Question of the Week #4: How do you reset?

[Zidiane]

So I just sorta stopped after two questions. Sorry. Maybe I won't give these a "they'll come out every week" deadline so I won't forget and then avoid thinking about it like an overdue library book. I also should probably spend time coming up with future questions so I don't feel the need to at that very moment come up with a question and then avoid making one cause I can't think of a question.

Anyway, how do you reset? I'm not talking general "do you go high or do you go low", I mean, like... keep reading I'll get to it.

1) First reset: What do you do first? You know, that reset you have to test the waters? To see whether or not they're smart? Maybe it's always this one cause you like it, or it's the only one you got.

2) 50/50: If you get to that point in the match where they have beaten your first reset, you are forced to either keep doing it and failing, or try and switch to a 50/50 (or a secondary reset that you'll just keep doing until they beat that one too). What is it usually? Is it a grab/burst, or a low/grab, or a air grab/attack, or what? What's your go-to option for 50/50's? Do you switch them up depending on your opponent's character?

3) Setup reset: Sometimes you get to a point in a match where you don't want to risk a reset. What if they block, or reversal, or what have you? These are resets that their main purpose is to keep you safe with a chance to reset or to catch mashing (these are usually hard knockdown burst baits or safe jumps, but there could be others, and they may be character specific)

4) Desperation Reset: While players try not to ever get desperate in a match, sometimes it happens. You're at the point where the tension is high and your brain is in panic survival mode, and you just do before thinking. This can dangerously lead to mashed reversals if you aren't well prepared mentally, but it can also lead to "mashed resets" if you will, something I don't hear mentioned very often (though I admittedly can't listen to everyone everywhere all the time). Mashed resets are ones your opponent may have shown themselves capable of beating every time, but you do it anyway. Do you have one, if you've noticed? They aren't as easy to spot as mashed reversals.

5) Stupid reset that works cause they're smart: Have any of these? Resets that are just so simple and straight forward and obvious that they work only because the opponent was smart and assumed you'd do something tricky? And you know this is the case cause when you play bad players they never fall for it? Aren't those lovely?

Didn't mention "sly or tricky resets" cause this is less about what the reset is specifically, and more about you as a player and how you handle situations and opponents. That's all for this "Week, Question of the". I'll try to not be the bum that I am and keep making these. The next one will probably be in a different format, I'm tired of numbered lists.

 

[Jason]

All of your resets should be a 50/50 or better.

If they're not, you're just relying on gimmicks that people will eventually catch on to. It leads to that quick-match mentality that you just throw something at your opponent and hope they don't know how to deal with it or haven't seen it before.

 

[Zidiane]

All of your resets should be a 50/50 or better.

If they're not, you're just relying on gimmicks that people will eventually catch on to.

Not necessarily. There are some safe jump-type resets where the reset is really only one thing (like a high), but they completely shut down reversal options. I'll do a question on conditioning your opponent later, though, this one's about resets. Oh, and there are also resets that are only one thing, but you can stack them with other resets, like using a one-dimensional burst bait followed by a 50/50 if they don't burst.

I wanted to bring up a discussion about how people apply the resets they have. Are people experimenting with anything? Not "are people coming up with resets", but "are people being creative with and mindful of their reset application"? Do people think about the significance of going for a high/low over a low/grab or a burst/grab? What are their reasons for each one? That kind of thing.

 

[Mike_Z]

None of this is anywhere near as important as "Do you know why being random with when you reset is important? Have you learned that you don't do a full-undizzy combo with a 'reset point' and then reset at that point yet, or are you still a member of the Skullgirls community?" :^P

 

[Dime]

I reset whenever the fuck i want to. I have reset points and also reset at random. I reset pre stage3 and i reset at full undizzy. I have burst baits, high/lows, crossups, assist traps in the corner to catch assist mashes for happy birthdays and untechable knockdown mixups, i tailor my resets for the matchup AND the player im playing against, everyone i play against does the same thing.



