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Showing Opponent's Team in QuickMatch

IsaVulpes

IsaVulpes

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Ms. Fortune Filia Double
Right now, Quickmatch is rather annoying to play - if you don't know what your opponent has picked, you WILL get hit the first time he calls his Bella with DDrop / Val with Throw vs c.MK / Squigly with 6HP vs c.HP / etc.

My suggestion would be to simply have a say 5 second period during Stage Select where you can't actually select Stage yet, but your opponent's team is visibe to you (so you can't counterpick or something as Char Select is over, but you still have the time to check out your opponent's team and react accordingly)
 
It'd probably look ugly, but considering you'd just be using a text string for this you might also be able to just superimpose it over the loading screen without too much of a performance hit. You don't want to stall the player from the actual gameplay any longer than necessary.
 
Vadsamoht said:
It'd probably look ugly, but considering you'd just be using a text string for this you might also be able to just superimpose it over the loading screen without too much of a performance hit. You don't want to stall the player from the actual gameplay any longer than necessary.
It would have to show their complete team with assist immediately, instead of when each character portrait appears, since sometimes the match loads before going through all the portraits.
 
I like this idea.
Vadsamoht said:
It'd probably look ugly, but considering you'd just be using a text string for this you might also be able to just superimpose it over the loading screen without too much of a performance hit. You don't want to stall the player from the actual gameplay any longer than necessary.
Do you mean just show the texts of names and assists so that the player can easily react? If so, it should stay up the whole time during stage select, but I think that defeats a major purpose of quickmatch.
 
Broseidon Rex said:
It would have to show their complete team with assist immediately, instead of when each character portrait appears, since sometimes the match loads before going through all the portraits.
I was thinking more of just having a box on each side of the screen that lists all chars/assists in text regardless of what the loading image is.
 
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IsaVulpes said:
Right now, Quickmatch is rather annoying to play - if you don't know what your opponent has picked, you WILL get hit the first time he calls his Bella with DDrop / Val with Throw vs c.MK / Squigly with 6HP vs c.HP / etc.

My suggestion would be to simply have a say 5 second period during Stage Select where you can't actually select Stage yet, but your opponent's team is visibe to you (so you can't counterpick or something as Char Select is over, but you still have the time to check out your opponent's team and react accordingly)

That would be nice.

Also I would like Blind Pick in lobbies because people always wait for you to pick so they can counterpick, its annoying.
 
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I can see how this would be annoying but I honestly don't care enough about Quick Match to ask anybody to put time into fixing this.

Dagwood said:
That would be nice.

Also I would like Blind Pick in lobbies because people always wait for you to pick so they can counterpick, its annoying.

You can always go back to character select after the first game if you want and counter their counterpick. Or, you know, just play the match and learn from it.
 
Dagwood said:
That would be nice.

Also I would like Blind Pick in lobbies because people always wait for you to pick so they can counterpick, its annoying.

Just play the same two characters forever.
 
Or just implement a vs. screen, though I'm not sure how viable that is re: memory issues on consoles

PC Master Race
 
This is the #1 thing I want. I hate going into a match not knowing what team and assists the other person is running. It's good to know what kind of mixups and resets they're capable of before the match rather than when it's too late.
 
Fine with either way after my experience of quick matches. Whatever element of surprise the opponent may or may not have won't last long to make a difference to influence the match outcome. The opponent is in the same boat as well since they have to deal with whatever surprises you might have so to me it washes out. I don't mind a little preview after character select, but I wouldn't care if it was still omitted as well.
 
You get a hit for free. If you think that's not a "difference to influence the match outcome", then.. oh well.
And no, the opponent is not in the same boat if I don't pick gimmicky assists / play characters with options like that, .. which I don't. Let alone Solo Players~
 
i agree @IsaVulpes

usually i lose in QM either cause...... i don't know what to expect from their assist or point or cause i generally got outplayed. when its the former it usually cause some assist i have NO idea which type so if its a peacock i'm either guessing its a rush punch or beat extend which causes me to hesitate and there you go peacock is full screen and having fun :| then when i finally get close. no assist maybe hornet bomber comes out...cool then a freaking beat extend comes out when i expect a flat out rush punch....it throws me off to say the least
 
You know I will say last night I saw my opponent call Fukua as an assist and I held downback on reaction. He was using Inevitable Snuggle as his assist and I got grabbed. I'm like "the fuck? you picked that as your assist? y" and then didn't get hit by it again, but I probably could have lost the game for that. The part about this I don't like is that I saw my opponent calling his assist and I reacted to it, and because I reacted I got hit. That's irritating.

On the other hand, though, what about my gimmicks
 
The opponent is in the same boat by default regardless on what you picked if you went non-solo at the starting bout. They don't know that you went gimmicky or not until you activate your assist and vice versa. If you want to pick the optimal assists that everyone knows about related to your character [pillar, Updo, butt, etc] then you take reliability, but take being predictable too.

