Skull Lore Theories: How Canopy Kingdom survived 9+ months of surrounding nations attacking them

[FunkyHellboy]

Here is a question how did the Canopy Kingdom survive all the surrounding nations forming up to attack them after Nancy's wish. Because in canon ALL Skullheart wishes, (that have nothing to do with becoming the Skullgirl, because the Skullheart already has a rule-set on how you become it, so wishing to become it just means no other wishers were granted and it's rule-set on how pure the wish was goes into play), twisted by the heart or not are granted immediately, (see Filia's ending).

So by canon logic all the countries would feel the immediate need to attack the kingdom.
And the time-frame of at least 9 months or more had to occur between the wish and Nancy Skullgirl, (start of war end of war) because she had to have gotten pregnant during the Skullgirl transformation process.
That means the least amount of time of the war would have been getting pregnant after wishing on the SH on the same day, then right after giving birth to Umbrella immediately she would become the Skullgirl.

So given that time frame and multiple surrounding countries attacking all at the same time on the Kingdom I would think that it would be nei impossible for Canopy to stll exist!

BUT!
I do have one theory on how it could have survived.
What if during that time frame knowing the oncoming threat is when the Canopy government turned to drastic measures.
What if during that tie frame they created the living weapons! (The creation of which is theorized here!)

It makes too much sense, think about it, their power would even out the playing field long enough for SG Nancy to take the charge.
And in Cerebella's story her living weapon of Vice Versa was passed down to her by her parents that are dead! (Dead by fighting in the war!) and that would explain the absence of her parents and why she of all people outside of the military would have such a dangerous weapon.

(ps. this theory was made on Thursday night streaming event. Theory Thursdays!)

 

[BallotBoxer]

I think your premise is muddled by some tangled facts. For instance, you can start by throwing out the 9 months deadline because Umbrella was around 3 when her mom fully turned into the Skullgirl.

The Grand War
Facts from the canon info thread:

• Canopy Kingdom vs. Chess Kingdom vs. Gigan Nation
• Lasted about a decade or so
• The small countries and territories between the three warring nations, wrecked by the conflict, would later become called No Man's Land
• Patricia and Marie knew each other before the war hit their home, and became close due to both having to survive after the war as orphans.

To get a sense of time, Peacock = 6, Parasoul = 18, Umbrella = 3 when Queen Nancy Renoir fully transformed into a Skullgirl and shifted the war's focus to all three nations stopping her. One might presume the Grand War concluded with the appearance of the Skullgirl. So if it ended seven years ago, and started ten years before that, then the Grand War began somewhere around a couple years before Squigly died and Selene Contiello became a Skullgirl.

Gigan, Chess, and Canopy all formed a hasty alliance to take down the Skullgirl threatening the world. So Canopy wouldn't need to "survive" the attack since it was doing part of the attacking.

Queen Nancy Renoir, Skullgirl
Wished for peace. Presumedly long enough into the Grand War, after some amount of devastation, to convince her to make the wish. According to Double, she had been regularly visiting the Grand Cathedral to pray.

A tidbit in the canon thread sheds light on where Queen Renoir finished turning into a Skullgirl:

Squigly was not resurrected during Queen Renoir's transformation into a Skullgirl, as the Queen was currently in another land at the time and her powers did not extend back to the Canopy Kingdom's dead-and-buried.

The Queen wasn't in Canopy Kingdom. Given the level of ruin to No Man's Land, I'm guessing she was there when she fully became the Skullgirl and where all there countries battled to subdue her.

Living Weapons of War
Possible, but Synthetic Parasites would more plausible as questionable experimental weapons. As the canon info thread mentions:

Like in our WWII, there were many experimental weapons created during the Grand War

Most Living Weapons have been portrayed as heirlooms while Sythetic Parasites seem like a recent development.

 

[FunkyHellboy]

I think your premise is muddled by some tangled facts. For instance, you can start by throwing out the 9 months deadline because Umbrella was around 3 when her mom fully turned into the Skullgirl.

The Grand War
Facts from the canon info thread:

• Canopy Kingdom vs. Chess Kingdom vs. Gigan Nation
• Lasted about a decade or so
• The small countries and territories between the three warring nations, wrecked by the conflict, would later become called No Man's Land
• Patricia and Marie knew each other before the war hit their home, and became close due to both having to survive after the war as orphans.