We are members of the skullgirls community.

Fuck yo block


And lol at not having reset points.
And QFT at Jason's post.

 

[PandaGirlBingo]

I go for the max damage combo , then mix them up on wakeup. Resets have a chance of being escaped , so why risk it. I will take the damage every time.

 

[Zidiane]

None of this is anywhere near as important as "Do you know why being random with when you reset is important? Have you learned that you don't do a full-undizzy combo with a 'reset point' and then reset at that point yet, or are you still a member of the Skullgirls community?" :^P

That's an important point. The most important part to your reset should be making it hit. If you give your opponent a 50/50, there's a 50% chance he'll succeed. If you do a reset at predetermined points, it allows your opponent to be mentally prepared for one of the two options you've shown him. If you have random reset points, it becomes much harder for your opponent to prepare against the options that would allow him to escape. Not only that, but having random resets will make them wary at every moment, being unable to mentally rest even a little bit when you're hitting them.

There's also of course the more meter for you and less for your opponent thing for several small combos vs one big combo. For example, I can get a 10k combo with bella for two meters that I gain about .9 meter (meaning I got -1.10 bars, since I used two bars) and my opponent gains over one bar, or I could get a 3k, 3k, 4k meterless reset string back to back with odd and unusual resets for nearly a bar and a half while my opponent gets less than half a bar. In that example, I'd get essentially 3.6 more bars by resetting than going for the big combo, while my opponent gets .6 bars less. By doing this you're essentially getting free damage, whereas with the bigger combo you're just making more work for yourself meter wise, execution wise, and undizzy wise (at the end of the reset string, I still have plenty of undizzy left). And if your opponent blocks a reset, then they walk away with next to no meter gain, so you essentially got the first combo or two for free (and they still give large chunks of meter to you).

Resetting randomly is definitely an important tool that not enough players truly use. It shouldn't be done every time, obviously, if you can kill you should probably kill, but it of course is effective.

I reset whenever the fuck i want to.

So just not going to really participate in the conversation at all while writing as much as you can, huh?

 

[dekillsage]

All of your resets should be a 50/50 or better.

If they're not, you're just relying on gimmicks that people will eventually catch on to. It leads to that quick-match mentality that you just throw something at your opponent and hope they don't know how to deal with it or haven't seen it before.

rip 95% of my resets

 

[Camail]

1. I do a reset for val that uses a falling j.mp, j.hp that would normally hit fully, but I airdash right before the j.hp hits and get a cross up. I like using this first because it's really fluid and surprising to most people because it goes through most of the j.hp animation before I do the cross up. If they block it then I know they are aware of val stuff so I can do resets that prey on that, and if the upback then I know that which is great.

2. I still rely a bit too much on low/throw, but it is a solid 50/50 so what can I say. I have a few tricks up my sleeve, though.

3. Eh, a delayed low/throw set up is all I have here, but it does the job.

4. I always try to do a really high cross under with val's j.lk the catch a falling light with a cr.mp. It never works.

5. Any fake cross up with val.

 

[alexpi]

Much like me, my resets are all American.

 

[Dime]

Um thought i did answer your question. But to make it more obvious ill do it in numbers like Camail Also.. That post was rather short.


1. First reset is almost always a throw or overhead. This allows me to get info on my opponent depending on whether they get hit or not and how they evade the reset... Ie if i go for a first reset and they jump out of it... BIG TELL. I tailor the rest of my game to take advantage of their jump habit.

2. I'm pretty random with the exception of having gotten info from the opponent about what i should do. I definitely dont think in the terms of "this reset failed so do this one" i think more like "this reset failed to a high block so do something that beats a high block as well as some other things, next time" basically if i have a pattern its that whatever the opponent did to beat or avoid my last reset, the next one will generally be tailored to beat that... Amongst other things.

So like... Say i reset with throw and my opponent techs it... Next time i will probably fly overhead which beats techs and hits high... So 2 chances for it to win. Or maybe i will do a low... Or maybe i will call an assist while jumping... Whatever i do... Teching will not win.

