Not a fan of harder difficulties

[SanoBaron]

I have never played my games on a difficulty higher than normal. I honestly never understood why people say it makes the game better. I just want to play something meant to be fun. not overcome a challenge. Why does the game have to make me mad at how hard it is when I don't have to play it that way?

WOW! I worded this poorly... not putting down playing on hard in general guys. just sayin'.

I don't know. Am I looking to hard into this?

 

[DDB]

Topic title should be I am a Nancy Boy

 

[KhaosMuffins]

I guess you're just not hardy enough.

 

[SanoBaron]

Topic title should be I am a Nancy Boy

Is it so bad that I don't care about what people think of the size of my penis?

I guess you're just not hardy enough.

Okay, I approve of this. Puns are always welcome.

 

[Midiman]

Satisfaction Abounds

 

[Beuzer0]

I just want to play something meant to be fun. not overcome a challenge.

I think the exact contrary: overcoming a challenge means huge fun!
Best example: fighting games! When you beat someone you think was stronger than you, isn't it super fun?

 

[Denizen]

I always play games first on normal because I like to enjoy the story and get the feel of the game without getting my ass kicked. Then if I want to replay the game I do it on the highest difficulty possible, 'cause I'm beast like that.
For example, a couple weeks ago I was playing The Last Of Us on Survivor Mode, which is SUPER HARD.
I was actually doing really well but I stopped when school started.

Also DDB didn't say anything about that Sano...

 

[EvaXephon]

I partially agree. In a way, it's fun to receive constant positive feedback from a game. It's fun to feel like a god who is easily blowing past all obstacles. It's fun to have nothing frustrating or difficult happening.

That's one type of fun, but there are many different types of fun. It's fun to master new skills. It's fun to face new challenges and overcome them with effort. It's fun to prove to yourself - or prove to the world - that you had the fortitude to take on the most difficult challenges available to you, and keep trying until you succeeded.

If I face a boss and I beat that boss easily on the first try, I think..."Okay." If I face a boss, get beaten, and have to master the art of fighting him, then it feels much more satisfying once I finally defeat him. If I face a boss and die 100 times and get really frustrated while fighting him, then landing the final blow just feels like "FINALLY I get to move past this STUPID boss, UGH."

There's a fine line between a fun challenge and an annoying, frustrating obstacle. Or, I should say, the difference between those two things is different for every person. I guess that's why Easy / Normal / Hard modes exist; because people play games for different reasons.

 

[Clawsome Bombs]

I always just get a feel for the game by beating it on Normal before trying to go to Hard or Very Hard or Hell or "One Hit And You're Done, Son" mode. It's the people that start their very first playthroughs on the hardest mode possible that confuse me.

 

[IsaVulpes]

Is it so bad that I don't care about what people think of the size of my penis?

Yes, that's actually extremely bad.

If more people thought like you did, nobody would buy penispumps anymore.
With all the penispump sellers flooding the job market due to their newfound unemployment,
and a severe lack of tax money due to nobody buying them pumps no more,
the US economy would collapse within days.

You not caring about your penis size is the cause of all the bad things in the world.

 

[destruction_adv]

Hard mode is there for having fun with the challenge.

 

[SanoBaron]

I'm not denouncing playing the game on hard in general. I just don't see why not playing it is deemed a bad thing. in my eyes, "who cares so long as you like playing the game?"

Also DDB didn't say anything about that Sano...

well, sort of yes and no on whether he did or not. I often find that some people will ridicule others for not playing the game on hard mode, like they're less of a man or something. (IE, a dicking contest of sorts) Whether or not DDB meant it in that fashion, I don't know.

I think the exact contrary: overcoming a challenge means huge fun!
Best example: fighting games! When you beat someone you think was stronger than you, isn't it super fun?

I find a huge difference between playing the game on hard and playing someone online! XD and fighting games have conditioned me to hating final bosses with a passion. (NEHAHAHA! -port- NEHAHAHA! -port- NEHAHAHA! -port- )

 

[Camail]

Well some games are built around the idea of a challenge, but some people are simply better at videogames than others so there are difficulties for those people. This isn't the only reason, but it is one of them.

