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Getting the most out of the purple vial

Banana Bandana

Banana Bandana

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notstardragon
Unknown Squigly Fukua
Is there a right or wrong way to use Valentine's purple vials?
I've picked up Valentine as my team leader in my 3 party team and I'm working on a team build that's centered around the idea of getting her vials into the combos. I wanted to ask if any of the combos I've made where really worthwhile and worth trying more of.


n_n)Any input would be greatly appreciated!
 
There's not really anyway to apply a Vial the /wrong/ way in a combo.
I think it's better to save the vial for when you need its extra damage to finish off a character though.

Also it looks like from your combos you might not understand damage scaling!
Each hit in a combo after 3 hits will do 87.5%(?) of its original damage, and it stacks.
Once you hit 13(?) hits, then it won't get any lower.

If you do 5, 100DMG attacks, it would do 100, 100, 100, 87, 75.

Anyways this means you want to get your heaviest hardest hitting attacks at the start of your combo. (That Valentine corner combo that started with c.MP destroyed your damage scaling right away).
(Same thing when you use jMP in Fukua combos)
Also since Vial does low damage with its initial hit, it's better to tack in on at the end of a combo when everything is at its lowest possible damage (Above 13 hits) rather than the first chain, since it wastes one of those strong 13 hits.
 
^ Val in particular requires a lot of attention on controlling/minimizing the number of hits on her multihitnormals in combos. You don't want to butcher scaling, and some links require a specific number of hits out of a multihit move (usually jMP or jMK, but also ground lights) to enable other parts of the combo. For example, jHP adc jMP(3) jHP, land, jHK adc jMK jHP explicitly requires 3 hits on the first jMP in order for them to be at the right height for the jHK to hit.

As for poison optimization, the damage is unscaled so it's pretty much great anywhere, but generally aim to use it later in your combos if at all possible. For a Val/Fil/Dou trio, the poison on Vial > EKG is often used to get them into kill range for Fenrir, which saves you a meter if you don't need the third DHC.

Another thing to consider it for in optimization is that it has way way way more hitstun than dead cross, so it enables some unique links.

Try these out in the corner:
sHP vial sLPx2
sHP vial cLKx2
 
I can see that, using right before you end the combo with a super or something of that category to finish off a character.

Yes, Scaling in that detail is a new one for me but, I heard that multi hitting attacks are really bad in the begin of the combo and could end up nerfing your whole combo. I've been trying to lay off of them until later into the combo but, I still haven't been able to come up of a combo setup that doesn't use the multi hitters that could ether keep the combo going or gives me time to throw in the vial near the end.

I can also see that, Like skarmand said:
"Each hit in a combo after 3 hits will do 87.5%(?) of its original damage, and it stacks."
And Val being a multi hitting character damage control should be the first thing on your mind when using her. To tell the truth, I'm just starting to think about Val like this. I use to just use her as a grinder (Grinder being a character to chip away at the opponent's life bar with not the power but, the sheer number of hits)

Good combo ideas Hilary, if you don't mind me asking though: what Val moves should I start off with that aren't multi hitting? and what move should start off the c.HP corner shenanigans?
 
You want to try and use JHP and JHK as much as you can in the start, then multi hitting normals are great after the combo is fully scaled.

Your ground to air first string is usually cLK cMK[1 HIT] cHP.
This gives you lots of time to confirm into a block string or go for the launcher, while doing only 3 hits for best damage.

An example of an air string would be like
2LK 2MK 2HP
JLK[1 Hit] JHP JHK
IAD JMP[2 Hit] JHK, Land...
Jump JLP...

That's gets a few heavies out early in the combo and avoids letting multi hitting normals ruin the combo by cancelling them early.
 
General rule of thumb is to skip mediums in your confirms/chains unless they're necessary to chain heavies. If you can jump-in confirm, either sLP cHP, sLK cHP, or cLP cHP. If you have a free CH, grab them with normal throw, or otherwise have the advantage/hitstun available, raw cHP.

If you're using deadcross/vial assist, don't use it until the last chain so the undizzy it adds doesn't matter and it doesn't tamper with scaling.

like..
 
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Oh yeah, and vial hitstun is also neat for doublejump combos.

 
Skarmand - That won't be all that hard to work into my playstyle. I use J.HK as a good start sense I comes out in faster than most non Light J's. Maybe I can follow it up with a air dash j.Hk but, I'm not sure where to go from there. (I first thought j.MP as a air to ground but, the scaling and all.)
I could probably shorten down the cLK cMK[1 HIT] cHP into just c.LK c.HP like Hilary said and not for the reason you might think. I might hit the c.Mk twice and you know. there goes the scaling to that point.