Let's switch it up and say that i did a crossup and they blocked it... Next time the reset will be something that beats preemptive crossup blocking... As well as some other things.

3. This is usually my bait reset. Basically something along the lines of empty jump toward with invulnerable assist (blows up reversals from the opponent) or down back and call invincible assist.

4. I dont really think of any of my resets as desperation. I know im going to reset and so does my opponent. Or if not, they have a very good inkling that i might. But i would say the closest i get to a flowchart standard reset when I'm not thinking... Its definitely ground throw... The gift that keeps on giving. This isnt to say that i dont have flowchart reset points... I definitely do. I just mixup what the exact reset will be. I dont mind my opponent being able to predict my reset point because i guarantee that my resets arent seeable at all and are all 33/33/33 or 50/50 in my favor. HOWEVER, some of my resets are 33/33/33 but tend to work more like 50/50 simply because i know what my opponents defense is and more than that, what their defense ISNT.

5. Hmmmm... If i had to choose one with painwheel it would be lk buer xx fly up/forward j.mk.


Theoretically this shouldnt work cause its a slow overhead that hits from the front. But it does when my opponent is anticipating me to cross them up with j.hk


Many of my resets though are basically bait resets. Tame on average and designed more to be safe for me and hopefully allow a mixup or 2 should i get blocked on my first attempt.


So i hope that answers your question, though I'm pretty sure that my first post did that as well.

 

[dragonos451]

5) stupid reset that works only on smart people...
easy one : with bella, s.hk xx run stop c.lk...on smart people, it ALWAYS works, as every normal cerebella would just try to MGR. And every dummy would just block or mash reversal.

desperation reset : kanchou, kanchou, kanchou...

 

[Zidiane]

So i hope that answers your question, though I'm pretty sure that my first post did that as well.

I'm trying to have these QotW threads for healthy discussions that help us and hopefully others who lurk on the forum. Your first post was basically "I do all of the things, all the time, but only sometimes, some of the time, when necessary, like always". I want to try and have these that talk about non obvious things to help both the people talking and the people listening/lurking think about their gameplay. It becomes pointless if we don't try and delve in and dissect what we do, how we do it, and why. Like I said in the OP, it's not that we reset, but how we reset that I want to bring up.

And yes, your second post was much better. You don't have to make numbered lists of your response, I'll settle for just a meaningful one.

3. This is usually my bait reset. Basically something along the lines of empty jump toward with invulnerable assist (blows up reversals from the opponent) or down back and call invincible assist.

Also, a bait is not a reset. That's an option to use, but it doesn't quite fit in the same category as resets that beat mashing and/or keep you safe/in a favorable position even when they don't succeed as a reset.

 

[Jason]

One thing to note on the topic of defending against resets - players are a lot more likely to reset if they start their combo with a throw or some multi-hit move that scales their damage a lot.

 

[ClarenceMage]

1 & 2. Valentine: First reset I do is generally valentine's c.HP j.LP... j.HP (crossup) and I do that to see how long it takes them to adjust. If they do, then I will mix it up with the same side version. Other resets I do are the gimmick reset with midscreen j.HP j.HK adf j.MP(2) j.HK, j.LP j.MP(2)+Updo adf crossup, and if they start blocking it I run up and low throw them after the j.MP j.HK since they're hesitant in the situation. In the corner, you can just do whatever the hell you please with airdash j.HP resets, airdash empty throw low, finish jumping series do ground throw, ground throw into c.LP ground throw two times until you do ground throw c.LP c.LK to catch upback.

Filia: Midscreen, I either do s.HP IAD j.LP to c.LK crossunder, s.HP j.HP adf j.LP crossunder. Again, it's to see if they adjust and start blocking. If they do, go same side or do instant j.HK. s.HP j.HK adf LK into high-low-throw is quite stronk, works corner best, works somewhat in midscreen.

