Skullgirls PC Beta Updates Discussion

[Mike_Z]

Mike, can you make it an option to choose meter and health options for player 1 and player 2 separately?

Nope. You can use savestates if you really wanna do that...

 

[Wenzel]

Mike, can you rest for the sake of god? you deserve it man!

Seriously.

 

[Aden]

Yeah, the bug where the programmer is trapped in a room with the game at all times has been a fun one, like the Parasoul/Robo thing, but it still needs to be fixed.

 

[CaioLugon]

Nope. You can use savestates if you really wanna do that...

I don't think I can check the meterbuild for the oponnent in a 4 bar combo if it builds more than one bar for them.

 

[Fumako]

I don't think I can check the meterbuild for the oponnent in a 4 bar combo if it builds more than one bar for them.

> Set meter level to max
> Set meter setting to "Start with"
> Set select to Dummy Record
> Use up opponent's meter
> Set select to savestate
> Savestate

 

[Yomabuddy]

Uh so when is Cerebella s.HK 2nd hit being overhead and Eliza s.HP HP HP third hit being overhead going to go away? It adds like nothing and has no purpose being there (being a Tekken player I fully understand the redundancy of such things).

Can't wait for that one guy to be like "BUT THAT'S MY BREAD AND BUTTER THO"

 

[earlfriend]

Uh so when is Cerebella s.HK 2nd hit being overhead and Eliza s.HP HP HP third hit being overhead going to go away? It adds like nothing and has no purpose being there (being a Tekken player I fully understand the redundancy of such things).

Can't wait for that one guy to be like "BUT THAT'S MY BREAD AND BUTTER THO"

This game has assists, which can be low hits. Not really flexing your creative muscles much, are you? Surely you could imagine a use for those two moves when you factor in assists.

 

[Yomabuddy]

This game has assists, which can be low hits. Not really flexing your creative muscles much, are you? Surely you could imagine a use for those two moves.

It's not that I don't imagine uses for those moves (hell I don't play these characters lmao) but it's more like it's mostly just fluff that no one uses because there are better tools for the job. I see no one use Bella s.HK 2nd hit overhead or Eliza 3rd s.HP overhead and I'm almost 99% sure this won't become the meta in #10YearsTime. What this does is act as a gimmick that new players have to learn to deal with and they will almost never get hit by it again (PBAG'ing this works and no one good should ever get hit by this). Of course you are more than welcome to prove me wrong by actually using them and hitting good players with them. Also these characters have dedicated overheads (like Bella has elbow drop and j.HP while Eliza has IAD j.LK and Horus) and having those moves like Bella s.HK second hit being overhead serves absolutely 0 purpose to any level of play that is remotely good.

In Tekken there are TONS of moves that have no reason having an extension to them yet they have them and all it does is make it harder for new players to actually start playing the game and lose for the right reasons because they have to spend time learning string gimmicks. I hope you understand my perspective and logic on this.

 

[RemiKz]

I've used Bella's second hit of s.HK to fake an overhead and go straight into her lvl 3 which hits low.

 

[Dime]

There are uses for these things like what remix just said, but by and large the REAL use of these things is to hit rote beginners with them and make them learn something they will almost never get hit by again once they learn.

So I agree with both sides, but were it me I would take out fluff moves like that because they seem to serve as a detractor more than as something that adds depth.

 

[Muro]

Skullgirls development is pretty much finished. It's at the point where asking for any stuff to be added to the game is no longer possible.
What and why makes anyone think asking for stuff to be taken out of the game is a clever loophole in this.

 

[Clawsome Bombs]

This reminds me of the time my friend asked why All Out attacks in Arena are overhead
"It's for no reason"
"Good players can see it coming"

Well
Be a good player :P

Also just like AoAs, any move can be good if you really want it to
I only use Eliza st.HP(3) for the little ground bounce the first time you use it so I wouldn't know how to ultilze it's overhead properties

Maybe st.HP (2) on hit -> delay -> st.HP(3rd hit) for an overhead reset, cancel into Horace for double overhead or Albus to mix it up
I'm bad at theory fighting if I'm not in front of training mode
Anyway, inb4 if it doesn't matter don't pay attention to it, I guess

 

[Crypt Kiddie]

I remember a while back Mike saying that he would want to add fight requests into the training mode like USF4 has, did that idea get scrapped?

 

[Mike_Z]

I remember a while back Mike saying that he would want to add fight requests into the training mode like USF4 has, did that idea get scrapped?

