Fortune Technology: Resets, Mixups, etc.

Discussion in 'Ms. Fortune' started by Vladislav_Paizis, Sep 5, 2013.

  1. KhaosMuffins

    KhaosMuffins Wannabe Gatekeeper

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    Yeah that's a mad old post. Just do launch > Tiger knee'd HK Axe kick. It's pretty tight and takes some practice, though.
     
  2. dorne

    dorne New Member

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    Spectre Zero came up with a pretty neat axe kick loop for beta, and I modified it for encore to start with h. axe kick instead of j.hk. You need to input a button and cancel it into h. axe kick in order to be able to hit the body after it hits.



    Compare Spectre's combo:

     
  3. Stuff

    Stuff Lore Master Lord of Lore

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    So I thought it would be a good idea to list as many resets (or reset points actually) possible from any one combo to help beginners get an idea of when and where they can reset hopefully also teaching them to experiment and make their own super cool resets when they can. So I did this one with Fortune's bnb. I also put a few notes about the combo when the starter is blocked and such and while I don't want to remove the player of thinking it might also help not overthink what they can and can't do.

    As a note none of these things are not absolute nor will they always work, it's left to the judgement of the player to decide when to reset and what reset they will use and as an added note resets are ALWAYS a risk they are almost never guaranteed unless they're super tight and even then. In bold will be the combo everything else is notes and as I said earlier they are not the definitive "you must do these" notes but merely suggestions and everyone can add their own notes, this is strictly to help get a player understand how to use resets or at least attempt to. I hope this turns out to be useful and I might do more in the future.

    2LK>5MK>5HK>623LK~K (While 2LK 5MK is no longer a blockstring the gap between them is so small that it's a frame trap or basically a blockstring if they don't mash super or something invulnerable inbetween.)
    (At any point if there is no pb then 236LP if there is a pb then 623LK.)
    jHP>adc>jHP>214MK
    (You can decide to reset low after any hit because you're so close to the ground(Riskier!!!). From the last jHP or 214MK you can reset however you like, be it a low high or throw or iad jLP which crosses up and you do 214LK as fast as you can when it hits.)
    2MP>5MK>5HK>623LK~K
    jLK>jHP>214MK

    (same as before can also jLK backdash throw for a bait)
    5LP(x2)>5LK>5MP>5MK>5HP>236HP~P~P>236PP
    (You can do a low throw high w/e from your jab. A riskier reset includes doing 236HP~P~K but it's really stupid don't do it.)

    Resets from 623LK~LK:
    You can go for jLP jMK jHK fastfall into either cross up resets or decide not to cross up doing high low or throw
    You can also do jLP jLK jMP adc which looks like you're going for a throw reset or something but it's all a lie the second you do any normal you will be on the floor doing a grounded normal it's very deceptive.
    You can also be crazy and do dash throw you can even just not airdash if you want after the fiber it's kinda funny
    Resets from jHP jHP 214MK:
    As with what I said before you can also do 9jLK which hits then has fortune landing behind the opponent for an easy jLP or jHP crossup into 214LK (for jLP) or 214MK (for jHP)
    Special notes(?) Sometimes you can catch your opponent sleeping by only doing one normal after fiber but the risk may not be worth it. Stopping from points that are plus on hit are fun to use as reset points but trying crazy things isn't the most advisable to do.
    What I've listed are just some resets that I do that tend to work these resets are by no means the best ones and the only ones you should do because experimenting is fun and everyone should do that.

    There are mostly likely a few things I've missed but I got lazy at some point and I don't do every fortune reset available to me.

    Maybe the next one'll be clearer and more organized too.

    But yeah. the fortune compendium probably has this but from what I see in beginners I think it has to be written more than once hehehe.

    Oh and for those that don't know numpad notation here's a link just click the sentence.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2015
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  4. Stuff

    Stuff Lore Master Lord of Lore

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    I'm not sure if anyone'll find this helpful but here:

     
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  5. Dhoppler

    Dhoppler Forsaken by grains. Hated by the food industry.

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    I think i can adapt it to my team.
     