To get a sense of time, Peacock = 6, Parasoul = 18, Umbrella = 3 when Queen Nancy Renoir fully transformed into a Skullgirl and shifted the war's focus to all three nations stopping her. One might presume the Grand War concluded with the appearance of the Skullgirl. So if it ended seven years ago, and started ten years before that, then the Grand War began somewhere around a couple years before Squigly died and Selene Contiello became a Skullgirl.

Gigan, Chess, and Canopy all formed a hasty alliance to take down the Skullgirl threatening the world. So Canopy wouldn't need to "survive" the attack since it was doing part of the attacking.

Queen Nancy Renoir, Skullgirl
Wished for peace. Presumedly long enough into the Grand War, after some amount of devastation, to convince her to make the wish. According to Double, she had been regularly visiting the Grand Cathedral to pray.

A tidbit in the canon thread sheds light on where Queen Renoir finished turning into a Skullgirl:

The Queen wasn't in Canopy Kingdom. Given the level of ruin to No Man's Land, I'm guessing she was there when she fully became the Skullgirl and where all there countries battled to subdue her.

Living Weapons of War
Possible, but Synthetic Parasites would more plausible as questionable experimental weapons. As the canon info thread mentions:

Most Living Weapons have been portrayed as heirlooms while Sythetic Parasites seem like a recent development.

Well with the umbrella age factor it was at the least 9 months was the time she must have made the wish.
Also the fact that there seems to be more living weapons than synthetic in my opinion lead to synthetics being discovered and researched enough for it's first test is more around the area of Peacock being the first trial run.
Living weapons could have been invented during the war and perfected along the way, (Living weapons with more free will like Hugren being a alpha test, Vice Versa being a beta test with some will, and finally Krieg being the perfected living weapon with zero free will or at least no way to use or express it.) and while it is being touched up they would have went into the idea of synthetics.

 

[BallotBoxer]

Well I can't contest the age of Living Weapons because little to no information is given about them. But unlike synthetic parasites, they seem older because they aren't described as being intentionally designed for their current owners (e.g. it is unknown how Cerebella got Vice-Versa). The canon info thread tells more:

- Living Weapons are forged by specialist weaponsmiths, some of whom can gain pretty legendary statuses.
- A Living Weapon can only be wielded by certain people
- A remote parasite needs a part of the host body in order to be bound to the host
- Parasites and living weapons can having different effects on the people who use them.
- Living weapons don’t age but does adjust to the size of the person. Can be passed on from generations if maintained, like a real-life sword for example

I like the idea of most Living Weapons being ancient heirlooms. I disagree with the wartime development angle because they are so rare and particular. Not everyone can use them and each person produces a different result. The military has no use for limited quantity and unpredictable specialist weapons.

Well with the umbrella age factor it was at the least 9 months was the time she must have made the wish.

What do you mean exactly? Umbrella had to be born before the Queen could make the wish?

In Parasoul's story mode, from what Double describes, Queen Renoir was already transforming into a Skullgirl while pregnant with Umbrella.

Double: As you suspected, as your mother carried your sister as she also carried the Skull Heart.
Double: Darling Umbrella is already attuned to the Skull Heart's power, thus she will forge a stronger and more terrifying bond than even that of your mother.
Parasoul: So... it's true. But I won't allow that to happen!​

It seems when one makes a wish, the Skull Heart takes the wisher as a host. So the wish had to take place some time in the four years between Skullgirl Selene Contiello's defeat and Umbrella's birthday.

 

[FunkyHellboy]

Well I can't contest the age of Living Weapons because little to no information is given about them. But unlike synthetic parasites, they seem older because they aren't described as being intentionally designed for their current owners (e.g. it is unknown how Cerebella got Vice-Versa). The canon info thread tells more:



I like the idea of most Living Weapons being ancient heirlooms. I disagree with the wartime development angle because they are so rare and particular. Not everyone can use them and each person produces a different result. The military has no use for limited quantity and unpredictable specialist weapons.

Well I can't contest the age of Living Weapons because little to no information is given about them. But unlike synthetic parasites, they seem older because they aren't described as being intentionally designed for their current owners (e.g. it is unknown how Cerebella got Vice-Versa). The canon info thread tells more:



I like the idea of most Living Weapons being ancient heirlooms. I disagree with the wartime development angle because they are so rare and particular. Not everyone can use them and each person produces a different result. The military has no use for limited quantity and unpredictable specialist weapons.



