• As part of the relaunch of Skullheart, ALL previous threads have been archived. You can find them at the bottom of the forum in the Archives (2021) section. The archives are locked, so please use the new forum sections to create new discussion threads.

(Updated April21) We Will [Not] Return! Defunct Squigly Wishlist Thread

Nuuance

Level 51 Pastrymancer
Joined
Sep 4, 2013
Messages
820
Reaction score
368
Points
63
Location
Toronto
Website
youtube.com
Steam
Nuuance
Squigly Eliza
[[It was really cool talking about new concepts & ideas, but it seems clear it’s a wrap with characters apart from DLC so I can’t recommend commenting in good faith — nothing will come from it. if you think things are fine then more power to you & keep enjoying…For others such as myself, Id hoped for more tools worth using past sub-niche cases & a fun shakeup, but perhaps not. i may speak up sure but my voice was only 1 of many who wanted something done. I guess feel free to scroll through below thoughts. Thanks for everyone’s feedback & have fun to whoever still gets sweaty.]]

Welcome back any & everyone. It's been such a long time, but Skullgirls & all of you are still here. Couldn't be happier. I'm excited because for once, the process to voice what new things you'd like is starting to open up. I want to hear what you all have to say primarily as Squigly Mains. To be clear it's a thread primarily about additions to Squigly be they QoL, property modifications, charge mechanic ideas -- things to update & refresh Squigly in a way you think is good for the game. Any other discussions counter to this can be saved for other threads.

I will be aggregating primary points from discord/etc as well as updating OP with feedback specifically from here as well so we have a running list of pain points & overall things us Squigly players talk about. She isnt a bad character but for a while it's been clear she needs some love in some gaps. keep in mind regardless of comment length, they're things thought to be sorely lacking or forgotten; nothing extra was included just because. Some will value one thing above another, but we all share this game & want as many people to enjoy so keep viewing from various player's perspectives. All I ask. ThankYou so much :)

So what things would you like? Just give your idea & reasoning.
For any unsubstantiated thoughts (including my own), ill put in a separate spoiler.
Don't be shy & again welcome back!

Normals​

- s.mk: Mini Launcher/give anti-air property // thought: not used in combo filler since release. tonney pointed out a well-received hitbox change. mini launcher gives j.mp use & tmk no one can use s.mp vortex or stancel run under with a small pop up slightly away. not enough time. serves as a smaller s.hk, simple enough

Specials​

- uncharged tremolo: faster useable startup/recovery, tracking // thought: no reason to use over dp to create space or reach nearby opponent (definitely not in neutral). c.hp not being a finicky link would be nice especially. frankly great in corner for s.hp link but outside that, its a whole unused k-special. Tracking would would round out her anti-zone/semi-zone kit without needing to charge (since raw chord is quite unsafe). Squigly's hybrid anti-zoner, but her main tool for that isnt too helpful right now.
- charged tremolo: decently faster startup/recovery // thought: rarely used, typically gameplay is a little fast for this...it's not a terrible move, but again, its never been great & converting requires meter. Pushing opponent back/to corner is wonderful seeing that its the only move doing that since squigly needs space, but its not used tactically in that way either since she usually ends up where she started if opponent hasnt already started dashing forward; just being a little faster would cement her only real distanced special outside of chord.
- L Divekick: Fall quicker w/No hitbox or fall backwards // thought: Good point made by Wonderland (and others regularly). her L divekick is not much different from the M version. Less blockstun makes for tighter tick grabs & other things...but M can do most the same things with adjustments. I like L divekick for what it does, but wouldnt mind trying some of those suggestions

Supers​

- Daisy: DHC window extended to coffin drop // thought: Everyone can use a DHC normally except squigly...no good reason for not & SBO isn't always compatible or just misses. SBO damage already is lower than normal for a super.
- Centerstage Super: 1 meter, Charged Centerstage only. Needs & depletes Both charges. If not blocking (same as now), instead of SBO, time stops for 6secs for custom scaled combo. Opponent stays in place & opponents momentum starts after supers over, same recovery on block // thought: Overall timestop is a very fun concept. But limited in the way of variation way it is now. This gives squigly players expanded use of the mechanic to really feel like we're stopping time without overshadowing the possibilities SBO already has to convert -- goes by the same rules, same tool new flavour. The flexibility & expression many squigly players value truly comes out. Having something significantly new to try each time around would be absolutely great & exciting not only to play, but watch. Video Example & expanded description here https://skullheart.com/threads/upda...ing-squigly-wishlist-thread.11584/post-413977

