• As part of the relaunch of Skullheart, ALL previous threads have been archived. You can find them at the bottom of the forum in the Archives (2021) section. The archives are locked, so please use the new forum sections to create new discussion threads.

Cerebella General

You can just command grab push-block happy players and force them to do something other than block. Don't forget frame-traps with c.lk to bait push blocks and c.hk or Titan Knuckle to force the opponent to stay still if you do get pushed out.

Also, nobody holds up-forward on defense unless your pressure is really obvious.
 
Zidiane said:
That's not really true. She definitely has options to go for a mixup, and stay in your face even if it fails. On example is the corner j.hp burst bait. If they are mashing, they burst and die. If they don't and try to roll, they burst and die (if you didn't use a OTG already). If they don't burst and don't roll, you get to do whatever you want to them. There's other things she can do to apply a mixup and either go for a second one directly after or keep the pressure on.
Meh, burst baits aren't really a proving point to me. Most of them aren't real mix-ups, more like "stop mashing and stay where i want you" flashing signs. Sure, that way you have a perfect opportunity for a mix up...one opportunity. Burst baits, slide into safe jump set-up and all that stuff are "on hit" techs to get a guaranteed mix up. What I mean is, you get the mix up, fine, you try to grab, he jumps, back to neutral, or you c.lk, and you get pushblocked. You had the opportunity, but you still get only one if you fail to make the right decision.
From my match experience against zeknife, either I stay in or get pushed back too far for pressure or mix up to go on is some kind of weird 50/50. I can try to stop either after c.lk or c.mp, and every time I get "late pushblocked", because he sees that I stopped hitting buttons and still have time to hit 2P before the end of the blockstun ; or I keep going for normals and get pushblocked at the end of the string ; or I delay one of my normals, so that when he pushblcoks thinking I'm ending my string, I stay in his face, but if my c.lk actually hits, I end up with a c.mp on guard like an idiot.
So, at the end of the day, it still feels like pressure just vanish after half a second, you either did it and are currently combo-ing, or you're just back to neutral.

Well, against pushblock, I usually do c.lk, c.mp, c.hk. Most people after they push you away will try and jump after you or jump away, or walk forward. People usually don't think to crouch block. Hit them with the sweep and then Tumble Run after them as they tech roll, stop before they get up, and you should be close enough to land MGR while being plus still. And if they start crouch blocking the c.hk, that means they aren't doing anything but holding downback, so you can start doing run instead of c.hk. If you feel confident you can run into showstopper, but you could play it safe and runstop.
C.hk tumble run doesn't sound like a miracle solution to me either, most people I tried that against just pushblock crouchblock/absolute guard, then, as this leaves me rarely at more than +0, they just counter me with faster normals, or jump IAD and stuff...

(Sorry for the possible lack of constructive posting on my part, not having the opportunity to try out anything by myself in more than 3 days in a row got me pissed...but I still try to write down something not completely stupid)
 
Last edited:
dragonos451 said:
Meh, burst baits aren't really a proving point to me. Most of them aren't real mix-ups, more like "stop mashing and stay where i want you" flashing signs.
With that burst bait I mentioned you can pull j.hp or glide into Grab Bag. So you do the burst/grab mixup. If they beat either option, you get another mixup/pressure moment. There are also burst baits that are "bait/mixup, then mixup if they didn't burst/get hit". If you aren't finding burst baits that are also mixups that lead into more mixups, then you aren't looking for them.

Sure, that way you have a perfect opportunity for a mix up...one opportunity. Burst baits, slide into safe jump set-up and all that stuff are "on hit" techs to get a guaranteed mix up. What I mean is, you get the mix up, fine, you try to grab, he jumps, back to neutral, or you c.lk, and you get pushblocked. You had the opportunity, but you still get only one if you fail to make the right decision.
So, you want to put the opponent in a string of constant mixups? There is no character that has those. There are characters that feel like they have them, but not really. There are of course ways out of every pressure string. There's no "I do this and get five mixups in a row no matter what". When you play the game, you have to read the opponent, then use what you read to form the offense that beats that.

So, at the end of the day, it still feels like pressure just vanish after half a second, you either did it and are currently combo-ing, or you're just back to neutral.
The more you play the more that you'll see around that problem.