Yep. :^( Not enough time to do everything (see: replays) and too much community ridiculousness on some useless junk (see: taunts).

It's not that I don't imagine uses for those moves (hell I don't play these characters lmao) but it's more like it's mostly just fluff that no one uses because there are better tools for the job.

This is just naive.
Squigly has an instant overhead j.LP (12f, can't be thrown) and an overhead F+HP (22f, can be thrown). People use F+HP all the time, because there are many situations in which it is available when j.LP is not, like after a blockstring or as a staggered uncombo attack.

I see no one use Bella s.HK 2nd hit overhead or Eliza 3rd s.HP overhead and I'm almost 99% sure this won't become the meta in #10YearsTime.

Of what possible significance is "I don't see this used"?
When people started playing, nobody did midscreen assist kills. Does that make them useless?
Nobody used Painwheel's armor much at all. Does that make it useless?
MMDS uses cr.MK as his assist with pretty much every character he uses. Other people don't. Does that make them useless because it's not widely copied?
Nobody used Lenny-Argus after the change until I showed people how to. Does that make it useless before then? Or does it just mean there are uses that are not widely adopted yet?

In Tekken

Is SG a game in which strings are predetermined and normals can't be cancelled into specials except in small given windows? Or is this a game where you can cancel the visible startup of an overhead into a low, combine it with a low assist, or cancel a slow move into a command throw or super?
At least make comparisons that make sense.

Mostly what your post says is "I do not understand how gimmicks work".
In 3s, Urien has a F+MP->F+HP chain, and the 2nd hit is overhead. It doesn't combo, and it is not really used much...except that since nobody uses it, it becomes a good mixup tool once in a very long while. And at those times, it'll win you matches.

Merely having a hit be overhead means it's something the other player has to REMEMBER. I used this all the time in MvC2, since I picked an overhead assist with Juggernaut - a 50f overhead, mind you.
If you see the 2nd hit of s.HK coming you have to STAND UP, which lets Cerebella do Lv3 (or Diamond Drop if they're feeling brave, since lots of people - even good players - will not be holding upback if they barely remember about an overhead).
If you see the 3rd hit of s.HP coming you STAND UP, which lets her try for Albus. And either situation lends itself to a low hitting assist, as mentioned. It's just one more thing that you can use to your advantage because it takes brainpower from the opponent. If they don't remember, they get hit, so they must remember, which means thinking about immediately defending instead of the next step ahead.

A gimmick is, by definition, something you don't see all the time. But that definition MEANS it is not useless. Because yomi exists, optimal play at neutral is not always the best choice.
With this stuff happening in the middle of a match, sometimes it can be that one little extra bit of distraction you need. It being a poor choice instead of a good choice means the opponent is less likely to even be considering it.

 

[Raging_Zoroark]

I faced an Eliza with Squigly's c.HP as an assist once. It was a nightmare.

 

[alexpi]

So, Fuzzy's team?

 

[Arcana]

why dont we just remove lows and highs from the game entirely??? That way new players will never have to learn or put effort in learning these things in an already very new comer friendly fighting game

 

[Cadenza]

yes lets also be smart asses and not be clever about it.

#Hype

 

[Aden]

why dont we just remove lows and highs from the game entirely??? That way new players will never have to learn or put effort in learning these things in an already very new comer friendly fighting game

Now that's real Soviet shitpost.

 

[Fizzxwizz]

performing an outtake as fortune by snapping her head currently does not remove health against solos.

I know this isn't used by anyone but I would like it if this is fixed.

 

[Mike_Z]

performing an outtake as fortune by snapping her head currently does not remove health against solos.
I know this isn't used by anyone but I would like it if this is fixed.

Noted, thanks, I'll look at it when I look at snapping her as a solo not removing her head.

 

[Jason]

Anybody notice that matches on the current build tend to be getting uncomfortably close to time-over more frequently than before?

The slightly higher health + lower damage on Bella/Eliza/Fukua + Solo health regen + people actually trying to play neutral now (wow!) seems to be making matches overall a bit slower than before. I guess its kind of late to be messing with the round timer but I figured I'd bring it up for discussion.

 

[Zidiane]

Anybody notice that matches on the current build tend to be getting uncomfortably close to time-over more frequently than before?

The slightly higher health + lower damage on Bella/Eliza/Fukua + Solo health regen + people actually trying to play neutral now (wow!) seems to be making matches overall a bit slower than before. I guess its kind of late to be messing with the round timer but I figured I'd bring it up for discussion.