Charges​

- uncharged specials: save charge, use uncharged specials // thought: Playing as squigly right now is a bit 2-dimensional in that most players will not use seria specials unless they have charge & as of right now, you are hard pressed to see squiglys use any specials in neutral outside Centerstage. Even using raw charged chord, theres a minority. It's no different than beowulf choosing to use or not use hype; Squigly is the Original resource character, why cant we choose? She's about using a myriad of tools in various and unique situations hence niche moveset - yet squiglys feel forced to not use or adapt them. if you can chord normally, you should be able to save k charge, as limited as it already is. These specials either significantly scale combos, give opponent their turn back or need meter to convert. noted as on schedule long while ago. Many squigs been asking for this. qcb to use, holding doesnt charge obviously. Moosenheim noted dp shouldnt be reversed; L forces uncharged, M still Holdable, H keeps invuln startup.
- Benefit to K-charge: Passive benefit, in recent year/s air dash been brought up for a while now // thought: Theres simply no reason to charge & before dragons breath giving player better choice-based gameplay & expression/creativity. Whether a dash or something else interesting, something to expand playstyle's been desired

Other​

- resource indicators: definitely needed. showing partial charge as well
- tag-in: slightly faster startup/recovery & tombstone maintains distance in front of player // thought: Squigs tag-in isn't the easiest, thats fine. But when trying to plan purposefully, it's still very hard to get anything in particular to work. Let alone tagging after a vanilla sliding knockdown or incoming usually being dangerous. Regulated behaviour & pathing would help greatly not to mention help for many on incoming. a nightmare for sure. being a glue team character, tag-in shouldnt be so hard. Still not easy, but more reasonable.
- Charged Assist Specials: Uses charged special, charges if not already. // thought: Pretty much other characters like peacock & beo have 2-tiered assist specials. Takes commitment & strategy to use since you cant just throw them out. Longtime ask. in SDE days, people used various specials but now meta makes it hard to justify anything besides dragnbite or h normals. She has 5 entire other specials...theres many other characters with a better selection & annie/umbrella assists are looking really good right now. Lets get back to being that one team character

- level 5: Visual Update // thought: honestly just a visual update matching sfvs raging demon or whatevers feasible would rock. Feel great, look great.
- keep stage 2 on chargeless seria stancels // thought: outside of jump loops (scaling), required for most strings so definitely nice qol tonney noticed.
- Charged Liver Mortis: universal wallbounce/sliding knockdown & Even(ish) on block (not positive) // thought: doesnt have any safe p-charge specials. lowkey but important aspect. Dont think it should be positive, but just not negative. Important to note when used in neutral, only way to convert outside corner use is meter; so use isnt a freebie in any capacity. One or two people mentioned making sliding knockdown but i understand that mightve been relegated to arpeggio for a reason to spread out properties on moves which is more than fair. Safe on block (not positive) at least justifies any use outside of combo material or centerstage because right now she cant use any of her kit *normally* w/no frills.
- SBO: Small damage increase // thought: Mostly used for the utility, but in general for pixel situations it's always short compared to others.
- j.mp: hitbox adjusted to fit visually. more effective & reach further // thoughts: useful for hovering. But for combos it's not used in optimal mostly or air-to-air j.lk or j.lp usually outclass. Must be significantly higher for H divekick to convert. Its a tricky move because visually looks so much better (especially flame extending out). Robo j.hp vibe, thats what i mean. i think that's reasonable.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Liam

nedz1926

Fighting games enthusiast
Joined
Jun 17, 2021
Messages
3
Reaction score
1
Points
3
Age
32
Location
Germany/Italy
Eliza Parasoul Filia
I'm new here and I play on Nintendo switch, it would be possible a section for switch players? :)
 

Nuuance

Level 51 Pastrymancer
Joined
Sep 4, 2013
Messages
820
Reaction score
368
Points
63
Location
Toronto
Website
youtube.com
Steam
Nuuance
Squigly Eliza
I'm new here and I play on Nintendo switch, it would be possible a section for switch players? :)
probably in a different section of the forums, this is about squigly changes

speaking of changes, DHC with daisy working would be cool & something to refresh charges in some way. I definitely think they need a little update for k charges having a decent passive ability.

also, the feature of using uncharged specials to save charges I still think is something to look at as there was actual interest despite reaction of a couple. The same functions are available now with assists and we haven’t seen abuse of sliding knockdowns with squigly at any point in the meta. And chord > combo > arpeggio I get the feeling doesn’t bypass anything optimal rn because of IPS/undizzy & also you still expend a charge either way after using. Her other specials can’t combo into without assists or highly scale, same way as now. I’m sure a lab monster could figure out a meter less bnb using chord > uncharged livermortis for around 6.5k, but in my testing with IPS/undizzy, you’re not going any higher. People can already do it now but its not used. Eliza players don’t even really bother w/s.hk knockdowns as gameplan. Double & beo are the main ones who are KD royalty.

biggest standout would be using uncharged livermortis when you want, which can be grabbed, up-backed & generally isn’t that ‘tricky’ as I’ve been testing it out & it’s not that magical (people don’t even use it now).

