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Dealing with Parasoul's j.HP, because it needs it's own entire thread!

WrestlerGuile

WrestlerGuile

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Painwheel Unknown Unknown
Dear god, is this move bullshit! It's really nice for Parasoul players, but it's not good for anyone else! Today, I had some matches with a dude that uses a good, but, in my opinion, very cheap Parasoul that consistently used j.HP to evade and counter. Whenever I tried to avoid it, I either didn't get to confirm off or I would get hit and confirmed. With all that said, this thread is all about how to avoid Parasoul's j.HP with each and every respective character, even the P-Soul herself.

My problem is I main Painwheel and I consistently used a j.HP of my own, plus j.MP and j.MK. When I wiped the gloss off of his gimmick and tried something different like running across the ground or superjumping, I was too afraid to get hit or I got hit anyways and got confirmed. So what do I do against Parasoul and her j.HP with Painwheel?
 
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j.HP causes blue bounce if not chained into
Very scary

Get hit by it, tech out, get hit by it, tech out, get hit by it, tech out, get hit by it, tech out, land a hit, woo you just dealt 2x as much dmg as Parasoul did
 
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pssttt..use armor with painwheel that will beat it
 
agent13 said:
pssttt..use armor with painwheel that will beat it
"use armor to beat parasoul's air normals"
1385777144980.jpg
 
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agent13 said:
pssttt..use armor with painwheel that will beat it
I forgot to mention that I used armor with Painwheel. In fact, it was j.HP armor and sometimes s.HP, but I still got in trouble with her. Although I have a new plan I think might work: s.MK and c.HK. I forgot Pwheel's s.MK counted as an anti-air and has two hits of armor while Psoul's j.HP has one hit and he has to land on the ground before being able to attack again, and in the air after Psoul's j.HP is used she is pretty much immobile until she hits the ground again. As for Pwheel's c.HK, not many expect her to use a low attack, but even if they expect it, it has three hits of armor, is safe with pushblock or even on it's own with it's long hit box, and can be used to confirm with qcf.K.
 
Domo said:
"use armor to beat parasoul's air normals"
1385777144980.jpg

fly back and that armored attack that lunges her forward if she's going to swat you out of the air ;)

WrestlerGuile said:
I forgot to mention that I used armor with Painwheel, if fact it was j.HP armor and sometimes s.HP, but I still got in trouble with her. Although I have a new plan I think might work: s.MK and c.HK. I forgot Pwheel's s.MK counted as an anti-air and has two hits of armor while Psoul's j.HP has one hit and he has to land on the ground before being able to attack again, and in the air after Psoul's j.HP is used she is pretty much immobile until she hits the ground again. As for Pwheel's c.HK, not many expect her to use a low attack, but even if they expect it, it has three hits of armor, is safe with pushblock or even on it's own with it's long hit box, and can be used to confirm with qcf.K.

yeah the minute you're on the ground parasoul will do jp. hk unless they're stupid...also not for anything most people expect a low when painwheel is the on the ground so...trying doing f+hk,hk,hk,hk?
 
I have a secret to share about Parasoul's j.HP that other Parasoul users should know about! Maybe some of you know about it already...

As you all know, when you hit with it air-to-air, you'll get a blue bounce and the opponent can recover immediately, but if you are using Parasoul's j.MK float before you hit with it, you'll get a purple bounce and can combo afterward. This is because she's technically chaining it off of the j.MK, the same way it works with something like j.LP -> j.HP, except it doesn't matter if the j.MK whiffs.

Enjoy. :D
 
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You do know that if you air block it and don't push block it will force you to the ground and cancel your block allowing you to punish Parasoul as long as you land before her. So if they are just spamming j.hp then you can just do that or what IsaVulpes said just tech the blue bounce. The real problem is when they chain into j.hp because you cant tech out of that knockdown, but her other air normals have much smaller hit boxes. (the j.mk > j.hp thing is really predictable so if you see them floating with j.mk be prepared to block a j.hp)

Basically just think for about five second and don't just mindlessly run into the move that has a giant hit box. One of the best things about this game is the fact that everything has a weakness.
 