  6. LazyBakemono

    LazyBakemono Yeah

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    Made a video on some crossup resets

    First one works on Beowulf, Fortune, Robo, Filia/Fukua, Peacock, Painwheel, and Valentine
    Second one works on Squigly and Parasoul
    Third one works on Double and Eliza
    The last one Only works on Big Band. I couldn't find anything that works on Bella
     
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  7. Adwins

    Adwins Active Member

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    so i came across L Fiber - jLP - jLK - jMP - (land/ADC) as a reset setup and it seems there are other ways to do it off of L Fiber, like those jMK fst falls in the compendium.

    does anyone else have any other L Fiber variations that leave fortune on the ground with a reset opportunity as the opp is landing? I feel like mixing the setup up as much as the actual mixup reset is just as valuable. I would (and will) look through this thread but i also want to have the options compiled in a more compact way with context
     
  8. gllt

    gllt Dedicated

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    jMP in general and jMK1 fast fall let you do things yeah
     
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  9. Midiman

    Midiman Person, SG Player, Guy who likes cats Gameplay Mod

    Cerebella
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    This isn't helpful for the thread but oh my god please stop making me want to run a new team yaaaaaaaaagh
     
  10. Adeveis

    Adeveis PS3 Skullbats Host

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    Show Spoiler


    I'm 100% this was posted before but I remember one of the commentators at sj9 mentioned the lack of head -off technology. I just want to take the time to remind Fortune players the options they have without their head.
     
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  11. Fizzxwizz

    Fizzxwizz lit News Writer

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    since one or two people have been getting more interest in headless I thought I would put this here. It's mostly just easy stuff to do while headless.
    none of this is damage efficient at all​

    also this is pretty poorly put together my b.



    Basically the jist of it is that when your head is at the opponent's feet, that is the perfect time to do headless stuff. This doesn't happen super often midscreen so like most headless stuff its works best in the corner.

    When doing decap attack pressure in the corner against a blocking opponent, call an assist right before you think they will pushblock (something like brass, battle butt, even bypass) and you will most likely be able to keep pressuring them and getting that sweet 50 chip damage per decap attack.

    In addition, when you've got the opponent in a decap attack blockstring in the corner and you don't want to call an assist, shk > l fiber works very well. If they don't pushblock, then you'll launch the head above them in an "active" state, creating a sort of frametrap if they try to press a button cause they'll get donked on the head by your head when it comes down. Also, if they do happen to pushblock, it can make your l fiber whiff, letting you get back in and continue pressure for mostly free.

    Another important bit of info is, if your head is behind the opponent, head butt (5hp) will pull them out of the corner, allowing you to get behind them for sneaky mixups. This also works with beat extend assist.

    For real though, whatever you do, make sure you do not put yourself in the corner with the head in a vulnerable state.


    you are putting yourself into TOD territory. So if you ever play headless and like to have the opponent in the corner like I do, make sure this doesn't happen to you.
    this isn't even a really good example.

    Play smart, use your head.
     
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  12. FuLLBLeeD

    FuLLBLeeD KC Skullgirls

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    ayy lmao lets talk about headless Fortune. I wanna talk about a couple topics so I'll divide them up to make them easier to respond too.

    1. What resets are you guys using with headless Fortune? Personally, I think the best headless resets are these ones (both from the Skippy McYay guide):

    s.HK, j.LP (or j.LK)
    ->j.LP (non crossup)
    ->delay j.LP (crossup)

    Probably my favorite headless Fortune reset. It's hard to mash out of, and it's pretty ambiguous. You can escape it by backdashing, but I think you might be able to catch the opponent backdashing with your head (I need to test this). If your opponent blocks the reset, you are at frame advantage, so you can just go for another mixup.

    s.MK, c.HK (1 hit) xx LK Fiber Upper
    ->j.MP, c.LK (fastfalls and hits low) (you can also do j.LK, j.MK (1 hit) j.HK to fastfall)
    ->j.LK ADC delay j.LK, j.MP crosses up
    -> j.LK j.MK (1 hit) adc airthrow (throws the opponent in the air right above the head so you can easily combo)
    -ADC j.LK MP/M Gato (might cross up? need to check)?

