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USA [May 27-29] Combo Breaker 2016 (Chicago, IL)

@Broken Loose + @Dolfinh or @mcpeanuts for top 8 would be awesome imo

*Permitting no players above are in top 8.

Then top 64/32/16 can be everyone else on rotation. Rotating in top 8 can be distracting and should be avoided if possible.
 
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zarkingphoton said:
Well, you're wrong.
We're... not talking to the thousands of stream viewers? Can they not hear us? This is news to me. Well, in that case, we shouldn't bother considering their effect on our game's growth or long-term strength.
keninblack said:
@Broken Loose + @Dolfinh or @mcpeanuts for top 8 would be awesome imo
This is a far more viable option, having Broken Loose and one of either Peanuts or Dolfin. This essentially aligns with what I've been talking about this whole time, two commentators with opposite and complementary styles.
 
Kai said:
We're... not talking to the thousands of stream viewers?
I always thought you were talking directly to me...
 
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Kai said:
I agree that both dolfin and peanuts are very knowledgeable, and among the best commentators we have..

good

Kai said:
I do not agree that two soft-spoken,

have you listened to them commentate?

Kai said:
We have to put on a show

have you listened to them commentate?
Peanuts and Dolfin get plenty excited on the mic.

(Possibly) more importantly, like you said we need to put on a good performance for all viewers. Last year's top 8 commentary was 2 players who were not technically focused and did not say much other than yell about what was happening on the screen. It gives a bad impression to other communities when our commentators don't understand the game at a high level. Dolfin and peanuts may not be as loud in terms of decibels as you and POS but they're no less enthusiastic, "soft-spoken" is certainly not how i would describe their commentary, and they provide a very good insight into the game that anyone can appreciate.
 
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Kai said:
I agree that both dolfin and peanuts are very knowledgeable, and among the best commentators we have. I do not agree that two soft-spoken, technically-focused commentators is the right call for a grand finals, or any match, really. Every commentary pair will be talking to more than just the people here. We have to put on a show for all the viewers.

What player audiences are you worried about not reaching. There's like:

- Us, who want gameplay analysis.
- Players who are familiar with SG but not at the event, who want gameplay analysis and some play by play.
- Players who are not really familiar with SG, who want gameplay analysis and some explanation of the system mechanics so they can understand how it differs from other fighting games.
- Players with zero familiarity with SG or Fighting Games, who aren't going to know what's going on regardless of what's being said on commentary. They can watch the lifebars and that's probably the best extent that they know about the game.

In most cases, you want gameplay analysis and people who speak well. It's much easier for someone like Me or McPeanuts to fix something related to energy or talking fundamentals or to spend more time on the games' mechanics to explain to people less familiar with them then it is to ask someone who is well spoken but has little to no game knowledge or support.

But now that I know people think i'm soft spoken expect a lot of improvement from me and my energy for the next WYL / Party Python Tournament (along me fixing my tendency to go at 32o89432897893453werihsfheduhdfsffshdkjksdfksdhksdfsd speed commentary). Also I'm thinking of doing some commentated / strimmed lobbies specifically to work on some of my commentary.
Also broken loose I love you to death and want to touch your privates (in a straight way of course) but I really only enjoy your commentary when it's with McPeanuts.
That said, my general view on trying to put on a show for people outside of the SGC / FGC is that if you just focus on making the best experience for the community, growth will follow. Focusing something on appeal to newcomers is dangerous imo.

Also I agree, PLEASE keep the same commentators for Top 8, whoever they end up being.

I don't think POS should be on commentary even if he goes, also (Sorry POS I love you)
 
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Pickles said:
Last year's top 8 commentary was 2 players who were not technically focused and did not say much other than yell about what was happening on the screen. It gives a bad impression to other communities when our commentators don't understand the game at a high level. Dolfin and peanuts may not be as loud in terms of decibels as you and POS but they're no less enthusiastic, "soft-spoken" is certainly not how i would describe their commentary, and they provide a very good insight into the game that anyone can appreciate.
Pairing POS and myself was absolutely a bad decision, one that I'm not going to repeat again to either extreme. I have watched commentary from everyone currently being discussed. I have also read youtube comments, twitch chat, reddit comments, and forum posts talking about said commentary, when available. I am basing this on all of those things, and not just what I want, or what the 25 people talking in this thread want.

If we followed the same logic as every other SG event, this wouldn't even be a discussion, it would simply be the local players commentating (as with NEC, CEO, NWM, etc). Funny how when I open it up to try and make it better than all that, you feel like that's a good opportunity to just cut Midwest out entirely.

Dolfinh said:
It's much easier for someone like Me or McPeanuts to fix something related to energy or talking fundamentals or to spend more time on the games' mechanics to explain to people less familiar with them then it is to ask someone who is well spoken but has little to no game knowledge or support.
First off: you really think it's easier to fix a lifetime's worth of vocal habits, than to learn a video game? Flip the switch then, Jarred.

