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Skullgirls PC Beta Updates Discussion

Zidiane said:
Solo buff outta left field. I don't like that it's just half, only because it'll visually be weird to still have red life left if you're healing red life.
It's not like that. Red life decreases and health increases until there is no more red life. Just try it in training mode.
 
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zeknife said:
j.HK is like big bands one good air normal though
Surely being mostly non-special or super cancelable, causing a wall bounce, and being punishable on block and whiff is enough to warrant an exception

I was gonna type this out longer, but yeah pretty much this. Like, the way I see it, BB's jHK really isn't good enough to warrant it being nerfed to go from "occassionally/rarely useful in neutral" to "nigh useless in neutral". It probably wouldn't make him too much worse or anything, but it feels like a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. I think making it a combo-only button would be really boring instead of the high-risk/high-reward that it is now.

I'd still say jLK is a good/great tool for BB, but it doesn't cover everything so giving him less options doesn't make much sense.
 
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Luweewu said:
It's not like that. Red life decreases and health increases until there is no more red life. Just try it in training mode.
Oh, well that's fine then. I used to have the excuse of "Steam's not installed" as why I didn't explore these changes, but I installed yesterday.
 
guitalex2007 said:
Prejump frames don't tell me if it will cross up.

So what exactly will help you tell if Filia is going to do super jump airdash j.LK(non crossup) or super jump airdash j.HK(crossup) in this experiment?

What I'm saying, is that the nerf stops easier faster j.HK crossups. It doesn't remove crossup j.HK crossups as an option, since they are still doable with superjump airdash j.HK. The only thing this change does is making them -slightly- harder to do, and -slightly- easier to react to the fact that a high is coming (at that point you quickly guess left-right, or have pre-determined that IF they're doing a high they're gonna do a left-right this time)
 
I dont know filia well enough to test this out. But i do know that forcing filia to superjump airdash j.hk for a crossup is better than her being able to do it from regular iad. The superjump version hits higher and therefor might hit airborn characters who can then tech out. So thats another option... Upback, whereas upback against current airdash j.hk isnt doable, so filia gets a super easy high/low/high crossup/throw mixup where every option hits at near the same time and some are super safe on block and lend themselves to further mixup opportunities on block.


-edit

Also, super jump j.hk will have less frame advantage and assists cant be called until filia lands or if she called them before she jumped, which would decrease the lockdown time at least a little bit rather than her being able to call just as she does her j.hk.
 
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dragonos451 said:
I don't get it. What changed exactly to make this possible?

In the beta Filia's j.HK causes her to lose all of her dash jump momentum almost instantly. So dash jump j.HK is roughly the same as normal jump forward j.HK, IE it doesn't crossup.
 
Jason said:
In the beta Filia's j.HK causes her to lose all of her dash jump momentum almost instantly.

Not quite, she still retains dash jump j.HK momentum if you do it far away from the opponent. It feels like there's an invisible wall coming vertically from the other character though, with no idea what it actually is.
 
Zidiane said:
Oh, well that's fine then. I used to have the excuse of "Steam's not installed" as why I didn't explore these changes, but I installed yesterday.
Basically it goes from this:
uY4tKGy.jpg


to this:
ubULNJm.jpg


at 5 health per frame (300 health per second) while not in hitstun/blockstun
 
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FYI - If Filia does any of her normals xx Ringlet there's still a ~12? frame gap which is big enough to just throw her. So ending blockstrings with Ringlet is still somewhat of a risk.
 
CaioLugon said:
big band's j.lk is one of the best air normals in the game tho

Yeah, it is, which is why I put down my statement there, but it doesn't really have that much horizontal reach to play air-to-air except from up close. Cymbals doesn't really cover the same area either.
 
Pretty sure launcher into jHK counts as chained into.
 
Jason said:
FYI - If Filia does any of her normals xx Ringlet there's still a ~12? frame gap which is big enough to just throw her. So ending blockstrings with Ringlet is still somewhat of a risk.
Filias st.hk is throw invulnerable i believe on frame 1. So if you try to throw filia after blocking her cr.mk because you expect her to ringlet cancel, she can just cancel into st.hk to blow up your throw attempt.

It isnt perfect, but it makes filia low on block even better than it currently is and filia never even has to go low as it is right now. She can just high high high and mix in throws. But now she will be able to go low with a buff and still go high and be safe. She will have gaps and thats about it.
 
Mr. X said:
Pretty sure launcher into jHK counts as chained into.


Ips distinguishes them. Launch into a tracked normal at stage 5 will cause ips to kick in. So as far as ips is concerned this isnt a chain.
 