So yeah, I do think it’s worth holding onto as something to try. She gets more flexibility, could definitely use normal sing more along with her specials in neutral more & becomes more complete overall. But yeah in general you’re not cheating out more damage or some tactic changing the way people engage her.

—————
edit: also squigly having her DP work like Annie, different heights, DP effects would be nice. Like lp having shorter recovery hitting once, medium, twice
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: nedz1926

KTFS

Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2016
Messages
36
Reaction score
28
Points
18
Location
Taiwan
Steam
ktfsktfs
Valentine Squigly Beowulf
An insane buff would be letting her charged stance cancel another charged special move
like livermortis(charged)-->236KK to stance cancel (the cancel should probably use up the K charge as well)
This would be pretty OP even if you put a bunch of restriction on it
 

iControl

Blub-Blub-Blub-Blub... limited reached
Joined
Oct 28, 2016
Messages
6
Reaction score
11
Points
3
Age
27
Location
New York
Steam
iControl
Valentine Cerebella Double
I would like something to indicate if she has a charge or not in neutral. Maybe keep Leviathan head on fire like at the end of getting a punch charge or having a purple highlight around her body or something. My reasoning would be it would be nice to not second guess if you or your opponent has a charge in neutral while there's a lot of other things to worry about. This could help improve reacting to squilgys unblockable setups and help squilgy players combo routing with out going for a suboptimal route because they have to second guess whether or not they have charge.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nyomincia

Liam

. . .
Hidden Variable
Administrator
Moderator
Joined
Feb 11, 2021
Messages
81
Reaction score
226
Points
33
Unknown Unknown Unknown
the liam from 5 years ago would have asked for the spread gun, so

give squigly the spread gun from contra
 
  • Like
Reactions: softie and Sinclair

fayestra

New Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2021
Messages
18
Reaction score
15
Points
3
Steam
https://steamcommunity.com/id/fayestra/
Squigly
uncharged tremolo being low doesnt seem all that useful since squigly already has plenty of good low moves that can be stance cancelled for frame advantage and be less vulnerable on whiff, so in a vacuum tremolo would be much better but would be outclassed by squigly's other pressure options.

imo having both versions track to the opponent would be a cooler change, charged tremolo is already a p niche tool and needs charged sing into sbo to convert from fullscreen, so having it be more readily available wouldnt be super game changing but would give a bit more flexibility in using sing and could open up interesting assist usage without it being exclusive to the proposed charged assist idea. itd give squigly a longer range assist option to work both for zoning and counter zoning. faster recovery would definitely help a lot too, likely with blockstun/blockstop decreasing somewhat.
 

Nuuance

Level 51 Pastrymancer
Joined
Sep 4, 2013
Messages
820
Reaction score
368
Points
63
Location
Toronto
Website
youtube.com
Steam
Nuuance
Squigly Eliza
uncharged tremolo being low doesnt seem all that useful since squigly already has plenty of good low moves that can be stance cancelled for frame advantage and be less vulnerable on whiff, so in a vacuum tremolo would be much better but would be outclassed by squigly's other pressure options.

imo having both versions track to the opponent would be a cooler change, charged tremolo is already a p niche tool and needs charged sing into sbo to convert from fullscreen, so having it be more readily available wouldnt be super game changing but would give a bit more flexibility in using sing and could open up interesting assist usage without it being exclusive to the proposed charged assist idea. itd give squigly a longer range assist option to work both for zoning and counter zoning. faster recovery would definitely help a lot too, likely with blockstun/blockstop decreasing somewhat.
True I didn’t really think about it that way with tracking. Couple people on main cord said same thing but genuinely forgot, Ill update the thing. Being a little faster & more flexible would be refreshing.
 
Joined
Jun 16, 2021
Messages
8
Reaction score
5
Points
3
Age
20
Location
Boston, Massachusetts
Website
twitter.com
Steam
https://steamcommunity.com/id/AAIWonderland/
Squigly Big Band Eliza
figure ill add my two cents to this. i think squig is very strong and in a good place, but some of her tools are a bit lacking, heres what i would do to change that
-clp restands. give us a reason to use it, at all. the animation is so cute!
-smk low launch ground opponents a la peacock smk. its useless now, i dont think this will really help but itll be something. a faster launcher for assist punish would be nice
-sweep hits both sides. completely unnesecary, but itd be cool and it matches the animation :v
-remove l dive hitbox! maybe make it fall faster, too. i know this is a contraversial one, but theres hardly any reason to use L dive atm, and this would basically make it a fastfall. personally i think id find much more use for it, but lmk what yall think
-charge mortis from wallbounce > skd, recovers fast enough to allow a combo in the corner. losing the pressure for doing charged over uncharged midscreen suuuucks, and hurts her pressure game a lil imo
-increase arrpeggio chip. occasionally great to use on block if you react or predict pb, but its pb fodder by itself so it doesnt see much use. increasing the reward on block a lil might carve out more of a niche for this move
-uncharged tremolo... make it do something? i dont really care much about this move as it serves no purpous in her kit aside from niche on hit stuff, itd be nice if it was good for something. id say make it a low but i dont even think that helps. fwiw i think the charged version is fine and good, altho a startup buff would be nice