What do you mean exactly? Umbrella had to be born before the Queen could make the wish?

In Parasoul's story mode, from what Double describes, Queen Renoir was already transforming into a Skullgirl while pregnant with Umbrella.

Double: As you suspected, as your mother carried your sister as she also carried the Skull Heart.
Double: Darling Umbrella is already attuned to the Skull Heart's power, thus she will forge a stronger and more terrifying bond than even that of your mother.
Parasoul: So... it's true. But I won't allow that to happen!​

It seems when one makes a wish, the Skull Heart takes the wisher as a host. So the wish had to take place some time in the four years between Skullgirl Selene Contiello's defeat and Umbrella's birthday.

What I meant by it is that I agree with you! I meant that Umbrella's conception added 9 months in the war after the wish as in canon she was pregnant with her while turning into the skullgirl

 

[Chrono_Tata]

Yeah, I think it seems to be implied by what has previously been said that Living Weapons have been around for a while and have been passed as heirlooms, but it is true that the revealed information so far doesn't really specify how long they have been around.

However, I think the fact that the Canopy Kingdom is called the Canopy Kingdom seem to indicate that Living Weapons have been around for a while. We can take from the story that the 4 umbrella weapons are immensely powerful. Since we know that Living Weapons can only be used by certain people and that they are passed down as heirlooms, we can assume that the ability to wield certain Living Weapons is at least partly inherited genetically. If that's the case, the Renoir family are the only people who are able to wield them.

So, I feel it is a bit unlikely that the 4 umbrellas have been created only recently just to fit in with the Canopy Kingdom's motif, and it's more likely that the Canopy Kingdom's umbrella motif was created due to the fact that the the umbrellas are the symbol of the Renoir royal family, implying that the family has wielded the umbrellas for generations and that has been one of the main reasons why they possess so much power that they could take and maintain power over the Canopy Kingdom.

Also, take into account that, if Living Weapons were created during the Grand War, why would someone create the umbrellas so they can only be used by the royal family (which as far as we know at that time consisted of a king, a queen and 2 little girls)? If they were specifically created for the War it seems more likely that they would have been created to be wielded by experienced soldiers, since I doubt they would have wanted to put members of the royal family into the front line. I think it is more likely that the Renoirs have been a warrior clan who have wielded the umbrella Living Weapons for much longer than the Grand War has been fought.

 

[Chrono_Tata]

Yeah, I think it seems to be implied by what has previously been said that Living Weapons have been around for a while and have been passed as heirlooms, but it is true that the revealed information so far doesn't really specify how long they have been around.

However, I think the fact that the Canopy Kingdom is called the Canopy Kingdom seem to indicate that Living Weapons have been around for a while. We can take from the story that the 4 umbrella weapons are immensely powerful. Since we know that Living Weapons can only be used by certain people and that they are passed down as heirlooms, we can assume that the ability to wield certain Living Weapons is at least partly inherited genetically. If that's the case, the Renoir family are the only people who are able to wield them.

So, I feel it is a bit unlikely that the 4 umbrellas have been created only recently just to fit in with the Canopy Kingdom's motif, and it's more likely that the Canopy Kingdom's umbrella motif was created due to the fact that the the umbrellas are the symbol of the Renoir royal family, implying that the family has wielded the umbrellas for generations and that has been one of the main reasons why they possess so much power that they could take and maintain power over the Canopy Kingdom.

Also, take into account that, if Living Weapons were created during the Grand War, why would someone create the umbrellas so they can only be used by the royal family (which as far as we know at that time consisted of a king, a queen and 2 little girls)? If they were specifically created for the War it seems more likely that they would have been created to be wielded by experienced soldiers, since I doubt they would have wanted to put members of the royal family into the front line. I think it is more likely that the Renoirs have been a warrior clan who have wielded the umbrella Living Weapons for much longer than the Grand War has been fought.

 

[FunkyHellboy]

Yeah, I think it seems to be implied by what has previously been said that Living Weapons have been around for a while and have been passed as heirlooms, but it is true that the revealed information so far doesn't really specify how long they have been around.