Second of all, I feel like we need to play each other or something, because I'm pretty much done having you tell me I don't know shit. All I have is praise for you, with an added caveat about what kind of co-commentators might work best, and all you've got for me is shade? You think I'm just lucky? That I have no idea what I'm doing? Me and Peanuts went out in the same round at Frosty. Does he not know shit?
 
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Kai said:
If we followed the same logic as every other SG event, this wouldn't even be a discussion, it would simply be the local players commentating (as with NEC, CEO, NWM, etc).

This year's NEC was not local players. CEO was local players because literally 8 people went to that event. CEOtaku was Broken Loose + Peanuts because they're an amazing commentary duo. NWM was going to be me + hilary (and it was also me + goose for most of pools) but then I ended up making top 8 and goose volunteered to step in for me. Commentary isn't about who's local or who's running the scene.

Funny how when I open it up to try and make it better than all that, you feel like that's a good opportunity to just cut Midwest out entirely

Commentary isn't by default to local residents / scene organizers. Commentary usually ends up being the best commentators available. It was never about the "home players" of a region. In fact, I would suggest avoiding ANY sort of community status and/or "work put into a scene" as a reason for someone to commentate. Once you make Commentary about community status, you open up an entire world of politics that I am certain the SGC will be better off not dealing with. If you want to see a glimpse of how that would turn out, the anime FGC goes nuts anytime Dacidbro or Hellpockets commentate anything ever. I've seen this shit divide communities and generate beef that I DO NOT want the SGC to have to put up with. Way too much of a family to me for that to happen.

I am of EXTREMELY strong belief that Commentary should be about picking the strongest commentators available. No other factor should go into it.

In my opinion for CB this leaves BLoose / Peanuts, Blaise/Warped, Myself depending on who else is available, Kenin (if he even goes and if he does go does not end up making top 8/16/whatever) I like Dhoppler's analysis but homie's gotta speak up. Haven't heard enough from datagram. Again, my opinion.
 
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I don't think I have anything else to say on the topic that dolfin hasn't already but one thing I do want to draw attention to is that I think commentator synergy as a duo is important. I think peanuts and dolfin are good commentators, I like the peanuts/ BL duo. I wouldn't put dolfin and BL on together because they don't have that same chemistry. Just saying I don't think "pick hype man, pick analyst" is necessarily the right choice.
 
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ShadeMoneh said:
hey
Even as I typed it, I knew.

And God help me, I left it :|
Dolfinh said:
This year's NEC was not local players. CEO was local players because literally 8 people went to that event. CEOtaku was Broken Loose + Peanuts because they're an amazing commentary duo. NWM was going to be me + hilary (and it was also me + goose for most of pools) but then I ended up making top 8 and goose volunteered to step in for me. Commentary isn't about who's local or who's running the scene.
So what your saying is... yes, all those events (save for only this year's NEC) had local commentators. So that's only natural for those events, but for CB, come on Kai you're being unreasonable. Ok.
 
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You know what? You're all welcome for the couple years of keeping viewers entertained and engaged with the game they're watching on stream.

Have fun with your careening stream views.
 
Kai said:
First off: you really think it's easier to fix a lifetime's worth of vocal habits, than to learn a video game? Flip the switch then, Jarred.

Nothing but confidence in my ability to improve my vocal habits.

Second of all, I feel like we need to play each other or something, because I'm pretty much done having you tell me I don't know shit. All I have is praise for you, with an added caveat about what kind of co-commentators might work best, and all you've got for me is shade? You think I'm just lucky? That I have no idea what I'm doing? Does he not know shit?
You're taking this a lot more personally than anything that I've ever said to you has been about. So far all I've done is give you honest feedback about frosty commentary which included you not

Me and Peanuts went out in the same round at Frosty.
I also outplaced players such as Lethalmind, WarpedEcho, Negus_Eyoel, TempleNut, ShadeMoneh, and Beamsprouts at NEC15. All six of those players were better than me at the time. I also placed 5th at EVO above Biz Casual, Negus, Beamsprouts, and Fosh even though they were all stronger players than me at the time. It's about the players you go through that determine a strong performance imo. I would argue that none of my tournament results have ever meant anything because the strongest player I've ever beaten in tournament is Biz Casual. I would argue tournament results have almost nothing to do with game knowledge. I'm going off the fact Peanuts game knowledge shows in his commentary, and yours does not. Maybe you were doing this because you wanted dhoppler to handle the analytical stuff and then just provide support to it, which is fine. But then it's a problem where Dhoppler doesn't want to speak up by the time he's ready to talk about what just happened something else happens that you want to jump into (which happens a lot in sg in general because this game is WILD). Playing wouldn't help prove anybody's point but i'll play regardless because it's SG.