i dont think any of these changes would break her or even significantly impact her strength, just carve out niches and make her a little more interesting
 

Moose Lee

New Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2021
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Yee-Haw
Steam
Moosenheim
Squigly Parasoul Unknown
Regarding normals, j.MP has its uses for stopping momentum/applying pressure-in-place similar to Annie j.MK or Val's movement (though the motion here is more tense and controlled; on theme) and is a powerful tool for her neutral and spacing. Perhaps hold j.MP or input 236MP mid-air to use up a charge and have a kind of mid-air Mortis/Kikoken/Kikosho or enable a re-beat into j.LP or j.LK? It gives off major "stand your ground" vibes, and gives an underutilized move a niche and potentially a unique use for punch charge.

Charges​

- uncharged specials: save charge, use uncharged specials // thought: Playing as squigly right now is a bit 2-dimensional in that most players will not use seria specials unless they have charge & as of right now, you are hard pressed to see squiglys use any specials in neutral outside Centerstage. Even using raw charged chord, theres a minority. It's no different than beowulf choosing to use or not use hype; Squigly is the Original resource character, why cant we choose? She's about using a myriad of tools in various and unique situations hence niche moveset - yet squiglys feel forced to not use or adapt them. if you can chord normally, you should be able to save k charge, as limited as it already is. Moves either scale or give opponent turn back or need meter to convert. noted as on schedule long while ago. Many squigs been asking for this. qcb to use, holding doesnt charge obviously

What would this mean for Draugen Punch? 421P to use the move and keep charge seems as though it would be relatively unintuitive and unnecessary (that's room for another potential 3 moves!) and could lead to situations where you use up charge accidentally due to a crossup or inadvertently triggering SBO in the worst case scenario (doing that input in a corner feels almost claustrophobic too; ending a motion in down-back for a DP gives a cornered animal-kind of vibe, especially if you're trying to actually get out of the corner by using it; I don't think it fits thematically. Perhaps have 623LP use no charge (regular DP), with MP using half (the technical option) and HP using all the K-charge (the damage option)?

K-Charge Passive

The proposed K-charge Passive buffs have plenty of opportunity for new and interesting things: obviously extra ground walk/dash speed could be tested as a bare minimum (maybe make item drop potentially whiff on a K-charged Squig backdash if you time it right, lol), though air-dash cancels might make things a little too floaty or oppressive especially where j.HP is concerned; kick charge's benefit giving a punch button an advantage seems strange design-wise, even if you had to use up some or all of the K charge for a single-use dash.
Even though she has strong air tools, I'm not sure she's meant to be too ridiculously mobile (graceful/powerful for sure though), and her kick-charge passive should reflect that, (also stays on theme with the Filia/Samson || Squig/Leviathan rivalry and their themes/gameplay; Filia's dangerous in the air, Squig's dangerous from the ground)

If, then, K-charge passive is meant to apply more benefits for ground game or aggression, it'd be nice if c.HK into charged chord would always link as a byproduct of K-charge applying a passive (and only charged chord; if you're committing to maintaining pressure after a sweep, make it cost something to followup, no freebies); it'd make her natural sweep more of a viable tool, since right now it has no real follow-up: sweep into chord only links if the opponent doesn't tech (sweep into raw chord and sweep into charged chord even have different timing requirements to hit if the opponent chooses not to tech!)

If the Charge Retention changes (QCB for uncharged special to retain charge,etc.) go through, c.HK into regular chord would be re-usable and potentially lead to stale or busted gameplay (using a kick charge passive buff, retaining the kick charge and getting a punch charge off of sweep -> chord -> lockdown assist after some of these other changes? yikes).


If committing to the s.MK as a launcher/anti-air change, maybe have it be an anti-air by default, but have it launch as a K-charge passive, may or may not use up half charge to launch, depending on balance needs.

