POLL: Keep Fukua in the game?

[Ruin]

when's Cererainbow Mikabella
with guitar riff devil horns taunt blockbuster

 

[KhaosMuffins]

Considering that one of the main complaints about Skullgirls is the lack of characters, I can't see a good reason to not let Fukua stay in.

 

[PaperBag_Sniper]

I like the mini-hairballs. And I think the placeholder-y feeling adds to the lulzy charm. If we gave her anything legitimately new (from scratch), it'd take away from her "take jabs at Capcom" vibe.

See, this among other comments in the thread is why I'm voting no for Fukua now. I've had a chance to play around with her and I like the idea behind her but I'm not invested in the whole "Ironicly bad character" in Skullgirls. If she is going to be a real character she needs to be polished up, fix her animations and if need be add some in-betweens and change some move properties. If that means that Fukua doesn't get released until Robo-Fortune than fine, put some freaking effort into her. But as she is now, she's nothing more than a hastily put together proof of concept.

One thing I've really liked about the DLC characters is the amount of detail and care that has been put into their animations and move lists. Squigly and Big Band are gorgeous and Eliza is adding onto that in spades. I'm fine with Fukua being a poke at cloned characters in fighting games, I don't want her to actually be the punchline.

 

[IsaVulpes]

Considering that one of the main complaints about Skullgirls is the lack of characters, I can't see a good reason to not let Fukua stay in.

So why did we IGG for 5 new characters instead of for 50 new clones? Would fix the lack of characters complaint instantly

 

[Chicken Boo]

Considering that one of the main complaints about Skullgirls is the lack of characters, I can't see a good reason to not let Fukua stay in.

After all of the DLC characters the roster will nearly be doubled. Also didn't a lot of people complain that the game didn't have a Combo breaker? Not all complaints are warranted.

(Did I use the word warranted correctly?)

 

[gllt]

At least she's not drawn SBAHJ style, but if she was, I'd want her even more.

I TOLD YOU ABOUT THE ARMORED COMMAND GRABS BRO

 

[Seriphx]

This is probably the most productive use of salt i've ever seen. I'm starting to believe that Mike Z is god's gift to game development.

 

[Ruin]

I almost expect Mike Z to keep her exactly as is out of spite at this point
and I will love him for it

 

[KhaosMuffins]

So why did we IGG for 5 new characters instead of for 50 new clones? Would fix the lack of characters complaint instantly

I'm missing something here. So that means she shouldn't be in because....?

After all of the DLC characters the roster will nearly be doubled. Also didn't a lot of people complain that the game didn't have a Combo breaker? Not all complaints are warranted.

(Did I use the word warranted correctly?)

It guess it would've been more accurate to say that a lot of people complained about the character amount because they could not really find anyone that they liked. That's a pretty reasonable complaint. Maybe some people will like Fukua.

 

[CrackedMarbles]

I don't fully understand why some people are setting up their soap boxes on this. Fukua's a fun character to a lot of people, clearly. Mike made a joke that ended up being really entertaining in more ways than intended (At least, clearly intended. For all we know, Mike's been planning this for a long time).

She's no worse than Decapre is, and at least she has her own palettes. She's fun and not frustrating (More than I can say about my experiences with Filia), and doesn't have combos that'll make people frustrated.

There's things that could and SHOULD (Money's tight right now, though) be done to improve her, but at least Mike didn't take the low road and just make another slot that essentially lets you choose two Filias, only one's name is Fukua.

EDIT: Made post less of an eyesore.

 

[AlexOfspades]

I'm missing something here. So that means she shouldn't be in because....?

Because quality over quantity.

 

[KhaosMuffins]

Because quality over quantity.

She adds to the quantity. She may not be of the highest quality but she doesn't necessarily detract from the overall quality of the game.

 

[Ruin]

remember prepatch double
that was some tasty quality right there
quality like the animation of Polyphonica

 

[shoryusatsu999]

Because quality over quantity.

Quality is not static.

 

[Flotilla]

Because quality over quantity.

She plays very differently from Filia and I've had nothing but fun fighting with and against her. I'd say she's pretty quality.

And FYI to you and Isa, you can like Fukua while still liking the original characters more. It's not a black and white situation, so don't insult people's taste by saying that they would gladly shell out $800K for a bunch of clone characters.

