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Skullgirls PC Beta Updates Discussion

I'm reminded of Skarmand's video on countering the taunt version(Deathcrawl to the other side of Band).
 
zeknife said:
Death crawl beats ssj every time
That's mostly what I was wondering. I knew the air super would beat it out because its a hit grab.
 
Triblue said:
I'm reminded of Skarmand's video on countering the taunt version(Deathcrawl to the other side of Band).

Yeah, once he has charge, you start getting combos off [2HK] and [2/5HP] xx DC.
Yay.
 
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Mike_Z said:
For the people arguing whether parries ruined zoning in 3s...go fight Remy or Oro in SF Anniversary with parries turned off!
Projectiles in 3s are worse than they are in SF2, sure, but the problem with parries is this: the point of zoning is to make the other person HAVE TO MOVE or take damage. If they move they move where you want them to, otherwise they take damage which is a gain. Parries negate BOTH parts of that, so there is no way for a zoner to force you to jump or otherwise sacrifice your position. So yes, while parries may not have been 100% of the reason why zoning in 3s is crap, they are at least 90% of the reason. And that's why Big Band takes chip from parries.
Wanting them to parry your projectile is as much a thing as wanting them to move away from it. Fixed the non-parry issues with projectiles in 3S, they stop being bad from within halfscreen range.
 
Skarmand said:

Yeah, once he has charge, you start getting combos off [2HK] and [2/5HP] xx DC.
Yay.

To add to this for non-charged SSJs: If you do your anti-SSJ mash armor resets with [MK], if he doesn't have the taunt charge you can just release the MK during the super freeze (because of super hitstop, you'll still be armored for the first hit) and beat SSJ every time -> chain into a combo.
 
With some further testing, there doesn't seem to be much that Squigly can low profile under with Tremolo. The only useful one seems to be Napalm Shot.
 
Might be easier to super-cancel it to beat jump-ins on whiff
 
People were talking about tech chases in Skullgirls and I just wanna say that I wish it was a bigger part of this game , cause stuff like this in LB2 are really fun.

 
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PandaGirlBingo said:
People were talking about tech chases in Skullgirls and I just wanna say that I wish it was a bigger part of this game , cause stuff like this in LB2 are really fun.

I think I'd rather not let people do uncombo infinites from tech-chasing ala Smash Bros. Thanks.
 
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What about GG-esque air-tech? I've always wondered about those in SG.

Edit: LB2 is mad fun! Garou, SamSho2/4, VSav, CVS2 too... man.... I'm old.
 
In Skullgirls, you don't get knocked down from any air hit like you do in BB/GG. You just leave stun.

It's the reason why you can restand in SG.
 
Hype for new big update \o/
 
SonicFox5000 said:
I was wonsering about Big Bands parry.
Certain supers are post flash unblockable which means he has to preemptively parry,and big band is already destroyed by the free mixups put on him in the neutral game. So is it possible as a big band only thing that he can parry any super as long as he is at neutral even when the super is post flash blockable? It would make his defense stronger and random supers not as scary anymore against him.

I think that would be too good. However, I was in training mode in the beta and had an idea similar to this.

Parasoul's beta Silent Scope super is difficult to parry after the superflash because it hits almost immediately after the sepia effect. You have a very small window of a couple frames after the superflash ends to parry.

Because of this, I got to thinking: What if you could buffer parry during superflashes? This wouldn't affect point-blank reversal supers that use hitstop, but it would allow Big Band to more reliably parry supers like Argus Agony and Silent Scope that aren't post-flash unblockable, but occur so quickly after the superflash that parrying them is an unreliable tactic.
 
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Flotilla said:
I think that would be too good. However, I was in training mode in the beta and had an idea similar to this.

Parasoul's beta Silent Scope super is difficult to parry after the superflash because it hits almost immediately after the sepia effect. You have a very small window of a couple frames after the superflash ends to parry.

Because of this, I got to thinking: What if you could buffer parry during superflashes? This wouldn't affect point-blank reversal supers that use hitstop, but it would allow Big Band to more easily parry supers like Argus Agony and Silent Scope that aren't post-flash unblockable, but occur so quickly after the superflash that parrying them is an unreliable tactic.
IDK I mean it would encourage people to stop mashing against Big band and it would allow him to have a better way to not get chipped to death if he was stopping to bait super.
 
worldjem said:
I think I'd rather not let people do uncombo infinites from tech-chasing ala Smash Bros. Thanks.