As a largely solo player myself you don't expect to deliver any element of surprise outside of your movelist. You trade off an assist for being a tank so your as predictable as you can be from the starting gate. Bringing up the solo was irrelevant since they come with their own risks/benefits anyway without considering mystery assists.

The element of surprise (if there was any to begin with) wears off quick the moment you or your opponent hits the assist command. By "free hit" I'm assuming you play without getting a feel for your opponent first to bait responses?

Playing aggro at the beginning certainly has the advantage to overwhelm an unprepared opponent or to just simply force them on the defending end, but tradeoff like you pointed out [in at least quick match] is that your prone to any surprise assists that your not prepared for. I don't typically go guns blazing when the match starts without knowing what my opponent has and what they do with them and adjust accordingly.

In any case, I'm fine with your proposal but not gonna feel bad if it never happens either. I'll adjust accordingly either way like every other thing related to this game. Probably due to the combination of me having a different playstyle, having the fortune of not running into too many random gimmick assists, and simply playing way more local matches then quick.
 
K but this is sort of a game where if you get one hit you can easily convert it into a bunch more hits and kill their entire team, so getting one hit off a gimmick gives you a huge advantage. You're downplaying that whole deal something fierce
 
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I know the nature of this game about how a hit confirm can lead into a combo which can lead into an ambiguous reset opportunity which would either kill a teammate or severely injure a solo. I've experienced both sides of this. I especially have to play more cautious since solo generally can't afford numerous mistakes.

That is why I'm saying that if your spooked out about a potential gimmick assist to ruin your day during a quick match then find out what the assist is without being in the receiving end if possible and so far I had relative success with this. For example if my solo Filia is pressuring a point Valentine, but anchor Parasoul is not coming in to Pillar me out of the way then I can deduce two possibilities

A) opponent is a beginner that still hasn't learned the merits of utilizing assists

Or

B) the opponent is either being a sneaky devil/or is simply has a more unique playstyle revolving around a different assist.

I again would adjust accordingly based on the hypothesis. The moment the mystery assist comes out whatever doubts I would have would be clear and I would be ready. Not to mention if it's in fact a gimmick assist it can be turned around to work against them since they sacrificed constant reliability for a single surprise curveball.
 
My face when I can't see my enemies team and assist
134995460930.gif
 
Number 13 said:
I know the nature of this game about how a hit confirm can lead into a combo which can lead into an ambiguous reset opportunity which would either kill a teammate or severely injure a solo. I've experienced both sides of this. That is why I'm saying that if your spooked out about a potential gimmick assist to ruin your day during a quick match then find out what the assist is without being in the receiving end if possible and so far I had relative success with this. For example if my solo Filia is pressuring a point Valentine, but anchor Parasoul is not coming in to Pillar me out of the way then I can deduce two possibilities

A) opponent is a beginner that still hasn't learned the merits of utilizing assists

Or

B) the opponent is either being a sneaky devil/or is simply has a more unique playstyle revolving around a different assist.

I again would adjust accordingly based on the hypothesis. The moment the mystery assist comes out whatever doubts I would have would be clear and I would be ready. Not to mention if it's in fact a gimmick assist it can be turned around to work against them since they sacrificed constant reliability for a single surprise curveball.
K nice work you deduced they had a gimmick assist and you held upback when they called it

Wait oh no the gimmick was c.MK assist and you got hit for upbacking

What are you even talking about
 
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If they had Cr.mk as an assist choice then like I said "adjust accordingly" and abuse the fact that they decided to throw a cute curveball instead of the usual suspect assists with the pros/cons that they all inherent. Not to mention if the baiting the assist properly works out the Hail Mary attempt of a surprise hit confirm fails and you can abuse the hell out of them for the rest of the match because he/she ditched the more problematic assist choices.

Your talking about how "what if this surprise assist lands?" which can happen even if your taking the extra precautions, but that can also not happen. Just like any opponent assist that you had prior knowledge of, but you still get hit-confirmed either due to reckless rushing or being set up to lockdown pressure.

I'm not downplaying the dangers that a mystery assist can have and heck I would fear those more then the usual optimal assist choices I come across simply because I'm at least prepared for them, but I'm simply recognizing that those mystery assists are double edged swords if your aware/lucky enough and things can easily turn around quickly due to bad assist pick choices just for the sake of an initial surprise which has no guarantee to pay off anyway.

Honestly I don't give a fuck either way anyway since this is purely a quick match related issue. If it gets changed so no more spooky assists due to popular demand then I'm ok with I'm not gonna bitch either way. Also I like your BB :)

- gets ready for class
 
View619 said:
Players can keep their quick match gimmicks. Lobby sets are what matter.
Or locals if possible. Too bad lobbies are still a PC exclusive feature for now.
 
Locals > Lobby/Unranked >>> Quick Match

There is so much more that you can learn from a structured set than a quick match, and it's always better when you don't have to worry about lag. Additional bonus to locals for being able to talk out different aspects of the match in real-time.
 
I like Quick Match because it's like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get. I just roll with the punches....or just get punched in the face, but it's all good cause it's all fun.
 
