Indivisible Lore Index/Dicussion

Discussion in 'Indivisible' started by chillbean, Oct 13, 2015.

  1. Kit Ballard

    Kit Ballard Adorable in small packages

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    that was def not what they was hinting at. It was more for a full on discussion topic with the LORE of the incarnations.. not some fan crap
     
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  2. Gamrdogg

    Gamrdogg I shall build a mountain of troops!

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    ^This basically. My intention was also to have a thread where all the Incarnations revealed can be put into one place so no one has to go digging around to find which Incarnation they're looking for. Because I'm sure that there are some ppl who don't know about the Incarnations revealed so having a place with all of them that you can just link them too would be beneficial.
     
  3. Meow-Professor

    Meow-Professor Getting back into the swing of things Beginner Mod

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    I hope you don't mind if I direct lore discussion here; it is a good resource for the topic.
     
  4. chillbean

    chillbean wasting time

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    Sure no problem, lore speculation is fine in here.

    I've added Toko and George's bio's to the Incarnation section, as well as extra info to Naga Rider's section after Alex gave a bit more cool information on him during the reddit AMA, notably that he has a rival turned enemy called Garuda Cruel.
     
  5. chillbean

    chillbean wasting time

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    Updated the OP with the bio's of Baozhai, Antoine and Zahra. Baozhai being based on Ching Shih confirmed by Peter in a post towards the bottom of this page.

    Also updated relevant sections with bits and bobs of new info from this interview with Alex and Mike. The interview talks about art direction, combat design and Valkyrie Profile as well if anyones interested. Here's what i added:

    The city built with giant gears is from the Iron Kingdom, based on Victorian-era London.

    Lord Ravannavar’s forces are called the Navar State.

    Ravannavar granted incredible power, durability, and mastery in both magic and combat by Kala.

    While avenging her father and village is part of her motivations, Ajna's main driving force is doing the right thing with the power she has. Ajna is driven by a sense of duty and justice, and powered by mysterious abilities she has yet to fully understand.

    In order for Ajna to truly take Incarnations into herself, she has to gain a better understanding of what kind of people they are.
     
  6. Osmiumsmith

    Osmiumsmith Kahahahaha!

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    Really liked the world building.

    I am just a little worried about the old "West and technology are bad, mkay."

    I am all for showing other cultures. Not for showing other cultures as sacrosaints incapable of doing bad while only mine has bad sides.
     
  7. Gorilla Blade

    Gorilla Blade Eyebrow Gentleman

    I fail to see how only the west is shown in a bad light. The East treat people like Yan as monsters, the north think humans should not be the dominant species and the south is just an overall mess of war,vice and addiction.
     
  8. Osmiumsmith

    Osmiumsmith Kahahahaha!

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    Pardon my ignorance, but can you redirect me to the source of this information? I will be happy.
     
  9. Kai

    Kai Go Home And Be A Family Man! Beowulf

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    Well, the world is based on our own, and let's be perfectly honest: it wasn't the rest of the world colonizing Europe. For a good long time, "the West," was unilaterally extending its reach outward, to the detriment of many African, Middle Eastern, and Asian territories. The technology of Indivisible seems to be an anachronistic mish-mash of various parts of the colonial and industrial eras, so, you know... Western nations really are the, "bad guy," in this situation, insofar as entire nations are, "good," or, "bad."

    Which they're not, but, you know. They're the aggressors, at the very least, which is fairly universally regarded as a negative.

    I trust Alex to avoid the kind of insular, self-indulgent culture idolatry some might be afraid of.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2015
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  10. chillbean

    chillbean wasting time

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    Yeah it seems like each region is already fairly well fleshed out with its own problems, in a way that makes them potentially threatening but not completely unsympathetic. For example, the Iron Kingdom seems to be left an impression on a lot of the revealed incarnations already and is invading both the North and South, but the West's aggressive efforts to expand are driven by unforeseen pollution damaging their ecology. Furthermore, their technological advantage is solely down to luck of Kala's remains landing in the West, prior to this they were probably considered a weak nation, especially when you consider the fact that their neighboring regions have Golath aggressors and bullet proof Rakshasha.

    I wouldn't worry about having the West or technology being portrayed as some objectively bad thing. Alex preciously said that since the game takes place from the point of view of a 'south east asian'/south loka protag, the West would be viewed as the exotic and alien culture, as opposed to the east as in most western media. But considering that Ajna has to gain an understanding of someone's point of view in order for them to become an incarnation, and George and Antoine are both from the west, I'm not expecting solely these characters to be portrayed as 'bad' while the others are 'incapable of doing bad', especially when 'Unity' has been stated to be an overaching theme of the game.
    Dhar is a good example of this not being the case. Naga Rider and Lanshi are hinted at having dodgy pasts. The South has the Navar state and a drug ring and the East is described as isolationist.

