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General Gameplay Discussion

yea i played around with it a little more and problem was i was doing it midscreen (which i think is totally impossible if you block pillar first). its pretty easy if you pushblock the pillar in the corner you can even just mash it out once you see the super flash.

same thing with peacock AA sometimes you can get pushblock off the first hit but most times you cant. i guess its the same thing with regular multihit moves too, massively incosistent getting the PB on the first hits. man id love to be able to PBGC doubles fuckin j.HP i hate that move.

Age said:
I don't know if it's actually due to the multiple pushblock inputs or if it's just that there's a really specific timing for pushblock to actually work.

i think its defo the latter since when i tried it i only ever PBed once. i try to avoid mashing stuff when i can help it.
 
Evilweevle said:
yea i played around with it a little more and problem was i was doing it midscreen (which i think is totally impossible if you block pillar first). its pretty easy if you pushblock the pillar in the corner you can even just mash it out once you see the super flash.

same thing with peacock AA sometimes you can get pushblock off the first hit but most times you cant. i guess its the same thing with regular multihit moves too, massively incosistent getting the PB on the first hits. man id love to be able to PBGC doubles fuckin j.HP i hate that move.



i think its defo the latter since when i tried it i only ever PBed once. i try to avoid mashing stuff when i can help it.


Did you try air pushblocking the pillar? That seems like the easy punish in theory... Aka mash that air super or jump attack on the way down.
 
Dime_x said:
Did you try air pushblocking the pillar? That seems like the easy punish in theory... Aka mash that air super or jump attack on the way down.

yea but depending on what height you block it at determines when the bikes are gonna actually hit you. say you block the pillar high up and then pushblock, youll leave blockstun altogether and have no choice but to block the bikes on the way down anyway. the only air attacks you might have chance to get out if your lucky are lights and they are difficult to combo from so high up, thats if you dont get hit by the bikes anyway that is. im sure itd be way easier with air super but i was practicing with bella at the time so thats a no go obviously. perhaps elbow may work since it briefly stops her descent but i dont think itll destroy all the bikes.
 
double jump... elbow... double jump... j.hk...seems like you got options. also, bellas j.hp stops her descent so try that as well.
 
ive had some success with j.hp but you need to block the pillar quite high up, plus to link it to anything afterwards is tough. ill try double jump tomorrow but i reckon that para will recover before you can hit her with anything. j.HK is far too slow to come out in time. thanks for the suggestions though.
 
Grounded against pillar xx bikes goes like this: Midscreen, block the pillar and hold up or up forward during super freeze. Not upback, which gets stuck in proximity block. You will clear the bikes everytime. Anyone with a double jump can easily come down on Para with whatever counterhit heavy. Everyone can do something painful. With para in the corner and you in her face you pushblock the pillar blockstun after superfreeze, absorb the bike blockstun in the pushblock animation, then punish with something quick (jabs, throws, supers).

Airblocking is what Para sort of wants, although there's usually something tricky you can do (SG does not take away air actions for blocking, so you can block the pillar, pushblock, then double jump or airdash to drop something on Para's head).
 
obregon said:
Grounded against pillar xx bikes goes like this: Midscreen, block the pillar and hold up or up forward during super freeze. Not upback, which gets stuck in proximity block. You will clear the bikes everytime. Anyone with a double jump can easily come down on Para with whatever counterhit heavy. Everyone can do something painful. With para in the corner and you in her face you pushblock the pillar blockstun after superfreeze, absorb the bike blockstun in the pushblock animation, then punish with something quick (jabs, throws, supers).

Airblocking is what Para sort of wants, although there's usually something tricky you can do (SG does not take away air actions for blocking, so you can block the pillar, pushblock, then double jump or airdash to drop something on Para's head).

just tried this and it only works if para has you in the corner since anywhere else on screen and the bikes hit too soon, you just get hit out of your jump. even blocking the pillar at max range doesnt help.
 
Evilweevle said:
just tried this and it only works if para has you in the corner since anywhere else on screen and the bikes hit too soon, you just get hit out of your jump. even blocking the pillar at max range doesnt help.

