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Backer Build Discussion/Secrets/Speedrunning tricks

did you get lucky with some of the rng?
yeah the end is pretty luck-heavy. bad boss rng can add a lot of time but the odds arent so bad, getting a good run with good rng can happen every day.

Something new, that we don't know ?
somebody knows! i hope mike knows, at least
 
i'm pretty sure Mike Knows. he mentioned some stuff about speedrun strats that he decided not to take out in the new patch.

but yeah that's pretty good there Frig. not sure if LZ officially started the speedrun contest just yet. these times are going to get crazy.
 
i actually dont know how they can get any crazier. 2:45 seems like the best i could possibly get out of my route and im not aware of a faster one. its always possible im overlooking something though
 
well just make sure you've practice up on the fastest ways to climb stuff. There are some sections where you can drop down and avoid ledges shaving off a few seconds.
 
SO did anyone get any better time ? or did someone discovered something new ?

If not, maybe I will at last start my own attempts.
 
I am.... Really far from that record myself, haha... ;)
 
I'm about 20 seconds slower than frig right now.
 
Althoug, I'm still not sure what glitch frig use, I combined all the strat that we know about for clear/pacifist/zen run, and first will try to get close time ( I don't believe I will ) and after getting some good time with that, I will probably switch 100% and try there, because so far it wasn't mentioned that much.
 
i think it was smart in the last contest to offer a bigger reward for the winner of clearest% because routing (and running) that category takes a lot more effort. as it is in this contest i see no reason to split my focus between the two categories, especially since it might impact my chances of winning either one. (and the prize is the same.)
 
@frig Are you recording your runs too? If you win i definitely want to see it.
 
I'm kind of annoyed that there are prizes at all now since I have no real interest in speedrunning, especially in a contest but I'm extremely curious about the skips/methods people are using to get these times.
 
i think it was smart in the last contest to offer a bigger reward for the winner of clearest% because routing (and running) that category takes a lot more effort. as it is in this contest i see no reason to split my focus between the two categories, especially since it might impact my chances of winning either one. (and the prize is the same.)

Last time I also started with clear/zen. Got something like 3:10 or something, but back then I had no idea how to improve more because of lack of other people to talk to ( I wasn't also looking that much for them ) and other video to study and learn from, so I swaped to 100%, and found like 2-3 people to talk to, find new strat and other stuff.

After that, oh boy the run was close. For pretty much whole time I had the best time and if I remember correctly, I was the only one that was streaming my runs ( can be wrong on that one ), BUT then at the last 8 h or so, havic did his run with all combine strats that we all found + one mroe thing, and well he was better ( Indivisible PROTOTYPE Speedrunning & Secrets Discussion ) I was kinda angry, only becasue I was first this whole time and still end up second, literally seconds before the contest end time.

Thats why this time I'm little more focused on first getting all info I can before doings runs so that something simillar won't happend again.

I will see in which category I will stay, have more fun doing. For now as far as I can see, people focus on clearest, and only havic doing 100%. He won last contest so I think he won't submit his run, or if he will, I think Lab Zero won't list his run with other ( because he already have that 500$ backer or whatever that time price was ) or they would ?

EDIT: Some time ago when I was doing runs I did get 3:03
For past 2 days was trying to improve it and did get 3:01
sZeMN2B.png

I know I can still get lower, but don't know how much. I still need to think more for this.
If someone is interested, I can share the route I'm currently using.
 
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did a lot of runs with the new stuff

yeah I'm not doing the contest but I'm still going to do runs because it's really fun
 
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did a lot of runs with the new stuff

yeah I'm not doing the contest but I'm still going to do runs because it's really fun

I still find it funny that the "perfect block" lets you survive with 1 hp, because thanks to that, you can basically survive everything ( as long as you get that timing right ) and something amazing like that is possible.

Ech time to practice that perfect block timing for next few days lol
 
I still find it funny that the "perfect block" lets you survive with 1 hp, because thanks to that, you can basically survive everything
It's supposed to basically be a parry, yeah.
 
perfect block is amazing. it yields so much when you pull it off. I can't wait for counters to come into play. Like when you perfect block an attack and you cancel out of the blocking animation into an attack kinda like an alpha counter or something. that would be cool.
 