Please don't take anything personally. NONE of this has meant to be negative stigma towards you as a person or an organizer.
 
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Dolfinh said:
You're taking this a lot more personally than anything that I've ever said to you has been about.
Ok, fine. How was I supposed to take you saying I had little to no game knowledge?
 
Kai said:
Ok, fine. How was I supposed to take you saying I had little to no game knowledge?
As a thing about your commentary and not you as a person? You can criticize someone's work/project/whatever you want to call it and have it be personal. I love trihex to death as a person but I think he's horrible at speedrunning.
 
Dude, nobody's talking about anyone as a person. We're only talking about commentary and game knowledge. Please don't try and redirect like that.
Dolfinh said:
Playing wouldn't help prove anybody's point but i'll play regardless because it's SG.
Don't do that. Don't punch out preemptively. You should body me 7-0 because I don't know the game, I'm just loud.
 
Kai said:
Dude, nobody's talking about anyone as a person. We're only talking about commentary and game knowledge. Please don't try and redirect like that.

I genuinely can't tell if you're trying to mock me or if you're saying this genuinely. In either case I'm just extremely confused. That said...

All I have is praise for you, with an added caveat about what kind of co-commentators might work best, and all you've got for me is shade? You think I'm just lucky? That I have no idea what I'm doing?
The fact that you're responding like this and making assumptions about what I think about you despite them not being things that I've ever said (or thought for that matter) makes me think that you are taking this really personally. I get that it's just a result of being passionate about this but I genuinely hope that none of this is a personal attack on you.

Don't do that. Don't punch out preemptively. You should body me 7-0 because I don't know the game, I'm just loud.
I mean if you really want to play then sure I guess. Steam is Dolfinh, display name atm should just be "Eli"


EDIT: I would also say that this discussion should PROBABLY go onto discord/steam/not skullheart.
 
If Dolfinh doesn't feel chemistry on the mic with me, that's okay. There are a lot of opportunities and speakers, and I'd rather he be comfortable (whether that means getting comfortable with me over time or just partnering up with somebody else). Combo Breaker will have a plethora of people on the mic, I'm already going to be on the mic during at least a portion of 10v10, and I'd love to get some more regions represented on the mic if possible.

If Kai or me or Peanuts or Keninblack or POS or Worldjem or Cisco or whoever lacks a quality, we can pick an appropriate partner. That's called Directing, and it's how you put on any good show. I'm not willing to discount people from the mic as of current until we can't find good assists for them.
 
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Kai said:
So, who wants to do commentary?
I was supposed to last year, but SOMEBODY didn't give over... :^P

Kai said:
You should body me 7-0 because I don't know the game, I'm just loud.
Not that I am involved in this discussion at ALL, but there is a HUGE difference between knowing how to play and knowing how to talk about play. Commentary is just as much of a skill as playing. Mentioning that someone went for something they missed instead of just getting counterhit, knowing that an accidental move was a mis-input some-other-move-that-would-have-worked, that kind of thing.
 
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Can we have commentary discussion, even if this discussion is for this event, in another thread? I'd be more than happy to share input on the state of SG commentary and things but I don't want to clog up this thread with more of that when it seems to be it's own subject. Especially since it can apply to other majors/events and things as well.

And Kai/everyone else talking about Kai really shouldn't sell him out so short for his play either, cause he's proven to be a surprise on many occasions that you can't sleep on. Don't sell yourself short as "just a commentator" yet, dude. :P
 
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fenster said:
Can we have commentary discussion, even if this discussion is for this event, in another thread?

I think that most of the conversation, while initially starting towards commentator recommendations for combo breaker specifically, has started to move towards commentary in general. Let's keep the posts talking about who you want for commentary at Combo Breaker and why, instead of focusing on commentary in general.

@Dolfinh, would you be willing to start another thread regarding commentary in general for the community and we can start the conversation there?

I made another thread geared towards commentary. Hopefully we can discuss it there.
 
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Can we please just be the game where both of our commentators are knowlegable about the game and neither of them are there just because "lol charisma"? What ever happened to Husband and Wife?
 
zarkingphoton said:
Can we please just be the game where both of our commentators are knowlegable about the game and neither of them are there just because "lol charisma"? What ever happened to Husband and Wife?
Read the commentary thread and you'll see that's what we're working towards. Hell, read this thread.
 
THE COMMENTARY GIST
Assuming we have the same amount of stream time as before.

