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IMPORTANT: The Non-Gameplay Character Apocalypse Has Come!

Cellsai

Cellsai

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You may notice some changes in here, notably that non-playable and playable characters now share the same forum and every single thread in the forum has been locked.

This is all part of the shuffling of the SkullHeart, so bear with me while the dust settles. I'm still writing up the rules for this forum, but they will be VERY different from what has gone before and it will be HEAVILY moderated to keep to the new rules. Some (most) of you will hate me for this, but it's either this way or the forum gets axed.

I'll have a list of rules for the forum up in a few minutes. Until then, hold tight.
 
Okay, the rules for the forum are now active: http://skullgirls.com/forums/index.php?threads/non-gameplay-character-forum-discussion-rules.6395/

Failure to read the rules does not make you exempt from them. If you break any of these very strict rules for this section, you will get a warning.

The general gist is that this forum is for the discussion of all aspects of a character EXCEPT gameplay. There will be zero discussion of gameplay for any character, regardless if they are playable or not. As this forum is the only place dedicated to talking about non-playable characters, this means speculation on possible future movesets for characters not in the game is no longer permitted anywhere on SkullHeart.

Also, off-topic discussion within the threads is no longer permitted. While Wulf Den has plenty of great content in it, there is a large amount of general chatting between fans of Beowulf. This is also no longer allowed. Keep your discussion of the character on topic.

All previous threads have been locked and will be moved to the archives portion of the forum soon. If you want to discuss a character you must make a new thread.
 
Cellsai said:
this means speculation on possible future movesets for characters not in the game is no longer permitted anywhere on SkullHeart.

All due respect and everything
that just seems

really fucking stupid.

Like, I can't really understand the logic behind this. At all, why can't, shouldn't, or wouldn't we be allowed to discuss gameplay ideas even for characters that have little chance of ever making it into the game?

I just,
where is that stance coming from?
 
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This issue is one of the big ones we know are not going to go down well and it was discussed at length before we settled on this.

Basically it boils down to a site-wide initiative to cull speculation and focus discussion on the actual released game.

You may have heard Mike's complaints about speculation in the past because it does little but cause disappointment and complaints when/if a character doesn't turn out like speculators hope. This an opinion shared by the moderation team here. It also causes problems for things like the Juju scenario, where the 'designer' of a character made it legally impossible for anything he suggested to be in the game.

While the previous threads actually had some pretty interesting discussions about mechanics and gameplay, including plenty that I joined in myself, it was ultimately decided that it would be far more beneficial to leave the design speculation to Lab Zero.

This rule is actually pretty common on other forums too, including places like Dust Loop, which is the primary Arc Sys fighter discussion forum.
 
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You do realize that that was really the only thing keeping the half-stagnant Unreleased Character threads alive in the first place, though, right?

Focusing on a character's, well, character, and position from a lore standpoint is difficult to begin with, especially since the overwhelming majority of the characters get, how much, all of three, four lines ingame? It'll inevitably lead to people simply discussing their interpretations of the character and interjecting with their headcanons.
Guess what? We have a headcanon thread (Two, actually).

Focusing on a character's visual design and aesthetics could be pleasant, especially if we dug into the really interesting bits involving color theory and how the way the character is drawn and colored helps demonstrate who they are, but I know by now that that's not how it really goes. It'll inevitably lead to people posting fanart of that specific character.
Guess what? We have a fanart appreciation thread.

The gameplay speculation was the reason for the season; all the other discussion there was secondary. I dunno, I just don't see the point of taking that away but leaving the threads, since all that other business has its place. I fear that this section of the forums will now quickly go stagnant—which is a shame, really; it was one of my favorite sections.
 
TheMightyBox said:
All due respect and everything
that just seems

really fucking stupid.

Like, I can't really understand the logic behind this. At all, why can't, shouldn't, or wouldn't we be allowed to discuss gameplay ideas even for characters that have little chance of ever making it into the game?

I just,
where is that stance coming from?

Hi there, I was the person who proposed this rule.

In the grand scheme of things, DLC character gameplay speculation doesn't encourage positive or meaningful conversation; there's ultimately very little benefit to allowing people to engage in conversations that amount to "What if Y was put in the game and they had Z?", or "Based on what Mike wrote a year and a half ago I think that X character will have Y and Z". What does happen is a disconnect between what the community expects and what they get, which leads to complaints directed at Lab Zero for something they had no fault in. In many cases it's encouraged Lab Zero to show less and less behind-the-scenes information because the community will so gladly extrapolate it into something ridiculous. Because of this, DLC character gameplay speculation is prohibited.

We can't discriminate between characters that are and aren't planned to be playable because in the event that Panzerfaust is suddenly slated to be a playable DLC character, that 20 pages of Panzerfaust gameplay speculation that was allowed to happen becomes an issue.

I hope this is an adequate explanation, feel free to ask any questions if you have them.
 