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Yeah, I'm curious how exactly counter is going to work, like if it's something you'll only get in bare handed or not and if you have access to it otherwise how that. You probably have to at least have a turn to counter instead of perfect block.

Really hoping Kampan does get a counter for perfect blocking with a shell.
 
@frig Are you recording your runs too? If you win i definitely want to see it.
ive got a 2:48 run on youtube that i included in my first submission for the contest but the route is basically the same as my current one, so its unlisted & im only showing it to peeps i know arent running. hopefully the camera will be on when i make 2:45

I'm kind of annoyed that there are prizes at all now since I have no real interest in speedrunning, especially in a contest but I'm extremely curious about the skips/methods people are using to get these times.
i kind of agree. one of the most interesting parts of speedrunning to me is when a whole community collaborates to find faster and faster routes. with a contest, though, things become a lot more cloak-and-dagger and broad collaboration like that is implicitly discouraged. if you show your hand, youre at a disadvantage against someone who found a different set of tricks that theyre keeping secret.

i would really like to talk about my route because im proud of it but i will be even more proud if i win :^P and also im a big fan of the game & didnt contribute at the $500 level so the prizes are very enticing
 
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Since we're on this subject, I guess I should probably put actual speedrunning tricks/tactics in the OP. Off the top of my head the only things I remember being publicly shared have been the skips, bow-jump stuff and anything else in the runs @havick9 has been kind enough to post, is there anything else?

Has anyone found any application for entering multiple supers at once in their runs? I was proud of that find but I don't know how valuable it is outside of doing something different in combat.

i kind of agree. one of the most interesting parts of speedrunning to me is when a whole community collaborates to find faster and faster routes. with a contest, though, things become a lot more cloak-and-dagger and broad collaboration like that is implicitly discouraged. if you show your hand, youre at a disadvantage against someone who found a different set of tricks that theyre keeping secret.
It's kind of interesting that the mindset is so different from the one the Skullgirls community has been promoting that if you share your tech then it makes the competition more interesting. Though obviously there is a difference between fighting people in a fighting game and trying to win a speedrun contest in order to win a prize you consider valuable. Sharing tech in this contest means everything really will come down to the exact time as opposed to skipping right over the competition with some obscure trick you found.

At least it's likely that everyone will share once the contest is over, since either you're only going to continue for enjoyment of the game or you're not going to continue so the tech doesn't matter. Being patient is just rough sometimes.

i would really like to talk about my route because im proud of it but i will be even more proud if i win :^P
I'd love to see it and would be willing to not share the route information, but I doubt you'd be willing to risk that, still doesn't hurt to ask. As I've said before I have no intention of entering in any case, I just enjoy this stuff.
 
There's another way to "deactivate" the Kabandha/Treant next to the Razmi pick up
Thanks to MikeZ

while it may be more consistent, it's slower than doing the baiting thing


IMPORTANT - this combat to world Oont/Warlock bug might get patched/turned illegal for the contest depending on what people think about it

I don't like it because it skips the fun combat, makes me spam arrows, and it skips the golem summon skip that I wanted to learn.
I like how it makes pacifist runs possible again though. Also, it's in a middle of a contest and I'm not sure if everyone will get informed if it does become illegal.
 
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My only complaint towards the skip being patched is it would dismiss the runs and time put into the routes currently used to compete in the contest. It took me near 60 hours of steam playtime to get a time I was satisfied with in clear? alone, having that grind gone for naught would be pretty crushing imo. As for how it'd affect the run itself, I think it's better for clearest since all the more action is great. For the clear run I think it's worse since it's the only forced fight.
 
If they patch the skip they just need to extend the contest time.
 
If they patch the skip they just need to extend the contest time.

^ This.

Either they won't do anything, or they need to rethink/redo the speedrun contest.

When I moved the topic about various bugs/glitchs few post ago, there was 0 reaction from them, until patch note came with this

- Fixed a bug where you could walljump back up into a Slide path.
- Intentionally didn't fix some other pretty cool skips. :^)
- Hopefully fixed the loud static bug when music loops on some computers. Let me know...if I didn't.... :^S

SO they Intentionally allowed the skip to work, and be used in the run. And even created different category - Clear?
And now around 2 weeks before the contest end, they want to change things, bad idea imo.

If they don't like this glitch, the simplest idea would be added new category, so we would have 3 contest
Clear ( with killing boss)
Clear? (with skipping the boss)
100%
or leave things like they are now.


