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Skullgirls Encore Edition Tiers and Matchups Discussion Thread: The Revengeance

*hugs Double* it's okay... they just don't understand... ;w;
Double: ... *tries not to cry* ... *cries a lot* ;_;
Ms. Fortune: >w> <w< Wheel of Fortune is best assist! *yells*
 
I don't play this game enough anymore to have a valid opinion on the state of the tierlist since I also don't have that many high level characters to play against. We are missing a high level fortune now that our best fortune quit. Our best peacock no longer plays. Our best Bella no longer plays, though we do have other Bella players.

I don't get to play against filia that much anymore and we also don't have any high level Eliza's to chop it up with... Amongst other characters that are generally missing from our meta right now.


But, I can say something about anchors:

IMHO double is the weakest of the 3 good anchors now:

Big band and Bella both have better assists. And both have level 3 supers that they can combo off of. Both do more damage with or without meter than double, both have much better reversals than double.

Both arguably have better aerial pokes than double, at least as far as priority is concerned.

Double lost her ridiculous assists, she still has decent assists in her bombers, but they pale in comparison to cerecopter, lock and load, h brass, and L extend.

Doubles meter dump has been nerfed, and as an anchor, spamming monster as a comeback mechanic of sorts works less well as time runs down... Which is something that every anchor will deal with to some extent on a regular basis.

Doubles still quite good though but with reference to anchors I feel like BB and Bella really do what it takes more than double, now.


Hell the amount of times BB gets a read and does some ridiculous meter dump combo and just wins games or punishes the hell out of imperfect play, makes him better than double in my mind.

I played anchor double for a year and a half/2 years. BB just feels much stronger and though I don't play against or use anchor Bella that much anymore, she still gets an edge from her oppressive priority and damage and reversal game to me at least.
 
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My Eliza isn't good enough for Dime =(

I definitely think that Big Band, Cerebella and Eliza are the top 3 anchors right now. Big Band and Bella shine on teams with a safe DHC in second especially.
 
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Tomo009 said:
My Eliza isn't good enough for Dime =(

I definitely think that Big Band, Cerebella and Eliza are the top 3 anchors right now. Big Band and Bella shine on teams with a safe DHC in second especially.


What makes you think Eliza is a good anchor? I'm genuinely curious.

As far as your Eliza not being good enough, maybe we just haven't played enough... Idk.

But yeah, I'm genuinely curious about her being a top anchor.

Her hk spiral assist leaves much to be desired from what I've seen. Her sek lockdown assist is definitely good, but takes major meter to spam. And if not spammed... Becomes less affective via underuse?

Her meter dumps seem to leave much to be desired as well? I mean sek meter dump is decent... But that's a lot of meter to be dumping to allow sek to just walk around. Or does she simply spam sek fallouts at anchor since she has more meter?


It just looks to me like she'd be as good an anchor as any other not made for anchor, anchor.

Could of course be wrong since I have no Eliza to practice against and don't really know what she does to certain extents (hence the reason why I'm not voting in the poll)
 
Eliza is easily top 5 anchor, probably top 4, just as good as Double allllmost.

She just does hella damage and doesn't really need an assist to instigate, and LV3 in a combo ooooo my lord. Hella good normals etc.

Sonic runs her anchor goodness gracious.
 
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Eliza has crazy comeback potential. There are other characters that do as well but Eliza can spend meter on avoiding having to play scary neutral situations.

There is no reason to conserve meter when you are the anchor, so you can use Sekhmet as much as you want.

She can function very well on her own when stocked up with meter, she's an anchor for when you think you might have to actually play them solo. Unlike Big Band and to an extent (though she does ok) Bella who really are more of an assist character that you can DHC into when you want to land a kill.
 
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Dreamepitaph said:
Cause fukua has better neutral and gets meter for eliza and he plays duo. that's it tho.

She doesn't need meter though its just that LV 3 helps its just icing on the cake. Please ;__;
 
I would specifically say sonic fox is a case of a good player playing a character well, not necessarily that Eliza is naturally suited to the role.