...???

You do know that in most 2D fighters that let you tech roll you can block after, which makes the ending of your tech roll a left-right mixup at worst, right, including Skullgirls?

PandaGirlBingo said:
People were talking about tech chases in Skullgirls and I just wanna say that I wish it was a bigger part of this game , cause stuff like this in LB2 are really fun.

I have tech chase setups with Double and Filia. The double one I lifted from Mao(End a combo in c.HK xx Flesh step, guess the direction they'll tech) then optimised to have the dash OS into both directions after their tech, and react to the direction they teched to jump backwards if they teched towards you, or neutral jump if they teched away from you. Against Filia, you could then pick left with j.LP and right with j.MP or something like that.

With Filia, do the first half of her bnb(s.HP j.HP adf j.LK j.HK, c.LK s.HP) then do IAD j.LK j.HK, then spam wavedash when you land. You will tech chase both directions then be able to do IAD j.LK for same side, IAD j.HK for crossup or whatever you like.

The only reason people don't do these is because people aren't good enough at defending against other resets yet, or other resets are either equal to or objectively better than tech chasing because of their more guaranteed nature with the majority of the cast. Filia can tech chase better than everyone in the game due to wavedash OSing the tech chase. Also, it's harder for characters that aren't named Filia to set up both a soft knockdown and a good way to react to a tech/punish a non-tech.
 
ClarenceMage said:
...???

You do know that in most 2D fighters that let you tech roll you can block after, which makes the ending of your tech roll a left-right mixup at worst, right, including Skullgirls?

Golly gee willickers, @ClarenceMage. I NEVER KNEW THAT =O

If we were to move more towards a tech-chase game in SG, it would go from what it is now to Smash Bros. style. Duh.

That's why I said what I said.

Do I need to explain the Smash Bros style tech chase game?
 
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worldjem said:
If we were to move more towards a tech-chase game in SG, it would go from what it is now to Smash Bros. style. Duh.

That's why I said what I said.

Do I need to explain the Smash Bros style tech chase game?

Look up the term "False dichotomy".

There are more games that have tech chasing than Smash and Skullgirls. You could pick any number of them to draw inspiration from to mechanically change SG's tech chase game if you were so inclined. The major reason why I think tech chasing isn't a big part of the game, is as I mentioned in the post you quoted, because resets function in the same niche but resets are more guaranteed than a tech chase.

Play some more fighting games and educate yourself before typing sarcastically in big capitals.
 
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First you say that most FGs use the same kind of tech chase system like SG has.

Then you say there's plenty of FGs with noteably different tech chase systems to draw inspiration from.

Make up your mind?

If there's another non-Smash fighting game that doesn't use:
ClarenceMage said:
in most 2D fighters that let you tech roll you can block after, which makes the ending of your tech roll a left-right mixup at worst
Then please enlighten us.

Oh wait, I just remembered that BB ground techs are vulnerable if you do left/right, but then that just makes them Smash Bros style.

So, yeah, I'm not seeing that much variance other than "can block" or "can't block", or "has vulnerability" or "is invulnerable."
 
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worldjem said:
First you say that most FGs use the same kind of tech chase system like SG has.

Read what I write and respond to what I write, not what you think I write. I said that in most 2D fighters you can block after tech rolling, which is similar to Skullgirls. Smash, 2D, and 3D are the major branches of fighting games and all have different implementations of tech rolling, all of which inspiration can be taken from.

There are more aspects to tech roll game and okizeme than "tech roll, not tech roll, can block or not"", and there are lots of ways Skullgirls' tech chase game could be altered. I'll list a few games that do tech chase game differently. Also, I will consider air tech as okizeme/tech chase game since it is effectively another method of setting the same kind of situation up.

Guilty Gear: Every knockdown is a hard knockdown, air tech chase exists. This makes oki strong and air resets not as reliable strong but still possible. In Skullgirls, it is the opposite - no air tech chase exists allowing for guaranteed setups, but hard knockdowns are rare. Clearly a decision has been made to prioritise one over the other in both games, and I personally like the air resets in Skullgirls.

They are both fun and unique. The problem is that they make tech chase redundant as a mixup option, but tech chase is there if you want a large chunk of damage to result in a knockdown+lower your opponents undizzy if they tech+get a mixup of some sort after, but risking the fact they could escape your mixup.