However, I think the fact that the Canopy Kingdom is called the Canopy Kingdom seem to indicate that Living Weapons have been around for a while. We can take from the story that the 4 umbrella weapons are immensely powerful. Since we know that Living Weapons can only be used by certain people and that they are passed down as heirlooms, we can assume that the ability to wield certain Living Weapons is at least partly inherited genetically. If that's the case, the Renoir family are the only people who are able to wield them.

So, I feel it is a bit unlikely that the 4 umbrellas have been created only recently just to fit in with the Canopy Kingdom's motif, and it's more likely that the Canopy Kingdom's umbrella motif was created due to the fact that the the umbrellas are the symbol of the Renoir royal family, implying that the family has wielded the umbrellas for generations and that has been one of the main reasons why they possess so much power that they could take and maintain power over the Canopy Kingdom.

Also, take into account that, if Living Weapons were created during the Grand War, why would someone create the umbrellas so they can only be used by the royal family (which as far as we know at that time consisted of a king, a queen and 2 little girls)? If they were specifically created for the War it seems more likely that they would have been created to be wielded by experienced soldiers, since I doubt they would have wanted to put members of the royal family into the front line. I think it is more likely that the Renoirs have been a warrior clan who have wielded the umbrella Living Weapons for much longer than the Grand War has been fought.

well the members of the royal family have been on the front line (see Queen Nancy being in the No-Man's zone and Parasoul's Black egrets) It also could be that the umbrella type parasites that would be passed down the royal family, would be some of the parasites used in making the living weapons. Living weapons being passed down as heirlooms are practically the same as when a parasite is passed down and the parasite can choose who they give their power to. (which explains why they can only be used by certain people and are passed down)

ps: I think you accidentally double posted.

 

[Chrono_Tata]

well the members of the royal family have been on the front line (see Queen Nancy being in the No-Man's zone and Parasoul's Black egrets) It also could be that the umbrella type parasites that would be passed down the royal family, would be some of the parasites used in making the living weapons. Living weapons being passed down as heirlooms are practically the same as when a parasite is passed down and the parasite can choose who they give their power to. (which explains why they can only be used by certain people and are passed down)

ps: I think you accidentally double posted.

Whoops. Yeah when I posted that Skullheart was kinda acting up and then went down afterwards, so I didn't even know if the post went through. I guess it did... twice.

But, yep, I meant that the fact that King Renoir was active on the battlefield indicated to me that they are a warrior clan who are comfortable with battle, rather than leading from behind in relative safety. Unless the Renoirs previously had possessed power such as the umbrella Living Weapons prior to the Grand War, I doubt they would have suddenly decided to join the war after acquiring the Living Weapons recently.

Having the umbrellas been previously Parasites would be interesting and does tie in with the lore that Parasites and Living Weapons have common origins, although that would mean that the Parasites would have to removed from the previous hosts, who would probably be Renoir family members, which would kill them in the process. I don't think even King Renoir would have been that ruthless.

Either that or the Parasites were just sitting around in hibernation mode, but it wouldn't make a lot of sense that they would have just left those powerful Parasites lying around during wartime.

 

[FunkyHellboy]

Whoops. Yeah when I posted that Skullheart was kinda acting up and then went down afterwards, so I didn't even know if the post went through. I guess it did... twice.

But, yep, I meant that the fact that King Renoir was active on the battlefield indicated to me that they are a warrior clan who are comfortable with battle, rather than leading from behind in relative safety. Unless the Renoirs previously had possessed power such as the umbrella Living Weapons prior to the Grand War, I doubt they would have suddenly decided to join the war after acquiring the Living Weapons recently.

Having the umbrellas been previously Parasites would be interesting and does tie in with the lore that Parasites and Living Weapons have common origins, although that would mean that the Parasites would have to removed from the previous hosts, who would probably be Renoir family members, which would kill them in the process. I don't think even King Renoir would have been that ruthless.

Either that or the Parasites were just sitting around in hibernation mode, but it wouldn't make a lot of sense that they would have just left those powerful Parasites lying around during wartime.

Well with the umbrella parasites and hosts dieing from the process is a good rebuttle......or there this another answer in canon that the labs have found a way to remove a parasite, (but with some damage to the host)
(oh and the living weapons that umbrella and Parasoul have could have been passed down from grandparents, who definatly would have found in the war, or already would have died and their parasites would have been in hibernation.)
So my proof that they have a way to remove a parasite is with the two characters of King Renoir and Black Dahlia

So with King Renoir in his Concept art he is shown to look far from the average human, well ar from adverage after the parasite removal process.