There's another way to "deactivate" the Kabandha/Treant next to the Razmi pick up
Thanks to MikeZ

There was a highlight where someone in clear run got Razmi whitout triggering the fight, before the warlock skip was found. I tested it, and and it worked like 90% of times. BUT the idea of that trick was to skip Dhar, so when you get Razmi, the window where you swap character wouldn't appear, and I though that was the point of not trigering the fight.

But again, I found different video showing this "skip" working in kinda 100% attempt.
Around 24 min mark.


The only similarity I can find in this, is that in both video that I saw, and in Mike , is that in all of them, Razmi was in fighting team.

Dunno if that is a really needed to skip the fight, but thats the only thing I found simillar in all video.
 
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And even created different category - Clear?
I remember pulling off "Clear?" not too long after the Preview went out, but I was always a little wary of anyone exploring it further since the contest page stuck with calling it a "Clear" Run rather than using looser terms. So, it's actually cool to see that they've also been accepting Clear? all this time.

I feel like the toughest part of all of this is, if they have any plans to roll out a significant content update to the Preview before the end of the year as a means to generate interest, those last 16 days are now their only window of opportunity to do it. Whatever they decide for the contest, I feel like they still have to let the current contest deadline stick in order to keep their options open. It's just another drawback of releasing the Preview so late.
 
This would save some time because you can stack as much as you want afaik since you wouldn't need to jump over enemies. It would also look pretty cool to walk through like a gallery of enemies and stuff lol. Definitely see this being patched before the contest ends, this removes some interesting movement as well.
 
This would save some time because you can stack as much as you want afaik since you wouldn't need to jump over enemies. It would also look pretty cool to walk through like a gallery of enemies and stuff lol. Definitely see this being patched before the contest ends, this removes some interesting movement as well.
This game is a mess lmfao
 
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i wish the contest had been announced later, after the preview was released, so devs would have had time to fix bugs they didnt want to see abused. as it is now theres a lot of ambiguity re: what tricks might and might not become illegal, when we are already almost halfway to the deadline (which is starting to put me off.)

the very bare-bones nature of this contest when compared to the last one bothers me too. the submission rules are vague and only ask for a screenshot of your gametime, which seems to leave the door open to photoshopped submissions and the like. i want to assume that l0 has some kind of verification process theyll be using to ensure that the winning time is legit, but i dont like not knowing-- and if i need some other form of proof to win, i dont like not being told so. (im recording most of my runs anyway, just to be safe.)

im sympathetic to the devs though, namely mike. i know hes burning the candle at both ends to put this contest on and i dont want to seem unappreciative. i just wanna know if im wasting my time before its too late

oh hey no rng
jesus
 
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This game is a mess lmfao
Yeah, it's a shame this game released like this and didn't have a beta period that had a specific place to report bugs and the like.
 
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Yeah, it's a shame this game released like this and didn't have a beta period that had a specific place to report bugs and the like.
its a lot shorter than expected, eh? and wheres all the other characters!!
 
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Yeah, it's a shame this game released like this and didn't have a beta period that had a specific place to report bugs and the like.
It's a shame you didn't understand that my comment was just a humorous observation of all the delightful bugs in the beta and not in any way a negative criticism of what I clearly understand is a beta preview
 
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Well, strangely this glitch doesn't save that much time overall. Most time can be saved on last boss ( fight + dead animation )

SO after 30 min of preparing, here you go.
X1EgTRj.png
 
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Well, strangely this glitch doesn't save that much time overall. Most time can be saved on last boss ( fight + dead animation )

SO after 30 min of preparing, here you go.
X1EgTRj.png
did you freeze everybody? i managed 2:21.9 while only freezing a couple belu and oont
 
did you freeze everybody? i managed 2:21.9 while only freezing a couple belu and oont

Yeah thats why it took me 30 min to freeze every enemy you encounter on the way. I could get probably better time but well didn't care because this glitch is op and probably will be banned, and also I made few mistakes here and there with my movement.

Also looked like the first half ( to the red belu near the secret entrance ) is similar timewise. So at least to me it didn't matter too much if you freeze enemy, or jump over them, I had almost same time ( maybe 1-2 sec different ) so themost time you save is on the fight with boss, and not dying.