Hilary - What do you mean by "CH?" (Sorry, first time hearing that term.)
Got it! So throw the vial at the end of the combo where supers come into the picture!
Huh, I didn't even know you could get extra air with the double jump after the vial. (I feel a bit stupid now for using the air dash for that.)

Caiolugon - Thanks for the link man! Always wanted to learn how to do this combo. (Seen it a lot of times in the lobby but, could never figure out how they did it.)

 
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Counterhit.

Also, if you're running Dragon Bite assist on Squigly or H-Drill on Fukua, you can probably do this for consistency:

cHP
jLK jHP jHK adc jMP jHK
land jLP jMP jHK Cross/Vial + Assist
land dash sLPx2 sMPx2 cMK sHP bypass x EKG
 
Also please tag the people you are talking to by putting an @ in front of their name if you don't want to quote their replies.
That way they are still notified!

Like this
@Skarmand
@Notkastar
 
Double post, report me:

It's okay to use JMP from a JHK air to air confirm if it will get you the combo.
It's better to have scaled combo than no combo at all.
Also in the beta I think you could probably use Savage Bypass to convert off JHK, too.

I don't play Valentine personally but @Hilary will know the good conversions.

(I feel like this thread is almost turning into a training diary rather than being about pink vial whoops)
 
Skarmand said:
Once you hit 13(?) hits, then it won't get any lower.
16 hits.

Skarmand said:
I think it's better to save the vial for when you need its extra damage to finish off a character though.
Keep in mind, Lv1 and Lv2 will not do any more poison damage if the enemy is below 10% HP, so you are costing yourself damage if you use them very late in a lifebar.

And it wasn't explicitly mentioned, so I'll explicitly mention it: using poison before either EKG or the full-length Lv3 allows poison damage to tick down during the super animation.
 
Mike_Z said:
16 hits.


Keep in mind, Lv1 and Lv2 will not do any more poison damage if the enemy is below 10% HP, so you are costing yourself damage if you use them very late in a lifebar.

And it wasn't explicitly mentioned, so I'll explicitly mention it: using poison before either EKG or the full-length Lv3 allows poison damage to tick down during the super animation.
16 it is!

Oh I didn't know that about the 10% thing. Good call. (Also I think you meant LvL3 and LvL2 not LvL1)

And yeah, a final chain like LP LP LP 2LK 2LK 5MP 5MP 5MK 5HK 5HK L Vial xx EKG seems to be the most common since you'll get all those ticks during the super.
(Long ender strings like that give them a lot of meter though) He did make use of vial + EKG during the video in the OP, so I think he knows. :P
 
Skarmand said:
Oh I didn't know that about the 10% thing. Good call. (Also I think you meant LvL3 and LvL2 not LvL1)
No, I meant what I said (and I said what I meant, an elephant's faithful one-hundred percent!)
Lv1 and Lv2 will only bring your opponent's health down to 10%, they will not do any poison damage if health is below that.
Lv3 will bring their health down to 1%.
 
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Mike_Z said:
No, I meant what I said (and I said what I meant, an elephant's faithful one-hundred percent!)
Lv1 and Lv2 will only bring your opponent's health down to 10%, they will not do any poison damage if health is below that.
Lv3 will bring their health down to 1%.
OH!
I somehow interpreted it as LvL2 and 3 won't do any MORE poison damage (than level 1) once the opponent is at 10%.

Sorry, and thanks.

(What is that elephant thing from please don't smite me)
 
Skarmand said:
(What is that elephant thing from please don't smite me)
(Had to look that one up actually)
Don't sweat it guy It's from Dr.horton hears a who n_n
and @Mike_Z while you're here, what's your opinion on the subject?

Should I thrown the vial in as easily as I have or should I have held on to use later on in the combo?
(I know there are more factors to go in than those two things but, for the sake of the question I just break it down to these two categories)
 
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My answer?
The poison doesn't scale, and you can drop a combo at any point, so getting it in earlier before you drop it would be my choice. :^P
 
I agree, Not for the same reasons but, I agree.
Still, I think it's worth looking into about throwing the vial later on in the combo.
Not really the end where you hit the 10% mark but, mid combo where the scaling is already done and you're just trying to get the most hits in before the end. You even said it your self that:

Mike_Z said:
The poison doesn't scale

So I really can't see the harm in throwing in the vail when you're getting the multi hitters out of the way.
Right before you do the supers also sounds like a good idea because, if you're about to hit 10% mark but, you're not quite there and doing a super won't quite cut it. It could do the extra damage you need to get rid of the fluff so that the super can finish it. (Did not realize I got this idea from talking to @Skarmand, Sorry about that man n_n)
 
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