    So yeah I think there are a lot of good early signs that the story will be fairly even handed in that respect.
     
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  11. Osmiumsmith

    Osmiumsmith Kahahahaha!

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    Actually everybody was playing the colonization game. The muslim nations actually did a lot of europe colonization (Portugal and Spain had to be reconquered, the crusades were done because the byzantine empire asked for help, east europe served as a cushion between east and the west, there were a lot of white slavery). Besides killing each other for disagreeing who was the correct heir of muhammad.

    In the americas, there were HORRID human sacrifices, slavery canibalism and warring natives.

    Eastern Asia. Rampaging mongols and huns, communist China, Japan's unity 731, India's caste system.

    Africa. People vs People vs Nature. Slavery. What kept population low wasn't common sense or laziness. It was malaria and other diseases, famine and war.

    Europe. Feudalism, dirty peasants, colonialism, slavery and black plague.

    What happened is that at some time the west got the better toys and crashed the game. Thankfully among these western murder stuff, dictators and conquerors there were people who fought for equality, liberty and fraternity for all. And while christianity has bad stuff like corrupted priests, buying your way to heaven and making people sheep-minded it also has a powerfull message of love, of charity and if you read it well of actively fighting evil (Jesus and angels fighting in the apocalypse).

    And about technology. I hope this isn't going to be a Captain Planet thing.

    Technology and to be fair, every action, have both positve and negative environmental impacts. It is not a zero sum though. What we do in environmental engineering is an analysis of which impacts an action will do and perform the ones with best positive ratios. Which is difficult, because it is really hard to foresee all the consequences of everything specially considering global issues.

    Take the natives of Brazil (my country). Do you think they want to go back to the wild? Do you know how hard it is to make a canoo without metal instruments. What do you use? A jagged rock, your hands, the teeth of a jaguar that you wrestled?
     
  12. Kai

    Kai Go Home And Be A Family Man! Beowulf

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    The world being a terrible, unfair place for most people is a given, but as far as colonization goes, the taking of Christian Iberia is most assuredly not colonization. The entire idea of a colony relies on the harvesting or production of resources for use by the controlling government entity, in order to strengthen it. In the case of Iberia, an independent Islamic government body formed after only 40 years of being there, and an entirely new caliphate was eventually formed, and then a kingdom. They never existed to send resources back to Damascus.

    Not to mention, Reconquista succeeded in 1492, the same year that we generally accept the colonial era to have begun.

    I agree that it's very common for some people to fetishize pre-industrial life as some sort of holistic, spiritual utopia, but I just have to trust that Lab Zero won't present such a cliche and reductive viewpoint.
     
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  13. Osmiumsmith

    Osmiumsmith Kahahahaha!

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    Christian Iberia was taken by force (I tried to make an analogy). But you are right, it was not a colony

    I really hope so too.As a guy who studied environmental engineering at university, I really hope for that.
     
  14. BallotBoxer

    BallotBoxer you're gonna carry that salt

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    Saw this question by @MelodyofE and thought to chime in my opinion.
    A less contradictory way of rewording this would be these rules:
    • Outside the Inner Realm, Incarnations manifest as normal. As in, not ghosts but solid, living, and breathing life forms.
    • Incarnations can not be away from the Inner Realm indefinitely. They must return, eventually. How long is not determined.
    • Incarnations can only leave the Inner Realm with Ajna's permission.
    I speculate that this is where we learn what the indivisible in the title means. The Incarnations are indivisible from Ajna. They can never truly separate after merging.

    So in answer to the original question, I think Shantae and the others are stuck. There's no going back... at least until the end where Ajna may gain control of her powers or some special event allows otherwise.

    Makes me wonder about the specifics. Like take Dhar, for instance. Ajna let's him out and he tries to run. We know there is a time limit, but is there a distance limit? Do stray Incarnations run out of power and snap back to the Inner Realm, or just collapse and start to fade?
     