Personally, I like time being a factor in a match between players sometimes. I like it to be an actual thing to affect the players decisions rather than just a HUD-cluttering accessory. As long as it isn't an unnatural number of matches that are Time Outs, it sounds fine to me.

I still haven't gotten an actual Time Out in a match, and only a handful of times have gotten close. I don't know what everyone's Time Out even looks like, tbh.

 

[Muro]

Anybody notice that matches on the current build tend to be getting uncomfortably close to time-over more frequently than before?

The slightly higher health + lower damage on Bella/Eliza/Fukua + Solo health regen + people actually trying to play neutral now (wow!) seems to be making matches overall a bit slower than before.

Now that you mention it, I did have a few timeouts in the last weeks (most likely in 3v2 or 3v3 games), which is perhaps a denser occurrence of it than before.

Is that a bad thing, though? It's still pretty rare anyway + I find the endgame struggle when the timer is close to hitting zero (be it having a life lead and escaping, or not having it and doing final attempts to gain it) rather hype and interesting. Don't think I had a game ending with a timeout where I didn't say "damn, that was a good match".

 

[mcpeanuts]

Anybody notice that matches on the current build tend to be getting uncomfortably close to time-over more frequently than before?

No

 

[Jason]

Now that you mention it, I did have a few timeouts in the last weeks (most likely in 3v2 or 3v3 games), which is perhaps a denser occurrence of it than before.

Is that a bad thing, though? It's still pretty rare anyway + I find the endgame struggle when the timer is close to hitting zero (be it having a life lead and escaping, or not having it and doing final attempts to gain it) rather hype and interesting. Don't think I had a game the ended with a timeout where I didn't say "damn, that was a good match".

There are certainly hype time-out wins but there's also those ones where you're down a character and a half, standing at full-screen, with 10 seconds left and you have basically no possibility of a comeback.

Also the factor of "I have to go in or he'll just time me out" is a very important one and one that I use frequently... I'm not saying necessarily that more time-overs is bad just that its worth discussion.

 

[Mike_Z]

@Jason
In an ideal world the actual goal of the timer is to be at 01 when someone dies in the natural course of the match. It should not affect the outcome of most matches, but it should be an approximate indication of the maximum length of a game. The idea is that a zoning character should have to zone you out for approximately the same length of time as a rushdown character takes to kill you. If they are successful, they win.
Having a game where average matches end at 60s left is as bad, design wise, as a game where most matches are time-overs.
So, having matches taking closer to the time limit is fine, or even desirable.

(Just speaking to the design part - I haven't noticed such a trend myself...)

 

[IsaVulpes]

I have always had "lots of" timeouts, so I don't really notice a difference
If there is an increase, it is definitely not uncomfortable

 

[Muro]

but there's also those ones where you're down a character and a half, standing at full-screen, with 10 seconds left and you have basically no possibility of a comeback.

Since Beowulf patch (and hence changes including the health increase) hit retail, I recall one specific near-timeout situation where I was on my last and hardly alive character vs an opponent with two half-healthbar chars. He started playing keepaway with non-keepaway characters, I realised what's going on, and when despite efforts I did not gain the life lead before the clock reached 0, I concluded that was a deserved win for him.

Otherwise, the only situations I've had timeouts were when my opponent and myself were both on our last character (which were pretty hurt at that), with a very close game and every second left deciding who ends up with a life lead. So, for the sake of adding to the discussion, my input is that I didn't regret any of the timeout games I had since the latest retail patch, be it won or lost.

 

[zarkingphoton]

I had a few timeouts recently, but that was just because I was playing against Valentine.

 

[GrunkleBarlowe]

It's a player matchup basis for me. I time out constantly vs some players at locals but others the matches are quick.

I don't see a problem with time outs honestly. As long as there is a clear indication of who is ahead (which there is in this game) I think we're good!

 

[Tomo009]

Mentioned this when it happened and was laughed at.

Now I actually like it though, for pretty much the reasons Mike stated, a large amount of games now go into the last 20 or so seconds. I often end up in the "I need to go in now, I have a life deficit" situation, which means the time is a real resource and I'm liking it.

Generally if one player is playing patiently now it seems to go pretty close to time, it is only when both sides go nuts or someone just gets all the mixups in a row, the game is going to quite low time and I like it!