Other Comments

For balance, there could also potentially be a small nerf to j.LK's parameters without K-charge and small buff to the parameters with K-charge (I know some folks don't take too kindly to j.LK, so it's something to test at least)

The resource indicators in particular could make half-charge costs feasible as another balance lever if a special becomes too powerful or overcentralizing.
Though I gotta say Squig's raw tag behavior is fine as-is; if you're using it as a pseudo-remote DP, the top of the hitbox (or a new hitbox at the top) for the tag-in's first hit could have a bounce effect to lead into LP+HP SBO if you want to follow up, but a full combo after a raw tag as bulky and impactful as hers should require more effort than usual.
I don't think adding edge-case preset launches is the way to make it more reliable, the abrupt change in momentum on collision should allude to the behavior of whatever's being hit. At the very least, a launch off of Squig tag-in should be able to be caught by a timed Chord (regardless of charge) or the proposed s.MK change.

Charged Specials for Assists would be a great priority, I feel there'd be a large ROI in regards to innovation, especially combined with the charge retention inputs (QCB+button).


The Charged Liver Mortis changes could be interesting, since DnB and Center Stage have more clearly defined use-cases; if keeping the QCB LP addition for uncharged Mortis, possibly use meter and a QCF LP input on-block to add a charged mortis-esque hit (for pushback, no damage; adds to the "one-inch punch" feel, it'd be really cool as an alpha counter option/mix).

Outro

Any points regarding the aggregate changes (especially the specials and supers) in the OP I didn't mention, I agree with as-is.

I'm all for making Squig more accessible and getting her QoL and gameplay improvements, I'm just hoping the changes expand her existing gameplay tools while keeping them coherent and consistent with her aesthetics and design.

Got some further thoughts below:


Assuming the changes to Charge Retention go through as listed in the OP:

If a 214MK (regular Chord, K charge retained) whiffs, perhaps use a kick charge (QCF K) to append a risk/reward mixup for an opponent trying to chase the tail for the punish (ranged punishes or super punishes could win regardless);

236LK for a mini-arpeggio (possible armor/physical projectile break, super low damage, potential mini stagger are all variables to test/tweak),
236MK for a desperation grab/snatch, reduced hitstun, pull range, or stagger in-place
236HK for a reasonably-timed no-jump debuff, (for the effect/visual, maybe Leviathan's tail breaks off and acts as a prison anklet/spiketrap; small animation is used to regrow the tail tip before the move's recovery to ease transition to squig's other poses/animations if need be)

All would be blockable, since the first chord did whiff, after all, but whiffing on purpose then using the charge to bait can be considered a calculated risk. Have chord be frighteningly minus if you use the charge this way and it's blocked/whiffed, both for balance and to discourage mashing and "no-brainer" followups; Squig should be rewarded for precision and timing.

Also side note: In my experience, Chord is near impossible to use as a defensive option vs. a good Sekhmet's mobility and pressure, even charged; and landing charged sing -> daisy pusher or Squig's sweep/snap ain't much help. These changes could add some more diverse play patterns in that matchup, neutral in particular. (with a little Leviathan/Sekhmet lore flavor, claw and tail clashing, 236LK loses, 236MK wins kinda, 236HK gives slight disadvantage, cured by retreating or lead into more neutral by continuing offense)

Allowing it to cancel into Lv5 even after the 2nd whiff would be hilariously scary, BUT if you whiff THIS Lv5, it puts Squig into perma-counterhit state and/or sets opponent's next combo to have reverse scaling as if Squig got hit by fukua's Lv5, for a super endgame risk/reward hype factor type deal, but also to really dive into the "relentless zombie" trope; if she manages to get you, it's like, "oh no they lost focus for a sec, the skullgirl's influence broke through a little and they got out of control but hey at least it ended well...or did it?!", but if all of it whiffs, it's almost like she's being punished by the game (and Leviathan) for being so reckless and unladylike, surely she was raised better than that!


Maybe be able to buffer Lv5 input if charged silver chord hits? or at the very least have raging demon and chord meet in the middle (possible zoom in) as an extra flair if it'll kill, a la Penguin? if you manage to meet Squig's Lv5 requirements everyone already knows what's coming if you land a chord. Possibly an extra animation or SFX easter egg if you land one on Halloween?
 

orian34

Operator
Joined
Jun 29, 2021
Messages
26
Reaction score
26
Points
13
Steam
orian34
Squigly Squigly Squigly
-remove l dive hitbox! maybe make it fall faster, too. i know this is a contraversial one, but theres hardly any reason to use L dive atm, and this would basically make it a fastfall. personally i think id find much more use for it, but lmk what yall think
That's something I would be against quite a bit, I use it as a mid combo reset as a frame trap. It's as fast as if I used m dive but it stops the combo, meaning the next hits can do a reset when they don't expect it.
 

