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Shin Megami Tensei and Persona

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
let's talk about murders
like that one comic everyone read
that's still funny and relevant right???????????
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
 
The combination of bobrossfreak's efforts and the one true pie just made my morning
I'm just

 
lol the fan-base is going ape-shit with the official confirmation that Persona Q is canon. That bit of news seemed to receive mixed reception since you seriously need some silly deus ex machina plot device to pull that off. People are already comparing the game to the Star Wars prequels and pretending it never existed in the canon timeline.
Makoto might as well be resurrected for Arena now (flashbacks of FFX-2 now yay) since Atlus clearly showing they aren't shy to make anything happen even if it dampens the P3/Answer endings as a result. They might as well bring back Shinji too and the excuse will be "It was just a flesh wound and I was frozen in a different demension this whole time". Even Takaya will appear in the end which will be "I kept myself alive through sheer determination all this time". For the record I wouldn't mind to see resurrections happen to get new playable fighters if it doesn't throw the plot out the 50th floor window as a cost because it leaves a bittersweet taste in my mouth.
 
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guessing since adachi didn't have a shadow quote at the end of the trailer I guess he's gonna be like Elizabeth and have no shadow option?
 
It's canon.

YO UULLLLLLLL

I love that it's cannon, but the Persona team is starting to pull that Kingdom Hearts shit where you need like 5 different consoles to play their games.

Either put it on everything or put it on one thing.

People need either a Ps1, Psp, Ps2, PsVita,Ps3 and NOW a 3ds to play through all of the Persona games.

Getting a little foolish.

@Number 13 : You're getting a little foolish.

And I am tired of putting spoiler tags on a 8 year old game, I am done with it.

Minato coming back is fine because he was never dead in the first place, unlike Shinji and Takaya or Chidori.

Those guys are dead and gone, just like Youskue's love interest, she's gone.

Minato is for real the strongest thing in the Persona canon and has the backing of the second/third/fourth strongest thing? Elizabeth is probably number 3 or 4 in terms of power, behind Igor or Philemon.

Just like how Izanami will come back if the world screws up enough, Minato coming back if they find something else to barrier Nyx is okay. It doesn't hurt the ending of any other game's ending.
 
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I just wanna beat people up as Eikichi is that so much to ask
 
"Just a flesh wound"

Lol I can't

iLoli said:
It's canon.

YO UULLLLLLLL

I love that it's cannon, but the Persona team is starting to pull that Kingdom Hearts shit where you need like 5 different consoles to play their games.

Either put it on everything or put it on one thing.

People need either a Ps1, Psp, Ps2, PsVita,Ps3 and NOW a 3ds to play through all of the Persona games.

Getting a little foolish.

@Number 13 : You're getting a little foolish.

And I am tired of putting spoiler tags on a 8 year old game, I am done with it.

Minato coming back is fine because he was never dead in the first place, unlike Shinji and Takaya or Chidori.

Those guys are dead and gone, just like Youskue's love interest, she's gone.

Minato is for real the strongest thing in the Persona canon and has the backing of the second/third/fourth strongest thing? Elizabeth is probably number 3 or 4 in terms of power, behind Igor or Philemon.

Just like how Izanami will come back if the world screws up enough, Minato coming back if they find something else to barrier Nyx is okay. It doesn't hurt the ending of any other game's ending.

Don't worry, I'm sure there's gonna be some kind of "Persona 20th Anniversary" thing where 1-4 is included in one package. Then you only need a 3DS.

I'm not really all for bringing back characters that are dead (I agree with you about Minato) because they've shaped who our characters are. Bringing them back wouldn't make me rage, but it would kind of be like going to a party and all the soda is flat. You can still drink it but ehhhhhh

But as long as we're doing that, when's King Moron DLC
 
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And besides, Minato's Jesus symbolisms out the ass.

A revival wouldn't be out of place at all.
 
jesus symbolism??????
what???????