Third Strike: No air tech, you just get air reset with no air actions and being parry and get hit. Ground tech = stay on the ground or tech backwards. Mostly affects meaty timings and sometimes cross-through setups. I am unaware of any other properties stay down/quick getup have. Someone please educate me if I am missing something.

King of Fighters: Air resets cause you to not get hit on the way down and lose throw invulnerability when you land(as far as I know). Knockdowns can either be hard or soft. Soft knockdowns let you tech roll backwards, but tech rolling backwards has you give up your throw invulnerability on wakeup. This interacts with the game's throw invulnerability after wakeup or leaving blockstun mechanic by giving you a choice in what you want to deal with.

Skullgirls is unlikely to gain any sort of throw invulnerability mechanic because throws already start up slower than jabs. The common thing between 3S and KoF is that you can only tech backwards, which in SG would basically make tech rolling meaningless since it would just corner you and no-one wants that shit.


Virtua Fighter: Depending on the kind of knockdown you are put into, either a knockdown from an attack or being put into a grounded state through a throw, you have different options. Knockdown = Press 3 buttons as you land to instantly tech into foreground or background. You can choose to not tech to be put into grounded state. Get put into grounded state, you can choose to neutral getup, back, foreground, background get up roll. You can do an invincible on startup getup kick after every single grounded state tech option that isn't neutral get up, which can get beat out by moves that do more damage that trade with it (universal game rule).

Virtua Fighter's method has extra dimensions due to the 3D nature of the game but it's a bit of a red herring. The important part is that you have multiple states you can tech from which give multiple options (Tech as you hit the ground from a move that doesn't put you directly into grounded state, or wait until you are in grounded state) from multiple states, as well as a character-specific invulnerable getup move that is able to trade and therefore can be beaten by higher-damage trade setups. In older Virtua Fighter games, this invul getup attack was punishable on block but in FS it just puts you into a 50/50 situation. Only one other 2D fighter I know of has invulnerable get-up attacks for characters, and that was Waku Waku 7.

Invincible getup attacks might be something to consider, but is unlikely due to the fact that characters already have invulnerable moves that work like getup attacks and also tend to be heavily punishable on block without meter expenditure.

Being put into a grounded state for longer before you can tech roll might be something Skullgirls could implement, since you can tech on both blue bounces of a blue knockdown. You could make it so that if you tech on the first bounce, you get an instant left-right tech. But if you wit for the second bounce, you can't instantly tech from that. Instead, you are in invulnerable knockdown and have ~15 frames within that knockdown state to chose neutral, forward, or back roll. This would be an interesting experiment to do, actually.

TL;DR

My actual VF-inspired hypothetical suggestion for altered SG knockdown is:

For the second knockdown in blue bounces, make it so that you have to wait 10 frames or so in an invul knockdown state before choosing to neutral, forward, or back tech. This would make knockdown/tech chase game stronger for more characters while retaining the victim's ability to quickly gtfo on the first bounce.

Edit: Also more moves could put you directly into the second blue groundbounce state to facilitate that kind of tech chase, like sweeps.
 
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I forgot about getup attacks (which also happen to be in smash bros. Derp) and didn't consider 3D games because I generally don't like them.
I also didn't consider air tech because the games that have actual air techs like BB/GG are invulnerable or too difficult to techchase to the point where it's not really part of the metagame, and those that don't force you to fall in a set place, negating the need to "chase".

VF sounds pretty much like Smash Bros and reminds me of Soul Calibur 2.

I know some games let you tech only certain directions or not at all, but when "tech chase" was mentioned the first thing I thought was how Smash Bros lets you keep hitting the opponent when they tech.

Having that kind of thing where any tech option can get you combo'd is something I don't want in SG (and I even think it shouldn't be in Smash Bros to the extent it is).

That's all I meant with my comment and I don't know why it gave you the impression I didn't understand how SG's ground tech system works.
 
worldjem said:
I also didn't consider air tech because the games that have actual air techs like BB/GG are invulnerable or too difficult to techchase to the point where it's not really part of the metagame, and those that don't force you to fall in a set place, negating the need to "chase".

Air techs in GG/BB are invul on startup, but once you exit them you are able to get hit. Air tech resets are definitely a thing, the other day ate an I-No air tech reset into her air command grab in Xrd. Off of bnbs that end in air tech, a common thing is to attempt to make them land into a projectile for pressure, like what Ky does. I frequently reset people that mash tech by OTGing them to let them air tech into an air unblockable move, and they forget to FD in the air because they are bad so they die more.

worldjem said:
That's all I meant with my comment and I don't know why it gave you the impression I didn't understand how SG's ground tech system works.