Nuuance

Level 51 Pastrymancer
Joined
Sep 4, 2013
Messages
820
Reaction score
368
Points
63
Location
Toronto
Website
youtube.com
Steam
Nuuance
Squigly Eliza
Moosey one o the squigly bros :) nice to see you on forums

Good point on DPs. Great idea. L uncharged, M hold, H retain invuln startup on charge as it does now. More intuitive that way.

For K charge passive, i actually don't know if an IAD j.hp would actually have enough time to even come out since you need a minimum height & time to allow full extension. Might reach halfway at most but thatd be tightt. Not sure if you've messed around with trying to eek out as many hits from ...j.mk > j.hp loops. Surprisingly need more windup than i thought. Totally see what you're saying about being thematic. Notably, centerstage, the P Charge passive You could say k moves are strengthened the most by it. being complementary as a character is good; though she has to take time/resources/space to setup first. I think the main idea behind the passive is just the overall theme dealing with speed/dexterity in a noticeable manner.

(sweep blue bounces so you cant follow it up w/chord unless otg in which case reset is probably helping them more)
See what you're saying with chord & k-charge passive. Definitely dont disagree it could be an effective new tool. although not iad, the same chord oki has been around with normal jump (even jumping camera higher than can see for shenanigans or j.mp lol). Was used in SDE days, but (surprisingly?) afterwards In general stagger resets in sg have been shunned overall. it could be a new thing, but what im trying to say is squigly as she is now has had access to what really should be uber effective tactically (infinite sliding knockdowns) but much is ignored or not used because more value is seen in doing it another way. namely more dependable resets. all it takes is one-too-many mashes, raw tags or fuzzies.

everyone has a notable jump in & air-to-air. squiglys is j.lk...fukua's j.lp, doubles j.hp, filias j.hp. pretty much pick your poison.

i wasnt saying raw tag shouldnt require more effort. i was saying it's harder getting squiglys raw tag to do anything for you than it is getting double in safely or comboing with her slow. It's very hard and unless you have a mega bounce it's a no go. not to mention movement behaviour makes it incredibly hard, no exaggeration. not wanting to change effect on hit, keeping same i get that, but having a harder time getting *anything* off tag feels unreasonable for what & who squigly is, a team player. i dont want it to be fast just fixed enough to use properly. Primarily consistent & helpful pathing. As a note i dont want to pretend there arent uses for anything or certain things arent doable. Thats why i play squigly, to solve puzzles. They have uses, she's not bad & centerstage is strong if you can play around your opponent & they're lax w/block checks. The issue is many of these niche uses aren't picking up the slack. That's all. I don't want to downplay. But sometimes the grass isn't greener in certain areas lol.

I think the chord cancels are really interesting. Chord recovery has always been something i was ambivalent about, but for uncharged i think that'd be fair -- just have it take all charges. half charges & the like would get messy & being able to make that safe is admittedly big. i think paying for it is appropriate. Level 5 idea is sick :) lol that & visual buff most deff.

---- ---- ----
@wonderland
playing today i got a couple one inch punches charged in & was thinking "why doesnt this wallbounce universally (sekh j.hp)" if it's the first hit, get wallbounce. otherwise, act normally. i still like wallbounce but also think skd is cool tho i cant help but think of overlap with arpeggio charged. either way would be cool to try something new for it. tbh we already have access to higher damage charge bnbs so i dont think an unconditional universal wallbounce would change much for numbers if tonneys bnbs are any indicator. You still need & expend a charge.
---- ---- ----

My Idea: "One Stage"
i LOVE squiglys time stop ability. But wish it was more integral with what we have now.
It's simple: must have both charges. spend 1 meter deplete both charges, hold mp+hp during hitstop for a dedicated centerstage super. if not blocking (as usual), opponent is frozen & squigly has 6 seconds to do what she wants (not a lot of time as shown in video & both charges depleted. might have to run/jump to opponent as well as charge up again). Any inertia in opponent is stored, starting up after super ends (in video). Can literally do anything long as it fits into the 6 seconds, DHC/tag to another character even. the time stop itself becomes a free combo stage, though IPS still works normally in that couple seconds. So no s.hp stancel marathons. Super uses a 0-damage hitbox counting as a hit scaling combos sooner for less damage. or scale as you see fit. doesnt matter just something fair. Some added FX using what we have & Recovery on block same as centerstage. behaves the same as what we have already with same limitations so no new tactics getting in -- though instead of SBO or Daisy, for 1 meter you can do a custom super yourself for more creativity & expression, not to mention DHCs/team dynamics. Comboing into it would be a blast. And fun as in being excited about trying something different each time you play. unironically one of my wishes for the year is to try this. pretty please devs of the gods.

First video titles facetious but short & has some interesting things to say I couldn’t think of. the other 2 are short 30sec clips of some entertaining examples lol. anyways Obviously squigly isn't axl, but you get the gist. Also having gotten into blazblue again lately and experiencing the freedom…Umbrella inspired me too. I think Skullgirls could definitely gleam inspiration from a couple things conceptually!