Huh. I tested it in the beta before posting that, but you're right - it's much less lenient with positioning on live version (more of the stage has to be behind Para's back). I don't remember any patch notes that would explain the difference so it might be something caused by the block-OK super hitstop change.
 
hmm thats weird. oh well whatevs. thanks for trying it for me though.
 
Is there going to be an update coming soon? Like would I be able to set undizzy burst in training mode?
 
IsaVulpes said:
Huh? There is no separate option for Undizzy burst, it's the usual "Escape Infinite Combos" setting.

That doesn't trigger undizzy for me. Like they don't turn green or anything I can only trigger ips.
 
almostlegendary said:
That doesn't trigger undizzy for me. Like they don't turn green or anything I can only trigger ips.
I'm not really clear on what you're asking for. Do you want it to only burst on green sparks, but ignore pink sparks? That's my best guess as to what you're saying but I don't know why that would be a useful training mode feature.
 
mcpeanuts said:
I'm not really clear on what you're asking for. Do you want it to only burst on green sparks, but ignore pink sparks? That's my best guess as to what you're saying but I don't know why that would be a useful training mode feature.

I want to be able to see when I'm a bout to activate undizzy.

En core ps3 US.
 
You have
- A green bar below the opponent's lifebar, if it's full and you start a new chain: Undizzy triggers
- Show Attack Data: Advanced; If the Value is 240 or higher and you start a new chain: Undizzy triggers
And if it does, then they WILL spark green.
 
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IsaVulpes said:
You have
- A green bar below the opponent's lifebar, if it's full and you start a new chain: Undizzy triggers
- Show Attack Data: Advanced; If the Value is higher than 240 and you start a new chain: Undizzy triggers
And if it does, then they WILL spark green.

Ok thanks.
 
I'm gonna throw out some thoughts;

Code: 
http://youtu.be/QFvJch7u_KU?t=18m24s
Juicebox basically sums up pressure in sf4 in about 2 minutes.

Sg's pressure game is a bit more complex, but I think it can be thought of as revolving around pushblocks rather than around crouch-tech.

Pushblock does a lot of things;
-avoid most tick throws
-create distance against single hits like jump-ins that would otherwise lead to a mixup
-absolute guard nullifies mixups until the pushblock ends
-make longer pressure strings unsafe with pbgc

and it has weaknesses;
-the pushblock input while out of blockstun is either a back dash or a normal
-pushblocking an assist will not create distance from the point character
-mistiming a pushblock against multihit moves can fail to create distance

So pressure becomes:

Did you block the first hit?
Are you ready for a tick-throw/followup mixup? Or are you going to pushblock to avoid it?
If I know you're going to pushblock
-I could use a multihit move which you need to pushblock late to create space
-I could use a move with small blockstun that needs to be pushblocked immediately to avoid a mixup
-If I know you're pushblocking immediately I could whiff the move and make you backdash
-I could use an assist to lock you down:
-If your pushblock ends before my lockdown assist finishes, are you going to pbgc, go into another pushblock, or eat a mixup?
 
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Here is a list of supers I think shouldn't have invincibility.

Double
-Catheads

Filia
-Gregor

Fortune
-Feral Edge

Painwheel
-Install
-Thresher

Parasoul
-bikes

Peacock
-Big bomb
-Argus

Valentine
-Scalpels
 
I'm not a fan of invincibility + hitstop into full combo. I understand reversal to get out of pressure sometimes, but reversal into full combo into reset seems excessive imo. Supers like install and bikes is more of a pet peeve though. Doesn't make sense to me why they have invincibility
 
You realize Gregor has pitiful invincibility that loses to more than it beats, right?

Also, is there a reason why Cerebella isn't listed?
 
Broken Loose said:
You realize Gregor has pitiful invincibility that loses to more than it beats, right?

Also, is there a reason why Cerebella isn't listed?
I think Cerebella's supers are fine. You can't really convert unless you're close to the corner
 
probs referring to dynamo.

i actually wondered what the game would be like if say we kept the 8 frames hitstop but then supers lost their invincibility.
 