I vaguely understand your stance. The forum is so offtopic that it seems comical at times..and even when attempts are made to moderate things...top players and fans do what they please. That part I sort of get. Unfortunately I have grown accustomed to the familial aspect of this forum sadly. An all business approach makes this place like any other place..Skullgirl-centric srk with an art and lore forum. I suppose it should be that way..but I always felt the off topicness lead to a certain camraderie thus giving skullheart its own unique identity.

I realize the mods have discussed this at length...but taking toys away from kids is rarely the answer. And color me a person who thinks the whole thing would be pretty boring without wandering what could have been. Speculation threads are a common site on such sites as neogaf..smashboards..and others besides such as srk. Forums that are bigger and more active than dust loop so i dont see how this is a common thing exactly. seems more like a knee jerk response to try to not annoy the devs as well as well as culling misinformation. Which is well intentioned...but anyone with half a brain knows not to believe everything you read on the internet.

And also I think this puts far too many threads in a murky sort of rule limbo to boot.

As for offending the devs and people speculating how they want people to play, lab zero are people and some of them resent speculation....we are all people here...but people can occasionally have good ideas..people can ignore threads..people can have opinions about how they think someone should play..even if its complete bollocks. Most of all...we are adults who dont need to take a ball and go home when somebody gets mad.
 
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Humdinger said:
I vaguely understand your stance. The forum is so offtopic that it seems comical at times..and even when attempts are made to moderate things...top players and fans do what they please. That part I sort of get. Unfortunately I have grown accustomed to the familial aspect of this forum sadly. An all business approach makes this place like any other place..Skullgirl-centric srk with an art and lore forum. I suppose it should be that way..but I always felt the off topicness lead to a certain camraderie thus giving skullheart its own unique identity.

"Top players and fans" will be expected to adhere to SH's rules like anyone else, and said rules will be far clearer once the overhaul is complete. As for threads that seem to be in "rule limbo", keep in mind that we're not done sifting through every change that's planned for SH. Many threads have yet to be moved/merged/locked which make the forum seem a little two-faced at the moment.
 
this all seems rather premature without said rules.
 
Humdinger said:
I vaguely understand your stance. The forum is so offtopic that it seems comical at times..and even when attempts are made to moderate things...top players and fans do what they please. That part I sort of get. Unfortunately I have grown accustomed to the familial aspect of this forum sadly. An all business approach makes this place like any other place..Skullgirl-centric srk with an art and lore forum. I suppose it should be that way..but I always felt the off topicness lead to a certain camraderie thus giving skullheart its own unique identity.

I realize the mods have discussed this at length...but taking toys away from kids is rarely the answer. And color me a person who thinks the whole thing would be pretty boring without wandering what could have been. Speculation threads are a common site on such sites as neogaf..smashboards..and others besides such as srk. Forums that are bigger and more active than dust loop so i dont see how this is a common thing exactly. seems more like a knee jerk response to try to not annoy the devs as well as well as culling misinformation. Which is well intentioned...but anyone with half a brain knows not to believe everything you read on the internet.

And also I think this puts far too many threads in a murky sort of rule limbo to boot.

As for offending the devs and people speculating how they want people to play, lab zero are people and some of them resent speculation....we are all people here...but people can occasionally have good ideas..people can ignore threads..people can have opinions about how they think someone should play..even if its complete bollocks. Most of all...we are adults who dont need to take a ball and go home.
I strongly agree with this point. As stated by Humdinger, you have every right to feel as if though Speculation/Gameplay Threads about non-added or never added characters would cause issue for "IF" they were to be added to the game, only to lead to disappointment when they did not meet the demands or speculation that the Thread was based upon. The real issue here is, all of it is exactly that: Speculation. I don't see any issue when you get a character like Annie and "assume" what her general gameplay would be, if nothing else, it made most of those Threads more fun and interactive, and if Annie were to so happen be added to the game X amount of decades later and one person's speculation was close/spot on, then okay that is a nice coincidence. It is kind of a bummer we can't be imaginative with the characters we would like to see or rather non-playable characters people like in general.
 
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I mean it can be annoying but to me it signifies someone being invested in a product..and wandering how it will work.
 
is fanart ok? like if we did the unreleased characters threads again could we put fan art there?
 
Cellsai said:
While Wulf Den has plenty of great content in it, there is a large amount of general chatting between fans of Beowulf. This is also no longer allowed. Keep your discussion of the character on topic.
I can already guarantee you that nobody is going to follow this rule, fuck that noise.
Cellsai, I like you and I respect you a lot, but a lot of these changes are garbage.
 
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Humdinger said:
not if it is something that could maybe happen. only things in the game now.

see how silly this is?
so I can keep drawing who I usually draw cause they're in the game? just as long as it's not speculation
 
was more of a pointed joke than a serious reply. fanart..im guessing is fine.
 
So in retrospect of the whole "general chatting of Beowulf in the Character Discussion" is no longer allowed, would that mean that appreciation threads is where the "general chat" would lie? I assume only in Threads like the Wulf Den are supposed to be about Character specifics, like gameplay for example or how he affects Skullgirls.
 
i mean off topic communities could be a thing..

probably something they've already thought about.

just speculating.
 