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  15. MelodyofE

    MelodyofE New Member

    Well I hope you are incorrect, or at least correct on the last part where eventually she learns the ability to release the people that have "joined" her. It's too... morbid for me otherwise. Especially with Shantae in there. I love Shantae so much. I know her appearance is just a cross-over cameo that is non-Canon in the Shantae-verse, but still the concept of her in that situation would stick with me too much..... Yes I take stories a little too seriously. My empathy levels are high :P

    In truth though, since she doesn't fully understand her powers, I feel like since she can summon them into the real world, releasing them is something she can do, she just doesn't know how to. (Or know that it's even possible.) That'd be a good plot point later is that she learns she can release them, but is reluctant because she's gotten so used to them being in her inner realm. If I have correct what I've read about her personality, if that's the case she would release them, but it'd be cool to see how she deals with the struggle and, in the end, being alone in her inner realm again. Then we'd get the cool scene where she releases them and they stick with her to help in the final conflict anyway or something like that. A little cliche, perhaps, but awesome none the less.
     
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  16. Meow-Professor

    Meow-Professor Getting back into the swing of things Beginner Mod

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    I actually really like the idea that this is permanent. It can lead to a lot of stuff I'd like to see; Ajna feeling guilty for locking away the people she accidentally absorbed and because of that basically ruining their chances of a normal life, the incarnations themselves dealing with the fact that they are never going to separate from Ajna, stuff like that. I feel like it can lead to some darker scenes that really explore how the characters are feeling, which I always like.
    Never play Undertale. It's a game that made me not want to play it again because the characters I loved so much told me they were happy and didn't want you to play through it again to reset that.
     
  17. MelodyofE

    MelodyofE New Member

    Ah I gotcha. Well I don't like the darker stuff so I hope you don't mind me rooting against that :P. I'm a lighter guy. I don't mind things getting dark for a bit so long as there is light in the end. Besides, you can get a lot of that (exploring the darker side of emotions such as that guilt by say, having the audience and her believe it's permanent for a while) while still having her eventually discover the ability to let them go. Best of both worlds ^.^

    As for undertale, I already plan to not play it for that exact reason. I think the game makers are just trying to be funny, but I don't appreciate their meta joke trying to make me feel bad for wanting to play the game again. :P
     
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  18. Cheesedragon

    Cheesedragon I like to eat cake while excruciating.

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    Is it legal to retoast this from the main thread? Cause i'm retoasting it.

    Show Spoiler

    New Page! I can finally post this!

    Sooooo, when i first read Dhar's story i was curious as fuck as to what "Pro-Kala rule" could possibly mean. (What's their stance on immigration? kek.) But one day i was digging up conspiracies as usual and i came up with this stuff. It's Hindu scripture pertaining to the "Kali Yuga" or "Age of Kali/Vice", the final times before justice is re-established and the cycle of Yugas/Ages starts over:

