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Squigly Daisy Pusher

GrunkleBarlowe

Formerly Dolfy
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Ms. Fortune Squigly Double
Daisy pusher feels really underwhelming.

I do think it needs to stay as a situational reversal tool (especially since we can properly PBGC Seria Draugen Punch now), but it is really frustrating that it can be raw tagged out of. It's really neat that we can add hitstop to it with charge, though when you do that it's not exactly a reversal since you can be hit during the stance charge.

Even considering the fact you can raw tag from a normal, Daisy Pusher is really gimped by the fact that characters can cancel whiffed special moves & normals into supers (and raw tags in the case of normals).

Here are the primary situations where I would use chargeless daisy pusher:
- Catching low height Parasoul jump ins (if it's too high she can cancel into air tear and do j.mk, thanks severin)
- Catching non j.hp bella jump ins
- Catching double jump ins
- When big band players are obviously mashing
- If for some reason I knew they were going to do a throw or special move at point blank
- If they clearly had no idea you could cancel normals into raw tag and are playing a character with no special/super that escapes it

Characters and daisy pusher:
Ground normals can be cancelled into raw tag.
Filia: Can air gregor if she has meter, and can use hairball if it's just a whiffed normal.
Double: Car with meter (sometimes Daisy Pusher recovers first though), can sometimes use barrel in the air to delay her fall a bit if she's really high up.
Painwheel: Fly, I think thresher works with meter.
Parasoul: Tear toss in the air, otherwise doesn't have a way out of it. She and double are the main characters I find it very effective against.
Eliza: Have not seen her get out of it in the air before, so can't say.
Big Band: Cymbal Clash works in the air sometimes, but otherwise this is also a character it is effective against.
Fukua: Air super, technically drill super can get out of it recovers a little slower than daisy pusher does.

I can't remember all of the other interactions at the top of my head.

My feeling is that Daisy Pusher needs something; I would like to make it a more situational tool, but a better one. Currently it feels like a "poor everything" reversal, when it could be something like a "great anti-air punish but not good on the grond". Chargeless daisy pusher definitely should not gain hitstop of any kind, but I would like to see it function as a better anti air punish (similar to Hakan's Ultra 2 in SF4). Do you feel this is worth experimenting with @Mike_Z ? What do other squigly players feel? @Yaya @Bit_Strife @NeonNightRider @guitalex2007
 
I hate that you can raw tag an obvious normal punish. Not sure how that could be fixed or if it even needs to be fixed.

I'm ok with it otherwise.
 
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I hate that you can raw tag an obvious normal punish. Not sure how that could be fixed
That's my main/only issue with it as well and could get fixed in a patchysketchy way by just locking the opponent out from tagging for eg 10f after Daisy Pusher superflash.
I suggested that a good while ago though and Mike never did anything, so I figure he doesn't want that :P

Other than that, I don't really have any notable ideas (especially few which wouldn't make Daisy really really really good, and I don't really feel like Squigly needs any further buffs)
 
(especially few which wouldn't make Daisy really really really good, and I don't really feel like Squigly needs any further buffs)
Yeah. The main goal of my idea is to make Daisy Pushers role a little more defined. With her last few buffs, Squigly has a really good assortment of situational tools, but daisy pusher kind of feels like an awful multi-purpose tool right now.
 
just
It's never "just" anything. I might even agree, but it's not easy either way.

Then there's the whole "Well, if you know they're gonna either tag or get hit you can Daisy to force a tag and then DHC and kill them for it, like you do with some supers in MvC2" but I don't presume to imply yomi on anyone's part.
 
It's never "just" anything. I might even agree, but it's not easy either way.

Then there's the whole "Well, if you know they're gonna either tag or get hit you can Daisy to force a tag and then DHC and kill them for it, like you do with some supers in MvC2" but I don't presume to imply yomi on anyone's part.
I've used Daisy Pusher as a DHC-Reversal engine (Car in my case) a few times, but Opera is almost always a better option for this and outclasses daisy pusher even for this use.
 
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I immediately remember the dekillsage bullshit setup with daisy pusher and excellabella assist (and A-Train in theory as well I guess) If you jump, assist catches you. If you sit, daisy pusher gets you. The only universal escape from the setup was raw tag. Some select characters can escape with invincible moves, but those were few and far between considering how long daisy pusher stays out for.
 
