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Any painwheel players please answer this.

Cadenza

Cadenza

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Parasoul Filia Double
ok after raging from ft10 with someone that plays painwheel, parasoul and get this...this FILIA....but here's the catch he doesn't know jack about filia NOTHING. but runs c mk. here's my problem

after some typical painwheel combo he drops it so i fall to the floor. then calls assist and does j HK the next 2 frames after the call.

here's my problem if i block low i get hit over head and in some cases he can do it midscreen hell he flies not even for a second calls assist(c mk) and does a close overhead.


question is WHAT DO I DO? i'm getting frustrated and am very close to breaking my controller for this sort of mess. i wish i can post a vid of the wtf was going on but alas i'm still a noob at this.

Edit: note that if this lands a fucking reset is now in motion.
 
ok so the same response...i give up for now cause this is a particularly frustrating set up in which i can't pushblock at all due to his timing so timing for absolute guard is just....ugh forget it.
 
Well, this is in the wrong place and needs to be moved to either the painwheel forum, or preferably merged into the matchup thread or something.

At original poster:


Its just a simple high/low hard to blockable. Whichever hits first you need to block and then you can block the rest of the hits since unblockable protection will kick in if its an unblockable. Of it isnt an unblockable but instead a "hard to blockable" the you should be able to see whether the high hits first or the low and then NEXT TIME block appropriately.

Also, you neglected to say what character you are using. It matters. That specific strategy can be VERY dangerous for the painwheel to do cause if you happen to be using oh say bell on point with double or painwheel behind.. You can super and then dhc into install and get an easy happy birthday since pw is open cause of j.hk and filia is open because assists cant block.

Also, if you have a team and the right partner, if you sniff this coming and read it correctly, you can just mash tag and get out for free. If you have like parasoul you can pillar, filia can Fenrir or updo, bella... Many many things fortune can hk fiber out etc etc etc


Look to your reversal options, look to your blocking options (see which attack hits first) iirc though dont quote me on painwheel, but the first hit of both of those attacks hits high and the rest hit mid or the first attack hits low and the rest hit mid. Ie if you block the first attack of filias low... Low, and then stand up immediately, the rest of the attacks will be autoblocked mid and the same with pw j,hk except in reverse and it doesnt matter whether its the first hit or the second or whatever... The first one that makes contact has to be guarded correctly and the the remainder of the hits become auto id... If the auto mid property is still in and never got removed or whatever.
 
I'm watching spiderman 2 ATM and after that I gotta fly to work... So probably not.
 
Thread moved to a more appropriate subforum
 
Dreamepitaph said:
well not now but sometime in the future? if not that's fine. i'll remain free to this set up. i'll keep this thread updated on whether or not i found a way out of this.
What character do you play as?
 
Dreamepitaph said:
well not now but sometime in the future? if not that's fine. i'll remain free to this set up. i'll keep this thread updated on whether or not i found a way out of this.
He answered your question and gave you tons of examples of stuff you can do against it. Just reversal, tag, or try and block it. It's not unblockable, and both their point character and assist are vulnerable to an invincible reversal during this setup
 
Icky said:
He answered your question and gave you tons of examples of stuff you can do against it. Just reversal, tag, or try and block it. It's not unblockable, and both their point character and assist are vulnerable to an invincible reversal during this setup
Icky, i tried the suggestion by doing another set with this guy
i play filia,fortune, squigly in retail but that;s not the point. the point is this. the answers given to me work to an extent.
to tell you the results are this.


DEPENDING on the delay of flight > jhk
if immediate obviously block high then switch low
if a moment delay you have to quickly decide to block low or high then IMMEDIATELY pushblock(50/50 of fail or success).
IF its two moments becomes the trickiest part but some of the easiest part. your best bet is to jump and block j hk essientially and dodge cr mk.

now here comes the problem. you can't reversal. not if its a moment delay(3 frames or so?) i've tried countless matches to get stuffed by either cr mk or j hk.
its not unblockable like i initially thought in the first 2 seconds it was ever used on me. but its by far the most dirtiest set up i've encountered fighting against painwheel so far.
 