C.hk tumble run doesn't sound like a miracle solution to me either
I've been playing for a minute. There are no miracle solutions, but c.hk has never truly let me down. Pushblock animation is 25 frames, so in 25 frames you have time to gain back distance against someone crouch blocking is all I'm saying. Oh, also, I forgot to say to delay the c.hk. If you do it too fast they'll block it with the push block guard thing.
 
Longer is my post, less relevant it seems to be...I should remember to not write a post before eating and after a week without playing online, I feel dumb now. I'll get back to my combos and stop thinking 8 months of playing a character mean you know it well :-/
 
I've got a question regarding Cerebella tech. Recently, I've started taking a little chunk of free damage on incoming chars after kills with Grab Bag. Can this be avoided and how? My guess is that maybe frame 1 invincible Blockbusters can beat it, but that requires meter...
 
Grab bag can be teched for that exact reason
 
If you have enough undizzy to work with, going for air grab on incoming is always better than going for Grab Bag. Also, teching Grab Bag is the same timing as teching a normal air grab.
 
View619 said:
If you have enough undizzy to work with, going for air grab on incoming is always better than going for Grab Bag. Also, teching Grab Bag is the same timing as teching a normal air grab.
I thought the amount of time you can tech grab bag was (insignificant really but) lower (3 frames vs 6 or something)
 
Why does Cerebella have invincibility on MGR? It's a 10-frame command grab that can be combo'd off for no meter and super cancelled on whiff. I see absolutely no need for it to have even a frame of invincibility.

This question is salt induced from me passing right through her and getting punished when I made the right read.
 
The "right read" against MGR is to hit it with an IAD-like attack, or jump and let an assist punish it. Also, nobody is cancelling whiffed MGR into Dynamo, they normally just let it recover. Cancelling into Dynamo in a game where there is no negative to up-back besides getting hit low while under pressure and everybody loves jumping around by default is basically giving the opponent a better opportunity to punish.
 
Random stupid fact: MGR can be diamond dropped.
 
mgr invincibility is the weirdest indeed :
first 3 frames are totally vulnerable
then hit invincibility for the rest of the start up
full invincibility for the active frames + 1 frame or so of grab invincibility after the end of the active frames...
So clearly not a reversal option, but does its job properly when you want to make mash-safe resets.
 
Out of curiosity I checked the rest of the command grabs in training mode and MGR is the only non-super grab to have invul frames. I still kind of question why that move needs it but at least I know now.

I will admit that even though I use Bella sometimes(mostly for assist) I'm bad at fighting her. I should worry about that more than random move properties annoying me.
 
Iphantom said:
Out of curiosity I checked the rest of the command grabs in training mode and MGR is the only non-super grab to have invul frames. I still kind of question why that move needs it but at least I know now.

I will admit that even though I use Bella sometimes(mostly for assist) I'm bad at fighting her. I should worry about that more than random move properties annoying me.

Did you also notice the gap directly next to Bella where MGR will whiff? Seems pretty odd for a ground throw to whiff at close range, huh? And before you say "just space it properly", trust me when I say it will still whiff more often than you would like.

MGR is her second best command grab (Showstopper is first), yet it whiffs at close-range unless your name is Big Band.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Broseidon Rex
MGR is made so that it will whiff up close
 
Iphantom said:
Out of curiosity I checked the rest of the command grabs in training mode and MGR is the only non-super grab to have invul frames. I still kind of question why that move needs it but at least I know now.

I will admit that even though I use Bella sometimes(mostly for assist) I'm bad at fighting her. I should worry about that more than random move properties annoying me.
Check again because Diamond Drop has some invulnerability frames.
 
DDrop's range overlaps with MGR, so if the opponent is reasonably close at all, I just use DDrop without thinking about it. I can't get a big combo unless my back is close to a corner, but at least it's decent damage. In the general Cerebella guide, I believe Zidiane said that Showstopper actually shouldn't be used over her command grabs...

Edit: Oh yeah, here it is:
Zidiane said:
Grab cancel

Any ground normal that isn’t c.mk, c.hp, c.hk, or s+f.hp can be successfully canceled into a DDrop or MGR. I would suggest one of those over doing Showstopper. There is never a good enough reason to do that over a normal command grab. Showstopper leaves you horrendously open and just all around riskier. This isn't to say that DDrop or MGR would always the best choice over US, but Showstopper definently shouldn't be your go-to grab. MGR is the more desirable of the two command Grabs, being that it leads good damage everywhereinstead, but it will miss if you are too close. DDrop is ALWAYS the option you should be doing when your back is to the wall.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Icky
how to combo after j.lp (heard it was to be 3-5times pressed as slowly as possible)? I don't understand.
 