 

[Midiman]

I have never played my games on a difficulty higher than normal.

That's a nice thing to know. Why does this matter at all.

I honestly never understood why people say it makes the game better.

If you don't understand it, perhaps you don't understand the game in question, and the mechanics that make the ramp in difficulty interesting.

I just want to play something meant to be fun. not overcome a challenge.

Then find something you find fun and not a challenge. This game in particular is probably not for you for many reasons, difficulty included.

Why does the game have to make me mad at how hard it is when I don't have to play it that way?

The game doesn't have to make you mad, you chose to get mad for whichever reason you saw fit. There is no other difficulty in this game when you play other people, and the difficulties provided will not change

II don't know. Am I looking to hard into this?

Yes, yes you are. You're asking "why can't everything be made for me and my level of effort to put into this video game". It's not always about you. It's probably about what the creators had to say after toiling over their product and endlessly testing, iterating and choosing which features to prune, keep, improve and tweak.

The developer doesn't have to help you, they choose to.
The product doesn't have to help you, it is designed to in some way.

If you aren't good at the game and you don't see yourself getting good at it, you can quit or play something else.
If you feel like the game is too hard for your preferred amount of difficulty, don't play it, because the shit ain't changing

P.S. Why can't everything be made for me and only me? I hate life!

EDIT: If you give a shit about what people think about the games you play at what difficulty, that sounds like you need to put less stock into what other people think about you kiddo.

 

[destruction_adv]

I'm not denouncing playing the game on hard in general. I just don't see why not playing it is deemed a bad thing. in my eyes, "who cares so long as you like playing the game?"

I don't see why it's a bad thing either, but sometimes there are bonuses for playing on hard that make it worthwhile, so in those cases it's a bad thing IMO, but other than that, nah, only reason to play hard mode is for fun.

 

[SanoBaron]

That's a nice thing to know. Why does this matter at all.

If you don't understand it, perhaps you don't understand the game in question, and the mechanics that make the ramp in difficulty interesting.

Then find something you find fun and not a challenge. This game in particular is probably not for you for many reasons, difficulty included.

The game doesn't have to make you mad, you chose to get mad for whichever reason you saw fit. There is no other difficulty in this game when you play other people, and the difficulties provided will not change

Yes, yes you are. You're asking "why can't everything be made for me and my level of effort to put into this video game". It's not always about you. It's probably about what the creators had to say after toiling over their product and endlessly testing, iterating and choosing which features to prune, keep, improve and tweak.

The developer doesn't have to help you, they choose to.
The product doesn't have to help you, it is designed to in some way.

If you aren't good at the game and you don't see yourself getting good at it, you can quit or play something else.
If you feel like the game is too hard for your preferred amount of difficulty, don't play it, because the shit ain't changing

P.S. Why can't everything be made for me and only me? I hate life!

D: it was never my intention to denounce games that are built to be hard. I'm not denouncing hard games, I like hard games. I was questioning more on the mentality of the gaming public, not the mechanic of the game. I dont think I even mentioned playing hard games. just making the game harder is something I choose not to do. its like, I will never play the nuzlocke challenge, yet so many people think its weird that I wouldnt.

 

[destruction_adv]

That's a nice thing to know. Why does this matter at all.

If you don't understand it, perhaps you don't understand the game in question, and the mechanics that make the ramp in difficulty interesting.

Then find something you find fun and not a challenge. This game in particular is probably not for you for many reasons, difficulty included.

The game doesn't have to make you mad, you chose to get mad for whichever reason you saw fit. There is no other difficulty in this game when you play other people, and the difficulties provided will not change

Yes, yes you are. You're asking "why can't everything be made for me and my level of effort to put into this video game". It's not always about you. It's probably about what the creators had to say after toiling over their product and endlessly testing, iterating and choosing which features to prune, keep, improve and tweak.