My impression wasn't that you didn't understand how SG's ground tech system works, but that your experience with fighting games was extremely limited if the only thing you thought of when you heard "Make tech chase better" was "It must be made more like exactly this one game and I don't like how this one game does it so don't make tech chase better."
 
ClarenceMage said:
My impression wasn't that you didn't understand how SG's ground tech system works, but that your experience with fighting games was extremely limited if the only thing you thought of when you heard "Make tech chase better" was "It must be made more like exactly this one game and I don't like how this one game does it so don't make tech chase better."

Don't retcon this by quoting my posts after the first one.

You could have said "Well, it doesn't necessarily have to be Smash Bros techs to be different because you could change X, Y, Z..." instead of being an idiot and a jerk.

I didn't come in here pretending to know everything about every game's tech system. All I said was I don't want Skullgirls techs to be like Smash Bros. techs.

Asking me "You do know how SG techs work, right?" after I just said "I don't want SG techs to be like Smash Bros techs" is asinine because my comment implies I already know.

Now, can we please get back to talking about the beta?
 
worldjem said:
Don't retcon this by quoting my posts after the first one.

??? I haven't retconned anything?

worldjem said:
Asking me "You do know how SG techs work, right?"

I didn't ask that. Please read my posts before replying to me. I have already said I haven't called into question your SG tech chase knowledge AT ALL, and if you carefully read my first reply, I specifically called into question your knowledge of OTHER 2D FIGHTERS, NOT SKULLGIRLS. Please fucking READ because I don't want to repeat myself.

worldjem said:
I didn't come in here pretending to know everything about every game's tech system. All I said was I don't want Skullgirls techs to be like Smash Bros. techs.

Good thing no-one suggested anything of the sort, hey?

worldjem said:
You could have said

We both 'could have' said many things. You could for instance could not have jumped the gun and said you didn't want tech chases to become like Smash(Which no-one was suggesting). You could've put in research into how tech chasing works in other fighting games and given useful feedback. You could have, at any point read any of my posts correctly and we could have ended this discussion several posts earlier.

worldjem said:
Now, can we please get back to talking about the beta?

I like the buff to alpha counter.

Beowulf's command grab having the same startup animation as his beast cannon is inconsequential for any sort of mixup since both are defended against on reaction by upbacking, so it's a bit meh to me. If he could feint his command grab that would be another story, but at a point long enough into the animation that he wouldn't become all about canceling into command grab feint as pressure if it was possible.

Beowulf taking 50 damage per blocked hit when chairless, while it is less than taking 100 damage per blocked hit from originally intended, is still extremely punishing. Being able to get a guaranteed 4k damage on beowulf as parasoul with her Level 3, for instance, is a bit extreme since each hit does 40 chip damage, and +50 = 90 per hit. Her shots do 120 damage if they hit! It might better if it was a smaller flat damage addition on moves that don't do chip damage and a 50% percentage increase on moves that already do chip damage ontop of the flat damage.
 
Dime_x said:
I dont want air techs in sg nor do i want buffed okizeme play. I like my sg how it is currently tyvm.

Yeah same here *cough* revert beta peacock changes AHEM
 
@Dime_x wins the award for most sensible post on the page. congrats man! (being 100% serious)
 
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Do we even have confirmation that MikeZ's gonna show new updates? This isn't a regular Salty/RU and last I heard Mike isn't even at UGC.
 
Mike_Z said:
A bunch of us are visiting Bang Camaro and render drove, so I have no idea when we'll actually be there.
But I guarantee you want to wait for this version to have the tournament hahahahahahah.
I also guarantee that if you do that you want it to be free hahahahahahah.

from the thread that says december 20th salty in the events section.
 
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Okay, it looks like Mike's playing Vsav over there so it looks like they're good. I don't know what I like more: that the next update promises to be hype, or that the gang took the time to visit Camaro.

Edit: obviously the later but still
 
he just was on stream saying the updates will not be streamed this week...but they will happen.

:\
 
Thanks UGC
chansub-global-emoticon-3d9b59b17687288c-33x30.png
 
And now SG is gonna be shown after VSav winners finals.
 
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