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Alpha Counters

ThatOneOtherDude

ThatOneOtherDude

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ThatOneOtherDude
Valentine Filia Cerebella
With the addition of hitstop, it is really easy to super alpha counters on reaction. I would like for alpha counters to not be completely negated by this if possible. Not sure what the solution could be though since hitstop on alpha counters would probably be too good.
 
Maybe if your alpha counter couldn't cancelled from it could have some hit stop (Does it not already?)
Like if you tag in Filia and she uses updo, she can't cancel into Gregor for a BNB and full control.
Parasoul using Pillar, she can't use bikes until after the animation is finished, so she's open for punishment.
I guess this way your alpha counter is better but doesn't lead to a full combo, and resets back to neutral game.
I don't know how this would work out for the non-dp assists though, but those are the common assists to alpha counter into.

I wonder what it would like without the time freeze, and the point just sneakily slid out and was replaced like a regular tag out, you'd have to be paying a lot more attention to super that on reaction I bet.

I think Alpha counter is fine though and it usually gets the job done, you get your character out while they're in a really bad situation. Sometimes getting your point hit is better than blocking another .5 seconds of Filia mixup.

I'm not sure if I agree with any of this.... so they're just ideas for now.
 
As things are now, if you alpha counter you can get supered for free
 
Does that apply to stuff like Showstopper? I've never been counter-super'd for alpha countering into that.
 
it should if you're reacting to the alpha counter flash
 
Depends on the bella assist.
If you're using copter for example chances are its gonna get stuffed before it even does anything. But if you're using LNL you can cancel any absorbed hit into super, which is why you're probably not having problems being counter super'd for alpha countering.
 
AC's are pretty situational for me. I can usually not rely on them to punish strings because of threats of supers. Depending on the matchup you can get some air strings, though.

If it's a reversal AC usually I have to spend another meter to make it safe (pillar>bikes, butt>heads). PW has a great AC with cr.mp since you can charge or fly cancel it, making it a great option to tag in when in fullscreen chip trouble.

One instance where AC is good is against cat head pressure. If they go for slide, teacup, or anything like that it's a free AC to pillar.

As far as what to change, I don't think hitstop would be too good, espcially if the blocking-if-you-can-block-in-hitstop thing stays. Would be very good though, but you are spending a meter
 
But since they put you in blockstun, wouldn't they have an attack active?
 
I have a question actually. Do alpha counters have vulnerable frames before the move starts? I tried to alpha counter into H Brass Knuckles last night vs @dekillsage and I was expecting the 2 hits of armor to absorb his attack, but I just got stuffed.
 
Not sure what you're asking.
 
konkrete said:
Not sure what you're asking.
Well normally I don't get hit out of armor attacks. But when I used an attack with armor as an alpha counter, I got hit out of it. And that's weird.
 
I was referencing what @ThatOneOtherDude was asking. I thought AC's did have a small bit of added invul.
 
Brass either doesn't have armor during its start up after ACing, or you just got hit by too many catheads and it beat your armor. Try just mashing super after ACing and see if you absorbed any hits before the super came out.
 
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konkrete said:
I was referencing what @ThatOneOtherDude was asking. I thought AC's did have a small bit of added invul.
You said hitstop on ACs wouldn't be too good if the "blocking-if-you-can-block-in-hitstop" thing stays, but you have to be in blockstun to ac and if you're in blockstun that means they attacked you. If they are attacking, they can't block.
 
I'd support hitstop on Alpha Counters seeing that you're spending a bar and it briefly pauses the game, just like a super would
 
ThatOneOtherDude said:
You said hitstop on ACs wouldn't be too good if the "blocking-if-you-can-block-in-hitstop" thing stays, but you have to be in blockstun to ac and if you're in blockstun that means they attacked you. If they are attacking, they can't block.

Sometimes (mostly) true, but not if you AC an assist, or the move you AC to is slow enough that the attacker recovers before the AC'ed move is active and after hitstop ends, or if PS cancels into RC soldier in time, or PW goes to install, etc etc. You could also give it less hitstop. Still hella good.
 
Hit-stop alpha counters would be nice. The flash pretty much makes it like the sde counter super situation.
 
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mcpeanuts said:
I have a question actually. Do alpha counters have vulnerable frames before the move starts? I tried to alpha counter into H Brass Knuckles last night vs @dekillsage and I was expecting the 2 hits of armor to absorb his attack, but I just got stuffed.
If you mean additional 2 vulnerable frames like assists get, then no. Alpha Counters do the move the frame you land.
 
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The flash exists partially to cover loading times on console, and partially to look nice; it's not going away.

Alpha counters have 10f of time when the incoming character is jumping in (and invincible) but the opponent can still act.
Since alpha counters can be done during hitstop (blockstop, I guess) that helps prevent things like: they touch you, you alpha counter, they're stuck in place, you land and cancel into a super they can't avoid even if it has startup. This was reasonably common in MvC2 with the characters that could do it, like Juggernaut, and before the game came out it was proven to be insanely good with Showstopper and even just letting her 4f Diamond Drop connect.
I would be willing to look at things that would improve counters like shortening the reaction time where the opponent can move some, but what else ya got?
 
Mike_Z said:
Since alpha counters can be done during hitstop (blockstop, I guess) that helps prevent things like: they touch you, you alpha counter, they're stuck in place, you land and cancel into a super they can't avoid even if it has startup.
Make Alpha counters have a couple frames of hitstop, then make it so if you super cancel in those frames it cancels the hitstop and the opponent can counter super as if you DHC'd (so the hitstop on that super never shows). That way you can AC like you should be able to, they can't counter you like they shouldn't be able to, and you can't abuse the hitstop like you shouldn't be able to.
 
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Mike_Z said:
I would be willing to look at things that would improve counters like shortening the reaction time where the opponent can move some, but what else ya got?
You could give Alpha Counters MvC2 super flash that clears the opponent's input buffer. :PUN:

Real answer: 2f guaranteed startup invulnerability added to ACed moves, basically the opposite of assists (but not adding startup, just replacing the first 2f of the move). Should help against meaties and reaction shit? Then again, that probably won't be enough to cover for reaction supers, so if you wanted to you could stretch it to 5f or just add a point of armor.
 
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