The developer doesn't have to help you, they choose to.
The product doesn't have to help you, it is designed to in some way.

If you aren't good at the game and you don't see yourself getting good at it, you can quit or play something else.
If you feel like the game is too hard for your preferred amount of difficulty, don't play it, because the shit ain't changing

P.S. Why can't everything be made for me and only me? I hate life!

EDIT: If you give a shit about what people think about the games you play at what difficulty, that sounds like you need to put less stock into what other people think about you kiddo.

Dude, I'm almost sure this thread isn't about skullgirls.

 

[Lavama]

Unfortunately, I haven't really found a hard mode for Zero Mission. Let me know when there is an actual hard mode made.

I can see where you are coming from, but I love hard mode when I'm good at the game. RA3 Uprising kicked my ass at EASY, so I'm rather crap at fighters.


Also, INTERNET FIGHTING! GRAB THE CUPCAKES! THEY'LL PROVIDE THE SALT!

 

[SanoBaron]

Dude, I'm almost sure this thread isn't about skullgirls.

THANK YOU!

Unfortunately, I haven't really found a hard mode for Zero Mission. Let me know when there is an actual hard mode made.

I can see where you are coming from, but I love hard mode when I'm good at the game. RA3 Uprising kicked my ass at EASY, so I'm rather crap at fighters.


Also, INTERNET FIGHTING! GRAB THE CUPCAKES! THEY'LL PROVIDE THE SALT!

I;m not saying I don't ever do that. I'll play Skullgirls Arcade and Story on the harder modes because I've gotten better at it. (occasionally I'll play it on nightmare).

 

[Denizen]

Don't take it as an insult to your manhood, DDB is just like that. Besides it was really funny, especially considering it was the first post after the original post.

Also if you find that people are calling you a pansy because you only play games on normal mode then you should just stop hanging around those people. Or just kick their asses tell them that they play normal mode at LIFE.

Either way that should end this discussion.

 

[Camail]

Wow this thread got hostile for no reason at all...and the first comments were so promising too...

 

[SanoBaron]

Don't take it as an insult to your manhood, DDB is just like that. Besides it was really funny, especially considering it was the first post after the original post.

Also if you find that people are calling you a pansy because you only play games on normal mode then you should just stop hanging around those people. Or just kick their asses tell them that they play normal mode at LIFE.

Either way that should end this discussion.

I actually want to see how other people on here view difficulty modes though now. this is nice.

 

[Denizen]

Wow this thread got hostile for no reason at all...and the first comments were so promising too...

Midiman got super aggressive at Sanoblaze because he misinterpreted what Sano was trying to convey.

To be fair the way Sano worded his original post did make him sound a little like a self-centered whiner but I'm sure that's not was he was trying to convey. He's just mad that other people put him down for not playing games on higher difficulties. Also he wants to hear how other people play their games in terms of difficulty.

I'm right aren't I Sano?

 

[SanoBaron]

Midiman got super aggressive at Sanoblaze because he misinterpreted what Sano was trying to convey.

To be fair the way Sano worded his original post did make him sound a little like a self-centered whiner but I'm sure that's not was he was trying to convey. He's just mad that other people put him down for not playing games on higher difficulties and he wants to hear how other people play their games in terms of difficulty.

I'm right aren't I Sano?

Well, I'm not really mad so much as distressed.

 

[TN_Jonesboro]

I honestly never understood why people say it makes the game better. I just want to play something meant to be fun. not overcome a challenge. Why does the game have to make me mad at how hard it is when I don't have to play it that way?

You don't understand the joy of overcoming a great challenge? You don't know the satisfaction of continual self-improvement?

I know we're talking about video games here, but come on guy.

 

[SanoBaron]

You don't understand the joy of overcoming a great challenge? You don't know the satisfaction of continual self-improvement?

I know we're talking about video games here, but come on guy.

please forgive me. I worded my thoughts poorly. I'm sorry.