Dreamepitaph said:
now here comes the problem. you can't reversal. not if its a moment delay(3 frames or so?) i've tried countless matches to get stuffed by either cr mk or j hk.
its not unblockable like i initially thought in the first 2 seconds it was ever used on me. but its by far the most dirtiest set up i've encountered fighting against painwheel so far.
Filia can do updo or super, fortune can do fiber upper or super, and squigly can do a charged dp or super. You CAN reversal. You can't meaty invincible moves. Just mash out your reversal when you know he's going for the mixup.
 
Dreamepitaph said:
its by far the most dirtiest set up i've encountered fighting against painwheel so far.

Give it time.

We all fight Taluda eventually.
 
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Icky said:
Filia can do updo or super, fortune can do fiber upper or super, and squigly can do a charged dp or super. You CAN reversal. You can't meaty invincible moves. Just mash out your reversal when you know he's going for the mixup.

i literally mashed super hard. no dice. though if the setup was a bit mistimed i can mash out to freedom however it can also be bait since her ....aerial super catches well that's what i get for using gregor
 
not sure if this is helpful, but everytime i lost as painwheel it was because the other player didnt mash and read me like a storybook.

so...I'd suggest not letting painwheel hit you from the air.Or while jumping.grab as much as you can, also noticed some grabs beat her attacks on the ground.overheads arent good for painwheel players.some hatred install moves can be smashed right through.
 
Dreamepitaph said:
i literally mashed super hard. no dice. though if the setup was a bit mistimed i can mash out to freedom however it can also be bait since her ....aerial super catches well that's what i get for using gregor
Mashing is an ancient technique that is learned with time.
But in all seriousness, I would Napalm pillar out of that setup every time once I saw the assist arriving, and you can't mash that because it's a charge move.
Once you see the assist coming in you can start hitting reversals to beat that set up (Or get a conversion off it because Filia does that stuff with Gregor.)
Squiggly will have the hardest time dealing with this setup.
Remember, there's a very robust training mode with dummy recordings! You can set Painwheel to perform up to 3 random set-ups with c.MK that you've recorded and try getting out of them with blocking or reversals.
With a bit of practice you'll get better at handling these situations on your own.

Good luck!
 
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Dreamepitaph said:
True! i just want to expedite the process by fighting other PW players that might know of this set up. Thanks guys. i'll get back to this thread and see how the next set goes.

This is a very hard setup to get out of. Your timing has to be good if your attacker's timing is good. If the attacker's timing is bad, the setup isn't as powerful as it seems. Here's a few tips.

1. Assists are reactable. If you keep a peripheral eye for when Filia assist is being called, you can simply block PW as normal, and switch to crouch block at the very last moment. This doesn't guarantee that you'll block correctly, but the Painwheel on point is going to have to be nearly frame perfect with when j.HK connects. If j.HK connects too soon, you're blocking standing, then moving to crouching. If j.HK connects at the same time, or within a few frames of cr.MK, Unblockable-Protection kicks in and you get to block for free.

2. When people say "Mash Super" they don't really mean roughly mashing out the command. Try aiming for the reversal window. Try to be as deliberate as possible. You might find that your accuracy for reversals increases. It may be hard to react to a dropped PW combo in some cases. I do the same thing your opponent PW was doing, except with LK.Bomber. The advantage is on myself, because I will likely know if I botch a motion or timing window before you do. There are certain key "Fuck up" points that I have trouble with, so I turn them into reset opportunities.

3. There's very few situations where PW is doing a combo where she can simply fly into j.HK without leaving a big opening of "nothing". The reason for this is that flying from a grounded state is a 15 frame animation, flying into position for j.HK takes extra time, and the j.HK itself has a bit of startup. If you're not used to it, it feels quite quick, but once you get acclimated, it ends up always being reactable. Super PW on reaction every time.

If you can't, j.HK is in play. Once that happens, it has three major uses:

a. As a Crossup. This can take a lot of flight time to get PW into position if she's going for this from a standing state, even if she's cancelling s.HP on hit, the move that roughly grants the most frame advantage. Hatred Install's buff to flight speed makes this a much more viable option for Painwheel, as it shaves off precious frames that the defender would normally be using to react to this situation. If you really think j.HK is coming, you can also just jab her. I am notorious for jab disrespect. Jab into other normals can hit PW and the assist in many situations, and it leads to a full combo.
b. Catching a whiffed Pushblock. Kind of self explanatory. If you're pushblocking on prediction to something, PW can simply fly forward and throw out a late j.HK as a catchall. If you do nothing, it may even crossup. Yippeeeee.
c. Combined with a Low Assist. What you're dealing with. However, if you reaction Super, you can catch PW, AND her Assist. This is where DHCs are super useful, as you can turn one good Reversal into Mega-Mondo-Damage.