Denizen said:
I can already guarantee you that nobody is going to follow this rule, fuck that noise.

They will, if they care about the continued existence of the non-gameplay character discussion subforum. Cellsai was one of the few people who campaigned for it to remain, so you honestly shouldn't be directing your anger at them.

jam1220 said:
is fanart ok? like if we did the unreleased characters threads again could we put fan art there?

Fanart should be permissible, so long as a character discussion thread doesn't turn into a fanart dumping ground. For extensive posting of fanart, you might want to try the Art Subforum instead.
 
and apologies for the snark. this just irks me to some extent.
 
Flotilla said:
They will, if they care about the continued existence of the non-gameplay character discussion subforum. Cellsai was one of the few people who campaigned for it to remain, so you honestly shouldn't be directing your anger at them.
They won't, at least not in the case of The Wulf Den. I started that thread a year ago with the purpose of providing a place where people could socialize at their leisure about Beowulf and anything else they're interested in.

That's all it is, it's just a hang out for a bunch of dorky friends, and that's how it will stay.
I have no control over that, as soon as you unlock that thread regular conversation will continue.
 
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Sounds fine by me. In fact, i think it would be kinda fun if we just nuked the place :P
 
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Denizen said:
I can already guarantee you that nobody is going to follow this rule, fuck that noise.
Go on. Try it :)

Real talk though, as Flotilla said, I'm one of the few people who wanted this forum and fought pretty hard for it. You either get it as is with no gameplay speculation or you don't get it at all. There's plenty you can still talk about, including that character's storyline, art of that character, general theories, that character's favorite ice-cream, etc. The ONLY thing off limits is gameplay. If a character thread dies because no one talks about them.. well I guess that thread dies.
 
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I personally agree with the change. There are a lot of grievances and pains that can be derived from ongoing community speculation regarding these sorts of things, plus there are plenty of other things to talk about. Anyways, it's not like we won't be able to dick around and yell at each other like we usually do. We just won't be able to do so while speculating gameplay :P
 
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On a train typing with phone, so slow short responses for everyone.

We killed the Off Topic forum precisely to excise non Skullgirls talk from the forum. Allowing clubs like Wulf Den to exist is exactly the opposite of that. If the first post is not clear, Wulf Den will NOT be unlocked. You are free to start a new thread if you want, but it will be as heavily moderated as every other thread regardless of how natural you think it is.
 
Skullmageddon said:
I personally agree with the change. There are a lot of grievances and pains that can be derived from ongoing community speculation regarding these sorts of things, plus there are plenty of other things to talk about. Anyways, it's not like we won't be able to dick around and yell at each other like we usually do. We just won't be able to do so while speculating gameplay :P
Seems like a fair trade off considering how most of those threads tend to turn out anyway. I was one of the few survivors who bear witness to the unfortunate event that became of the last Squigly Appreciation Thread. Im sure the same scenario could fall victim to any other Characters Thread. I feel this rule would help justify that. Is this change for the better? Hard to say right now, but we may as well wait and see after the gunfire stops.
 
I am gonna miss the off-topic stuff though. It was a fun place to occasionally go through, especially when I was looking for somewhere to just look through discussions or talk but didn't really feel like talking about the game. It's also a nice way to just socialize with other people on the forum, which will be more difficult now that we're being pigeonholed into more focused discussions. Sometimes it's just fun to share funny pictures with others of similar interests, ya know?
 
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Skullmageddon said:
I am gonna miss the off-topic stuff though. It was a fun place to occasionally go through, especially when I was looking for somewhere to just look through discussions or talk but didn't really feel like talking about the game. It's also a nice way to just socialize with other people on the forum, which will be more difficult now that we're being pigeonholed into more focused discussions. Sometimes it's just fun to share funny pictures with others of similar interests, ya know?
That was another point I wanted to bring up. A lot of the new changes are going to take some of the fun the community had by socializing with each other through this site. With the heavier restrictions, it makes it more ackward to have normal covos outside of specific threads. This new seems more like a double edged sword if anything.
 
Like,
gah,
I can get with stricter forum rules, like I've been on very unlenient forums, I get it.
But gameplay speculation is one of my favorite things to do, I just really don't like the idea that ALL of it is just banned.
 
i mean at the end of the day this is a skullgirls forum.

which i think is the crux of the whole matter.

and this is clearly not up for debate.

take it..or literally leave it.

sucks tho.
 
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Wait, the whole off-topic forum is going away?
 
I mean, as far as the character subforums go, imma miss the threads for not-in-roster characters, but beyond that

 
Would you guys consider keeping the off topic section, but simply make it so that none of the threads in that section can appear in the side banner?
 
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Nuuuuu ;_;
It's like you guys want me to pick up SG again in order to have meaningful conversations abou the game.
 
Is this going to be definitive or an experiment? No offense, I know that in the end you just want to promote the game better and make this site more useful, but don't you think the forum may die a littl bit?
 
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