She definitely has certain aspects that can lend themselves to anchor. But EVERY character does. Even Val (level 5 reanimate)

The choice is whether those aspects make her a good anchor over other characters.

Filia is a good anchor (updo, and hairball assists, has meter dumps in Gregor xn, sets up her own mixups well. Jab into low or throw or overhead or airdash crossup, and the same mixups off of any non pushblocked iad attack.

Double Bella and BB are good anchors for reasons already known.

Certain transpositional anchors can work with the correct setup.

I don't think Eliza is TERRIBLE as an anchor, but she doesn't seem to bring anything particularly strong to the table. Comebacks are good and all, but part of being a good anchor is having an assist that is good enough to not even get to the anchor at all. I've made huge comebacks with parasoul peacock and painwheel at anchor but I don't think that that puts them in the same vein as The big 3.

But that's just my take. I could be swayed on the matter were I to be shown in game that I was wrong for whatever reasons.
 
Dime_x said:
I would specifically say sonic fox is a case of a good player playing a character well, not necessarily that Eliza is naturally suited to the role.

She definitely has certain aspects that can lend themselves to anchor. But EVERY character does. Even Val (level 5 reanimate)

The choice is whether those aspects make her a good anchor over other characters.

Filia is a good anchor (updo, and hairball assists, has meter dumps in Gregor xn, sets up her own mixups well. Jab into low or throw or overhead or airdash crossup, and the same mixups off of any non pushblocked iad attack.

Double Bella and BB are good anchors for reasons already known.

Certain transpositional anchors can work with the correct setup.

I don't think Eliza is TERRIBLE as an anchor, but she doesn't seem to bring anything particularly strong to the table. Comebacks are good and all, but part of being a good anchor is having an assist that is good enough to not even get to the anchor at all. I've made huge comebacks with parasoul peacock and painwheel at anchor but I don't think that that puts them in the same vein as The big 3.

But that's just my take. I could be swayed on the matter were I to be shown in game that I was wrong for whatever reasons.

H axe assist sets up invincible low/high/throw mixups that lead to great CH damage, can be used for big damage. H twirl deals almost 1k in chip, can be used multiple times in well timed blockstrings/block pressure to deal tons in chip, also allows a ton of time to setup a mixup on hit. M sek assist is annoying and once active must be respected, as well as every mixup while being blocked. Divekick is an overhead, decent AA assist, and allows relatively easy confirms on hit. Also if the hit tradesit doesn't hurt Eliza which is really good.
Her assists are pretty great (the meter usage is the only 'real' downside).

Her pressure, if done intelligently, is pretty safe and her rewards for a hit are pretty great. Her defense while alone are not BB level, but she has a great AA in s.mp to divekick.

Ease of confirm, great reaching normals, and her maneuverability as an Air dash character combine into a really solid character by herself.
 
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S: Peacock, Fukua, Filia
A: Cerebella, Parasoul, Eliza
B: Valentine, Fortune, Painwheel
C: Double, Squigly, Big Band


Beowulf IDK-_-? Maybe A-/B+ ?
 
i don't think there's an S tier in this game tbh

here's mine:
A+:Peacock,Eliza,Val
A:Filia, Fortune, Bella,Fukua,Parasoul, Painwheel,Fortune(?),Beowulf(TOO EARLY TO TELL)
B+,Squigly,Big Band
C:Double

This is arguable as usual and some characters may bump up but i feel that the original 8 got toned down to fair while the newer characters have very dumb things that you have to deal with at the moment. This pertains to their Features as a character.
 
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I use Eliza anchor solely for Butcher Blade being absolutely amazing for oki since you pretty much can't contest it with a reversal.
 
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Since anchors often come in with (or can reach) 5 bars, Double can OUTRIGHT KILL YOU as an anchor with one touch, anywhere, off c.LK or throw. NO other character can do that (anymore, thanks @SonicFox5000 :^) though Big Band is closest. And you can even build half a bar back while doing it.
She'll never be a bad anchor. She has safe left/rights, safe high/lows, Monster Beast of Gehenna, a good reversal, an uncontestable super, j.HK pressure, and Catheads.