IsaVulpes said:
You need the corner to convert off 360?
Yeah, meant Dynamo, my bad. I don't have a problem with a command grab super having invulnerability,but I'm not necessarily an advocate for it.
 
The only one that needs less invincibility is dynamo
You can counter-super it on reaction and still lose
 
zeknife said:
The only one that needs less invincibility is dynamo
You can counter-super it on reaction and still lose
Ya. It's quite silly when you armour through the first hit of dynamo, only to have the opponent's Bella still be invulnerable to your 360. No invuln after the first active frame, pls.

And you can convert off of Dynamo midscreen with H Bypass assist, Tood.
 
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As I said, I'm fine with reversals to escape auto pilot pressure. I just think the reward is too high in this game. As for converting off of dynamo with bypass, that is possible, but you won't typically see cerebella on point with val in the back
 
Camail said:
Most change request can be reduced to the desire to validate auto-pilot. That's just the sg community as a whole.

If that was the case, we would still be playing vanilla right?

Regarding the topic itself, why not do an experiment in the beta in which invincible supers dont have hitstop and supers with hitstop doesnt have invincibility? It wont hurt any one since thats what the beta is for right?
 
If every super had its invincibility removed, then Solos would be COMPLETELY boned.

Also, a bunch of what you listed doesn't have proper invincibility.

Cat heads has a billion years of recovery so if they do it yolo you can literally just punish it.

Bike has invincibility until the first active bike so then it trades.

Big Bomb has invulnerability on startup but it has no hits and Peacock is punishable after it's out. So you don't really have to give a shit about it. Argus doesn't have invul on the first frame/couple frames so you can't escape meaties with it.

Scalpels doesn't have invulnerability on the first couple frames, so you can't escape meaties with it.
 
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ThatOneOtherDude said:
Here is a list of supers I think shouldn't have invincibility.

Double
-Catheads

Filia
-Gregor

Fortune
-Feral Edge

Painwheel
-Install
-Thresher

Parasoul
-bikes

Peacock
-Big bomb
-Argus

Valentine
-Scalpels
ie. Lets nerf Painwheel and make her just useless!

Peacock's supers basically only have flash invincibility anyway.

I don't really understand the point, most of these don't have invincibility as a big part of their utility anyway... except Thresher... seriously why would you take Painwheel's only decent reversal away?
 
Tomo009 said:
ie. Lets nerf Painwheel and make her just useless!

Peacock's supers basically only have flash invincibility anyway.

I don't really understand the point, most of these don't have invincibility as a big part of their utility anyway... except Thresher... seriously why would you take Painwheel's only decent reversal away?
It always had one frame of startup after flash, so I think thresher would be fine. Taking away the invincibility on peacocks supers wouldn't make her useless. I have no idea how you came to that conclusion. I just don't see the reason why they have invincibility.
 
The only think i'll agree with not having invincibility is install because it boosts up her character and makes her more damaging. No character should have invincibility on stuff that leads to them having an advantage ie: sf3 yun
 
ThatOneOtherDude said:
It always had one frame of startup after flash, so I think thresher would be fine. Taking away the invincibility on peacocks supers wouldn't make her useless. I have no idea how you came to that conclusion. I just don't see the reason why they have invincibility.

Booboo, they nerfed argus already just wait for the patch
 
Can't you just play around your weaknesses and turn them into strengths? These supers may have invincibility but they have a lot of frames to get through before the animations over, so take advantage of that!
EXCEPT: Parasoul's bike super; Painwheel's hatred install, and some more. Although I could be wrong in that they take long to get through their animations.
 
I guess part of the reasons the supers are the way they are because pressure/resets are really powerfull tools, and it seems Mike Z felt like if the characters didnt have them, they would be overwhelmed by them, or so i personally see it.

But it brings in this "Mashing" mentally most of us are displeased with, so a solution to that should be considered. How do we nerf "mashing" without it causing pressure to me more overwhelming?
 
Erreip199 said:
But it brings in this "Mashing" mentally most of us are displeased with, so a solution to that should be considered. How do we nerf "mashing" without it causing pressure to me more overwhelming?
Burst bait?
 
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