@Zidiane

I have a vid of the throw conversions you found to post up. It's literally just hold throw and charge back, then cancel throw recovery with run. The run short-cuts make it really simple.


Doesn't work on:
Fukua
Val
Peacock
Parasol
Bella
Big Band, although you only need MGR vs him.
Squiggly? I didn't buy her, so I don't know.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Zidiane
bubbaking said:
DDrop's range overlaps with MGR, so if the opponent is reasonably close at all, I just use DDrop without thinking about it. I can't get a big combo unless my back is close to a corner, but at least it's decent damage. In the general Cerebella guide, I believe Zidiane said that Showstopper actually shouldn't be used over her command grabs...
For resets, the section you got that excerpt from, DDrop is the better option when compared to Showstopper. If they jumped instead of getting grabbed, you will get punished 100% of the time with showstopper, but DDrop recovers before they can punish. They can call certain assists to clip you, and certain characters have specific air supers that may punish you (though you can maybe counter super?). And damage wise, DDrop, Dynamo, TKnuckle gives 4180 damage (Cerecopter, on the characters it works on, gets 4400, plus the option to Dynamo again for about 5500 I think), and Showstopper gets you 4800, less if you want to Devil Horns and gamble on another reset, so the damage difference for the same meter is kinda minimal.

However, under pressure, you won't be able to get a DDrop, so in those situations Showstopper would be preferable. Under pressure, you don't want to do any command grab except Showstopper, unless you're sure it's a grab and you can DDrop. MGR has a couple (4?) frames of non-invincible startup. On top of that, it doesn't grab right in front of you (Exception=Big Band), so that's nearly useless as a reversal. This doesn't mean mash Showstopper when you're getting hit (when I see people do that, a bit of my soul dies), but if you're certain they're going for a low/grab, but unsure which/sure it's a low, stop their show with all the butter you can churn.
View619 said:
I have a vid of the throw conversions you found to post up. It's literally just hold throw and charge back, then cancel throw recovery with run. The run short-cuts make it really simple..
Nice. I need to used to holding grab for that shortcut. How consistent can you get it? I was trying for a few minutes the other day, and it seems like you need to delay just a little bit (on Filia, at least) for her to bounce up a bit. Also, is the throw back different from the throw forward? I can't remember.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bubbaking
Well, diamond drop can be a reliable reversal. It has only 3 frames of hit vulnerability before going into full invuln, and most of the time, people don't do real tight frame traps. I grabbed more people that i can count that paused very slightly to bait the super flash, or did a loose frame trap because, well, precise timing on these doesn't seem to be a priority for many. Sneaking a couple of them builds the "bella terror" meter kinda quickly, so going for it is often worth it. That or the pressure type makes 360 equally useless, with plenty of instant jump attacks and stuff...don't mash 360, keep it for the most unexpected moments or lnl cancels.
Pbgc diamond drop is really good too, btw

And there's no difference between back throw and forward throw. As long as you hold the correct direction, comboing out of it will work the exact same way
 
If the opponent thinks you'll grab and goes for something like an IAD attack, or up-back + assist then Diamond Drop can still be punished. If the opponent jumps just to get away (holding up-back), Diamond Drop will recover before they can punish. US however, has increased recovery so it's a guaranteed punish + you're one meter down; the reward is the instant start-up, invincibility and massive damage you get while being able to combo follow-up and regain a decent portion of that super meter, making it the best of her three grounded grabs with an equal cost.

On offense, your best bet is to get into a position where you can land MGR. In order of offensive grab set-ups, it should be:
  1. MGR
  2. Diamond Drop/Normal Grab (see above post)
  3. US
They all have their risk/rewards, but you have to think about the different costs and choose based on that. Also, keep in mind that MGR doesn't whiff up-close against Big Band. Also, Diamond Drop has no hit invincibility iirc (it is really fast at 5 frames, though), while MGR is hit invincible, but has a dead zone up-close and is 5 frames slower than DD.

Zidiane said:
Nice. I need to used to holding grab for that shortcut. How consistent can you get it? I was trying for a few minutes the other day, and it seems like you need to delay just a little bit (on Filia, at least) for her to bounce up a bit. Also, is the throw back different from the throw forward? I can't remember.

No delay required, just cancel into Run ASAP and it will land pretty consistently. Back throw is just charging in the opposite direction, then cancelling into Run. It's really easy.
 