 

[Chicken Boo]

I'm missing something here. So that means she shouldn't be in because....?


It guess it would've been more accurate to say that a lot of people complained about the character amount because they could not really find anyone that they liked. That's a pretty reasonable complaint. Maybe some people will like Fukua.

Liking Fukua is fine, but the character in its current state is of horrible quality and would need a lot of touch up that would require time and resources. If the community wants Fukua as a legit character that's fine. But her current state is a sloppy mess, and since MikeZ said that the frames cannot be improved (stated as such in the IRC chat) Fukua comes off as tacky. Don't let this be the future of Skullgirls:

 

[CrackedMarbles]

She adds to the quantity. She may not be of the highest quality but she doesn't detract from the overall quality of the game.

I can understand where he's coming from, but I also agree with you. She was made in about a week, from what Mike said (Not including Palette creation I assume) and that's pretty apparent from how her sprites look and some of the bugs.

However, I also see little harm in keeping her. Most other fighting games have SEVERAL clones, it shouldn't be too bad for us to have one...

 

[shoryusatsu999]

Liking Fukua is fine, but the character in its current state is of horrible quality and would need a lot of touch up that would require time and resources. If the community wants Fukua as a legit character that's fine. But her current state is a sloppy mess, and since MikeZ said that the frames cannot be improved (stated as such in the IRC chat) Fukua comes off as tacky. Don't let this be the future of Skullgirls:

What you're talking about with the frames is a polish problem. There is such a thing as quality without polish.

 

[Jutsei]

So this is still going on?
I'm legitimately surprised.

 

[Chicken Boo]

What you're talking about with the frames is a polish problem. There is such a thing as quality without polish.

I think the proper term for it is called "Half-assed"

 

[Clawsome Bombs]

I just went to class for about 3 hours.

I came back and Skullheart is still in Fukua fever.

I'm so sorry, anti-Fukua peeps. You aren't winning this one. Just sit back and enjoy.

VIVA LA FUKUA LOCA

 

[ClarenceMage]

She has a unique playstyle. She has the capacity to be another good Skullgirls character.

She would be a complete waste of space and time if she was Dan Hibiki tier, but she is a new character who has the capacity to be a legit competitor in this limited roster.

Polish be damned, the joke works, the character works, the character is playable though needing tweaks which will inevitably happen over time. I am happy.

 

[shoryusatsu999]

So this is still going on?
I'm legitimately surprised.

I'm not. I'd say why, but that would only get people saltier.

 

[IsaVulpes]

I'm missing something here. So that means she shouldn't be in because....?

That means she shouldn't be in because you're exchanging one bad (lack of characters) with another one (lack of polish).

SG isn't faultless; the main thing to a casual observer being the lack of characters. Even after the IGG is done, 13 chars in a 3v3 is just not a whole lot.
What SG however DOES have, is an incredible amount of work, love and polish poured into each and every single one of the characters. They're all vastly unique; even the designated copy character Double is entirely different from the rest of the cast, the animation quality is top notch and just looking at the game you can see that it's an indie product where the Dev decided
"Well, with our budget, we could go with a bunch badly animated shitty drawn palette swap characters, or we consciously say 'Fuck that!' and instead make a 100% quality game, where the lack of budget will not show in lack of polish, but the opposite - we will create the best possibly framework (most advanced training mode of all time, intelligent lobby concept, unique characters, strong balance, S+ animations, tbc) and instead bite the bullet of having a smaller cast"

With the entrance of Fukua, we will have a game that STILL has a low amount of characters, and on top of that has shitty animation quality, bad copy characters, no love in the product - one bad ruins the entire thing; much like how a single badly balanced character ruins the entire game's balance, much like how a single shitty musician ruins an entire orchestra, a single badly animated "let's just copy 90% of normals, change the specials a bit, put in a bunch of new supers, change one movement option and call it a day" character ruins the entire polish of SG.
Would you say "More characters is always good, let's introduce this one extra character who is badly balanced and blatantly broken"?

IF you think that the lack of characters is a bigger bad than the lack of polish, then SG went the wrong route from the start but could at least fix it now by scratching Beowulf, tossing Eliza in the game the way she is right now and just recycling a bunch of animations to add 10 'new' bad characters rather than 2 fresh ones.