Its a cool tool but its not a reversal in any way. its a hard read to use it as an anti air and it costs you 1 bar when you can just try to meet them in the air with j.lk or DP their jump in since you can get a combo off it pretty easily. Its there for some amazing sing daisy pusher setups that i have been messing around with. Its not terrible and I dont think you can really do anything to it to make it better. Its fine just dont use it as a reversal, use DP. Not being able to get people off you with no charge kinda stinks. I have to alpha counter Dynamo or something.
 
One thing that is easy would be to increase the opponent's hitstop by 1 if they are attacking, which would mean that at neutral a tag or invincible move still works to get out, but if you are going to counterhit something they can't escape. I'm not sure if this has any other side effects I can't think of, but I'm also not sure if giving her that is too much. We can try it.
 
I immediately remember the dekillsage bullshit setup with daisy pusher and excellabella assist (and A-Train in theory as well I guess) If you jump, assist catches you. If you sit, daisy pusher gets you. The only universal escape from the setup was raw tag. Some select characters can escape with invincible moves, but those were few and far between considering how long daisy pusher stays out for.

This setup was garbage and I talk about it here.
 
One thing that is easy would be to increase the opponent's hitstop by 1 if they are attacking, which would mean that at neutral a tag or invincible move still works to get out, but if you are going to counterhit something they can't escape. I'm not sure if this has any other side effects I can't think of, but I'm also not sure if giving her that is too much. We can try it.
This sounds like fun. Thanks mike!
 
I appreciate this experiment because every time I try and Daisy Pusher somebody and then get hit by Double raw tag I feel really bad about myself.
 
<Domo> why does squig need buffs
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<Skarmand> Holy fuck if she gets a 1 bar reliable reversal on top of Dragon punch
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<sev> also that change is oaisdjgaoi
<sev> fuck off
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<Yaya> yeah these are getting a bit out of hand
<Yaya> Squigly was already good now she's amazing
 
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"Hey man, what if Daisy Pusher caught opponents landing from Air-to-Ground in their mid jump sequence? This way they can't simply hop or jump after the attack animation to avoid it. It's almost like falling into a hole if you think about it.."
-A friend of mine
 
I don't mind that you can jump out of daisy pusher if you empty jump. It's just the "I saw you doing something but you still got to mash out of my reversal" that's irritating. I mean, half the point of empty jumps are to bait out something and leave you free to counterhit.
 
(I mean I know that's off topic but number of Vals in top 8 at NEC - zero. Not sure how many entered the tournament but still.)

I don't think it's unreasonable Daisy be a good reversal if the opponent committed to something, so I'm willing to try it.
 
We had like 3 or 4 val players at NEC.
Slightly less off topic, how many Squigly players did we have? Just one? And he got top 8? Hmm.
 
Slightly less off topic, how many Squigly players did we have? Just one? And he got top 8? Hmm.

3-4
 
just wanted to comment on the Fukua means of getting out.

You can also air hadouken which has two purposes:
1. Decreases your fall speed and moves you horizontally
2. Knocks squig out of Daisy Pusher

So what I'm trying to say is don't use daisy pusher on Fukua EVER
 
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There was another Squigly player that I fought my first round, but that's the only other Squigly player I saw there.

For Valentine, there was outlaw_spike, cloudking, shademoneh, and omnisschythe.

I was also the only fortune in top 8 so @KhaosMuffins can't say there were no fortunes in top 8
 
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People are complaining about a 1 meter reversal that leads into combos?

Have you guys not looked at like half of the roster's supers?
 
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Played around 10 matches today against Cybersaiko. Didnt seem to terrible. When you see someone jab it actually punishes like you think it would. Also Its really matchup dependent because vals will be in the air a lot same with filia. Against double it seems crazy good.
Mashing is always bad. but its not as bad.
still easy to bait. reset her in the air and you might get grabbed i guess.
you cant do something silly like dynamo catheads and make it safe so its still risky as hell.
mash DP if you have the charge instead. less risk because on block you can cancel into opera and make it safe unless you are in the air.

Thats my thoughts on the 10~ games I played.