Before

After

as you see the in the second picture he still is alive and now has his lving weapon, but is severely maimed because of the process (Mainly in the face.)

Now we get to Black Dahlia who always wheres a viel to cover her face, but wy would she do that it is because she removed her parasite Samson, (who then was passed down to her protege Filia (could be a grand mother or mother, or just a mentor)
Now I know what you are thinking, wait how could the Mafia get the technology of the Labs? Well in a past Theory of mine it is explained HERE!
Now this theory does explain why Black Dahlia does cover her face, (because the process has maimed her) but some of the lingering effects of Samsom still in her face though. As we see below....
Samson's Eyes

Black Dalhia's eyes

Thank you for the reply to the thread man!
Without it I wouldn't have thought to drudge this up because it really explains A LOT of things.

 

[Skittylover228]

But samson is a natrul parasite that if removed from the host the host dies you mean synthetic paracites those are completly man made and the labs where created during the war

 

[FunkyHellboy]

But samson is a natrul parasite that if removed from the host the host dies you mean synthetic paracites those are completly man made and the labs where created during the war

in the quote above now bolded

Well with the umbrella parasites and hosts dieing from the process is a good rebuttle......or there this another answer in canon that the labs have found a way to remove a parasite, (but with some damage to the host)
(oh and the living weapons that umbrella and Parasoul have could have been passed down from grandparents, who definatly would have found in the war, or already would have died and their parasites would have been in hibernation.)
So my proof that they have a way to remove a parasite is with the two characters of King Renoir and Black Dahlia

Well with the umbrella parasites and hosts dieing from the process is a good rebuttle......or there this another answer in canon that the labs have found a way to remove a parasite, (but with some damage to the host)

So that has already been answered before the question popped up

 

[Skittylover228]

in the quote above now bolded


Well with the umbrella parasites and hosts dieing from the process is a good rebuttle......or there this another answer in canon that the labs have found a way to remove a parasite, (but with some damage to the host)

So that has already been answered before the question popped up

But synthetic parasites are the only removable ones samson is millions of years old

 

[FunkyHellboy]

But synthetic parasites are the only removable ones samson is millions of years old

.....In canon parasites like Samson have removed themselves multiple times and moved host to host, killing their host. (We even see the process in Squigly's story ex: Leviathan going into her head)
So why is it a stretch that the government that makes synthetic parasites, living weapons, can find a way although crude and drastic to remove a parasite without killing the host?

 

[Muro]

Now we get to Black Dahlia who always wheres a viel to cover her face, but wy would she do that it is because she removed her parasite Samson

Whoa there. That sure came out of nowhere.

Based on what we know and what was said by official sources, Dahlia has nothing to do with Samson. Nothing in-game nor in Alex' comments ever implied any connection. The name is similar to Samson's ex-host Delilah, yes, but it's a pure coincidence as they both refer to well-defined and unrelated characters/people (Delilah and Black Dahlia).

Now, what has been said in Skype talks with Ahad is that Black Dahlia is the first ASG, altered purely mechanically alike Big Band before the lab even started works on synthetic parasites. Nothing at all implied any connection with parasites.

In Eliza's story mode, Samson refers to Eliza by her old name (Neferu), says Delilah is dead and generally seems to be seeing Eliza for the first time in ages. Delilah appears to be quite literally ancient history. Works well with Delilah's ancient looking armor (design of which brings ancient Rome/Greece to mind). Doesn't connect with Black Dahlia being 50-60 years old.

All that said, I like a good concise fan theory that works well within the canon world. This however feels more like bending/disregarding existing lore to create your own story, with blackjack and hookers. It's assuming a whole lot of things that were never implied within nor outside of the game (Black Dahlia having a parasite + and later having it removed, removing a parasite being possible without killing the host, Samson being wrong about his past host being dead, Delilah being much more recent history than dialogue/aesthetics suggest), all to create a connection between two unrelated characters, to later use it as support for a theory with even more uncalled for assumptions about the SG world.

I can't get behind this approach, my internal Occam's razor weeps.

 

[FunkyHellboy]

Whoa there. That sure came out of nowhere.