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Can I have this thread move to the general Painwheel thread to be more Painwheel centered, @Domo since you're a mod? Thank you.
 
Just chicken block the j.hp. That allows you to land and punish it for free. Honestly, you should be worried about j.lp

Also, please don't move this to PW general, it's pointless. Or you can take it to SG general.
 
Well, the question is how to deal with j.hp as Painwheel, so i think it should be in here.
 
Couldn't this thread have just gone into the general MU thread?

Just sayin'...

Also...
WrestlerGuile said:
As for Pwheel's c.HK, not many expect her to use a low attack, but even if they expect it, it has three hits of armor, is safe with pushblock or even on it's own with it's long hit box, and can be used to confirm with qcf.K.
I always thought everyone expected a low because PW's c.LK is so godly. On top of that, isn't it impossible to confirm off of c.HK unless you fully charge it? Idk, it seems awfully risky, but what do I know...
 
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I'd ask @Dime_x . He has stated some preference for a charged c.hk too.

From what I can tell is it has some of the best (fastest) armored frames, but you're right, I can't make it work for me. It can only be confirmed from a full charge, and even then the timing is fairly strict meaning I think you'll have to throw out the lk.buer to confirm regardless of if the c.hk hits or not (making it super dangerous since a blocked lk.buer is punishable).

I still strongly prefer c.mp for my armored reversal.
 
My prefferred armor normal is st.mp. Its got the best overall attributes. I just make sure to call pillar while I'm doing it and always cancel into flight for the easy confirm.


Cr.hk charge is good for fast armor with lots of armor points. I personally confirm into flight though, not into buer.
 
Dreamepitaph said:
can't you grab?......literally...just grab?


Armored moves?

Yes you can grab them. But they are all cancelable into flight at any time which cannot be ground grabbed. So its risky to go for grabs against armor moves, not that ive never been grabbed out of armor moves before. But not that i havent flight canceled into j.lk and punished wiffed grabs either.
 
- All of PW's Buers have shorter startup than Parasoul j.HP. Ground HK Buer beats it clean if you confirm a jump, even if you're not in the air.
- You can ground-tech j.HP immediately, she is never guaranteed a combo off it.
- If you chicken-block it, you can punish her immediately when you land.
- s.MP armor -> release is a free punish, and she doesn't have anything she can chain into fast enough to hit PW again or recover
- j.HP armor -> Buer is a free punish, and she doesn't have anything she can chain into fast enough to hit PW again or recover
- I'm not even sure why this is a thread, seems like the title should be "I have a problem figuring out how to play" or something. :^)
 
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j.hp raw is not what is rough. It is j.lp > j.hp. A Parasoul that jumps around j.hp'ing is soon to be a thrown and combo'd Parasoul.

j.lp > j.hp renders armor not just useless but dangerous. You will get hit out of it. You will eat a combo.

Armor vs Parasoul is fairly strong and necessary, but it is hardly a panacea.

I don't think it is unfair, but it is a rough MU for damn sure. Easily my worst (by a not insignificant margin).

I am still working on unfly with her, and I need to try more of a ground game vs her too (might actually render j.lp > j.hp more manageable).

That said, get out of the habit of charging j.hp for anything but tears and predictable raw j.hp.
 
if you're playing fukua, when she jumps to try and J.hp, use j. lk, j. mk, j. hk. you're j. lk can beat it out and that's a free combo
 
Yummy Bubbles said:
if you're playing fukua, when she jumps to try and J.hp, use j. lk, j. mk, j. hk. you're j. lk can beat it out and that's a free combo

PW's issue with Fukua is that Fukua's j.HK oftentimes beats air-to-air intercepts like j.LP/j.LK and Airthrow.
 