Having teams and assists visible during stage select is A-OK with me, in both QM and lobbies.

I can't stand that picks aren't blind in lobbies, but being able to see what you're up against after both players make their picks is more than welcome. Seems like the best compromise.
 
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MysteriousJ said:
What do you guys think of this?



For just quick match, I don't really think it matters (I mean, who takes quick match seriously), but I think this would be a beneficial thing overall.
Too bad Otter is awful and any addition to the HUD is not happening.
 
It's just silly to me that players can have their first assist call be a mixup in literally the singular setting of your first game against someone in Quick Match, as after that the player can recognize your name/team and know what's up. I understand QM isn't the same as a local or tourney setting, unorthodox plays or gimmicks work better in QM because of the one off nature of it. I think it's silly that there is a system mechanic (not sure what else to call it, system quirk?) that promotes this and doesn't keep universality between local/lobby/QM.

This is all assuming LabZero has the ability to add a fix for this, if there is a limitation, then that's just the way it is.
 
xaqwais said:
It's just silly to me that players can have their first assist call be a mixup in literally the singular setting of your first game against someone in Quick Match, as after that the player can recognize your name/team and know what's up. I understand QM isn't the same as a local or tourney setting, unorthodox plays or gimmicks work better in QM because of the one off nature of it. I think it's silly that there is a system mechanic (not sure what else to call it, system quirk?) that promotes this and doesn't keep universality between local/lobby/QM.

This is all assuming LabZero has the ability to add a fix for this, if there is a limitation, then that's just the way it is.
Sorta upset the link didn't go to the Bruce Hornsby version of the song
 
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Surely we don't want to deprive quick match of the joys of a well-timed yet unexpected taunt assist.
 
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What quickmatches are you guys playing where either of these isn't true:

1) Your opponent is one of the few dozen people that grinds SG and you know the teams he runs
2) The dude just bought it on a Steam/console sale, you got this
 
mayne what's being said is this. if you got some dude you NEVER seen before and he picks something...you ain't gonna know like for instance someone (i swear to god this happened to me) picked bella for assist right? so i'm thinking oh.... Cerecopter or LNL.....i was goddamn wrong what i got was a poke in the ass from kanchou......it made me laugh but i was like dafuq? another one was freak diamond drop(who does this!?!)
 
Number 13 said:
The element of surprise (if there was any to begin with) wears off quick the moment you or your opponent hits the assist command. By "free hit" I'm assuming you play without getting a feel for your opponent first to bait responses?
- My opponent runs Filia/Squigly/BBand. Calls BBand a bunch, it's Brass. So far so good, we just play a bit. Then Filia has me in blockstun (shit happens), and I see Squigly come in. Crouchblock, because it's most likely going to be c.HP or DnB, and watching out for Filia doing Ringlet Fake into silly overhead stuff. Then I get hit, because his Squigly was using 6HP assist.
- My opponent runs Val/Parasoul. I try to feel him out whether he's gonna recklessly call Pillar at all the spots - it doesn't happen, woo he's not that easy to bait! I do a surprise dashin c.MK, land a hit, then expect him to call assist as his defence option on my reset and back off as another bait; planning to punish his inevitable Pillar call with a dashin+assistcall on my own. I see Parasoul come in, read correctly! Do my dash back in (being at a range where Pillar is just gonna whiff) + assistcall, get hit by Tearshot in the face, my assist looks silly and I get happy birthday'd by Val, who proceeds to Doublesnap me and kills my Parasoul in the corner with Val+Tearshot incoming mixup.
- My opponent runs Parasoul/Double. I start the round with backdash, he starts the round with dashjump + Double call. I countercall with my Fukua Drill and am standblocking so I can absolute guard + be ready to PBGC Pillar after the Butt lockdown. Get hit low by Cilia Slide, die.
- My opponent has Fortune/Bella/Double, calls Butt a bunch, gets me to block, calls Bella first time, I upback cus I don't want any of that Diamond Drop garbage gimmick shit, EXCELLEBELLA
- Bonus points: I play the Filia/Squigly/BBand player from the first match again, see his Squigly come in, standblock AND GET HIT BECAUSE THIS TIME HE PICKED C.HP ASSIST

There are endless examples of this, all of them are retarded, and stating "You can just play around it" or "The advantage won't last long enough to make a difference on the outcome" is laughable.

Number 13 said:
I especially have to play more cautious since solo generally can't afford numerous mistakes.
Are we playing the same game?.?

View619 said:
Players can keep their quick match gimmicks. Lobby sets are what matter.
Of course Lobbies matter more than QuickMatch. FT1 is a silly format, due the nature of the Leaderboard Rankings simple massgaming is king, etc. Of course offline is even better.
That doesn't mean "Might as well add tripping in QuickMatch", though. We should still try to make it usable rather than just infuriating.
 
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Brawl is the highest selling fighting game of all time, if we add in tripping maybe we can draw in that franchise money.

I'm just saying we shouldn't rule it out and it would be a big val nerf.
 
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