 

[Denizen]

@TN_Jonesboro did you just change your avatar within a minute of your post?

Also don't worry about it Sano it's OK.

 

[TN_Jonesboro]

@TN_Jonesboro did you just change your avatar within a minute of your post?

Yes. I haven't logged on to this site since I made my account. I like this one better.

Is that okay with you?

 

[Denizen]

Yes. I haven't logged on to this site since I made my account. I like this one better.

Is that okay with you?

Yeah that's fine, you don't need to ask me that. I just thought it was funny to see someone change after I refreshed.

 

[Midiman]

Midiman got super aggressive at Sanoblaze because he misinterpreted what Sano was trying to convey.

To be fair the way Sano worded his original post did make him sound a little like a self-centered whiner but I'm sure that's not was he was trying to convey. He's just mad that other people put him down for not playing games on higher difficulties. Also he wants to hear how other people play their games in terms of difficulty.

I'm right aren't I Sano?

Yeah that's pretty much what happened. That's definitely my bad, Sano. luv u

 

[Squire Grooktook]

It kinda depends on the game and the type of challenge.

Anyway reasons for playing on harder difficulties:

1: Excitement. To me, all true excitement is born from tension. Tension is born from the possibility of something bad happening. Tension can come from the story, or it can come from the gameplay. If the gameplay is to have tension, and therefore excitement, it needs to have penalties for failure. And in order for those penalties to be relevent, failure must not only be a real possibility, but a probability.

For example, Contra is exciting because it is extremely challenging, and also kicks you back to the very beginning of the game when you die. When you finally make it to the last stage and have one life left, your palms are sweating, your heart is beating. You are excited and engaged, and have most likely lost track of the time.

2: "Tightness" and engagement. I like my level design to be "tight". That is to say, I want the game to compel you forward and force you to think and act in reaction to specific challenges within the game. While it is possible for level design to be tight without being particularly challenging, challenge and tightness still go hand in hand. Pressuring the player to think and react in certain correct ways is what challenge is all about.

For example, a game that is not tight is something like Kirby. In Kirby, there's a feeling that nothing truly matters. No one ever talks about how clever or interesting the level design is in Kirby. The reason for this is because it is not "tight". There is nothing that pressures you or forces you to think and react, and on top of that you have a million ways to approach the stage (walking, jumping, running, or flying) that don't really effect the challenge or make a difference one way or another. As a result, even though I've played through each of the Kirby games at least several times, I can't even remember how most of the levels are layed out.

A game like Contra on the other hand, tends to impress players with the tightness of its level design. Every moment of the stage has value, pressuring the player to think and react, as well as change to a different strategy for each new hazard. This is why games like Contra, Metal Slug, Castlevania, etc. tend to often get compared to one another in the level design department and argued over which is better.

3: Immersion and satisfaction. To tell the truth, I am more concerned with the pleasure of moment to moment gameplay (which lasts the entirety of play time) then the sense of satisfaction in overcoming a daunting challenge (which lasts for all of...5 minutes or so. Maybe). That being said, I still feel that high challenge in general makes things feel more like an epic adventure, and leads to higher immersion, engagement, and satisfaction.

So in summation, I find greater difficulty to be:

More exciting
More stimulating
More immersive

 

[Kai]

Hard mode is good for people that have been playing games for a while. When I first started playing video games, the average player-to-game relationship was that you had to overcome the game. Games would build obstacles for you to overcome. Now days, games still nominally adhere to this idea, but they've replaced actual obstacles with faux obstacles: things that just make you feel like you've overcome something.

Most games are too easy, these days, so if you don't add extra challenge, I feel like I'm just playing QTEs. The best time I've had recently was playing Vanquish on the harder difficulties. Real, good obstacles to overcome.

 

[Denizen]

Well I believe one of the reasons why games have gotten easier is that games have gotten better, I mean with graphics, programming, story telling, etc. Games like Super Mario, Contra, and Sonic now have to share room with games like Metal Gear, Uncharted, and The Last Of Us. These are games that are capable of entertaining people without being too hard. In fact I would go as far as to say that these games are MORE entertaining when you aren't dealing with dying over and over again. Games getting easier is not necessarily a bad thing. It's just that games back in the day could only be entertaining when they difficult.