Based on what we know and what was said by official sources, Dahlia has nothing to do with Samson. Nothing in-game nor in Alex' comments ever implied any connection. The name is similar to Samson's ex-host Delilah, yes, but it's a pure coincidence as they both refer to well-defined and unrelated characters/people (Delilah and Black Dahlia).

Now, what has been said in Skype talks with Ahad is that Black Dahlia is the first ASG, altered purely mechanically alike Big Band before the lab even started works on synthetic parasites. Nothing at all implied any connection with parasites.

In Eliza's story mode, Samson refers to Eliza by her old name (Neferu), says Delilah is dead and generally seems to be seeing Eliza for the first time in ages. Delilah appears to be quite literally ancient history. Works well with Delilah's ancient looking armor (design of which brings ancient Rome/Greece to mind). Doesn't connect with Black Dahlia being 50-60 years old.

All that said, I like a good concise fan theory that works well within the canon world. This however feels more like bending/disregarding existing lore to create your own story, with blackjack and hookers. It's assuming a whole lot of things that were never implied within nor outside of the game (Black Dahlia having a parasite + and later having it removed, removing a parasite being possible without killing the host, Samson being wrong about his past host being dead, Delilah being much more recent history than dialogue/aesthetics suggest), all to create a connection between two unrelated characters, to later use it as support for a theory with even more uncalled for assumptions about the SG world.

I can't get behind this approach, my internal Occam's razor weeps.

Wait whoa I never said Dahlia is Delilah! Where did you get that from?
Delilah is DEAD. I don't know where you got your info on Delilah and Dahlia being related but it certainly wasn't here!

 

[FunkyHellboy]

Ok video is going to be up soon hopefully it explains many of the confusions people have had with this theory.

I still don't know how people thought Dahilia is Delilah!?
That just makes no sense

 

[Chrono_Tata]

Sorry it takes so long for me to reply to these messages but I've been way too busy lately lol.

Well with the umbrella parasites and hosts dieing from the process is a good rebuttle......or there this another answer in canon that the labs have found a way to remove a parasite, (but with some damage to the host)
(oh and the living weapons that umbrella and Parasoul have could have been passed down from grandparents, who definatly would have found in the war, or already would have died and their parasites would have been in hibernation.)
So my proof that they have a way to remove a parasite is with the two characters of King Renoir and Black Dahlia

So with King Renoir in his Concept art he is shown to look far from the average human, well ar from adverage after the parasite removal process.

<snip>

as you see the in the second picture he still is alive and now has his lving weapon, but is severely maimed because of the process (Mainly in the face.)

Now we get to Black Dahlia who always wheres a viel to cover her face, but wy would she do that it is because she removed her parasite Samson, (who then was passed down to her protege Filia (could be a grand mother or mother, or just a mentor)
Now I know what you are thinking, wait how could the Mafia get the technology of the Labs? Well in a past Theory of mine it is explained HERE!
Now this theory does explain why Black Dahlia does cover her face, (because the process has maimed her) but some of the lingering effects of Samsom still in her face though. As we see below....

<snip>

Thank you for the reply to the thread man!
Without it I wouldn't have thought to drudge this up because it really explains A LOT of things.

Yeah talking about this stuff is fun and useful because we all get to think about lore quite a bit!

Anyway, regarding the headless King Renior, the actual reason he's headless is related to the Black Tree, which is an obsolete piece of Skullgirls lore. The Black Tree was originally meant to be a powerful source of magical power which exists in the Canopy Kingdom. In order to defeat Skullgirl Nancy, the King took power from the Black Tree in order to gain enough power to defeat her, which blew off his head but didn't kill him. You can also see in old artwork of Parasoul, where her "hidden" eye actually has plants growing out of it, which is part of the Black Tree. As the current version of Skullgirls moved away from the magical theme of the older Skullgirls lore, the Black Tree became obsolete. As you can see in some in-game frames, Parasoul's hidden eye is actually quite normal. Alex also said that the headless King Renior is probably not valid anymore.

Having said that, there's no reason why Alex wouldn't keep the headless design and change the lore explaining it, so it's not impossible that what you say may be the case.

But yeah as Muro said, this theory requires quite a bit of speculations that are built on top of speculations (that someone has developed a way to remove Parasites without killing the host and speculations on King Renoir and Black Dahlia's maiming), so using Occam's Razor it is a hard theory for me to get behind, but I wouldn't say that it's impossible. :P It's definitely interesting to imagine that Living Weapons may be a recent development in the Skullgirls universe and there is no current confirmed lore that explicitly disproves it.