3. Burst baits are generally my safe resets, since all that happens if I fuck it up is I get pushed to full screen or I get some extra damage while they don't push buttons, but I've been trying to incorporate more safejump tech into my game. Going for burst bait/throw 50/50s is quite stronk and lets me keep putting them into throws if they don't push buttons.

4. I tend to autopilot Filia resets when I'm feeling myself but that's gotten far rarer recently.

5. Burst baits that will be burstable on the first hits, unburstable on later hits are my favourite respectful burst bait options, since I'm relying on my opponent to go "oh shit I could burst now" and they push button, then they're too late and they whiff it.

Also throws in the middle of punishable ground strings on hit at the end of combos, like valentine LP LP LP c.LK LK s.MP... throw. Filia c.LK s.MK, throw. They're expecting the combo to end, but I did something different and boy were they surprised.

 

[Mike_Z]

All of your resets should be a 50/50 or better.

If they're not, you're just relying on gimmicks that people will eventually catch on to. It leads to that quick-match mentality that you just throw something at your opponent and hope they don't know how to deal with it or haven't seen it before.

Nah. This is in no way true. If you have enough gimmicks they cease to be gimmicks.
How can a thing with two options (whatever hit or throw) be less than 50/50? I mean I suppose it could be that you usually want to do one option because it nets you the most damage, so it'd be like 90/10? But in THAT case, what you want to do is use it a LOT for the 75% side when you can afford to take some damage, and then use the 25% side when you really need it.
I do this often. :^P

Worth noting: an important aspect of resetting is that you either be EXTREMELY predictable and use it as conditioning, like the 90/10 case I just mentioned, or you should work toward being as RANDOM as you can, which means not choosing what your reset is going to be until you get there, and sometimes doing weird junk just for the heck of it. If YOU don't know what you're going to do, you become much harder to predict.
Getting nailed by an attack you are SURE the opponent will not do is incredibly demoralizing and effectively shuts you down for a while. It makes you second-guess yourself next time.
Two examples - I learned a lot of what I know about reading people from these two...Ken I. ("Sextaro") in Third Strike and Guilty Gear, and ID in Guilty Gear and BlazBlue.
Ken I. played Makoto and Potemkin*, two characters who excel at having either very good 50/50s or very good 33/33/33s, and he was incredibly random. You couldn't guess vs him because there was no pattern at all. He was very good at 3s, but he was only so-so at the actual mechanics of GG YET he won a lot and placed well in tournaments simply because opponents would lose to the fact that you couldn't predict him at all.
Here (at 40sec) is what I mean:

ID played Sol and HOS, and he did the same thing with wakeup or run-up DPs. He told me once that he had no idea if he was going to DP or not, and that aspect is what made every DP-able situation scary. He was from SoCal but here he is playing BB in Japan and perfecting Dio:

As a bonus, here's an old FFA ranbat. See if you can spot the differences between being predictable (5 Star = always gonna DP) and random (Sextaro) and why different characters suit different styles:

* like somebody else I know, though I play them for the opposite reason - since they have just good mixups you can be gimmicky as hell instead of random.

 

[Jason]

I see what you're saying but I'm not sure that I could ever actually play like that. Every time I try to be 'random' I usually just end up being even more predictable or just flailing around like an idiot.

By "at least 50/50" I mean that you have more than one mixup to apply to every situation where you want to reset. If your canned reset says 'cr.MK > Kanchou' you'd better also have cr.MK > runstop, cr.MK > Kanchou feint or whatever, to make sure you're not doing the same thing over and over.

I think at the point where you have enough gimicks to make it a solid strategy on its own or if you have the "I'm going to reset randomly whenever I feel like it" gameplan working for you, it requires a pretty thorough knowledge of your character's tools to work. You probably have more than enough knowledge of your character for the above statement to be a given at that point.