Alright quick question because I played @Dreamepitaph and some other Fukua's (mostly solo vs solo) and I have to ask, what the hell do I do except block better? I can't punish most projectiles since they recover quickly and then proceed to alter the timing if I start reflecting, always too far to punish with grabs, and I just can't keep them locked down. Is it a bad match up or do I just suck?
 
Broseidon Rex said:
Alright quick question because I played @Dreamepitaph and some other Fukua's (mostly solo vs solo) and I have to ask, what the hell do I do except block better? I can't punish most projectiles since they recover quickly and then proceed to alter the timing if I start reflecting, always too far to punish with grabs, and I just can't keep them locked down. Is it a bad match up or do I just suck?
to answer your question it comes down to meta gaming. that matchup is treated just like squigly match up. it all depends on who can out meta who.

bella has all the tools to get in. and fukua can just zone her ass off or reflect catches. if you can find a pattern fukua CAN be grabbed before shadows comes about and it sucks. if you can put fukua in the corner she is indefinitely screwed due to no options.
 
I was talking with Iloli earler about bellas lock 'n load taking input priorities over her dp actions. Is this staying or what? its really annonying.
 
Prototype said:
I was talking with Iloli earler about bellas lock 'n load taking input priorities over her dp actions. Is this staying or what? its really annonying.
How is that even an issue? Do your inputs correctly?

BTW, I thought it was the other way around. If you do titan knuckle and quickly cancel it with a lock'n'load, you'll get a dp instead because of the forward motion from the knuckle. What makes you say the priority is the other way around?
 
Loli says it was but it's on his list to fix and he keeps forgetting maybe. But I tried playing her and just could not get a dp for nothing. I was initially whiff cancelling cr.Fp into cerecopter and I just could not avoid lock and load for anything. I mirrored these inputs on squigly and got the dp's, It works fine with Filia also. The exact same inputs prioritizes lock'nload. Those were the only two characters I could think of with similar inputs to test this on. I dragon punch like its my maiden name so I am pretty confident in the motion but even if I end the input on down forward it is still lock and load.
 
Prototype said:
disturbing stuff
Personal training mode experience :
80% of my DP inputs are forward, down, down-forward, forward+punch according to the input list, and I still get DPs everytime...

I'm confused.
Maybe we live in different dimensions...nope, my game is up to date...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kai
Prototype said:
Loli says it was but it's on his list to fix and he keeps forgetting maybe. But I tried playing her and just could not get a dp for nothing. I was initially whiff cancelling cr.Fp into cerecopter and I just could not avoid lock and load for anything. I mirrored these inputs on squigly and got the dp's, It works fine with Filia also. The exact same inputs prioritizes lock'nload. Those were the only two characters I could think of with similar inputs to test this on. I dragon punch like its my maiden name so I am pretty confident in the motion but even if I end the input on down forward it is still lock and load.
dragonos451 said:
Personal training mode experience :
80% of my DP inputs are forward, down, down-forward, forward+punch according to the input list, and I still get DPs everytime...

I'm confused.
Maybe we live in different dimensions...nope, my game is up to date...
@dragonos451 is correct. Not sure what you're doing wrong, @Prototype. I can do :F::DF::D::DF::F: or :F::D::DF::F: and get a DP every time. Quarter circles in no way have priority over DPs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dragonos451
Nevermind I see whats happening. The set up I was trying and getting the error on the most was cr.fp whiff in to cerecopter. The negative edge from the Fierce is just taking the lock and load on release because the motion hasn't completed.
 
I have the exact opposite problem. I do Titan Knuckle and then I try to cancel it into L lnl but I get "Back at Ya!" without fail. I know I'm supposed to return the 'stick' to neutral, but I play on pad, so the only solution I've really found is to do a half-circle from back to front. It works, but the set-up is a little longer and more convoluted than it has to be PLUS I always forget right when the action is most crucial. >.<

However, this exact problem helped me find an easier way to input SRKs than the standard 'Z-motion', so..... :/
 
Yea i ended up holding the button and just using the negative edge too get what want when the inputs get there.
 
Does the new dynamo change affect anything besides when used as an anti-air against characters with an air super?
 
bubbaking said:
What change was there that would cause Dynamo to act differently against airborne chars? O.o
The small portion of the super where the opponent is in hitstop now has a smaller hitbox, which can allow characters like Val to reversal air super when dynamo is used as a non-deep anti-air.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back