    Show Spoiler
    “The wife of Irreligion was named Falsehood. She was very beautiful, and had eyes like those of a cat. They had a son named Pride, who was always very angry and energetic. Pride had a sister named Illusion, and within her womb, she begot a son named Greed and a daughter named Cunning. Greed begot a son named Anger in the womb of Cunning. Envy, was Anger’s sister. From the womb of Envy, Anger begot a son named KALI. Kali is always seen to be holding his genitals in his left hand”. “Kali’s abdomen is like that of a crow, his face is frightening to behold, and his tongue is red and appears to be full of greed. Kali is very fond of playing chess, drinking wine, enjoying the company of prostitutes and associating with gold merchants. “ “Kali’s sister was Harsh Speech. From her womb, Kali begot a son named Fear and a Daughter named Death. Fear begot a son named Hell, from the womb of Death and Hell begot ten thousand sons in the womb of his sister, Excessive Pain. Thus I have described the progeny of Kali, who were all blasphemous of genuine religious principles. “ “All these relatives of Kali were the destroyers of sacrifice, study of the Vedas. They were reservoirs of mental distress, disease, old age, sorrow, lamentation and fear. “ “These descendant of Kali are found wandering everywhere throughout the kingdom of Kali, destroying the people of the world. They are misguided by the influence of time, very restless by nature, full of lusty desires, extremely sinful, very proud, and violent even to their own father and mother. “ “These fallen souls are very fond of dry arguments, and they use religion as a means of livelihood, as a profession. They are fallen from the execution of their vows, and sell wine and other abominable things, including meat. They are cruel by nature, and very fond of gratifying their bellies and genitals. For this reason, they lust after the wives of others and are always seen intoxicated. They were not born of a mother and father who were properly married, and they are short in height and always engaged in sinful acts, such as cheating others. They generally reside in a sacred place, live for only 16 years, associate with wretched people and only consider brother in law to be friend or relative. “ “The people of Kali-yuga are accustomed to quarreling and fighting amongst themselves. They go to great lengths to groom their hair, wear their best of clothes and decorate themselves with costly ornaments.“ “In Kali yuga a person with a lot of money will naturally be respected as a great soul. In Kali yuga people will blasphemy a spiritual master or other elderly person without hesitation. Indeed, people will become hypocrites, liars and cheaters. “ “In Kali yuga, the low character people will accept charity from others, or else plunder other’s wealth without discrimination. Mutual agreement will become the sole criteria for solemnizing the marriage of a boy and a girl. People will show sympathy and magnanimity, but will simply be a form of duplicity. Forgiveness will be granted only when a person is unable to harm the offending party. In a society of might makes right, people will easily become annoyed with those in a weaker position. Even fools will be very talkative in attempt to prove they are learned. People will engage in religious ceremonies, but simply to acquire a reputation. If one has wealth, he will be considered a saint. “ “The Earth will restrict the production of grains. The currents of rivers will flow very rapidly, and even married women will behave little better than prostitutes, because they will practically have no attachment to their husbands. Women will become promiscuous, s that they will be easily abandoned by their husbands. Clouds will shower rain very irregularly, and the land will not have sufficient crops. Kings will whimsically kill and torture their subjects, and burden them with excessive taxes. Such unfortunate subjects will finally take their family and belongings and take shelter of mountains and dense forests. The people of Kali yoga will sustain their lives by eating flesh, honey, fruit and roots, without discrimination. Almost everyone will take pleasure in blaspheming the Supreme Lord, Shri Kirishna. These are some of the symptoms that will manifest at the beginning of the Kali yoga.“ “In the second quarter of Kali Yuga, people will no longer chant the Holy names of Lord Krishna. In the third quarter of the Kali Yuga, there will be an upsurge of unwanted population, and in the final quarter of of Kali yuga there will be only one class of human beings, because God consciousness will have long be forgotten.“ “When the study of the Vedas, performance of sacrifice, chanting of mantras and other religious practices thus disappear from this world during Kali yuga, the demigods, being afflicted due to not receiving their share of sacrificial offerings, will take shelter of Lord Brahma, the grandfather of the universe, and expressed their concerns. “ (after one chapter in which Heavenly abodes were described, with flowers and birds). In next chapter Lord Vishnu decides to take an incarnation to remove the Kali from Earth, and bring back justice to people. “My mission will be to eliminate the wicked Kali, with the help of my four brothers” “ O demigods. Your expansions should also take birth on the Earth to assist me in My mission. My consort will also take birth on Earth as my wife, Padma. “ “O, Demigods, do not delay. By your plenary portions, take birth on the Earth. Later on, I will entrust the responsibility for ruling the Earth to two powerful Kings named Maru and Devapi” “I will then again re establish Satya-yuga, and thus reinstate the principles of religion as they were before. Rest assured that I will return only after destroying the poisonous snake, Kali.” The next chapters describe the birth of Lord Kalki on Earth, his family, his childhood ceremonies. Followed by his marriage to Padma. Then, the fight with Kali, and then reestablishing peace and justice on Earth.

    Man, this really makes me hope Ajna succeeds in her mission. (to "punch Kala/Kali in the face"?) Maybe she is supposed to be one of the "four brothers/demigods" described here? Or the offspring of one? Also, i just realized Toko's lore could be related too.
    Show Spoiler
    Also, anyone else reminded of "modern" times by this text? ;)

     
  19. Tank

    Tank Well-Known Member

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    I wonder what the non-toned down versions of Thorani and Yan looked like.
     
  20. Cheesedragon

    Cheesedragon I like to eat cake while excruciating.

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    This I REALLY need to know. I assume/hope boobs for days.
     
  21. PsychoCyclone95

    PsychoCyclone95 New Member

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    I hope Gaijin Goombah does a Game Exchange episode on Indivisible. Wouldn't that be cool?
     
  22. Tank

    Tank Well-Known Member

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    That's gonna be like 2 years down the road.
     
  23. Kai

    Kai Go Home And Be A Family Man! Beowulf

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    Here, I'll spoil it for you.
    Show Spoiler
    "Hey guys, Japan is pretty much the coolest place ever, I lived there for a while and it was the best. Let me tell you about it!"
    You're welcome.
     
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  24. PsychoCyclone95

    PsychoCyclone95 New Member

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    Dude, don't be a troll.
     
  25. MellowMarz

    MellowMarz New Member

    Does anyone get an Avatar:TLAB and Korra vibe from how the story begins for Ajna?

    Sent from my LG-M210 using Tapatalk
     
  26. KaboomKid

    KaboomKid My fate is sealed. I have... nochoice.