 

[Camail]

I think conditioning is more consistantly viable for resets than being random, I can usually get someone conditioned/pick up on their defensive tendencies, but then completely fuck up execution. The problem for me is picking one option at the right time and making an improv reset tight. My execution in matches is trash in general though, can't shake the nerves even after hundreds of games.

 

[Dagwood]

agreed w/ Mike, I think the best idea is to have as many combos/resets as possible so that your opponent doesn't know when the reset is coming.


I mean, if you have a good 50/50 setup, but they know it's coming, then they can guess. If they don't know its coming, its free. Unless they just get lucky.

 

[Dime]

I think the debate between random or 50/50 will get us nowhere. It is very easy to explain... Some people like and play "random" better, some people like and play "solid" or "mixup" better.


There is no way in heel, that either is better than the other. Its all about the player. Ken i is one of the most random fools out there... And that makes makoto great for him... But look at daigo... One of the most NON random fools out there... And look, it works for him. So there really is no debate.

Do what you like, do what feels natural, do what works for you.

I use ghetto grimy resets. None of that pretty stuff, just brutally calculated and fully explored reset mixups that can go 10 options deep at times... I wont ever use all the options in any given match or even a set. The options i use are dictated by my opponents tendencies as well as their character.... For instance, fortune, painwheel, and filia get air burst baited more than others, bella gets air thrown more than others, painwheel gets ground thrown and crossed up more than others, peacock gets pressure harassed more than others etc etc etc... Then inject that thinking with:


Does this player jump a lot
Does this player mash assist
Does this player mash tag
Does this player mash reversal
Does this player down back
Does this player up back
What did i do last time
Did he get hit or block or get out




Wheni get confused as two what to do (generally happens against fortune and filia)

Then i usually end with super or knockdown and allow them to go back to playing a dynamically bad neutral (will be bad for around 3 seconds after they recover) or i just do a long combo into full dizzy and wait for them to burst)


So i have all of my options covered. I have fast resets for high undizzy/ general mixup for when the opponent expects the reset to be further along in the combo.


And i have resets that go to full undizzy. Mostly though im kinda random with bow i reset because I'm always trying to get an advantaged state after the reset/put the opponent in a weird position... Like knocking them into the corner or making them choose whether to tech or not...



Er... Something like that anyways... I dont have me completely figured out...

 

[Krackatoa]

"Predictable" resets can work just fine.

1. The setup shouldn't lose to reversals, or should lock out options that would give the defender offensive momentum.
2. The setup should be a truly ambiguous left/right or high/low.
3. If possible, the setup shouldn't sacrifice offensive pressure if it fails.

If you have the first two things, your reset is solid. If you have all three, why not do it? I know Painwheel has air corner resets on some characters that satisfy all of these. It's why I still do the forever-carry.

I find "Unpredictable", shittier resets work well because people fall asleep during my normal super-long combos. No one expects tiny strings into resets when they've been getting hit by forever combos the rest of the time.

Also, doing strings that catch Up+Back AND Down+Back in succession are important. Make use of Prox-Block Prejump Cancels... If someone is auto-piloting on defense (Holding one direction or another), you can catch them with certain strings.

 

[Hilary]

scrub opinions.

Spoiler

1) First reset: What do you do first? You know, that reset you have to test the waters? To see whether or not they're smart? Maybe it's always this one cause you like it, or it's the only one you got.

Less of a reset and more of a just stop comboing or go for an american reset to see if they're mashing. I may trigger a burst with IPS to see if they're mashing and reset back to neutral. Knowledge of what they do in situations is kind of important for everything else I'm going to do or make decisions on.

2) 50/50: If you get to that point in the match where they have beaten your first reset .. What's your go-to option for 50/50's? Do you switch them up depending on your opponent's character?

Not too sure. I guess just have a lot of resets. I try to have at least 3-4 good reset points in all my characters' combos, as well as the point-blank/fast resets you need for things like resetting after 1-2 hits from a throw conversion (to beat scaling). Then there's some other utility stuff like resets with a specific purpose like getting a character in without meter, etc.