But synthetic parasites are the only removable ones samson is millions of years old

As far as we know, it is also not possible to remove Synthetic Parasites without killing the host either. The only Parasites that can detach from the host are Remote Parasites, and they still need to be attached to a body part of the host (Sagan and Annie's eye, Muse and Taliesin's hand, etc.).

 

[SmashBlade]

Wait whoa I never said Dahlia is Delilah! Where did you get that from?
Delilah is DEAD. I don't know where you got your info on Delilah and Dahlia being related but it certainly wasn't here!

You're kinda missing the point. There was no confusion between Delilah and Dahlia. Muro was merely stating that Black Dahlia and Samson have no affiliation with one another. He was saying that the closest thing that they have in common is that Dahlia's name is coincidentally similar to Delilah's. Basically highlighting holes in your theory.

 

[FunkyHellboy]

You're kinda missing the point. There was no confusion between Delilah and Dahlia. Muro was merely stating that Black Dahlia and Samson have no affiliation with one another. He was saying that the closest thing that they have in common is that Dahlia's name is coincidentally similar to Delilah's. Basically highlighting holes in your theory.

but the fact stands that no where in canon does it say that they have no past affiliation with each other (remember this is a theory it works around canon not against it), if that was the point of the post then it was arguing for arguing sake. or he just didn't read the posts or truly believes that Dahlia is Delilah, (which is strange, but I'm not hating on his headcanon).

 

[FunkyHellboy]

Sorry it takes so longfor me to reply to these messages but I've been way too busy lately lol.

this theory requires quite a bit of speculations that are built on top of speculations (that someone has developed a way to remove Parasites without killing the host and speculations on King Renoir and Black Dahlia's maiming),

As far as we know, it is also not possible to remove Synthetic Parasites without killing the host either. The only Parasites that can detach from the host are Remote Parasites, and they still need to be attached to a body part of the host (Sagan and Annie's eye, Muse and Taliesin's hand, etc.).

Yes it is built on speculation its a theory, not presented to be a fact but it does, (in conjunction with my other theories [something I believe I said at the beginning]) explain many of the unexplained. Before we get a definitive answer on the subject from canon of how exactly the Canopy Kingdom survived the Great War, all we have left is speculation.

Remember this is just a theory its not presented to be the be all and end all truth, (I could say that Annie beat the other Kingdoms and it could be a theory [ but I like mine to have a bases in canon]), the Skullgirls world is fairly under explored through theories and speculation is how we can create a sub-lore around the game that enhances a user's experience in the story if they choose to believe it.

Just a reminder to everyone this is my Skullgirls Lore Theories series not Facts

 

[North888]

Well, we have no idea who Samson was attached to before that dog...Though I assume from his crude manner he was more or less tossed about for a good while...

 

[Chrono_Tata]

Yes it is built on speculation its a theory, not presented to be a fact but it does, (in conjunction with my other theories [something I believe I said at the beginning]) explain many of the unexplained. Before we get a definitive answer on the subject from canon of how exactly the Canopy Kingdom survived the Great War, all we have left is speculation.

Remember this is just a theory its not presented to be the be all and end all truth, (I could say that Annie beat the other Kingdoms and it could be a theory [ but I like mine to have a bases in canon]), the Skullgirls world is fairly under explored through theories and speculation is how we can create a sub-lore around the game that enhances a user's experience in the story if they choose to believe it.

Just a reminder to everyone this is my Skullgirls Lore Theories series not Facts

I think you are misunderstanding what I was getting at. What I mean is that you can support a certain speculation directly with known facts, which would be the most plausible speculation. However, if you use that speculation to support another speculation, then the latter speculation becomes less plausible, which was what I was pointing out. As I mentioned, it doesn't go against any established lore so I don't really have anything against it.

However, when I said that it's not a theory I could get behind, I meant that I feel there are simpler explanations that doesn't require multiple levels of speculations to address the questions we are looking at. Using the Occam's Razor principle, I think a simpler explanation is more likely than a more complicated one. It isn't meant to say that your theory is bad, and actually it is an interesting theory that raises some interesting themes that haven't really been explored before.