RemiKz said:
I use Eliza anchor solely for Butcher Blade being absolutely amazing for oki since you pretty much can't contest it with a reversal.
PBGC throw/snap is 100% free though, since she can't return on block and PBGCing any hit of Blade puts them at more advantage than just blocking it. And if you axe on reaction to the pushblock they just end up being able to punish the axe instead.
 
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For what it's worth, my list would look a ton like DreamEpitaph's (I'm considering the whole package in a team ie no solos or my list would be quite different).

Some caveats/changes:
I think there was a definite S tier in the form of Peacock, but with the changes, I think it remains to be seen where she ends up.
I'm waiting on Filia as well.
I don't think Double is a full tier weaker than BB.
 
Mike_Z said:
PBGC throw/snap is 100% free though, since she can't return on block and PBGCing any hit of Blade puts them at more advantage than just blocking it. And if you axe on reaction to the pushblock they just end up being able to punish the axe instead.

I'm not sure I understand what your rebuttal is. On a hard knockdown, I typically will go for a mixup while simultaneously calling butcher's blade. PBGC doesn't even come into play at this point. It'll beat out most reversal attempts because of the super armor on sekhmet. I also use it BECAUSE it's so good at baiting out PBGC attempts since everyone always wants to do it.
 
Mike has done a really good job making every character have their own unique niche, it's very hard to make a tier list. I think a better way to do it would be "what are the top 10 best teams that we know of" or "what characters have synergy together" or "what are the best assists" or "what are the pros and cons of each character." It's a lot more complicated but it takes into account more of the complexities.

For instance I see big band at the bottom of a lot of lists but he is an amazing anchor and his assists are versatile as hell, I really don't think he belongs at the bottom when you take in to account the specific role he fills.
 
A: Squigly, Big Band, Ms Fortune, Painwheel, Filia, Cerebella, Valentine, Parasoul, Double, Fukua

A+: Eliza, Peacock

Too early for Beowulf.

Disregard the order I put the characters in.
 
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Also, how am I supposed to use Beast of Gehenna? I mostly end up using it for combo/dhc purposes. What am I missing.
 
CaioLugon said:
A: Squigly, Big Band, Ms Fortune, Painwheel, Filia, Cerebella, Valentine, Parasoul, Double, Fukua

A+: Eliza, Peacock

Too early for Beowulf.


... Anytime someone has a controversial stance I ask them to explain themselves, if only so that I might be able to learn something.

Pls explain squigly in front (or third best actually) and why you think she belongs there? I particularly care since I'm trying to pick her up right now but having a hard time of it.
 
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RemiKz said:
Also, how am I supposed to use Beast of Gehenna? I mostly end up using it for combo/dhc purposes. What am I missing.
Ducks been spamming it in one or 2 month old vids or so. Basically run away call the beast, then turtle up behind it with Lugers and j.hk and try to take the enemy on around the beast.

Was Dhoppler versus duck iirc.
 
Dime_x said:
Ducks been spamming it in one or 2 month old vids or so. Basically run away call the beast, then turtle up behind it with Lugers and j.hk and try to take the enemy on around the beast.

Was Dhoppler versus duck iirc.
And what if the opponent just doesn't approach it? Luger and j.HK don't seem like they would harass anyone enough for them to just not wait it out and let the super go to waste. Maybe if you had them against a wall and you placed it near them, but aside from that, I feel like I'm wasting meter.
 
Dime_x said:
... Anytime someone has a controversial stance I ask them to explain themselves, if only so that I might be able to learn something.

Pls explain squigly in front (or third best actually) and why you think she belongs there? I particularly care since I'm trying to pick her up right now but having a hard time of it.
Oh I just put them in the character select screen order, sorry that wasn't clear.
 