I'll look over OP again when i get a chance
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 16, 2021
Messages
8
Reaction score
5
Points
3
Age
20
Location
Boston, Massachusetts
Website
twitter.com
Steam
https://steamcommunity.com/id/AAIWonderland/
Squigly Big Band Eliza
That's something I would be against quite a bit, I use it as a mid combo reset as a frame trap. It's as fast as if I used m dive but it stops the combo, meaning the next hits can do a reset when they don't expect it.
you can delay ur mix of m dive, or with that change, use l for an empty land for an even faster reset than u can get currently
- SBO: Small but noticeable damage increase // thought: Mostly used for the utility, but in general for pixel situations it's always short compared to others

Charges​

- uncharged specials: save charge, use uncharged specials // thought: Playing as squigly right now is a bit 2-dimensional in that most players will not use seria specials unless they have charge & as of right now, you are hard pressed to see squiglys use any specials in neutral outside Centerstage. Even using raw charged chord, theres a minority. It's no different than beowulf choosing to use or not use hype; Squigly is the Original resource character, why cant we choose? She's about using a myriad of tools in various and unique situations hence niche moveset - yet squiglys feel forced to not use or adapt them. if you can chord normally, you should be able to save k charge, as limited as it already is. Moves either scale or give opponent turn back or need meter to convert. noted as on schedule long while ago. Many squigs been asking for this. qcb to use, holding doesnt charge obviously. Moosenheim noted dp shouldnt be reversed; L uncharged, M Holdable, H keep invuln startup.
- Benefit to K-charge: Passive benefit, in recent year/s an extra air dash been brought up for a while now // thought: Theres simply no reason to charge & before dragons breath giving player better choice-based gameplay & expression/creativity.

Other​

- tag-in: slightly faster startup/recovery & maintains distance in front of player // thought: Squigs tag-in isn't the easiest, thats fine. But when trying to plan, it shouldnt be harder to combo into after a big move or ground bounce than doubles. Let alone tagging after a vanilla sliding knockdown being tough. Regulated behaviour & pathing would help greatly not to mention help for many on incoming. a nightmare for sure. being a glue character, tag-in shouldnt be so hard
- Charged Assist Specials: Uses charged special, charges if not already. // thought: Pretty much other characters like peacock & beo have 2-tiered assist specials. Takes commitment & strategy to use since you cant just throw them out. Longtime ask. in SDE days, people used various specials but now meta makes it hard to justify anything besides dragnbite or h normals. She has 5 entire other specials...theres many other characters with a better selection & annie/umbrella assists are looking really good right now. Lets get back to being that one team character

- keep stage 2 on chargeless seria stancels // thought: outside of jump loops (scaling), required for most strings so definitely nice qol tonney noticed.
- Charged Liver Mortis: universal wallbounce/sliding knockdown & Even on block (not positive) // thought: doesnt have any safe p-charge specials. lowkey but important aspect. Dont think it should be positive, but just not negative. Important to note when used in neutral, only way to convert outside corner use is meter; so use isnt a freebie in any capacity. One or two people mentioned making sliding knockdown but i understand that mightve been relegated to arpeggio for a reason to spread out properties on moves which is more than fair. Safe on block (not positive) at least justifies any use outside of combo material or centerstage because right now she cant use any of her kit *normally* w/no frills.
- j.mp: hitbox adjusted to fit visually. more effective & reach further // thoughts: useful for hovering. But for combos it's not used in optimal mostly or air-to-air j.lk or j.lp usually outclass. Must be significantly higher for H divekick to convert. Its a tricky move because visually looks so much better (especially flame extending out). Robo j.hp vibe, thats what i mean. i think that's reasonable.
- M Draugen Punch: Annie M Dp treatment w/lower knockback & better recovery // thought: M Strength for many is kind of a lost move. Here it's put to use same way most dp strengths are.

[/SPOILER]
I somehow missed your initial post! so ill give my thoughts now
-sbo damage increase would be very unnessecary, and i kind of like how it does more chip than damage at max scaling. i wouldnt mind a buff here, tho
-uncharged specials would be really neat! i know theyd change her design a bit, but i think theyd only make her more interesting
-in terms of incentivizing kick charge, one small thing i think they could do is increase the forward movement on stancel so it has confirm/combo utility over the punch variant
-id prefer if tag in delay incomings, like bella dynamo. tagging into squig shouldnt be easy since sbo is so good, but being minus after kill > tag is reaaaaal anoyinng
-stage 2 seria cancels are jank, dont want it. as it is now, stancels work really well and naturally with chain rules
-mortis could be -4 yea
-i forgot jmp hitbox buff! its a really cool normal, and i think its very underutilized, but the hitbox is so hard to use