    Kind of. Although, from the lore we know, there doesn't seem to be a "Fire Nation" yet. The most immediate threat to Ajna's home at the beginning is from her own region, so that's like shuffling the start of TLA with the Water Nation's civil unrest from Korra S2.

    It'll be interesting to see if the Lokan regions stay mostly gridlocked in their internal struggles during Ajna's quest or not. Ravannavar seems like the most equipped for a global takeover, but his success might depend on how fragile his pact is with Kala.
     
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  27. Shan

    Shan Common Rider

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    Isn't there the Iron Kingdom for the Fire Nation equivalent though ? With the whole evil mechanical empire thing.
     
  28. KaboomKid

    KaboomKid My fate is sealed. I have... nochoice.

    Well, supposedly one of the big motivations for the Iron Kingdom's spread is to fortify the world against Kala, and that probably includes fighting against forces like Ravannavar's army.

    So from Ajna's point of view, the Iron Kingdom might look like the good guys, at least from the beginning.
     
  29. Cheesedragon

    Cheesedragon I like to eat cake while excruciating.

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    I'd love to see that whole thing subverted though, by either getting a more noble ruler elected or discovering some more sustainable magitech-type technology, with either event occurring completely without Ajna's influence, or at least without any kind of Generic Rebellion she could or would throw.
     
  30. Shan

    Shan Common Rider

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    Reading the lore information again and

    This is what intrigues me the most. Really curious to see those refugees from another world, what they look like and how they'll tie into the plot. I'm guessing they might turn out to be quite important.
     
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  31. HiroProtagonest

    HiroProtagonest Active Member

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    It's the Chozo.
     
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  32. KaboomKid

    KaboomKid My fate is sealed. I have... nochoice.

    Yeah, I want to see where the Golath fit in too. They seem like the closest thing to a neutral party, but with all of these different wars happening around them, I wonder if they might be resorting to their own plans of survival.

    I also wonder if they're affected by things like the reincarnation cycle Alex described, where they could get reborn as demons like the other races can, or if being aliens excludes them from the world's natural order. There are a lot of interesting questions with them.

    Speaking of lore, I hope the upcoming Beta might dip into a bit of it, with like a prologue or maybe some story related dialogue. I'm really curious to see how they're envisioning the story to unfold in the game itself, and it'd be great for players to get a taste of the depth of this world since the Prototype didn't share as much.
     
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  33. Shan

    Shan Common Rider

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    Same i do hope we get some plot in the beta .
    The setting seems super deep and cool it's a shame so far we didnt got much about it bar streams with Alex .
     
  34. Cheesedragon

    Cheesedragon I like to eat cake while excruciating.

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    Upcoming beta? Have they said anything?
     
  35. Shan

    Shan Common Rider

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    I forgot but wasn't one on the works for this summer ? I remember seeing this mentionned several time.
     
  36. Ninja

    Ninja [Jazzy Diamonds]

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    ll we know is that there will be a beta at some point. So that people who backed the game at 30 bucks or more will get flavor flave tastes of how characters and platforming will feel.

    oh and pretty graphicssssssss
     
  37. KaboomKid

    KaboomKid My fate is sealed. I have... nochoice.

    Yeah, Mike said they were aiming for summer when he was asked about it on the MeleeEveryday stream a few months ago, and recently Peter's said they're working on stuff for it, so we'll see how it goes. It'll be cool to see Ajna finally explore outside of the Prototype level.

    Bringing that back to the Lore topic, do you guys have any environments you're looking forward to exploring? Personally, I loved the concepts for Fortress Vimana, so I can't wait to see how that turns out. I also hope we get to drop by the Basin of Milk and see what that looks like.
     
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  38. Shan

    Shan Common Rider

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    Really looking forward to see what the other regions look like, the West and its Iron Empire are really interesting to me, i expect some Gesthal empire like architecture mixed with old european architecture.
    Likewise looking forward to see the North, concept arts i saw looked really cool, very colorful and beautiful.

    The fortress Vimana really looks good, reminds me of the Black Omen a bit lol
     
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  39. Ninja

    Ninja [Jazzy Diamonds]

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    i almost expect the iron kingdom to have some kind of steampunk side to it. I mean look at Kampang [best girl] and her Fist Gauntlet. so steampunkish.
     
  40. Shan

    Shan Common Rider

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    Yeah thats what i mean by Gestalh empire :p
    btw Kampan stole that iron fist right? I forgot... I wonder how sneaky she could be with a thing like that
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2017 at 3:07 PM

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