 

[Blackbeltsam]

I started playing around with Fukua.


She's my new main. She has everything I would want from a fighting game character. She just kinda clicks, you know?

 

[Ruin]

I think the proper term for it is called "Half-assed"

the diamond we just mined isn't precut and sparkling throw it away it's no use to us

 

[Chicken Boo]

the diamond we just mined isn't precut and sparkling throw it away it's no use to us

Are you sure that's a diamond and not cubic zirconia?

 

[CrackedMarbles]

*Snip*

See, I appreciate and understand where you're coming from, I really do. Fukua is just /really/ fun to play. It's shocking how much fun I'm having with her! I thought I'd never open my comfortable CereCock nest to a guest, and here she is!

She showed up at the door with a vague "I'll be there soon," bringing snacks, a laptop and her own controller. She's so very quickly become a character I have fun playing and she's really helped freshen the game up for me again, as ironic as that is with her being a clone.

 

[Banazama]

Welp, lots of people are taking the existence of this character kind of personally. And here I am trying to use reason.


I was going to put a list of reasons for keeping Fukua, but the accumulation of bad logic forces my hand.

Sound Reasons for excluding Fukua

1. Fukua Looks Bad + Maintaining the Level of Quality in the game.
Fukua was made between 3-7 days (as far as word of mouth goes) and it shows. When compared to the rest of the cast, Fukua looks lacking to put it lightly. To quote Chicken Boo: "her animations are choppy and lacks consistent flow."
Fukua is also nearly indistinguishable from Filia at first glance which is a jarring in contrast to the rest of the cast, who are all fleshed-out and unique. As Skullgirls advertises itself on quality animation and it's diverse character roster (to make up for how small it is), Fukua can be perceived to be undermining the game.

Rebuttal:
None. There is no arguing against an objective fact regarding Fukua's lesser quality.

2. Not Getting the Joke/Joke wears off.
This objection is tied with #1. The premise is that eventually the joke concept of Fukua will lose its charm over time, and/or that anyone unaware of the joke would misinterpret the character as developer laziness. The game is then stuck with a lack-luster character that has nothing else going for it.

Rebuttal:
Fukua has other things going for her other than the joke. Skullheart members have expressed how they like or even prefer Fukua's playstyle compared to other members of the cast.
Also, a way to circumvent the second part of the problem is to make Fukua even more of joke than she already is so that there is no way to misinterpret regardless of context. The downside is that this may degenerate the character further.

3. Fukua will require resources Lab 0 does not have.
Granting the premise that Fukua is not fit to be added to Skullgirls in her current state, then she should be polished to the point where it becomes acceptable. This includes creating new animations and rebalancing. Lab 0 simply cannot afford this as their financial status is reported to be less than stellar. Also, should Lab 0 take time and resources to further develop Fukua, they would be delaying the inclusion of already promised DLC characters.

Rebuttal:
The inclusion and polishing of Fukua does not necessitate compromising promised DLC characters. Fukua could simply be put on the backburner until the other DLC characters are finished.
Based on anecdotes such as "The Typing of Skullgirls" and the inclusion of Fukua in the first place, it would seem that Mike Z has some form of spare time. Therefore time may not be as valuable a resource as the opposition may claim.
Though I must concede that any new physical resources such as animation and audio is out of Lab 0's reach. The best we can expect of Fukua is a character that will functionally equal the rest of the Skullgirls cast, but not visually.

EDIT: Said I would list some reason for inclusion, and well, why stop now?

Sound Reasons to Include Fukua

I. Additional Character
The biggest criticism against Skullgirls is it's small roster size. While the characters are diverse enough to cover the entire spectrum of playstyles, 13 characters is not enough for a team based game. Seeing the same characters far more frequently than any other fighter is a detriment regardless of how varied and unique individual teams might be.
The addition of Fukua would put one more option into the game which is inherently good as it gives another character for players to resonate with, and adds another playstyle.

Rebuttal:
An increase in roster from 13 to 14 is not significant enough to be considered past the hurdle of "small roster size." The addition of another character may also not be enough justification to include something as unpolished as Fukua.

II. Overwhelming Positive Response
Nearly 300 votes yes on this thread, 1600 likes on the youtube video, and multiple threads on the Steam community page asking to keep her.