3) Setup reset: Sometimes you get to a point in a match where you don't want to risk a reset. What if they block, or reversal, or what have you? These are resets that their main purpose is to keep you safe with a chance to reset or to catch mashing (these are usually hard knockdown burst baits or safe jumps, but there could be others, and they may be character specific)

My ideal requirements for a reset I want to use are that they be flexible enough to reset in several different ways. I have a few that allow you to do an air chain that leaves them about half a character's height off the ground when you land. From there, you have the option of either continuing the combo normally, dashing underneath them for a crossup (and from there, low/throw), or air throwing them from the same side. If I'm concerned someone is mashing an air super, I can just do the chain, block, and if there's no mashed super, air throw since it's quick enough.

4) Desperation Reset: While players try not to ever get desperate in a match, sometimes it happens. You're at the point where the tension is high and your brain is in panic survival mode, and you just do before thinking. This can dangerously lead to mashed reversals if you aren't well prepared mentally, but it can also lead to "mashed resets" if you will, something I don't hear mentioned very often (though I admittedly can't listen to everyone everywhere all the time). Mashed resets are ones your opponent may have shown themselves capable of beating every time, but you do it anyway. Do you have one, if you've noticed? They aren't as easy to spot as mashed reversals.

I don't think I've ever done a reset I wasn't confident in based on results from previous attempts. That's not to say I'm never wrong and don't get bopped all the time for this; quite the opposite. But yeah, if you're not confident in your reset, you kinda just don't do the reset and either take the full undizzy's worth of combo/damage, hit them in such a way that they're in a good position for more pressure, or hit them in such a way that allows you to get character-specific resources like vial loads or stance charges.

I do think re-using a reset or reset point once you've demonstrated that you have more than a few is good. You can escalate the complexity or use different ones, and once they're worried about that, maybe they've forgotten the first one or are too preoccupied with the new one(s) to react well to the previous ones. If you're playing a FT10 with someone, I don't think it's unreasonable to re-use a reset they haven't seen in 5 games.

It's really a question of how smart you think the player is about adapting to a reset that you've hit them with, how long you think they'll remember the ones you've used, and how well they can juggle all of that information and make decisions while playing, and how long the match/format is.

5) Stupid reset that works cause they're smart: Have any of these? Resets that are just so simple and straight forward and obvious that they work only because the opponent was smart and assumed you'd do something tricky? And you know this is the case cause when you play bad players they never fall for it? Aren't those lovely?

I think this is where reset "layering" really shines. I've seen some Val resets that launch > air chain > crossunder. This is normally a reset on its own, but people are conditioned/experienced for it. From there you deviate from the crossunder, and just go for a crossup j.HP or j.LK that almost anyone can block under normal circumstances. Since you threw the obvious at them, most players are kinda preoccupied by the first crossunder that they recognized, and then they just don't react well to the part that's too dumb to fail. It has the added bonuses of rattling them or making them angry, as well as making them think something basic (the first crossunder) is now scarier or deeper than it really should be.

 

[Dime]

Lol, Christ people, its all just mixups. The same reset point is quite good if you use it as a MIXUP point.

This is the EXACT SAME THING as using different reset spots... You are just MIXING UP the POINT at which you reset.

Its better to use both types of mixups, but lets not reinvent the horse and call the same exact thing something different cause some know it all seems to think that they are highly different...

 

[Tomo009]

I don't really have any set thing that I do to be honest.

Usually if I face a new opponent, they are new to the game at this point, there aren't many games I go in with no knowledge of the opponent but also having to make reads early on. I usually know my opponents and they know me, so we skip the layer of throwing out safe test resets and go straight into the usual stuff.

I like to have as many reset points as possible and I reset basically at whatever point I "feel" I guess. I try not to use the same reset point too much in one play session, though sometimes I do like to start playing mind games and just 50/50 at the same point over and over if it keeps landing.

I also like to reset when it is completely unnecessary just to make myself feel good (and the opponent bad).