Low assists are simply crazy good. The trade-off is that they're fairly useless in Neutral, and they're sacrificing a slot of "zomg DP Assist". Take advantage of this and snap in Parasoul. Suddenly, he has NO assists that are good in neutral or on defense. Parasoul is also extra bad on incoming <3 <3 <3

Most PWs don't usually run lows because they've already sacrificed a DP assist slot by picking PW. Cruel Lily (Her cr.MP) is really good, but isn't really applicable in many matchups unless you get inside. Make him regret not picking Updo. Hoohoohoo. Low Assists with PW makes for some of the best offensive pressure in the game when used correctly.

Anyhow, that's all I have from my experiences as a PW player.
 
Krackatoa said:
This is a very hard setup to get out of. Your timing has to be good if your attacker's timing is good. If the attacker's timing is bad, the setup isn't as powerful as it seems. Here's a few tips.

1. Assists are reactable. If you keep a peripheral eye for when Filia assist is being called, you can simply block PW as normal, and switch to crouch block at the very last moment. This doesn't guarantee that you'll block correctly, but the Painwheel on point is going to have to be nearly frame perfect with when j.HK connects. If j.HK connects too soon, you're blocking standing, then moving to crouching. If j.HK connects at the same time, or within a few frames of cr.MK, Unblockable-Protection kicks in and you get to block for free.

2. When people say "Mash Super" they don't really mean roughly mashing out the command. Try aiming for the reversal window. Try to be as deliberate as possible. You might find that your accuracy for reversals increases. It may be hard to react to a dropped PW combo in some cases. I do the same thing your opponent PW was doing, except with LK.Bomber. The advantage is on myself, because I will likely know if I botch a motion or timing window before you do. There are certain key "Fuck up" points that I have trouble with, so I turn them into reset opportunities.

3. There's very few situations where PW is doing a combo where she can simply fly into j.HK without leaving a big opening of "nothing". The reason for this is that flying from a grounded state is a 15 frame animation, flying into position for j.HK takes extra time, and the j.HK itself has a bit of startup. If you're not used to it, it feels quite quick, but once you get acclimated, it ends up always being reactable. Super PW on reaction every time.

If you can't, j.HK is in play. Once that happens, it has three major uses:

a. As a Crossup. This can take a lot of flight time to get PW into position if she's going for this from a standing state, even if she's cancelling s.HP on hit, the move that roughly grants the most frame advantage. Hatred Install's buff to flight speed makes this a much more viable option for Painwheel, as it shaves off precious frames that the defender would normally be using to react to this situation. If you really think j.HK is coming, you can also just jab her. I am notorious for jab disrespect. Jab into other normals can hit PW and the assist in many situations, and it leads to a full combo.
b. Catching a whiffed Pushblock. Kind of self explanatory. If you're pushblocking on prediction to something, PW can simply fly forward and throw out a late j.HK as a catchall. If you do nothing, it may even crossup. Yippeeeee.
c. Combined with a Low Assist. What you're dealing with. However, if you reaction Super, you can catch PW, AND her Assist. This is where DHCs are super useful, as you can turn one good Reversal into Mega-Mondo-Damage.

Low assists are simply crazy good. The trade-off is that they're fairly useless in Neutral, and they're sacrificing a slot of "zomg DP Assist". Take advantage of this and snap in Parasoul. Suddenly, he has NO assists that are good in neutral or on defense. Parasoul is also extra bad on incoming <3 <3 <3

Most PWs don't usually run lows because they've already sacrificed a DP assist slot by picking PW. Cruel Lily (Her cr.MP) is really good, but isn't really applicable in many matchups unless you get inside. Make him regret not picking Updo. Hoohoohoo. Low Assists with PW makes for some of the best offensive pressure in the game when used correctly.

Anyhow, that's all I have from my experiences as a PW player.
oh....my god.... a detailed exploitation of painwheel (which isn't bad if i'm fighting a team with dp or other pressured assist)'s shenanigans. I've included your notes and will re-look over that along with the other notes i've gathered thus far.
 
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