    These cover all your bases basically. You can either crossup and go high or low, do an air throw, and go crossup high low on the opposite side. The only problem is, I haven't found a super good way go high on the same side. You can do j.LK, delay ADC j.LK j.MP/MK El Gato, but the timing seems weird. You can also just do an airdash j.LK after the fastfall setup, although I don't like doing headless Fortune's IAD at this range because it is janky and sometimes you just get a crossup air dash with no normal. Fuzzy guard j.LK, ADC j.LK instantly prorates our combo but seems like the best option. You could also probably just go overhead with El Gato once they land.

    Basically I just wanted to find some sort of equivalent to the Fiber resets Head on, and this seems like the best option. If anyone has any way to get a good same side high reset out of this setup, let me know.

    Of all the reset routes in the Skippy guide, these are the best ones for me. A lot of the other resets seem convoluted, and I really hate the way resets

    2. Nom resets/and setups. If you get a hit with zoom x nom in neutral, unless you can kill right there, your best option is to go for a reset or setup, because...
    -You've used your OTG, drastically limiting your combo options
    -Scaling is high because of starting the combo with nom
    -The cooldown on nom is long, so you'll want to do something that gives you your sandwich positioning back, since it's difficult to combo back into a sandwich situation off nom

    Regardless, headless Fortune has really good setups off of nom! These are also taken from the Skippy guide, but this is what I use:

    Nom
    j.LP back airdash cancel, j.HK (reversal safe if timed right):

    This setup OWNS bones and flat out beats most reversals in the game. It beats EVERYTHING Bella does, and will even beat Eliza's level 3! If your opponent doesn't block high, this is just a reset off j.HK which is a great combo starter. They might even get counterhit! But the idea isn't supposed to be tricky, it's to bait and punish reversals. Unfortunately, this doesn't beat everything. It loses to Squigly's Daisy Pusher among other things (the other setups I'll list might be better to use against Squigly). Fortunately, headless has a lot of good resets off of nom.

    (I tested this setup with playback as reversal. I am bad at training mode but I'm pretty sure it beats the things I said it does. Still, you will want to check).

    j.LP/LK, j.LP b.adc j.LP c.LK/s.LP

    j.LP/LK b.ad j.HK

    j.LP/LK ad airthrow whiff, c.LK (can land on either side based on timing and distance)

    j.LP/LK adc j.LP > L Gato (uncrossup) based on varying timing distance. Only works on stand block

    -Run throw after nom

    Nom, j.LP back airdash cancel airthrow whiff c.LK

    These are all out of my notes, but should cover all bases as far as "sameside high/low, crossup high/low and throw" are concerned.

    3. Any hit cancellable Fiber Upper was a buff Fortune received. Has anyone found anything cool with it yet? I imagine it could be used to some capacity in resets. I think we should look into it.
     
  13. gllt

    gllt Dedicated

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    Not even trying to deny any of this, I just wanted to note there are some odd restands you can do with headless without the head that might buy you time for cooldown if you really want the head back for the next reset or to try and get back into sandwich positioning. The caveat being that by extending your combo further to do so, you're doing it at the high scaling that you mentioned above and you're just tacking on more undizzy.

    It might be worth trying to find stuff specifically starting from nom so that it's more clear what you need to try to do with what can be done without the head to get back into the sandwich position in a reliable manner, and that nom needs to come from the zoom xx nom at a decent distance so that what you confirm off nom with is taken into account. Maybe doing the jHK starter off nom, which needs you to be closer, gives you more time/an alternate route to make it work, but you don't get that benefit from further ranges, or close to fullscreen.

    SO MUCH THEORY I'M SORRY HERE JUST TAKE WHAT I CAME TO POST and then I'll go in the lab later and try to actually crank something out like that if I can.
    This is all also assuming solo headless (which you should always assume that first, it might be the last thing you're playing in a match one day at set point.)
    Assists probably patch this right up in various ways, from doing damage even at max scaling, to getting back to sandwich position easily, whatever. Etc.

    Let's see if I can link instead of embedding...
    Show Spoiler

    vs double
    vs filia
    vs filia


    edit: lol no. gg. spoiler'd.
     