 

[Muro]

or he just didn't read the posts or truly believes that Dahlia is Delilah, (which is strange, but I'm not hating on his headcanon).

Half of my post was about Dahlia =/= Delilah, yet you say I don't read posts.

As for where it came from, I specifically reread your post mentioning Dahlia a few times to figure out why did you even bring her up it the context of Samson or any parasites to begin with. I concluded it's about assuming Dahlia and Delilah are the same person, as that was the only connection I could see. But as you later revealed, the reasoning behind the Dahlia-Samson connection was mostly "it was never directly stated to NOT be there", which... probably leaves me even less convinced.

but the fact stands that no where in canon does it say that they have no past affiliation with each other (remember this is a theory it works around canon not against it)

Having a parasite removed without killing the host works pretty heavily against the canon, as so far that was never implied to be even a remote possibility.

Also, when Alex was describing Dahlia's past modifications, it was pretty much "mechanical augmentations like Big Band, no synthetic parasites". He did not mention normal parasites, yes, which I see more as a "because clearly there were none + the lab doesn't work on normal parasites so it wasn't necessary to mention" rather than "a-HA! So there must have been some!".

Basically both with removable parasites and Dahlia having a parasites in the past, I see it as assuming the lore creator is purposely lying about and/or hiding lore elements from us. I don't buy a speculation-heavy fan theory that makes such assumptions.

 

[North888]

Though this does bring up something I've been thinking about. So the labs created synthetic parasites...how? I wonder if they had a number of live parasites that either died or escaped in all the lab chaos. They used these parasites to design the first synthetic parasites and improve upon them from there. I don't know how this might actually connect to anyting, but there might just be some parasites in the lab's possession.

 

[FunkyHellboy]

Half of my post was about Dahlia =/= Delilah, yet you say I don't read posts.

As for where it came from, I specifically reread your post mentioning Dahlia a few times to figure out why did you even bring her up it the context of Samson or any parasites to begin with. I concluded it's about assuming Dahlia and Delilah are the same person, as that was the only connection I could see. But as you later revealed, the reasoning behind the Dahlia-Samson connection was mostly "it was never directly stated to NOT be there", which... probably leaves me even less convinced.


Having a parasite removed without killing the host works pretty heavily against the canon, as so far that was never implied to be even a remote possibility.

Also, when Alex was describing Dahlia's past modifications, it was pretty much "mechanical augmentations like Big Band, no synthetic parasites". He did not mention normal parasites, yes, which I see more as a "because clearly there were none + the lab doesn't work on normal parasites so it wasn't necessary to mention" rather than "a-HA! So there must have been some!".

Basically both with removable parasites and Dahlia having a parasites in the past, I see it as assuming the lore creator is purposely lying about and/or hiding lore elements from us. I don't buy a speculation-heavy fan theory that makes such assumptions.

Alright then I must have misread your text on the last post.
Sorry.

 

[FunkyHellboy]

I think you are misunderstanding what I was getting at. What I mean is that you can support a certain speculation directly with known facts, which would be the most plausible speculation. However, if you use that speculation to support another speculation, then the latter speculation becomes less plausible, which was what I was pointing out. As I mentioned, it doesn't go against any established lore so I don't really have anything against it.

However, when I said that it's not a theory I could get behind, I meant that I feel there are simpler explanations that doesn't require multiple levels of speculations to address the questions we are looking at. Using the Occam's Razor principle, I think a simpler explanation is more likely than a more complicated one. It isn't meant to say that your theory is bad, and actually it is an interesting theory that raises some interesting themes that haven't really been explored before.

Oh I didn't say that I thought you thought the theory was bad. I meant to say that the theory is using some of the other theories that I have to explain holes in them as the theories can work in tandem with each other. I was just trying to explain the reasoning behind the theory on top of theory. But, luckily there are still canon evidence towards this mainly the whole 3 years + 9 months at the least the grand war was going on. So that openness allowed for speculations on what happened, (I mean for all we know Dahlia was fighting in the war, got injured, then was rebuilt, but um.... still wouldn't explain the eyes.)
Now if we were using the Occam's Razor principle, (a problem-solving principle) the simplest solution to what really happened in the Grand War is......Nothing because the creators have not thought of it or explained it yet.

But this theory is to create something out of that nothing and build it from canon, and other theories that it can help and be helped by.