Messiah.png
noooooooooooooooooooooooo
 
He would have to go back to being dead, to save the impact of the original story
 
Wouldn't mind a temporary revive even though it would feel cheesy.
 
DeathArcana said:
He would have to go back to being dead, to save the impact of the original story
Why so?

It's not like him dying made the story better.

If you have to kill off a character to give your story weight, you don't have a good story.

He's done his bid and people have felt the emotional impact for 8 years, now.

I'm pretty sure he was never even meant to stay dead, they just couldn't find the right time to bring him back, or maybe this IS the time they've thought about.

There has not been a single story where a character's death have made the story better.

Takayaka and Chidori could have been hospitalized, Shinji could have been put in Jail, and Minato could have been sent off to a different dimension (which is what happened) and the story would still be strong.

Marie could have turned all of Valentine's team into brainwashed Ninjas instead of outright killing them and that portion of the story would be just as strong.

The point is to have the reader or audience feel emotional weight, and that can be done any manner of ways.

Minato coming back under the right writing will be just as strong a scene as Minato losing his life under the right writing.
 
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iLoli said:
Why so?

It's not like him dying made the story better.

If you have to kill off a character to give your story weight, you don't have a good story.

He's done his bid and people have felt the emotional impact for 8 years, now.

I'm pretty sure he was never even meant to stay dead, they just couldn't find the right time to bring him back, or maybe this IS the time they've thought about.

There has not been a single story where a character's death have made the story better.

Takayaka and Chidori could have been hospitalized, Shinji could have been put in Jail, and Minato could have been sent off to a different dimension (which is what happened) and the story would still be strong.

Marie could have turned all of Valentine's team into brainwashed Ninjas instead of outright killing them and that portion of the story would be just as strong.

The point is to have the reader or audience feel emotional weight, and that can be done any manner of ways.

Minato coming back under the right writing will be just as strong a scene as Minato losing his life under the right writing.
I agree on minato, but I don't think I'd have liked to see Rei or Toki come back in hokuto no ken or something like that. The thing is Minato HAS a way back.
 
destruction_adv said:
I agree on minato, but I don't think I'd have liked to see Rei or Toki come back in hokuto no ken or something like that. The thing is Minato HAS a way back.
Well, yeah, that's the point.
Hell, it'd be WEIRDER to think that Elizabeth, one of the 4 or 5 people who "Rules Over Power" FAILING in her mission to bring him back.

To me, it was all a matter of time and not "will they?"
 
iLoli said:
Well, yeah, that's the point.
Hell, it'd be WEIRDER to think that Elizabeth, one of the 4 or 5 people who "Rules Over Power" FAILING in her mission to bring him back.

To me, it was all a matter of time and not "will they?"
I'm disagreeing with the part where you said a character's death can never make a story better. Not that part.
 
I would leave a wall of text listing iconic books, films, plays, anime/manga/LN, and game plots where character deaths did indeed leave a bigger positive impact to the plot as opposed to keeping them alive for the sake of them living, but that would be a big waste of time for everyone and wouldn't change anything when arguing against other peoples opinions. Would turn out like the earlier arguments in this thread where people were frantically debating that X SMT/Persona game game is better then Y SMT/Persona game so I digress on this topic. If Makoto is resurrected for the happy ending route then great, but if he remains dead then that is fine with me too since I never had a problem with how things originally ended several years ago and more so after completing The Answer.
 
Just for the record, I'd be fine with Minato/Makoto coming back.
Would it lessen the impact of his death? Maybe.
But would the twist at the end of P3 still be there, as well as the impact of his self sacrifice? Definitely.

Let's look at Phoenix/Jean Grey, even though she's died a fucking million times, and the act of her dying has definitely lost impact, the first time it happened is still pretty impactful, don't you think?
People still remember it, that's for sure.
 
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Jutsei said:
Just for the record, I'd be fine with Minato/Makoto coming back.
Would it lessen the impact of his death? Maybe.
But would the twist at the end of P3 still be there, as well as the impact of his self sacrifice? Definitely.