Rebuttal:
As of right now, people may be riding the high that is the hype and hilarity of Fukua and are not thinking rationally. Also, what people want in a game may not be what is best for the game.





tl;dr at least please read the stuff below


Invalid Reasons for Excluding Fukua (Because I hate bad logic. Don't use it guys)

Seriously guys, you are literally asking for a character with a broken super. WTF.

Straw Man.

Be careful what you wish for, for this path may lead to the Smash Bros series where its roster is polluted with soulless clone characters.

Slippery Slope Fallacy.

Keeping her in ruins the entire joke in favor of showing Capcom that Decapre is actually hype and a good thing

False Analogy.

She's the best Joke of all time, and not only would the Joke itself get ruined by making her a real character, you'd also be blatantly stating that a character that was tossed together in 3 days for free is good enough to stand next to the rest of the SG chars. What the shit is L0 even working so hard for, and why did we donate $829829? With that money, they could make 50 Fukuas instead of 5 new characters.

Appeal to Consequences.

Invalid Reasons to Include Fukua

Plenty of other fighters have embraced the clone character renaissance period.

Argumentum ad populum.

We already have Double and Robo Fortune is coming so SG was never shy about recycling animations.

False Analogy.

 

[POS Industries]

Is it bad that I just keep imagining the Anti-Fukua Brigade as the Turks from Final Fantasy VII?

Considering that they were the best part of the game, that's quite the compliment.

 

[SanoBaron]

Fukua is pretty much Catgirl Without A Salad Part 2.

everybody wants it and theres no good reason it shouldnt be given.

 

[Rance]

I swear to god SG community, if you take clark-throw from me...

 

[Light-Triforce]

You know what other color palettes that Fukua should have? lol

Sakurai's favorite word when it came to Brawl next too tripping.

 

[Jutsei]

This is just such a jarring experience.
I thought the Waifu Wars were over.
Son
the Waifu Wars are never over.

 

[Chicken Boo]

I wasn't aware "Slippery Slope Fallacy" was a thing. I learned something. =D

Bad logic or no, I stand by my point. I'd rather have a small roster of unique characters rather than a large roster consistent of clones and palette swaps. If Fukua was worked on and polished up, I would shut up about her.

 

[PaperBag_Sniper]

the diamond we just mined isn't precut and sparkling throw it away it's no use to us

Likewise you don't see many pre-cut diamonds in the display case of your local jewelry store. I have nothing against Fukua as a character or a joke. But people in this thread look like they are willing to settle for far less than this game deserves and it's worrisome. She does need some more work but Mike has gone on record saying that he won't change her frames and the rest of her animations look sloppy at best. Gameplay wise there seems to be some debate to the utility of some of her moves and at least two of her blockbusters.

I don't even expect her not to get into the game though, so for all it's worth I just need to know from the staff of Lab Zero, since they are willing to back this, is whether or not actual effort will be put into fixing and refining this character. Otherwise my vote (however small and in the minority) will stay no.

 

[Flotilla]

Gameplay wise there seems to be some debate to the utility of some of her moves and at least two of her blockbusters.

If there is anything that is dumb, it's trying to talk about a character's viability when she has been out for less than 15 hours.

No offense to you, but it just shouldn't be a part of any argument involving Fukua.

 

[SanoBaron]

I love how people bring up "large roster of clone characters" but from what I can tell,

theres only ONE Fukua.

compared to a total of 13 other characters that will be in the main game.

1:13

large roster indeed.

 

[Φ]

I love how people bring up "large roster of clone characters" but from what I can tell,

theres only ONE Fukua.

compared to a total of 13 other characters that will be in the main game.

1:13

apparently overabundant.

I dunno... seems like some people had a bad experience with MK's ninjas.

 

[RetroStation]

I just finished a set with @Icky using Fukua. She definitely needs work, but she's totally viable. The j.HK > j.HP loop as a CH is a nightmare for Big Band. Also, BFF Super is hella stupid with its invincibility. And somehow her standard cmd grab beats out meaty grabs (I think).

I'm fine with Fukua as she is, but I also welcome any balancing Mike may do to her over time, since the animation polish isn't happening (Mike said it himself, so please stop bringing that up). All we can hope for at this point is gameplay/balance tweaks.