POOLS 1 & 2
  • Lower Intensity
  • more analysis, less hype
TOP 16
  • Medium Intensity
  • analysis and hype in equal measures
TOP 8
  • Highest intensity
  • needs to play the crowd
  • cannot allow any dead air
  • less analysis, more hype
Saturday Night Salt
  • Casual, up-and-down intensity
  • played for fun and enjoyment
  • commentators should keep it light (e.g. joke more often) while still delivering useful information to viewers
 
[RK|e621] Fosh is now registered for Combo Breaker. :V

We've already got plenty of solid people for commentary it seems like, but I wouldn't mind throwing my hat in for a pools block specifically if the list isn't getting too crowded. Pools are a much more laidback setting where people can pick at technical stuff for a little longer than usual and I had a lot of fun with it at EVO.

[e] oh Kai posted something exactly about this right above me lol
 
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That sounds good to me. I think me and Fosh do nice laidback commentary. It's been a while but I've also commentate with datagram before at guts 3.

And Kai can we please talk on steam discord so I can make it clear that nothing I've said is meant to be a attack on you? Thanks.
 
Dolfinh said:
That sounds good to me. I think me and Fosh do nice laidback commentary. It's been a while but I've also commentate with datagram before at guts 3.

And Kai can we please talk on steam discord so I can make it clear that nothing I've said is meant to be a attack on you? Thanks.
I need to learn what discord is first. Is it like when you get your friends on the party line before going out on the town?
discording now
 
Kai said:
Pools 1
@Fosh
@Dolfinh
@Datagram
I haven't specifically commentated with Datagram before but I think we've had enough casual conversations that we could figure it out pretty quickly. And ofc Dolfy is the person I've commentated with the most out of anyone.

[e] Just realized I don't think I heard alexpi commentate before but if he's done Maxout commentary for a while I'm sure he can do a good job of it.
 
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tbh pools are whatever imo, obviously we don't want to throw random people on the mic but pools are a good chance for some of the newer commentators to cut their teeth.

For top 16/top8 though, ESPECIALLY top 8, I think that's where we bust out the "big guns" in commentary so to speak. Peanuts + BL should be on top8, I'd like to see top 3 or so be Kai/Taluda (taluda has a VERY good chance of being in top 8 and while I wouldn't count him out of top 3 it's less likely IMO but of course we'll see what happens). I would DEFINITELY say don't mark anyone down for commentary in top 16/8 until they've shown they work well together (looking at dhoppler/BL here, not to say I dont think you guys would work well together but get some experience as a pair first). I think mike + someone could be good for top 8, I don't think peanuts/kai have the synergy but that's my personal opinion
 
Kai said:
So, tell me what you agree with or don't agree with on that list.
Works for me. Might be worth having some backup plans in case the commentators for top 16 or top 8 make it that far in the tournament, though.

e: Another idea is me and BL for top 16 and Kai and Taluda for top 8, since a few people have said they like those pairings.
 
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re:people being in top 8/16

Of course, once we figure out where we can all at least kind of agree on commentators, then we'll assign alternates. Best practices, and all. Taluda's being very likely in the top 8 is why I haven;t put him down for anything past pools.

Also, it might be fun/useful to schedule some online sets that each new pair can commentate. Maybe give them something to warm up with, so that they could come back and give each other notes ("feel free to jump in anytime," or, "try not to talk over me so much,"), as well as take feedback from the rest of us.

I mean, all of us here, right now, are essentially in a production meeting. We, as a group, can make good plans and decisions that make the show that the other 99% see that much better, and maybe the best one at CB.
 
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Kai said:
re:people being in top 8/16

Of course, once we figure out where we can all at least kind of agree on commentators, then we'll assign alternates. Best practices, and all. Taluda's being very likely in the top 8 is why I haven;t put him down for anything past pools.

Eh, I think it's still worth penciling in Taluda for top 8 with the understanding that he'd probably need to be replaced with someone else. In the offchance he doesn't make it, that would be a really strong commentary pairing for top 8.

Kai said:
Also, it might be fun/useful to schedule some online sets that each new pair can commentate. Maybe give them something to warm up with, so that they could come back and give each other notes ("feel free to jump in anytime," or, "try not to talk over me so much,"), as well as take feedback from the rest of us.
This is a good idea!
 
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Re: Helping new pairs commentate for synergy and feedback ideas

Put a pair on maybe once or twice a month on PC Skullbats? It happens often enough that people would get multiple chances at commentating together before Combo Breaker so they can figure out what they need to work on. [While also giving them more commentary experience to get them more comfortable with what to do wrt commentating]
 
Fosh said:
Re: Helping new pairs commentate for synergy and feedback ideas

Put a pair on maybe once or twice a month on PC Skullbats? It happens often enough that people would get multiple chances at commentating together before Combo Breaker so they can figure out what they need to work on. [While also giving them more commentary experience to get them more comfortable with what to do wrt commentating]
Actually, I think we should probably move with a sense of urgency, on this. I see no reason why we can do one, like... tonight. And tomorrow. Or, I guess, yeah, people might be busy. But what I mean is, there's no time like the present. Once or twice a month won't even get use through all the available pairings.
 
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