Let's look at Krillin, even though he's died a fucking million times, and the act of his dying has definitely lost impact, the first time it happened is still pretty impactful, don't you think?
People still remember it, that's for sure.

YOLAMTASRY
 
Jutsei said:
Just for the record, I'd be fine with Minato/Makoto coming back.
Would it lessen the impact of his death? Maybe.
But would the twist at the end of P3 still be there, as well as the impact of his self sacrifice? Definitely.
I'd be ok if he came back but there's some big lasting effect about it.

we're probably gonna get "i have to go now my planet needs me."
 
If Minato does in fact come back, I see a sacrifice being made.

Maybe Elizabeth having to give up her V. Room privileges?
 
iLoli said:
If Minato does in fact come back, I see a sacrifice being made.

Maybe Elizabeth having to give up her V. Room privileges?

Would that really be enough?
 
I still feel like Minato would be more of a clone of Yu.

and everyone keeps mentioning how he could have multiple Personas, but, Yu has the wildcard yet he sticks with Izanagi and ONLY Izanagi, and Yu is confirmed to still have the wild card in the story mode, so I doubt Minato would have it differently

BeatNinja said:
Would that really be enough?
I highly doubt it.
 
BeatNinja said:
Would that really be enough?
Considering where this series goes, one less powerful ally like Elizabeth could be pretty important.

They could be going with the "M.E. is the big bad of the series, Nyarlatheop has a hand in all of this, time to go push his teeth in". Having Elizabeth or even the entire V. Room sitting out would be a pretty big loss.

We also don't know how far the power of a Velvet room sitter goes.

So far we have Minato, whose final Arcana is the whole damn universe, with the power to hold off Nyx and Erebus. (Mind you, everyone else had to do their best just to beat back her avatar)
Yu, with the power to beat back a demi-god.
The V.Room siblings, who are basically demi-gods, having seemingly limitless power and infinite resources.
Marie, another demi-god.
Igor, who manages the whole thing.
Philemon, with the power to outright bend reality, creating the V.room and leaving Igor in charge.

Giving up that kind of power isn't trivial.
 
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Fair enough. Out of the three Velvet Siblings, I think Liz is probably the strongest out of 'em all, so yeah, it'd be a blow to Igor and such.
 
Sanoblaze said:
I still feel like Minato would be more of a clone of Yu.

and everyone keeps mentioning how he could have multiple Personas, but, Yu has the wildcard yet he sticks with Izanagi and ONLY Izanagi, and Yu is confirmed to still have the wild card in the story mode, so I doubt Minato would have it differently


I highly doubt it.

I personally felt that he could take advantage of the fact that he can equip multiple weapon types (sword, bow, spear, boxing gloves, etc) but someone pointed out that everyone from P3 covers any weapon role he could represent.
Oh wait, I just thought of something. What if he used the thing Shinji used? What was it? Some kind of hammer or heavy weapon?

Plus Liz losing her boss powers seems fine to me...as payment for bluntly disobeying her role and clearly interfering in mortal beezwax. Like Mr. Loli here has stated, if they are all gearing up to fight Nyarly or something, losing power like that is bad news.

So if the theory is true, I'd wager that Liz's punishment would wait until after the big showdown.
 
iLoli said:
.
So far we have Minato, whose final Arcana is the whole damn universe, with the power to hold off Nyx. (Mind you, everyone else had to do their best just to beat back her avatar)
Here's something I find funny, the cast of P1 actually BEAT Nyx in the Snow Queen quest (under the name night queen). Granted it might be like Satan and Lucifer being seperate entites, but still I find it funny.
 
Hell, anyone remember when Liz TELEPORTED EREBUS TO THE MOON AND BODIED HIM?

She really can't pull P3 protag back?

It's pretty much established that Liz can body Erebus, the problem is that Erebus is seemingly immortal because the concept of Nyx is.......Well, a concept, you can't outright kill an idea.