Dime_x said:
Ips distinguishes them. Launch into a tracked normal at stage 5 will cause ips to kick in. So as far as ips is concerned this isnt a chain.
I mean for the untechable or techable knockdown jHK change.
 
Jason said:
FYI - If Filia does any of her normals xx Ringlet there's still a ~12? frame gap which is big enough to just throw her. So ending blockstrings with Ringlet is still somewhat of a risk.

s.HP/s.MK, hold up j.HK beats throw. s.HP/c.HP/s.MK xx L Ringlet beats everything that isn't a throw, or a super.
 
- Ground techs remove half your undizzy, not all of it.
- Undizzy drains slightly slower the lower it is.
- Filia's Ringlet Spike won't go offscreen in the corner, and is +/-0 on block instead of negative. Startup is still slow.
- Filia's j.HK causes techable knockdown if not chained into.

I'm fine with these. Ringlet change is the most welcome.

- After 60f of not being in hitstun or blockstun, Solo characters begin healing up to 1/2 of their remaining red life. Does not apply to Marie, does not apply to the last character of a Duo or Trio. (I'd rather have it convert to meter, but let's try this first since meter is very strange to see.)

60f seems too early for recovery to start.

- If you have undizzy left, your Lv1 supers are like Sing->SBO: blockable after the flash IF the opponent was not committed to any action (dashing, attacking, etc). Lv3s/Lv5s remain the same. Maybe this reduces the usefulness of mashed Lv1s, without otherwise affecting them at neutral?

My kneejerk reaction is "I don't like this because it makes it inconsistent." but, all it does is allow someone to not have to block when point blank vs someone with undizzy if they weren't already hitting a button (i.e. came right out of a combo and for a bit after). But, I'm not sure I like the idea of nerfing defense because offense is pretty strong.

What I really want to know is: Why is forward dashing a "committed action" when you can block during it like how you can block during jump forward (after startup, of course) for the purposes of things that work like lv2 Sing > Opera. I don't know why that blockable state has an exception like that.

- Filia's j.HK is harder/impossible to get an ambiguous crossup with by dash-jumping forward. Should not affect combos or most other uses of j.HK except trying for crossups.

Haaaaaaaaaaaaaate this change. I think I'd accept it if this only affected dash-jump forward, but the IAD momenum stop really kills it. You have to either time an IAD perfectly or you have to sj.IAD j.HK to get it reliably. Just seems like it's being made harder to do for no reason. It feels wrong not being able to IAD j.HK crossup. I think IAD j.HK crossup is valid because it uses your airdash so you can't do extra crossup stuff like you can from dash jump.

Unrelated complaints
And on the topic of "ambiguous crossups" Val j.HP ambiguous crossup should also be nerfed.
And on the topic of nerfing things, Double j.HP and hornet bomber should have hurtboxes added to the hitboxes.
 
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Mr. X said:
I mean for the untechable or techable knockdown jHK change.


Oh ok. Well for parasoul it still counts. She has to air chain to her jhp if she doesnt want it to become techable... And I'm not sure but i think fortune jhk works the same way.
 
ClarenceMage said:
s.HP/s.MK, hold up j.HK beats throw. s.HP/c.HP/s.MK xx L Ringlet beats everything that isn't a throw, or a super.

Yes but s.HP is safe on block (mostly) and s.MK is also already safe on block... so I don't see how that changes anything. Hell s.MK into Ringlet only gets you one extra frame of advantage. I have no idea why you'd want to do s.MK xx Ringlet and introduce a potential hole into your offense that wasn't there to begin with.
 
Jason said:
Yes but s.HP is safe on block (mostly) and s.MK is also already safe on block... so I don't see how that changes anything. Hell s.MK into Ringlet only gets you one extra frame of advantage. I have no idea why you'd want to do s.MK xx Ringlet and introduce a potential hole into your offense that wasn't there to begin with.

s.HP and s.MK are both negative, and at negatives your opponent could give you low/throw mixup. Blocking low opens you up to throws, upbacking/throwing opens you up to lows.

Though you are right about the s.MK thing. s.MK c.LP should pretty much be your go-to. But s.MK Ringlet is still an option.
 
ClarenceMage said:
s.HP and s.MK are both negative, and at negatives your opponent could give you low/throw mixup. Blocking low opens you up to throws, upbacking/throwing opens you up to lows.

Though you are right about the s.MK thing. s.MK c.LP should pretty much be your go-to. But s.MK Ringlet is still an option.