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RemiKz said:
I'm not sure I understand what your rebuttal is. On a hard knockdown, I typically will go for a mixup while simultaneously calling butcher's blade. PBGC doesn't even come into play at this point. It'll beat out most reversal attempts because of the super armor on sekhmet. I also use it BECAUSE it's so good at baiting out PBGC attempts since everyone always wants to do it.
Sounded like Mike was talking about point Butcher's Blade while you were talking about assist Butcher's Blade.

Also why do people keep coming into the tier list thread to talk about why this game is magically exempt from having a tier list? Every VS game has had a tier list in some form, don't discourage the discussion. :(
 
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Spencer said:
I think there was a definite S tier in the form of Peacock, but with the changes, I think it remains to be seen where she ends up.
As someone who played against Magneto, Cable, Sentinel, Chun, Bison, Testament, Millia, and Eddie...I really REALLY feel like there is no S-tier in SG. A+ maaaaaaybe but even then not so much.

RemiKz said:
I'm not sure I understand what your rebuttal is.
I misread your "I use Eliza anchor solely for Butcher's Blade", since you didn't say "assist" and did say "anchor".
Though Blade is a mid with lots and LOTS of hitstop, so it gives you around 90f of absolute guard when pushblocked. It's a pretty poor okizeme tool aside from limiting reversals, since you can guarantee the opponent's point is completely unable to hit you as soon as you block 1 hit of it...
 
RemiKz said:
And what if the opponent just doesn't approach it? Luger and j.HK don't seem like they would harass anyone enough for them to just not wait it out and let the super go to waste. Maybe if you had them against a wall and you placed it near them, but aside from that, I feel like I'm wasting meter.


I don't use it like duck was using it... But my guess is this:

Beast is out, opponent doesn't have the life lead. Ok so they now have to approach.

And then the other option:

Beast is out, opponent has life lead. If the opponent won't approach beast then there space is effectively reduced... And it's harder to defend a smaller amount of space. So now double can camp around the super and do the old 3 way mixup of will I approach, or won't I approach, and if I approach will I attack or not.

I'm not saying that it's GREAT. But it was a different take on the super that I haven't seen yet. And his opponent got up hit by it multiple times because there space was either restricted making duck able to easier go offensive against them, or they simply forgot that it was there and got hit, or they baited it on block and duck was able to use it as sort of an assist in said cases using its blockstun to get mixups and pressure.


That's how I saw it being used, as I said I don't use it that way... Then again I don't use double anymore either so...
 
And the best double is??? Sage says he's the best double and i wasnt around for the era of when he played double seriously. She doesnt seem terrible but when she's fighting against a team....i feel like she justs......dies? Dunno how to think of double other than she kinda justs dies
 
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@Mike_Z

I was talking relatively. I just meant that old Peacock was the best, not that she was necessarily heads above the rest. There really isn't a wide margin between top and bottom in this game. Especially compared to some other fighters.

@Dreamepitaph

Solo she definitely weak (though I've played against more than one solo Double who, if they get a life lead, just turtle up and become very hard to approach). But she has a solid assist and catheads which allows her to never come into a rue neutral. I think she's weak compared to most if the cast, but she has a place on literally every team. Krackatoa was doing filthy things with her slide as an assist.
 
Dreamepitaph said:
And the best double is??? Sage says he's the best double and i wasnt around for the era of when he played double seriously. She doesnt seem terrible but when she's fighting against a team....i feel like she justs......dies? Dunno how to think of double other than she kinda justs dies


Best double ever is probably sage. After that ducks double was always innovative as well, and negus used to main her on point.

Small time runner ups are probably viro iirc and most of Australia, since Australia has been doubling it up for years now.
 
Dime_x said:
most of Australia, since Australia has been doubling it up for years now.
Well... outside of Europe, everyone ever plays/played Double

E: Read: Is most of Australia better (at Double) than, uh,
Uzu, Killjoy, Sanger, Warped Echo, Heropon, cloudking, Keninblack, Hilary, Luxadeguy, Dolfinh, blabla;
.. and most of these are just recent Double players, if you dig for a longer while in the SDE/SQG archives the list becomes longer than the SH post character limit
 
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Sage/Me/Winnie/Sev/Duck in any order.