  14. FuLLBLeeD

    FuLLBLeeD KC Skullgirls

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    These are certainly very useful for max damage confirms, which is something that is great to have, because with that kind of damage and a DHC you could sometimes kill off nom. However in the case of getting a zoom x nom hit in neutral, the best option would still be to just reset early I think. You could do the optimized combos you posted and do better resets off those (like the ones I mentioned in my post, s.HK and c.HK (1 hit) xx LK Fiber) but once you get to a point you can do those resets, you've accumulated a lot of redizzy.

    Definitely useful for getting your sandwich positioning back though.
     
  15. Cadenza

    Cadenza Documentation Expert

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  16. FuLLBLeeD

    FuLLBLeeD KC Skullgirls

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    This is really good, it looks like you get every meaningful reset option you would need from that transition combo you do. Is that Fiber reset you were doing universal or large character specific?

    Headless resets are really good, they're arguably way better than head on because if someone escapes them by dashing backwards or upbacking you have the head to catch them/put them in blockstun again.

    I'm currently trying to master everything worth learning in the Skippy guide. The setups I posted a few posts up are really good (s.HK, j.LP/j.LK and s.MK, c.HK (1 hit) xx LK Fiber are still my favorite setups) but the Fiber and headbutt resets are super good too.
     
  17. Cadenza

    Cadenza Documentation Expert

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    Can confirm universal...........Welp
     
  18. Natezer

    Natezer Get Innocuous!

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    i just recorded a bunch of weird tech so here you go


     
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  19. Cadenza

    Cadenza Documentation Expert

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    Someone must've found this but i thought it would be cool to see an example.
     
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  20. FuLLBLeeD

    FuLLBLeeD KC Skullgirls

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    Dog you GOTTA tell me what music you're using in these videos.
     
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  21. FuLLBLeeD

    FuLLBLeeD KC Skullgirls

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    What I'd like to see the community look into more of is hard knockdown setups with headless Fortune off TK HK Axe Kick and the head,and see if there is anything there in terms of meaties/safe anti-reversal setups.
     
  22. Dhoppler

    Dhoppler Forsaken by grains. Hated by the food industry.

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    Sounds like you have homework. Thanks for volunteering.
     
  23. Cadenza

    Cadenza Documentation Expert

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    1. I do not intensely play this character so TEST THIS BEFORE YOU USE IT
    2. 4chan is a simple excuse to do edits and add music to it.

    Real notes***
    the first reset if you saw the c.lk hitting the head you can then do j.lk, Headbutt, cross up or uncrossup via j.lk or airthrow whiff.
     
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  24. Cadenza

    Cadenza Documentation Expert

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    universal midscreen:

     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2015
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  25. FuLLBLeeD

    FuLLBLeeD KC Skullgirls

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    c.HK xx LK Fiber setups enable headless Fortune's best resets (at least imo) but if you do it off max range c.LK it won't work so make sure you're really close to them.

    You can also do nom at the end of a lot of headless resets to catch them up backing so that's something.
     
  26. CaioLugon

    CaioLugon It's an alpaca Gameplay Mod

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    Examples?
     
  27. Cadenza

    Cadenza Documentation Expert

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    In the corner you get c.hk, L fiber, Headbutt and you get to crossunder. That's one example there's prolly alot more in skippy's guide tho
     
  28. FuLLBLeeD

    FuLLBLeeD KC Skullgirls

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    Setups off c.HK (1 hit) xx LK Fiber
    1. j.LK delay j.LK adc j.LK MP
    2. j.LK ADC block (beats reversals like napalm pillar)
    3. j.LK adc j.LK MP/M Gato
    4. j.LK, j.MP ADC j.MP
    5. j.LK adc airthrow whiff c.lk
    6. j.LK MK (1 hit) adc airthrow

    Number 4 is a really good setup. It will straight up beat Napalm Pillar and allow you to fall and block to punish Dynamo. Against Cerebella, if you have the head behind you and do nom as you're falling, you'll beat every reversal option she has. You'll fall in time to block Dynamo/rocks, and if she tries to 360 she'll get hit by nom. Once they're scared of that you can mix it up by going low or crossing up with setup #1. This might also cover all your bases against Squiggly, I'd have to check.