 

[TechPowah]

Spoiler: Skullgirls Patch Notes: Robo-Beta edition - May 19th, 2015-

General
- In Story Mode ONLY, Marie is 2 difficulty levels easier than the setting for everyone else (so Normal = Sleepwalk and Nightmare = Hard). But beta doesn't have Story Mode!
- Bugfix: Assists now come out on the "correct" side, if you are more than 200px past the other character, regardless of which way you are facing. Crossunders can still call them from behind, as long as you are not too far past the other character.
- Trying some improvements for charge moves...<B>="bold text", so I can't do charge notation properly. Assume the first direction is charged, hah.
- "Beta" text should now be properly positioned no matter your screen size.

Beowulf
- Added the 2f kara period for trashcan from headbutt/knee/Wulf Press Slam/Diving Wulfdog (ground), like all other snapbacks have. Thanks Muro!
- Chair pickup, window for pressing the buttons "together" lengthened from 2f->3f. Thanks JamesMcCloud.

Big Band
- Added proper armored hit transitions on Lv5 punches; it now REALLY has the 40 hits of armor that it's always had in the move's script. :^P Thanks inadvertently, Flotilla and TechPowah!
- Cannot end any B-F / 4-6 charge move in UF / 9, to prevent DB+HP->UF+button / 1+HP,9+button from giving a special attack instead of a jumping attack.
- Big Band cannot do B,F,DB+K / 4,6,1+K for A-Train, so that A-Train does not overlap with Giant Step.
- Big Band cannot do B,F,D+P / 4,6,2+P for Brass Knuckles, so that Brass Knuckles does not overlap with Beat Extend.

Ms. Fortune
- Fortune's head-on tag-in will no longer cross up (it was leaving her in the spot the other character was for too long, till after the head came out).
- A successful snapback via hitting her own head into the opponent now properly gives her back red life when she's a solo, and properly removes red life when it hits solos. Thanks Fizzxwizz.
- Being snapped out when she's a solo properly causes her to lose her head.

Parasoul
- Tear Toss now has higher input priority than Napalm Quake/Pillar, so that [D],DB,B,UB+K / [2]147+K properly gives a Tear Toss. Thanks Vulpes. This one's a stealth update. Hah!
- For 35f after dashing with Parasoul, she can't do B,F,B+button / 4,6,4+button OR B,F,neutral+button / 4,6,5+button to do a special attack. This allows dashing normal attacks even if you had a charge already. She can still do dashing special attacks with B,F+button / 4,6+button or B,DF+button / 4,3+button.

Robo-Fortune
- Final selection of colors!
- Fixed a bug with missile collision. Thanks MMDS!
- A bug has become a feature! If Parasoul's taunt is called during RoboFortune's Lv3, the time remaining is instantly set to zero. She will explode as soon as she's allowed to, but will not explode if she's dead/outside the Lv3/being thrown/supering/assisting/etc.

 

[Mike_Z]

notes

Note that there was a stealth change just now. :^)

 

[TechPowah]

Noted and added.

 

[Raging_Zoroark]

- A bug has become a feature! If Parasoul's taunt is called during RoboFortune's Lv3, the time remaining is instantly set to zero. She will explode as soon as she's allowed to, but will not explode if she's dead/outside the Lv3/being thrown/supering/assisting/etc.

Are you telling me that it wasn't before?

And where I can see the new palettes for robo fortune? I can't play right now X.X

 

[Aden]

- A bug has become a feature! If Parasoul's taunt is called during RoboFortune's Lv3, the time remaining is instantly set to zero. She will explode as soon as she's allowed to, but will not explode if she's dead/outside the Lv3/being thrown/supering/assisting/etc.

I am so glad you weren't joking, Mike. Time to learn Parasoul, time for a team made out of Samus.

Edit: Mike, I was so excited Training Room was going to be on top today, what happened?

 

[gskie8c5o8]

Spoiler: Skullgirls Patch Notes: Robo-Beta edition - May 19th, 2015-

- A bug has become a feature! If Parasoul's taunt is called during RoboFortune's Lv3, the time remaining is instantly set to zero. She will explode as soon as she's allowed to, but will not explode if she's dead/outside the Lv3/being thrown/supering/assisting/etc.

why parasoul's taunt only?
she has a r.fotune's explosion switch?

 

[Aden]

why parasoul's taunt only?
she has a r.fotune's explosion switch?

HAHAHAhahahaha, I know exactly why, too.
They use the same variable, and Parasoul's taunt is accidentally setting it on the point-character-of-the-team rather than on herself.

Time to change this into a feature...

 

[OldOnyxBones]

Is it just me or is the assist “wrong side” change not giving the 200px leeway it was supposed to?