Spencer said:
j.lp > j.hp renders armor not just useless but dangerous.
Actually, j.LP>j.HP is so slow that PW can pretty reliably armor through the j.LP and then CH me out of my j.HP by letting go of the Fierce.
I mean, I dunno how hard that is to do as I don't play PW, but I've had plenty Carols do it against me so it should be rather possible~

Problems for proper armor usage are j.LP>j.LK (which doesn't lead to combos if you're not calling a proper assist at the right time), j.LP/j.LK + assist (which tends to be rather predictable as you have to call assist first, then do the jump normal), and most notably placed tears (which j.LP / j.MP / j.HP / j.MK detonate, causing them to be '2 hit normals').
 
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I plan on labbing vs Para tonight, I'll post my results.

What should I be testing? j.lp > j.hp , j.lp > j.lk , etc?
 
Mike_Z said:
I'm not even sure why this is a thread, seems like the title should be "I have a problem figuring out how to play" or something. :^)

Was this really necessary?

Whatever. Thanks to this thread I can finally teach my buddy how to beat my Parasoul.
 
erkicman said:
Was this really necessary?
Maybe not, but when the first sentence is "Dear god, is this move bullshit!" with the implied "I am a good enough player, it is the character's problem", and then the first few (useful) responses are "here are pretty easy ways to play that allow you to beat it fairly easily", I as the game developer will take offense because it's not the character's problem.

Also if you armor j.LP and you do a Buer it will beat j.HP clean, that's why I mentioned the bit about Buer having shorter startup than j.HP. :^)
 
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Also, I like confirmed absorb of j.lp and cancel j.hp into Buer Thresher as a punish. I don't think there's enough armour cancelling going on in general (on the air or on the ground).
 
Yeah the execution can be a tad tight on j.hp cancel into other things so I get lazy about it. So much lab work to do...

Related, did anyone see Elda bait Bella rush into Diamond Dynamo during "Who ya'll like" a week or so ago? He charged j.hp, absorbed one hit and threshered. Sexy.
 
Painwheel's s.MK (Charged) usually works against Parasoul's j.HP as well as s.HP (charged). I use s.MK as an anti-air for Painwheel. I also sometimes use Rachet Poppy against Parasoul's j.HP
 
Serious_Eagle said:
Painwheel's s.MK (Charged) usually works against Parasoul's j.HP as well as s.HP (charged). I use s.MK as an anti-air for Painwheel. I also sometimes use Rachet Poppy against Parasoul's j.HP

Lol you're suppose to spam j. hk against painwheel lmfao
 
agent13 said:
Lol you're suppose to spam j. hk against painwheel lmfao
I mean it's just a suggestion, sheesh
 
Charged cr.mp. That's it. 100% the answer. Don't meet her air to air. Just armor through it, it will anti-air her. /threaddone
 
Weatherbee said:
Charged cr.mp. That's it. 100% the answer. Don't meet her air to air. Just armor through it, it will anti-air her. /threaddone

Unless she crosses up... then you're boned.
 
Spencer said:
Unless she crosses up... then you're boned.
Haha true true


Which is why i use st.mp instead. But honestly the easiest way to punish it is to just air block it then punish it in recovery.
 
Well if she's crossing up, then she probably isnt using j.hp at this point so off-topic pshhhhhh. Also cr.mp can catch things behind her a lot of the time, just be ready to hit st.hp because not all the hits will land so you gotta chain early. Also spaaaaaacing don't git got, apply normals responsibly!
 
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That's fair.

In my experience, c.mp is pretty solid on the ground as it has fast armored frames. It works well against really predictable, one-hit jump-ins like Squig's divekicks.

I find it to be rather dubious anywhere else though. Of course, Parasoul gives me fits, so maybe my opinion on this particular subject isn't to be trusted.

For my money, s.mp vs Parasoul or j.hp > Thresher as often as possible.
 
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