    Right now I've been looking into setups that are anti-reversal off reset routes, as well as setups that you should be using on specific characters. c.HK(1 hit) xx LK Fiber setups are great on a lot of characters, but they lose to Double's LK Hornet Bomber. I'm working on a headless "setplay" (for lack of a better word) guide with recommended resets and anti-reversal setups to use against every character. For example against Filia and Double I'd use s.MK xx LK Fiber setups because they can easily beat resets above them.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2015
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  29. CaioLugon

    CaioLugon It's an alpaca Gameplay Mod

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    These can all be done while head-on though, why is it specifically "headless Fortune's best resets"?
     
  30. Dhoppler

    Dhoppler Forsaken by grains. Hated by the food industry.

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    He's got a point. Those are all just fortune general resets. Though you can nom at the end to guarantee advantage.
     
  31. FuLLBLeeD

    FuLLBLeeD KC Skullgirls

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    I guess it wouldn't be specifically "headless best resets". This is just the reset that's most like head on's s.HK xx LK Fiber resets (one's that allow you to go high, low, throw, crossup, or bait a reversal). Like Dhoppler said, the advantage is that you have nom to catch upbacking, and if you hit them or make them block you're back in sandwich positioning.

    There's probably setups that are head on exclusive that are specifically the best one for "headless". Maybe the head crossunder ones and the ones where you do s.HK, s.HP are good because they seem hard to mash out of. Whatever, what I mean was this is one of the better resets headless Fortune can do. :P So maybe "best headless resets" isn't the best term.

    I really want to start a headless think tank for resets/setups. The SkippyMcYay guide has a lot of good tech, but I want to test which of those setups are the best against which characters. I don't want to do it all myself though :(
     
  32. dorne

    dorne New Member

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    Showing some head cancels.

    You can cancel a Zoom! or Headbutt into a Cat Call or OMNOMNOMNOM either on whiff or hit.I
    You can cancel the head from a Zoom! or Headbutt into a Feline Allergies on hit, whiff, or block.
    Doing two actions will cause the cooldown rate of the head to increase (except if you fully Cat Call).
    Depending on the location of the head you can have the head strike from the left or right of the opponent, giving you an opportunity to do a Decap attack and keep the pressure up.




    A s.hk head on cross under:



    I need your help. In the middle of testing I found a way to do mid-air j.hk crossup, but now I can't seem to find it again. Does anyone know away to do this consistently?
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2015
  33. FuLLBLeeD

    FuLLBLeeD KC Skullgirls

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    What are you guys doing for anti-pushblock setups? I know Fortune can do s.LP, 2f delay s.MK. Are there any other ones? What about with headless? I feel like c.LK on the head could be good, as could just fibering at them and headbutting again when they pushblock you away.
     
  34. CaioLugon

    CaioLugon It's an alpaca Gameplay Mod

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    we marvel



    You need to be really fast for this to work, the way I'm doing it is by pressing up on the analog stick and then up on the dpad in a single motion, you CAN do it just by pressing up twice but you just have to be really fast or it'll whiff on most characters.
     
  35. Pickles

    Pickles VT scene?

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    pad player privilege smh
     
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  36. CaioLugon

    CaioLugon It's an alpaca Gameplay Mod

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    clearly the superior device
     
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  37. fenster

    fenster Stop Bugging me about Avatars ;_;

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    Wow this thread is so slow the first post on this page is almost a year old

    You know what fortune players are missing from their gameplans? Overheads. Not enough Overheads.
     
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  38. CaioLugon

    CaioLugon It's an alpaca Gameplay Mod

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    Big Band
    robo can do that too with j.lp btw, didn't check with other characters
     
    fenster likes this.
  39. Sunset Radiance

    Sunset Radiance The Ultimate Pun-isher

    Steam:
    Sunset Radiance
    Ms. Fortune
    Robo Fortune
    Eliza
    When I figure out how to record and upload footage, I'd like to contribute, as well. Great stuff. ^.^
     
    Adwins likes this.
  40. Lex

    Lex Skill pending

    Location:
    Scotland, UK
    Steam:
    Lex
    PSN:
    Ilexyellowdog
    Valentine
    Filia
    Double
    I don't know if it's already been mentioned, but cr.MP and slide low profile Beowulf's Gigantic arm and Peacock's M Bang!
     

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