Valentine special priority

[Ikkisoad]

I don't wanna flood beta discussion with more Val priority stuff, so I'm creating this thread to know what Val players think about it. Please lets discuss so we can make it better for everyone? somehow

As I said here, I do think Grounded priority should be K>P, and saying "it is easy to do assist~bypass" doesn't really help cause you can do the same with dead cross. And the way it currently is, depending on the assist, 5HP confirms into bypass is just not something practical. Also depending on the assist you can't just sacrifice some damage, cause only HBypass combos into them, and doing dead cross will give you nothing.

With grounded K>P a lot of assists routes would be easier to perform, and I think it is fair to make the best conversion option easier to perform while the low risk one needs you to call assist a little bit earlier. I think Painwheel is an interesting example, cause she too has projectile option and a punishable on block but that is also her best combo tool with the same input of , but she has Buer as priority which I think is amazing.

I wouldn't mind air P>K priority cause doing bypass+assist isn't really useful in neutral nor in combos.

 

[Lex]

The neutral option (Dead Cross + assist) *should* be easier to do than the combo one because neutral is a far more stressful/hectic/scrambly environment. Combos are a controlled environment where there's a lot more leeway and less risk to attempting difficult options (that's why stuff like 1-2f links, Fortune crLK loops, etc can be considered practical while you wouldn't consider an anti-air that loses outside a 3-5f window practical). Neutral is much higher risk (especially for special+assist inputs) which is why you want the important neutral tools to be as easy as possible to do.

For most assists, the window for sHP, H Bypass~assist is pretty generous and L/M Bypass work just fine, there's only a couple assists where you have to use H Bypass and it's a tight window (A-train is the only one I know about but I wouldn't be that suprised if there's a couple more). You also always have the option of just doing an easier combo. It's pretty in keeping with SG's design philosophy that combos can be difficult if they aren't core to a character while your actual tools are easy to use.

Dead Cross + assist is also used in more situations than Bypass + assist as it is used in neutral as a poke, in blockstrings and for conversions.
Dead Cross + assist is also just as useful if not more so as a conversion tool than Bypass imo, I disagree with saying that Bypass is the best conversion tool of the two.

For air priority, I think it should be P>K again cus Dead Cross + assist is a better neutral tool than Bypass + assist and if you accidentally get Bypass + assist in the air then you're probably going to get happy birthday'd (also applies for accidental ground bypass + assist fwiw).

 

[tossle]

I'd prefer P as priority for both ground and air, for very similar reasons to Lexs'. My ground game is simply much more comfortable knowing I can easily and consistently get dead cross when I want it, and I think ease of access to the lower risk option is generally a better design choice when the harder stuff is in line with an inherently more risky option. I've also frankly never had an issue doing sHP bypass+assist, I'm actually pretty curious about what assists absolutely need H bypass in the first string like that to work at all? If it's a minority of assist options then I don't want to retread why we even got K air priority; the intention of easing some combo options ended up feeling worse as a whole, and even ended up being pretty underused, from what I recall.

Speaking of, seems pretty universal that air K priority ain't great! The amount of times it's gotten me a whiffed bypass into eating a delightful HCH combo has absolutely solidified how much I would prefer P again, and that was even while I was using beam assist.