Filia's s.LP is 5 frames so anybody who's not Filia or Fortune is still can't press buttons even if Filia is at -1. If filia does s.MK, s.LP and you try to throw you get counterhit.
 
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Dime_x said:
Oh ok. Well for parasoul it still counts. She has to air chain to her jhp if she doesnt want it to become techable... And I'm not sure but i think fortune jhk works the same way.
You are probably right, cant test.
 
Recovering health seems really good especially with moves that generate lots of red health (command grabs)

Though I kinda wanted to a guard burst of sorts for solos (kinda like an alpha counter)

I do like the undizzy change on ground techs makes tech chases less good and forces more resets for the attacking player imo
 
Holy shit Solo ratio got thrown a bone? Is it my birthday?

*Reads Filia J HK nerf*

Oh well there is always that one disappointing gift.
 
Filia's IAD J.HK is bs and you guys know that lol. Though can't she still do iad j.lk j.hk and have the same results?

Either way, the change may or may not be necessary if raw j.hk becomes techable like parasouls j.hp.

The solo thing is pretty cool, though I don't know how I feel about a solo being able to heal while comboing me if that's the case.( I can't hop on beta to find out myself atm)

I do think solo players deserve something like this, or an alpha counter lol. But if it ends up being too good which I don't think it will but idk, maybe give me the option to use snaps against solo's to take away their red health.
 
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if you used J.lk ->j.HK would it still cross up?
 
I've had it where j.lk didn't cross me up but then the j.hk crossed me up right after, and times where it just straight up crossed me up. idk
 
dekillsage said:
But if it ends up being too good which I don't think it will but idk, maybe give me the option to use snaps against solo's to take away their red health.
Loving this idea for some reason.

Less free than just throwing like on SFxT.
 
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dekillsage said:
Filia's IAD J.HK is bs and you guys know that lol. Though can't she still do iad j.lk j.hk and have the same results?

Either way, the change may or may not be necessary if raw j.hk becomes techable like parasouls j.hp.

The solo thing is pretty cool, though I don't know how I feel about a solo being able to heal while comboing me if that's the case.( I can't hop on beta to find out myself atm)

I do think solo players deserve something like this, or an alpha counter lol. But if it ends up being too good which I don't think it will but idk, maybe give me the option to use snaps against solo's to take away their red health.
if raw j hk becomes techable she loses normal instant overhead as well
 
worldjem said:
It feels wrong not being able to IAD j.HK crossup. I think IAD j.HK crossup is valid because it uses your airdash so you can't do extra crossup stuff like you can from dash jump.

U
this. I'm half okay with dash jump being removed (I will miss it dearly obviously) but iad jhk should still work I feel. Squigly even still gets to dodge it since only the dash jump version works on her anyways.
 
WarpedEcho said:
if raw j hk becomes techable she loses normal instant overhead as well
It's techable if the opponent is in the air.. which is rarely the case after 9HK.

- Undizzy drains slightly slower the lower it is.
Isn't this backwards? Reducing the use of early resets, while not affecting 50 hit > Reset? I'd think it would make more sense to have it the other way round?

- Filia's j.HK is harder/impossible to get an ambiguous crossup with by dash-jumping forward, and causes techable knockdown if not chained into. Should not affect combos or most other uses of j.HK except trying for crossups.
I can't play the game atm, how well does 9PP-HK work? Not at all? Have to delay the j.HK and let the dash run for a bit? Depends on opponent?
 
It's pretty much not feasible to time a normal jump IAD HK to hit crossup, it feels like there's something stopping it even when you try to hit the sweet spot it "should" work.

The sj IAD HK crossup I never bothered to do before works fine though and isn't hard at all, still hits crouchers. I imagine Mike might want to nerf that too if nj IAD HK isn't OK (fast crossup overhead that avoids a ton of reversals) if he can find a way that doesn't screw up a bunch of other things.
 
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the problem with j.hk being techable is that everyone will just jump and take the j.hk and tech away. hell I do that now where its not techable to throw some of the filia's off of their confirms but eh

it does make her lows better so like, its not the end of the world but I know as a Filia player you want to play as braindead as possible once you've won neutral
 
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IsaVulpes said:
It's techable if the opponent is in the air.. which is rarely the case after 9HK.
I though sage meant like it acts like an air sweep or something even if it hit grounded. 9pp jhk diesn't work. 29pp jhk does, but is not as plus, making the followup to combo a little stricter
 
I'm fine I guess with the other changes for the most part, but if it's solo vs solo, does the regen still apply?
 
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