She already beat it down, she just has to find a way to beat it back and keep it from reviving every single year.
 
destruction_adv said:
Here's something I find funny, the cast of P1 actually BEAT Nyx in the Snow Queen quest (under the name night queen). Granted it might be like Satan and Lucifer being seperate entites, but still I find it funny.
Yeah, I was just about to make that point.

It seems that beating Nyx isn't the super hard part,(eeehh, that's the wrong word, the P1 characters levels are MUCH MUCH higher in the Snow Queen route than the SEBEC) it's keeping her down, because she's an idea.

She could have gotten an upgrade from being Queen Ashura into an actual idea.
 
Jutsei said:
Apparently Yu promises to see Minato again some day in the first fucking minute of the P3 Route in Persona Q.
That is very strongly hinting at him bringing them back.

Yu's promises are stronger than any ol' idea

Anyway, I thought the problem was not keeping Nyx back (cause it's not inherently dangerous) but keeping the thing that keeps calling it forth back, Erebus. Liz seems on the verge of figuring this out without forming max Social Links with everyone on Earth. But until then, she herself goes to beat down Erebus.

....

Wait
If she's been doing that all this time, then what does Minato have to babysit Nyx for? I mean, it's not like Liz ever gets tired and it's not like Minato's soul isn't just sitting there. Maybe he needs a body to enter the world through again.
 
Sanoblaze said:
I still feel like Minato would be more of a clone of Yu.

and everyone keeps mentioning how he could have multiple Personas, but, Yu has the wildcard yet he sticks with Izanagi and ONLY Izanagi, and Yu is confirmed to still have the wild card in the story mode, so I doubt Minato would have it differently


I highly doubt it.
Remember that Yu is effectively the main character of this game. As a general rule, the main character of a given game must be the easiest character to play as, and what easier archetype is there than a shoto. I think if P3MC does come back, he won't be the same case simply because he's not the main character of this game.

Plus, as mentioned before, his wild card abilities are a bit more powerful than Yu's are, with the ability to use multiple weapons as well as using Fusion techniques. I could see him being the obligatory stance character a la Amaterasu if they decide to go that route. If they use Fusion techniques, though, then his instant kill should be obvious.
 
Clawsome Bombs said:
Yu's promises are stronger than any ol' idea

Anyway, I thought the problem was not keeping Nyx back (cause it's not inherently dangerous) but keeping the thing that keeps calling it forth back, Erebus. Liz seems on the verge of figuring this out without forming max Social Links with everyone on Earth. But until then, she herself goes to beat down Erebus.

....

Wait
If she's been doing that all this time, then what does Minato have to babysit Nyx for? I mean, it's not like Liz ever gets tired and it's not like Minato's soul isn't just sitting there. Maybe he needs a body to enter the world through again.
It's because:

A:Erebus keeps coming back every year after Liz bodies it.
B:Erebus still is the big red button for Nyx, as long as he has a tie to the collective unconscious, if someone's not there to smack Erebus' hand off the button, Nyx's shit is going to go down.
 
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Ah okay
So in conclusion

Blue haired man is boned
How in the world can you shut down everyone's collective unconscious without there being some kind of-

Hold on...."collective unconscious"?
Think Erebus has connections with the TV world?
 
I don't think there's TOO much of a problem getting Minato/Makoto(wasn't this his name in he movies) back. As anyone who's played P1 or P2 knows, the game's canon can sometimes be well...malleable. I'm not saying that's a BAD thing mind you, but they've played around with it before.
 
Clawsome Bombs said:
Ah okay
So in conclusion

Blue haired man is boned
How in the world can you shut down everyone's collective unconscious without there being some kind of-

Hold on...."collective unconscious"?
Think Erebus has connections with the TV world?
Yeah man.

Kind of what an "overarching theme" is.

I know that it's weird, because we're not used to people caring enough their game series' narrative to do that.

Persona 1 had a similar theme, and hell, Persona 2 was the prototype to 4 in that sense, all that Inaba TV shit? Just Joker and Rumors.
 
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