fight you a few nights ago? You really didn't come off as someone who was a straight up noob, to be honest. I really don't remember the win-loss record, but I'm pretty sure I had fun fighting against you. SG is the first fighting game I got into myself and I got into it relatively late too, I think a year after it came out, but since then I've made a lot of process. And the only way I got there was through practice, practice, practice. I play against my husband, who's got years of fighting game experience on me, I get slaughtered online and I train for an hour or two in the training room. I look up combos, take notes one them, try them out myself, I pay attention to any matches that I end up spectating. I get fortunate enough to go up against guys who don't mind playing weaker for my benefit and I thank them for that because it makes me want to get better so they DON'T have to drop their skill for me.
A cool thing to try is, if you're losing against a particular character, go through their tutorial. I did this with Squigly because I'd like to add her to my team, but since I've practiced with her, I can read her moves a lot better when fighting against her. I know what it means when she uses Leviathan as a jump rope and can prepare for it.
There are times when I get slaughtered online and think "Fukua this!" but then I think "These guys have years of experience ALONE on me, let alone how many hours they have on SG, of course I'm going to get slaughtered, but if they can get good, so can I."
You're gonna lose a lot. Learn from each loss so it's a not waste.
 
My first fighting game was UMVC (which i picked up purely for Vergil). The first time I went online I fought one guy who beat the snot out of me. I got competitive as I do and went again and again til i had fought and lost 20 times. Afterward he messaged me saying he was impressed how determined I was and wanted to know if I was interested in being trained on how to play. He got my feet in the door for the genre and thats how I learned fighting games (wherever you are dude hope your doing well). Skullgirls like other fighters is just figuring out the spin on the mechanics and then running with it. Off that experience I would just reiterate what others are saying. Take defeat as a lesson not a insult and see if you can get someone to train you. (Hell I would be willing to give it a shot if schedule's permit)
 
Stay out of quickmatch, just be patient and create the "casual matches-beginner" lobbies. I know you already said that creating a beginner lobby does nothing to ward off non-beginners, but that's a good thing. 9 out of 10 times someone who is a non-beginner but joins your lobby is most likely doing it to help you get better, even if it means beating your ass for 30 minutes straight. However, you'll also find that A LOT of other beginners will make their way out of the woodwork to play with you. If you find anybody that you think is equally skilled, send them a friend request.

tl;dr - we all started somewhere, just be patient and continue grinding.
 
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Wow... I really wasn't expecting this amount hostility toward me.

Look, let me just start out by I sincerely apologize if this came off as me complaining or making excuses for myself. This is obviously more of a rant than anything else. In retrospect, I really didn't know what to expect or what I wanted to hear when making this thread. Skullgirls is not my first fighting game, I know what it takes to be good. Hard work, dedication and all that good stuff (basically what almost everyone in here has repeated). To be honest, this was going to be a suggestion how to attract/keep new players, but it turned into what you see now. No I'm not mad or salty about being bad. Sure I could have made a thread asking someone to help me get better. But i guess what I'm trying to say is, you turn off more people of the game than you realize due to bad matchmaking and some (not all) of these pro players "trolling" (you'd call it a learning experience and helping to get better) beginners. Might be the wrong thread but sorry it's already here.


I guess at the end of the day, I just gotta "hold dat".

P.S. Throwing this pic in for no good reason :P
xvwuf.png
 
dekillsage said:
Am I one of these guys by any chance? I usually do my best to help but I can never get to everyone.

Edit: Give me the characters you play. I can probably help you beat some of these super spooky pros online

No, I follow these fellows by the names of "FunkyHellBoy" and "laundreehamper". I'd gladly follow you if you're all about helping people learn SG. I look at top FGC streamers like PR_Balrog and Justin Wong, and they are always giving advice, always FT5ing with fans, and are always about the community. (I'm not saying you aren't of course.)

I use Val and Fil only. I might venture out and try other characters soon.

P.S. Other comment has to be approved? LOL
 
HodgyHype said:
Wow... I really wasn't expecting this amount hostility toward me.

Haven't read every post here (skimmed most of the longer ones), but most of the reponses I've seen seem pretty reasonable and understanding?
 
Take advantage of Dekillsage's time while he's offering it. He's really good at the game, plus he's been really helpful with teaching both new and experienced players. There are also a number of other experienced players who would be happy to help you improve and learn, all you have to do is genuinely want their help.

I kind of skimmed through this thread since it's quickly turning into a collection of short novels, so hopefully I'm not repeating the same advice to you; Try recording and sharing your gameplay footage if possible. Some people like to post their own training diaries, detailing things that they are working on and sharing footage of some of their matches. If you ask for help and advice, there are a number of people who will gladly respond as long as they have something to comment on :)
 
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If you have questions about bella, let me know.
Also stay off quick match. It's not a good tool for finding equally skilled players. Visit the beginner thread, find some steam tags there, friend them, and open some private beginner lobbies.

And if you are reading hostility, its a twitch reaction from the amount of times we've seen people making unreasonable complaints (does not apply to you)
 
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