My first play through of The Last Of Us was an emotional journey, it actually changed some of my views on the world. Playing through it again on Survivior Mode is fun, but it will never match that first experience I had with it. I also don't believe that if I had played it on Survivor Mode the first time around that I would have enjoyed it more. The same goes for Metal Gear. People don't play Metal Gear to challenge themselves with tactical espionage action on the highest level. People play Metal Gear because it's a series of blockbuster movies and a philosophical experience. Or at least that's why they should play it.

Games with weaker stories like Mario, The Legend of Zelda, or Dead Space are more fun when they are more challenging. It's not even that black and white. I love Assassin's Creed games, and I don't play them for the storyline, even though it's writing is pretty great. I play assassin's Creed because I get to play as an unstoppable force of stealthy death. I love being able to wipe out entire camps with ease, whether it be through stealth or direct combat. However, as soon as the game get's hard, as soon as enemies are able to spot me easily, as soon as enemies are able to effectively counterattack, I start to enjoy the game less.

So whether it's better to play a game on easy, normal, or hard mode depends not only on the player, but also the game itself. There is no such thing as "Hard Mode > Easy Mode" or vice versa. It's all opinion.

 

[destruction_adv]

I think this applies here.

 

[Squire Grooktook]

In fact I would go as far as to say that these games are MORE entertaining when you aren't dealing with dying over and over again.

False. While it may be more subjectively entertaining for you, the fact of the matter is that gameplay entertainment and story entertainment appeal to two completely different parts of the brain, in much the same way that audio and visual appeal to two different parts of the brain.

A story can never simulate the visceral stimulation you get from good gameplay, and good gameplay can never simulate the emotional reaction that comes from a good story.

At least, that's what I believe.

*edit*

Also I agree with everything in that Extra Creditz video EXCEPT iteration time, which is both subjective and dependent on the type of game and the type of challenge.

 

[Denizen]

False...

...At least, that's what I believe.

You're confusing me here.

 

[Squire Grooktook]

You're confusing me here.

I strongly believe it to be false.

 

[destruction_adv]

Also I agree with everything in that Extra Creditz video EXCEPT iteration time, which is both subjective and dependent on the type of game and the type of challenge.

yeah, I disagree with stuff Extra Creditz says at times too, but they're still gold for someone who's trying to make games (like me) as are threads like this.

Also, I'd like to say that I disagree with Denizen. How much fun the difficulty contributes is dependant on the player of the game, not the game itself. I myself like playing Assassin's Creed when it get's difficult.

 

[Squire Grooktook]

yeah, I disagree with stuff Extra Creditz says at times too, but they're still gold for someone who's trying to make games (like me) as are threads like this.

Also, I'd like to say that I disagree with Denizen. How much fun the difficulty contributes is dependant on the player of the game, not the game itself. I myself like playing Assassin's Creed when it get's difficult.

Yeah, Extra Creditz is great though because they generally don't say too much you can really disagree with. They mostly stick with logical, common sense type stuff that you might not have thought of but that you can't (and have no reason to) disagree with. Every now and then they do say one or two things that are arguable or subjective, but it's rare.

And yeah, it's all subjective and dependent on what you're looking for (and capable of experiencing).

 

[Denizen]

First, Everyone who's deeply invested in this thread should watch that video, it's really good.

Second, taking some things from that video I'd like to clarify something. Some games are deliciously difficult at normal mode, but disgustingly punishing at hard mode. I'm just trying to say that harder does not equal better and that the type of game affects whether people like playing games on certain difficulties.

Nothing is objective, but more people may enjoy a certain type of game on hard mode and less people enjoy it on easy mode, and vice versa for a different type of game. it's not a 50/50 thing.

Sorry if you can't understand my wording.