Sage doesn't play her much anymore and neither does Winnie, but if were going by history these are the 5.
 
IsaVulpes said:
Well... outside of Europe, everyone ever plays/played Double

E: Read: Is most of Australia better (at Double) than, uh,
Uzu, Killjoy, Sanger, Warped Echo, Heropon, cloudking, Keninblack, Hilary, Luxadeguy, Dolfinh, blabla;
.. and most of these are just recent Double players, if you dig for a longer while in the SDE/SQG archives the list becomes longer than the SH post character limit


Having never heard of most of those players doubles... I don't know. What I can say is I think I have a decent double, and my double is the weakest in Australia, yet my double went well against most people I played at evo... Years ago.

And you know, it's just an opinion :)
 
Just gonna post so people can put their tier lists in the poll. See my sig.
Will comment on things later.
 
My tier list:
SSS+: Robo-Fortune

F-: All the other meat bags
 
Dime_x said:
Having never heard of most of those players doubles... I don't know. What I can say is I think I have a decent double, and my double is the weakest in Australia, yet my double went well against most people I played at evo... Years ago.

And you know, it's just an opinion :)

The SDE 1 meter macro catheads double?
 
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Dreamepitaph said:
i don't think there's an S tier in this game tbh

here's mine:
A+:Peacock,Eliza,Val
A:Filia, Fortune, Bella,Fukua,Parasoul, Painwheel,Fortune(?),Beowulf(TOO EARLY TO TELL)
B+,Squigly,Big Band
C:Double

This is arguable as usual and some characters may bump up but i feel that the original 8 got toned down to fair while the newer characters have very dumb things that you have to deal with at the moment. This pertains to their Features as a character.
That is REALLY close to mine, except I have Val above Peacock and Eliza and Parasoul at the front of A tier.


I really can't think of any character better than Valentine under optimal circumstances. She has by far the best neutral (at least imo), can confirm off of any stray hit, and definitely has some pretty ambiguous mix ups. The only problem is her relative uselessness without an assist, but in this game I think it's stupid to rate characters on how they perform in positions that they aren't supposed to excel in.
 
worldjem said:
Will comment on things later.
Can you tell me how you managed to get an "Average of Ranks" of 21.5 for Robo Fortune when one can only vote for 1-14?

And why are you taking the R column into consideration for your calculation when it isn't even a real number but just a "it's too early"?

And what is going on in the "Diff." column

All of this looks confusing??

iPlaySkullgirls said:
I think it's stupid to rate characters on how they perform in positions that they aren't supposed to excel in.
236 HP+HK
 
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so since everyone else is putting there opinions here I guess I will to.... (cause no one wants this)
So instead of just putting a straight tier list I think it would be more informative to give a classification tier list so:
Reset potential: (based on how many actual reset points the character has)
Top:Filia, Fortune, Painwheel, Double, Bella
Mid:Val, Fukua, Eliza, Parasoul, Squig
Low: Peacock, BB, Beowulf(only because he just came out so several resets have still not been found yet)
Reversal potential: (How many reversal options does the character have)
Top:Filia, Bella, BB, Fortune, Squig(charge)
Mid: Eliza, Val, Beowulf, Parasoul
Low: Double, Squig(no charge), Fukua, Painwheel
Ease of Damage:(Super subjective)
Top:Bella, Fukua, BB, Eliza, Beowulf
Mid:Peacock, Fortune, Fortune, Painwheel, Filia
Low:Val, Double, Squig
Mobility: (based on speed and overall options to move in different directions)
Top:Filia, Val, Fortune, Painwheel (In air)
Mid:Eliza, Peacock, Fukua, Bella, Beowulf
Low:Parasoul, Squig, Painwheel (on the ground), BB, Double


The order has nothing to do with relative ranking
 
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