and finally for nuuances last reply
My Idea: "One Stage"
i LOVE squiglys time stop ability. But wish it was more integral with what we have now.
It's simple: must have both charges. spend 1 meter deplete both charges, hold mp+hp during hitstop for a dedicated centerstage super. if not blocking (as usual), opponent is frozen & squigly has 6 seconds to do what she wants (not a lot of time as shown in video & both charges depleted. might have to run/jump to opponent as well as charge up again). Any inertia in opponent is stored, starting up after super ends (in video). Can literally do anything long as it fits into the 6 seconds, DHC/tag to another character even. the time stop itself becomes a free combo stage, though IPS still works normally in that couple seconds. So no s.hp stancel marathons. Super uses a 0-damage hitbox counting as a hit scaling combos sooner for less damage. or scale as you see fit. doesnt matter just something fair. Some added FX using what we have & Recovery same as centerstage. behaves the same as what we have already with same limitations so no new tactics getting in -- though instead of SBO or Daisy, for 1 meter you can do a custom super yourself for more creativity & expression, not to mention DHCs/team dynamics. Comboing into it would be a blast. And fun as in being excited about trying something different each time you play. unironically one of my wishes for the year is to try this. pretty please devs of the gods.
this is a little similar to what i wanted to get at earlier (ill elaborate to u eventually). personally, i think itd be really cool if sing was moved to qcf throw and costed both charges(it uses the tail and head in the animation!!), but had insane hitstop and left you ~+15-20. it would allow her to be less meter dependant, at the cost of making sing harder to get. it would be a sick whiff punish tool, too!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nuuance

Nuuance

Level 51 Pastrymancer
Joined
Sep 4, 2013
Messages
820
Reaction score
368
Points
63
Location
Toronto
Website
youtube.com
Steam
Nuuance
Squigly Eliza
you can delay ur mix of m dive, or with that change, use l for an empty land for an even faster reset than u can get currently

I somehow missed your initial post! so ill give my thoughts now
-sbo damage increase would be very unnessecary, and i kind of like how it does more chip than damage at max scaling. i wouldnt mind a buff here, tho
-uncharged specials would be really neat! i know theyd change her design a bit, but i think theyd only make her more interesting
-in terms of incentivizing kick charge, one small thing i think they could do is increase the forward movement on stancel so it has confirm/combo utility over the punch variant
-id prefer if tag in delay incomings, like bella dynamo. tagging into squig shouldnt be easy since sbo is so good, but being minus after kill > tag is reaaaaal anoyinng
-stage 2 seria cancels are jank, dont want it. as it is now, stancels work really well and naturally with chain rules
-mortis could be -4 yea
-i forgot jmp hitbox buff! its a really cool normal, and i think its very underutilized, but the hitbox is so hard to use

and finally for nuuances last reply

this is a little similar to what i wanted to get at earlier (ill elaborate to u eventually). personally, i think itd be really cool if sing was moved to qcf throw and costed both charges(it uses the tail and head in the animation!!), but had insane hitstop and left you ~+15-20. it would allow her to be less meter dependant, at the cost of making sing harder to get. it would be a sick whiff punish tool, too!

- passive: never really found myself wanting for more forward movement in strings as ive felt great about confirms/strings in most instances & havent thought about it till now. Sounds interesting though
- tag-in: i hear you. dont wanna make a lot faster or easy. just sped up enough to combo into if we get a decent bounce or long incapacitation (eliza divekick/double high bounce H Luger, crumple moves) & space properly as well as making fast *enough* so incoming allows enough time to switch. And the movement behaviour of course equally. nothing complicated & think thats fair & reasonable. in order to fit any scenario itd have to be quicked a tad either way so i feel like we're saying more or less same thing. But i agree, you should have to work to set it up.
- j.mp: definitely. i understand if people think its fine. As an air stall or occasional 1/100 mix it's actually not as bad as i thought. But yeah it's disregarded in general.

I think there should be an *option* for it to eat both charges! As expanded utility, but not by default. generally primary mechanics in sg need light strat to use often, but needing both charges for meterless CS is a lot (for base use). On top of that both charges get used up after, limiting routes noticeably. Most combos use charge moves in beginning or end & neither would then be available. I like the option of using centerstage w/the frame data it has now as it manipulates space ending slightly negative...you cant get anything off it itself unless you got meter. that form at least should stay since this was what her game revolves around (fairly-ish accessible CS). But I do think more for expanded player expression is a great idea
 
Last edited:

Skrem

New Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2022
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Squigly Cerebella Unknown
The walk charge animation of kick have a hitbox per jump, idk for fun and maybe more easier to get the kick charge.
asdvq.png